758 réponses à ce sujet

[AnAccountWithNoName]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
History has shown that we don't have to kill all the members of an enemy faction to win.  There have been plenty of times in the past in war, in which an enemy has been defeated for good, but not every member of the destroyed faction was killed.

Yea execpt the Geth have no history in war they are also were young at the time. So they would not know that.

They could access the quarian Scroll of Ancestors and comprehend them well enough to wonder about these "soul" dealies, so they could certainly read a history book or two.

History has also shown you if you don't finish a threat completely it can be came back. Which the Qaurians did do. The Qaurians wanted to wipe all the Geth why shouldn't the Geth be able to do the same?

Because unlike the Geth at the time, the Quarians are very diverse, there are differences of religion, age, sex, status, political affliction, evil and good Quarians, etc.  Like humanity.  Not every member of the Quarian species was out for Geth "blood".  You can't judge all the Quarians in deserving death because of the actions of the higher ups in their government.


And do you really think genoicde is right, depending on the situation?  And you wonder why i said earlier that men like you make this world a sacry place.  I sure hope you never become a general in a possible future war.

Modifié par AnAccountWithNoName, 13 août 2011 - 10:38 .

[Rockworm503]

EJ107 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

The geth are machines, they probably calculated that the most efficient way to defeat the quarians was to kill every last one of them, since that's what the quarians were trying to do to them. The Allies during the Second World War killed millions of German and Japanese civilians with bombing, completely breaking their will to fight and forcing them to surrender. That worked for the geth, the quarians lost so much that they were eventually forced to abandon their own civilization, securing survival for the geth. That's war, no morality just survival.

What does it say about the Geth if they're willing to do things like that? At least the allies in real life tried to avoid killing civilians. 

People try to use "they're machines" to justify what the Geth have done, but all that proves is that they are dangerous, don't value life, and would readily slaughter the entire galaxy without hesitation if they thought it was logical. That makes them no better than the Reapers. 

LOL they used logic BACK THEN.
PAST TENSE.
Again I question wether people want to ignore Legion like he never happened.
Of course their dangerous they wouldn't have survived if they weren't.
Turians have shown their dangerious.
Krogan
Salarains.
Why is it that "they're machines" make them instantly evil?

[xXljoshlXx]

EJ107 wrote...

What does it say about the Geth if they're willing to do things like that? At least the allies in real life tried to avoid killing civilians. 

What does it say about the Qaurians if they are willing to revert a enitre species to pre-sentience or destory the species completely. Did the Qaurians deem which Geth were innocent or not?

EJ107 wrote...
People try to use "they're machines" to justify what the Geth have done, but all that proves is that they are dangerous, don't value life, and would readily slaughter the entire galaxy without hesitation if they thought it was logical.

Legion says they believe every species should self-determinate that shows worth.

EJ107 wrote...
That makes them no better than the Reapers. 

That can be said for all of the races.

Rockworm503 wrote...
Why is it that "they're machines" make them instantly evil?

Because they are different

Modifié par xXljoshlXx, 13 août 2011 - 10:45 .

[Mr_DeMille]

If the geth really wanted to finnish the threat of the quarians they would not stay behind the Veil and let them get away.

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

In any case, the "soul" question clearly indicates that contrary to what Tali said in ME1, the Geth had become self-aware prior the war, and the Quarians had all the reason to be sure of that, when they decided to pull the plug.

This is a popular assertion, but it's not based on anything but assumption. How do you know it's a question that only a sapient system could ask?  Why shouldn't it have been taken as a sign of being close to "waking up" instead?  I.e., that the asking of such questions indicated that a necessary but not sufficient condition of sapience had been met.  You can argue that they should have investigated more (and for all we know, maybe they did.  We've only gotten the Reader's Digest Hypercondensed Edition of the Morning War), but you can't just say that that alone was enough without backing it up.

OK, you're right. It's impossible to tell with absolute certainty who knew what and who could what centuries ago, judging by a few lines of dialogue in the game. (But that goes to those who say "Oh, the Quarians didn't realize the Geth were already!" too.) And anyway I'd be the last to argue that the Quarians should not have even considered pulling the plug, if we did know for sure the Quarians realized that the Geth had achieved sentience. The fact remains, however, that they either failed to anticipate the geth's capabilities and retaliatory behavior, or refused to accept the situation. Which makes them victims of their own damn fault and not of their machinery. I guess, the Quarians didn't read history books either, as it appears the idea that orderly emancipation usually prevents bloodshed is totally alien to them.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 13 août 2011 - 11:26 .

[Ianamus]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

What does it say about the Geth if they're willing to do things like that? At least the allies in real life tried to avoid killing civilians. 

