758 réponses à ce sujet

[xXljoshlXx]

Someone With Mass wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...
I knew someone would be my spellchecker for me.
They are both illegal but one of them isn't banned. The Qaurians could have fought(I don't mean violence fight)  for Geth rights earning their trust. They might have succeded making all AI legal but they didn't so we will just have to forget about it. The Qaurians broke the law either way so they were gonna get screwed either way but if they fought against the law instead of agreeing with it.

Which they didn't. Because that would have been a lost cause before it even started.

And AI research didn't become legal until a long time after that event.

Also, they would've lost their place on the Council embassy if they had developed the geth even further, which would've been a pretty devastating blow to their economy and relations with other races.

Do they still have that embassy?
Once again genetic enigneering is illegal but was the humans punishment for bringing something so beneficial and useful. If they qaurians argued they could be helpful and beneficial they might not have lost their home planet might not be hated by the other races. But the Qaurians did not do this.

[Ianamus]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

The Geth sound innocent to me 
free from moral wrong; without sin; pure

People who have no moral issues with killing others are called sociopaths. And they're anything but pure. 

I agree completely with Saphra, you people are sick.

1.Not all sociopaths are murderers
2. Read the definition 

I said that people who have no moral issues with killing others are sociopaths, not that sociopaths are people who have no moral issues with killing others.

Theres a difference.

[legion999]

EJ107 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

The Geth sound innocent to me 
free from moral wrong; without sin; pure

People who have no moral issues with killing others are called sociopaths. And they're anything but pure. 

I agree completely with Saphra, you people are sick.

What do you mean by you people? Do you mean those who support the Geth or those who don't mind the death's of billions?

The ones who say that war justifies killing children. 

Meh collateral damage does happpen though.

[medcsu]

I feel pretty safe to say, on a side note from all this ruckus, that the Geth will be a far greater ally against the Reapers. They have a tremendously powerful fleet, can think on the fly, are organized and can mass produce to desired effect.

The Quarians really do not offer much. The Migrant Fleet, while massive, is pretty ragtag (kind of like a gypsy camp) and they are probably horrendously bad shock troops (if someone farts they get an infection and die).

I'm next to positive there will be a way to make both semi happy, but from a military standpoint it isn't even close who the more powerful ally would be.

[xXljoshlXx]

EJ107 wrote...
The ones who say that war justifies killing children. 

Who has done that?
The Geth have children so they wouldn't see it as bad as we would because they do not know what it is like 
 You know what else is sick people who justify genocide sentient beings because they are different

[legion999]

medcsu wrote...

I feel pretty safe to say, on a side note from all this ruckus, that the Geth will be a far greater ally against the Reapers. They have a tremendously powerful fleet, can think on the fly, are organized and can mass produce to desired effect.

The Quarians really do not offer much. The Migrant Fleet, while massive, is pretty ragtag (kind of like a gypsy camp) and they are probably horrendously bad shock troops (if someone farts they get an infection and die).

I'm next to positive there will be a way to make both semi happy, but from a military standpoint it isn't even close who the more powerful ally would be.

Not only that but Quarian troops in general seem quite inept.

[featuringdark54]

Geth. i understand the quarian's reason, but they are the aggressors. the geth just existed.

[xXljoshlXx]

EJ107 wrote...
I said that people who have no moral issues with killing others are sociopaths, not that sociopaths are people who have no moral issues with killing others.
Theres a difference.

Yeah but my point still stand unless you can prove that the geth were not the definiton above before the war

[SandTrout]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Which they didn't. Because that would have been a lost cause before it even started.

And AI research didn't become legal until a long time after that event.

Also, they would've lost their place on the Council embassy if they had developed the geth even further, which would've been a pretty devastating blow to their economy and relations with other races.

Do they still have that embassy?
Once again genetic enigneering is illegal but was the humans punishment for bringing something so beneficial and useful. If they qaurians argued they could be helpful and beneficial they might not have lost their home planet might not be hated by the other races. But the Qaurians did not do this.

20/20 hindsight. They were attempting to stay within Council treaties and conventions as best as they could.

The fact that they still lost their embassy is just an illustration of how messed up the current Citadel Council is. They watched without intervening as 99% of a member species was massacred for the crime of attempting to keep within Citadel regulation, then ran the Quarians off whenever they attempted to settle a planet for the next 300 years.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

EJ107 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

@EJ The Allies started killing the Germans and Japanese and kept killing them until the survivors surrendered, which is what the geth did.

What are you on about? The Geth kept killing the Quarians unti they were all dead, not until they surrendered. The only reason 1% survived is because they outran them; if they hadn't then they would have been killed as well. 

Actually it was worse, i think it was less then even 1%.  So the Geth killed a little bit more then 99% of all Quarians.

