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[xXljoshlXx]

Stupid worthless computer

Double Post

Modifié par xXljoshlXx, 14 août 2011 - 02:36 .

[xXljoshlXx]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Oh, so just because some military/politicians made a mistake, every single man, woman and child of the same race deserves to die? Just because their leaders tried to prevent their tools from becoming sentient? Especially when the tools in question weren't really sentient?

Please stop with the insults it only makes you look bad.
Ah but  before the war they became sentient so that must mean they had killed innocent sentient beings

CMDR Locke wrote...

I still 100% believe anyone taking the Geth side only does so because "lol Legion was cool." No sane human would ever choice a computer program/robot over a living breathing person.

Living breathing person?So i should side with someone not because they are right but because they have something in common? That sounds very racist.

EJ107 wrote...
Yes, I hadn't realised until I thought about it just how overlooked it's been.
The Quarian homeworld must have had a ton of other races there. Tourists, traders, aliens who decided to live there, we could be talking millions of people who weren't even Quarian being killed by the Geth! Maybe more!

Yeah Friendly fire does happen so i wouldn't be suprised if the Geth weren't the only ones who killed innocent bystander. Once again both did wrong.

[CMDR Locke]

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

why would legion lie?

The Geth use lies on Organis all the time.

Taken from Geth wiki here http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Geth

However, the geth are not above using deceit to study organic behavior. One example is the geth introducing a falsified report on the extranet detailing a constellation resembling a salarian goddess seen from the batarianhomeworld, which the salarians immediately believed to be proof of the goddess' existence. The experiment ended when a salarian cult bought rights to the stars, only to find that they did not exist.

yes. but i mean why would he lie to shepard? they have a common enemy.
he's not studying shepard, he's trying to get his help, big difference.

What if the Geth came to a consensus that the Heratics were right.  The only way for the Geth to "evolve" was to inhabit a Reaper Ship.  

The Build Legion's Platform.  Send it to retrieve his body to give to the Reapers in exchange for a Ship.  Shepard is not there, so it uses pieces of it's armor to repair itself.  Goes to a collector ship to speak with Harbringer.

Low and behold Shepard appears.

Mindless Husks "deactivate Legion's platform but he doesn't speed of ligth transfer out of there.

Shepard turns him back on.

A consensus is formed to destroy the heratics to "sell" the story.  You know since AI can't feel remorse or compassion or anything.

Everything you know is wrong!

[Costin_Razvan]

CMDR Locke wrote...

I still 100% believe anyone taking the Geth side only does so because "lol Legion was cool." No sane human would ever choice a computer program/robot over a living breathing person.

Oh yeah because surely no one would have a big problem with a race of people who decided to play God then tried to commit genocide on a sapient race just to cover their "mistale" in front of the Council and then when they lost decided to victimize themselves.

If the decision between the Geth and Quarians turn out to be deciding on who you commit genocide...then well my choice is set...provided I get more information that can show me the Geth can be trusted ( I will not trust an entire race just based on Legion ),

[CMDR Locke]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
Oh, so just because some military/politicians made a mistake, every single man, woman and child of the same race deserves to die? Just because their leaders tried to prevent their tools from becoming sentient? Especially when the tools in question weren't really sentient?

Please stop with the insults it only makes you look bad.
Ah but  before the war they became sentient so that must mean they had killed innocent sentient beings

CMDR Locke wrote...

I still 100% believe anyone taking the Geth side only does so because "lol Legion was cool." No sane human would ever choice a computer program/robot over a living breathing person.

Living breathing person?So i should side with someone not because they are right but because they have something in common? That sounds very racist.

EJ107 wrote...
Yes, I hadn't realised until I thought about it just how overlooked it's been.
The Quarian homeworld must have had a ton of other races there. Tourists, traders, aliens who decided to live there, we could be talking millions of people who weren't even Quarian being killed by the Geth! Maybe more!

Yeah Friendly fire does happen so i wouldn't be suprised if the Geth weren't the only ones who killed innocent bystander. Once again both did wrong.

It has yet to be proven that the Geth are indeed "someone."  If a Human pokes a grizzly with a stick and the grizzly goes ape**** and starts mauling an entire Yosamite Park full of tourist.  The Ranger's attempt to stop the Grizzly but only manage to wound it before the Grizzly kills them as well, and continues it's rampage killing millions of people.  Do you side with the Grizzly?

[Clonedzero]

again, ignore my point about during the morningwar the geth were basically children themselves. having just attained self-awareness and having to fight for their lives.

[Warlocomotf]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

The Qaurians had the intent to wipe out all Geth completely. Except they i don't value myself more if it is self defense but i see each other as eqauls for a opprtunity to fight back. The Qaurians are the ones who valued themselves more in the situation

You're right, organics value themselves more than others. There's nothing wrong with that in itself and it wasn't the point I was trying to make. There however is something wrong with valueing yourself beyond others if you have no morals and ethics, and would have absolutely no problem in exterminating other species.