What does it say about the Qaurians if they are willing to revert a enitre species to pre-sentience or destory the species completely. Did the Qaurians deem which Geth were innocent or not?

Only a few Quarians made the decision to destroy the Geth, but the Geth must have had consensus on committing genocide on the Quarians, and that's forgetting that all of the Quarians who chose to do that died along time ago.

The Geth who make up Legion are the same ones who chose to kill Quarian children, while the majority of present-day Quarians have never even seen a Geth. 

[JGDD]

EJ107 wrote...

At least the allies in real life tried to avoid killing civilians.

Better read up on WWII and the 'bombs'. That was a decisive action specifically targeted at civilian populations to break the Japanese mentality that every man, woman, and child would fight to the death. It worked.

[xXljoshlXx]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
And do you really think genoicde is right, depending on the situation?  And you wonder why i said earlier that men like you make this world a sacry place.  I sure hope you never become a general in a possible future war.

How do you plan on getting rid of the reapers genocide is what they plan to do and it is what i plan to do to them once a tactic used be one side it is open to the other side.

"Principle is OK up to a certain point, but principle doesn't do any good if you lose." -Dick Cheney 

Your willingly to lose the reapers if genocide is the only way of winning?

[Rockworm503]

"their no better than the reapers"
Suddenly it occurs to me that thats a good thing on the Geth's part... Maybe we need that cold logic to find a way to defeat the Reapers.

[Agamo45]

EJ107 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

The geth are machines, they probably calculated that the most efficient way to defeat the quarians was to kill every last one of them, since that's what the quarians were trying to do to them. The Allies during the Second World War killed millions of German and Japanese civilians with bombing, completely breaking their will to fight and forcing them to surrender. That worked for the geth, the quarians lost so much that they were eventually forced to abandon their own civilization, securing survival for the geth. That's war, no morality just survival.

What does it say about the Geth if they're willing to do things like that? At least the allies in real life tried to avoid killing civilians. 

People try to use "they're machines" to justify what the Geth have done, but all that proves is that they are dangerous, don't value life, and would readily slaughter the entire galaxy without hesitation if they thought it was logical. That makes them no better than the Reapers. 

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

Just replace the word "French" with Quarian, and "Spanish" with Geth. and you have the belief of those who think the Quarians got what they deserved.  It's a pretty stupid belief.

Exactly. Putting it in real life terms really shows what a stupid belief it is. 

The geth were fighting for their very survival, you can't expect them to hold anything back. Again, this is war. You can't attach morality to it because there is no morality.

[xXljoshlXx]

EJ107 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...
What does it say about the Qaurians if they are willing to revert a enitre species to pre-sentience or destory the species completely. Did the Qaurians deem which Geth were innocent or not?

Only a few Quarians made the decision to destroy the Geth, but the Geth must have had consensus on committing genocide on the Quarians, and that's forgetting that all of the Quarians who chose to do that died along time ago.

The Geth who make up Legion are the same ones who chose to kill Quarian children, while the majority of present-day Quarians have never even seen a Geth. 

It seemed more than a few Qaurians made the decison to destroy the geth. Consessus doesn't mean there  were no dissenters.

[Gust4v]

didymos1120 wrote...

Possible threat?  Dude, so are the quarians.  Everyone is a possible threat.  Or haven't you noticed that every single species has a history of warfare.  Hell, your fellow humans are a possible threat.  It ain't like civil wars are a rare occurence in history.

Yeah, that's obvious. I was thinking of the Dyson Sphere. Not even the geth know what will happen after that.

Rogue Unit wrote...
Of course it's easy if you ignore all the facts regarding the Geth/Quarians.

And
anything and everyone has the potiential to become a threat in the
future. As it is now, the Batarians pose more of a threat to galactic
stability than the Geth.

Trust me, I'm not ignoring the facts.

[Ianamus]

Agamo45 wrote...

The geth were fighting for their very survival, you can't expect them to hold anything back. Again, this is war. You can't attach morality to it because there is no morality.

They also killed all of the peaceful diplomats the council sent into Geth space. They weren't fighting for survival then.

Modifié par EJ107, 13 août 2011 - 11:04 .

[xXljoshlXx]

EJ107 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...
The geth were fighting for their very survival, you can't expect them to hold anything back. Again, this is war. You can't attach morality to it because there is no morality.

They also killed all of the peace diplomats the council sent into Geth space. They weren't fighting for survival then.

The Qaurians attacked One hunderd percent of the time when victory was possible. 

[Ianamus]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...
The geth were fighting for their very survival, you can't expect them to hold anything back. Again, this is war. You can't attach morality to it because there is no morality.

They also killed all of the peace diplomats the council sent into Geth space. They weren't fighting for survival then.

The Qaurians attacked One hunderd percent of the time when victory was possible. 