[Someone With Mass]

xXljoshlXx wrote...
Do they still have that embassy?
Once again genetic enigneering is illegal but was the humans punishment for bringing something so beneficial and useful. If they qaurians argued they could be helpful and beneficial they might not have lost their home planet might not be hated by the other races. But the Qaurians did not do this.

http://masseffect.wi...iki/Morning_War

You do the reading.

And please tell me what benefits the Council and the quarians would've gained from further developing the geth.

I think there's a very good reason why the creation of an artificial intelligence was highly illegal even back then.

Like... the thing that happened to the quarians.

AIs and their machines aren't predictable. They won't follow laws if they don't like it. They more than likely don't have any moral standards like organics do.

Or, in worst case, the AIs will see themselves as gods, above organic life and start experimenting on the organics to create something they can call their "children". Am I ringing any bells yet?

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 14 août 2011 - 01:16 .

[xXljoshlXx]

SandTrout wrote...
 20/20 hindsight. They were attempting to stay within Council treaties and conventions as best as they could.

The fact that they still lost their embassy is just an illustration of how messed up the current Citadel Council is. They watched without intervening as 99% of a member species was massacred for the crime of attempting to keep within Citadel regulation, then ran the Quarians off whenever they attempted to settle a planet for the next 300 years.

I won't deny the council is messed you have showed me that before and I'll stop arguing the Qaurians could have helped the Geth if they thought about it because it is Hindsight.

[Ianamus]

Modifié par EJ107, 14 août 2011 - 01:19 .

[AnAccountWithNoName]

legion999 wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

The Geth sound innocent to me 
free from moral wrong; without sin; pure

People who have no moral issues with killing others are called sociopaths. And they're anything but pure. 

I agree completely with Saphra, you people are sick.

What do you mean by you people? Do you mean those who support the Geth or those who don't mind the death's of billions?

The ones who say that war justifies killing children. 

Meh collateral damage does happpen though.

Um not collateral damage.

Collateral damage is Unintended damage, injuries, or deaths caused by an action, especially
unintended civilian casualties caused by a military operation.

Now if Quarian civilians, including children were being killed in Geth attacks directed at the Quarian military, then yes it would be collateral damage.  But there came a time in the war in which the Quarian military had been defeated and the Geth intentionlly began to kill civilians, even though the military was gone (if the Quarians had a strong military, they would have had more then less then 1% surviving), then it ceases to become collateral damage.

[Ianamus]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
The ones who say that war justifies killing children. 

Who has done that?

Agamo45 wrote...

The geth were fighting for their very survival, you can't expect them to hold
anything back. Again, this is war. You can't attach morality to it because
there is no morality.

 

Agamo45 wrote...

In total warfare, civilians become military targets. You talk about boundaries,
but the quarians eliminated all boundaries when they decided to exterminate the
geth.

 

xXljoshlXx wrote...

if you use a tactic it is free for the other side to use it. The Qaurians
attacked a whole species of innocents.

Clonedzero wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

Like the Geth in the morning war?
And all those children Quarians 

gotta break some eggs to make an omelet 

What the hell did you think these were implying? If you don't understand the implications of what your saying then don't say those things in the first place.

Saphra Deden wrote...

You're sick.

Modifié par EJ107, 14 août 2011 - 01:30 .

[xXljoshlXx]

[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...

http://masseffect.wi...iki/Morning_War

You do the reading.
[/quote]
So you agree with me the Geth did nothing wrong other than existing?

[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...
And please tell me what benefits the Council and the quarians would've gained from further developing the geth.
I think there's a very good reason why the creation of an artificial intelligence was highly illegal even back then.
[/quote]
Thermal clips came from Geth tech

[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...
Like... the thing that happened to the quarians.
[/quote]
That was the Qaurians for attacking wihtout looking for peaceful outcomes. Organics are just as dangerous as AIs
[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...

AIs and their machines aren't predictable. They won't follow laws if they don't like it. They more than likely don't have any moral standards like organics do.[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHA are you serious with this your other points were pretty good any race will not follow a law they don't agree with(batarians against slavery). Organics are the unpreditcable ones AI use logic.

Or, in worst case, the AIs will see themselves as gods, above organic life and start experimenting on the organics to create something the can call their "children". Am I ringing any bells yet?
[/quote]
Arent the Reapers Organic and Artificial?(not sure so I am asking)
Best Case the geth actually help us further our species

Modifié par xXljoshlXx, 14 août 2011 - 01:21 .

[SandTrout]

Thermal clips came from Geth tech

Hardly a compelling advancement in technology, sorry. That's like saying that communism in Russia was justified by the development of the AK-47.

[xXljoshlXx]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
Actually it was worse, i think it was less then even 1%.  So the Geth killed a little bit more then 99% of all Quarians.

The Qaurians wanted 100% 
@EJ107 Sorry but the Qaurians shouldn't have attacked an innocent race of sentient and The Geth shouldn't have killed innocent children but they both did wrong the Qaurians did more wrong in my eyes so i side with the Geth for the stratergic advantage and I believe the Qaurians at fault. 

[Someone With Mass]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

Thermal clips came from Geth tech

Guess why they developed them.

Because they were fighting organics.

And until you can understand the potential dangers of artificial intelligence, which most people in Mass Effect want to avoid for obvious reasons, since it more than likely won't be cotton candy and carnivals (keep telling yourself that, though), because they have a good taste of reality, and the dangers outweighs the benefits by quite a lot, as proven by the Morning War, we have nothing to talk about.

[legion999]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

legion999 wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

The Geth sound innocent to me 
free from moral wrong; without sin; pure

People who have no moral issues with killing others are called sociopaths. And they're anything but pure. 

I agree completely with Saphra, you people are sick.

What do you mean by you people? Do you mean those who support the Geth or those who don't mind the death's of billions?

The ones who say that war justifies killing children. 

Meh collateral damage does happpen though.

Um not collateral damage.

Collateral damage is Unintended damage, injuries, or deaths caused by an action, especially
unintended civilian casualties caused by a military operation.

Now if Quarian civilians, including children were being killed in Geth attacks directed at the Quarian military, then yes it would be collateral damage.  But there came a time in the war in which the Quarian military had been defeated and the Geth intentionlly began to kill civilians, even though the military was gone (if the Quarians had a strong military, they would have had more then less then 1% surviving), then it ceases to become collateral damage.

I was unclear, I meant collateral damage is justifiable.

[xXljoshlXx]

SandTrout wrote...

Thermal clips came from Geth tech

Hardly a compelling advancement in technology, sorry. That's like saying that communism in Russia was justified by the development of the AK-47.

Sorry but compelling is an opinion. Every race uses them most weapons are outfitted with them now. The species must beleive it worthwhile to adopt a whole new system in two years but thats beside the point. An advancement is an advancement which the geth gave a better point is you could have argued that Nazara gave them that tech and it wasn't the Geths

[xXljoshlXx]

Someone With Mass wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

Thermal clips came from Geth tech

Guess why they developed them.

I'm using Thermal clips as example that geth can be helpful
Because they were fighting organics.

Someone With Mass wrote...
And until you can understand the potential dangers of artificial intelligence, which most people in Mass Effect want to avoid for obvious reasons, since it more than likely won't be cotton candy and carnivals (keep telling yourself that, though), because they have a good taste of reality,

You understand that the Geth aren't any more Dangerous than the other species and the geth can easily be reasoned they do use logic which is more than you can say for other species.

Someone With Mass wrote...
The dangers outweighs the benefits by quite a lot, 

This can be said for any species/person/ tool
The morning War shows the geth can be a very helpful ally 

Modifié par xXljoshlXx, 14 août 2011 - 01:43 .

[Runescapeguy9]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

The morning War shows the geth can be a very helpful ally 

No, the morning war shows the geth jump to conclusions and have no sort of restraint.

[CMDR Locke]

According the the Morning Wars entry on the Wiki, is can be assumed the Quarians had a very small if any military force that wasn't Geth when they decided to terminate.

So basically the Geth killed civilians is what I'm saying. They didn't take them prisoner, they didn't kill just enough and explain themselves. They murdered everyone.

[Warlocomotf]

You're right, AI is predictable because it follows logic.

Unfortunately if AI defends itself and fights back (And even intend to wipe the other species out), that is evidence of the fact that this AI finds it's own existence of higher value than that of others.

In addition, legion himself says it clearly, it is "in organics' programming" to fear AI. Even if you argue that this is not true; it is still true that the Geth believe it to be true.

Seeing as the geth strictly follow logic, it is ultimately clear that the Geth will attempt to kill all organics when the opportunity arises. Why? Because organics fear AI, conflict is inevitable. Logic dictates you strike at the most opportune time.

Currently, the Geth is siding with organics. Perhaps this is because they require organics- they can not deal with the reaper threat alone, this explanation certainly follows logic.

Logic also does not care much for morals, it does not care if what they say is true or false. They can very easily say they have no intent of fighting organics without it being true. It would certainly be beneficial to say this, especially if it is not true.

You understand that the Geth aren't any more Dangerous than the other species and the geth can easily be reasoned they do use logic which is more than you can say for other species.

That makes the Geth more dangerous if anything. Logic is cold; very cold. Logic does not care about ethics or morals- logic is why the Geth do not hesitate to kill children.

Modifié par Warlocomotf, 14 août 2011 - 01:51 .