When Legion says that piece of dialogue the Quarians have already let him on the fleet when they could easily have killed him, so that statistic is wrong. 

Modifié par EJ107, 13 août 2011 - 11:09 .

[xXljoshlXx]

EJ107 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

The Qaurians attacked One hunderd percent of the time when victory was possible. 

When Legion says that piece of dialogue the Quarians have already let him on the fleet when they could easily have killed him, so that statistic is wrong. 

Commander sherpard was with legion victory wasn't possible

[Ianamus]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

The Qaurians attacked One hunderd percent of the time when victory was possible. 

When Legion says that piece of dialogue the Quarians have already let him on the fleet when they could easily have killed him, so that statistic is wrong. 

Commander sherpard was with legion victory wasn't possible

Yeah, I'm sure that Shepard could take on the entire Migrant fleet <_< 

In all seriousness though, I never understood that statistic. Like I said abouve, it just dosen't make sense. 

[xXljoshlXx]

EJ107 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...
Commander sherpard was with legion victory wasn't possible

EJ107 wrote...
Yeah, I'm sure that Shepard could take on the entire Migrant fleet <_< 

The only race that evend stands a slim chance of beating Shepard is the Reapers with the aid of Niftu Cal

EJ107 wrote...
In all seriousness though, I never understood that statistic. Like I said above, it just dosen't make sense. 

It doesn't now but I'm sure he meant all previous meetings that weren't intercepted by a median(Shepard)
Tali shoots legion on her recruitment if you don't stop her

Modifié par xXljoshlXx, 13 août 2011 - 11:21 .

[legion999]

EJ107 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

The Qaurians attacked One hunderd percent of the time when victory was possible. 

When Legion says that piece of dialogue the Quarians have already let him on the fleet when they could easily have killed him, so that statistic is wrong. 

Commander sherpard was with legion victory wasn't possible

Yeah, I'm sure that Shepard could take on the entire Migrant fleet <_< 

In all seriousness though, I never understood that statistic. Like I said abouve, it just dosen't make sense. 

Was it not somewhere around 90%?

Modifié par legion999, 13 août 2011 - 11:20 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

If I couldn't make peace than I'd side with the Geth in a moment. The Geth have been the least violent specie in all of Mass Effect. For 300 after the war they've killed no one and threatened no one. No other specie can make that claim. They're also the only specie that has been evolving without using Reaper technology something that will prove both vital when fighting the Reapers and is also something that I admire. They are independant they don't require anything from anyone they've accomplished everything on their own.

The Quarians on the other hand are a forever whining specie that spends its time stewing in their hate and complaining about how utterly unfair their lives have been instead of taking a page from the Geth and trying to better themselves they've spent 300 years happy to stay in their rotting ships.

The Geth can contribue amazing things to the galaxy if they were to open themselves up.... the Quarians can teach us... how to make your broken down ships last longer?

The Geth are better than the Quarians in every way.

[xXljoshlXx]

legion999 wrote...
Was it not somewhere around 90%?

Hmmm you might be right 

[xXljoshlXx]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

If I couldn't make peace than I'd side with the Geth in a moment. The Geth have been the least violent specie in all of Mass Effect. For 300 after the war they've killed no one and threatened no one. No other specie can make that claim. 

The Geth are better than the Quarians in every way.

Im a huge Geth supporter but they aren't better in every way.

Also Asari and Salarians might be able to make the same claim maybe even longer Council Era formation
Another thing the Volus Elcor and Hanar can be easily considered less violent than the Geth. The geth seem to be on Average

jreezy wrote...
You must not have played Mass Effect 1 or 2. Geth the least violent species? Hardly. Accomplished everything on their own? Not really.

I can see where he came to that conclusion out of all the races they seem to be most independant the humans a close second but like they both were handed tech to them so they didn't accomplish everything.

Modifié par xXljoshlXx, 13 août 2011 - 11:36 .

[Ianamus]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

legion999 wrote...
Was it not somewhere around 90%?

Hmmm you might be right 

skip to 3:15, he says 100%

I think it was just a slip up on the writers part. 90% or so would have made sense. 

Modifié par EJ107, 13 août 2011 - 11:38 .

[Champion_of_Tzeentch]

I would side with the Quarians.

For all we know the Geth as a machine race could be more susceptible to the Reaper's influence.
I also think AI should be banned outright in citadel space (not sure what the laws are here, only that further research is prohibited) and existing AI should be eradicated. If the AI could ever be equivalent to biological intelligence (which in theory is possible) then any arguments against it become almost void, but as far as we know this isn't the case yet. And by equivalent I don't mean things like IQ but the individual capacity for feelings etc.

Modifié par Champion_of_Tzeentch, 13 août 2011 - 11:44 .