A person is annoying me

Logic- i kill this man he will never annoy me again but in the process i might die or suffer an injury
Logic- i walk the other way. I may possibly see him again but it is unlikely
Logic- I try to talk it out with him

And you think that a robot would at this point use a random number generator to come up with an answer? No. AI would at this point calculate the probability of suffering personal physical injury, the probability of being annoyed by this person again, the probability of being able to talk the other out of being annoying.

Logic / AI would create a value assessment to each of the proposed solutions, and would then choose the most beneficial. Logic does not involve "if (rand(1,3) == 1){ murder(target); }"

If the other species thought it was moral to kill another species they would do it (Reapers)

The word to use here is necesary. We do not fight the reapers because we feel we have the moral highground, we fight them because it's necesary.

[xXljoshlXx]

Someone With Mass wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...
I still 100% believe anyone taking the Geth side only does so because "lol Legion was cool." No sane human would ever choice a computer program/robot over a living breathing person.

+1
It's really hard to believe it's because the geth were apparently "innocent", even though they were merely tools at the time.

I should side with someone who might be guilty because we have something? If I'm ever on a juror I will decide if he is innocent or guilty by the similarities we have and not by the evidence.
The fact that their tools shows they are innocent because have done no wrong and before the war they gained sentince so that means during the war Qaurians eradictate innocent sentient beings. The geth realized their plan and fought back. Just like every war there is Innocent people were killed by both sides.
.

Modifié par xXljoshlXx, 14 août 2011 - 02:44 .

[Clonedzero]

CMDR Locke wrote...

I still 100% believe anyone taking the Geth side only does so because "lol Legion was cool." No sane human would ever choice a computer program/robot over a living breathing person.

i still believe anyone taking the quarian side only does it because "lol tali is cute". no sane human would ever pick a guilty person over an innocent.

[CMDR Locke]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

I still 100% believe anyone taking the Geth side only does so because "lol Legion was cool." No sane human would ever choice a computer program/robot over a living breathing person.

Oh yeah because surely no one would have a big problem with a race of people who decided to play God then tried to commit genocide on a sapient race just to cover their "mistale" in front of the Council and then when they lost decided to victimize themselves.

If the decision between the Geth and Quarians turn out to be deciding on who you commit genocide...then well my choice is set...provided I get more information that can show me the Geth can be trusted ( I will not trust an entire race just based on Legion ),

They are not a RACE OF PEOPLE they are a COLLECTION OF NETWORKED PROGRAMS.  If they were a race of people then I would be defending them.  You know who is a race of people?  The Quarians.  You know who is not a race?  Or a people?  A Networked collection of programs that inhabit a synthetic body.

[Warlocomotf]

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

why would legion lie?

The Geth use lies on Organis all the time.

Taken from Geth wiki here http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Geth

However, the geth are not above using deceit to study organic behavior. One example is the geth introducing a falsified report on the extranet detailing a constellation resembling a salarian goddess seen from the batarianhomeworld, which the salarians immediately believed to be proof of the goddess' existence. The experiment ended when a salarian cult bought rights to the stars, only to find that they did not exist.

yes. but i mean why would he lie to shepard? they have a common enemy.
he's not studying shepard, he's trying to get his help, big difference.

Yes, he's trying to get Shepard's help.
Exactly how much help do you think they would have gotten if he'd said: "Oh after this? Yeah we intend to wipe you out"

That's why he would lie, because the truth might seriously hurt his chances of getting Shepard's help.

[CMDR Locke]

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

I still 100% believe anyone taking the Geth side only does so because "lol Legion was cool." No sane human would ever choice a computer program/robot over a living breathing person.

i still believe anyone taking the quarian side only does it because "lol tali is cute". no sane human would ever pick a guilty person over an innocent.

I'll bite.  What is Tali guilty of?  Paying for the actions of her for fathers some 300 years ago?  Not having a home?  Not being able to watch a sunset?  Having another "sentient" mind not allow her the same right they have/want?

I do not make my moral stand point based on "lol Tali is cute" I make it based on understanding the difference between a person and a collection of runtimes networked to simulate sentience.

[didymos1120]

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

I still 100% believe anyone taking the Geth side only does so because "lol Legion was cool." No sane human would ever choice a computer program/robot over a living breathing person.

i still believe anyone taking the quarian side only does it because "lol tali is cute". no sane human would ever pick a guilty person over an innocent.

Yay! Dueling strawmen!

[CMDR Locke]

didymos1120 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

I still 100% believe anyone taking the Geth side only does so because "lol Legion was cool." No sane human would ever choice a computer program/robot over a living breathing person.

i still believe anyone taking the quarian side only does it because "lol tali is cute". no sane human would ever pick a guilty person over an innocent.

Yay! Dueling strawmen!

My defense is not a strawman.  If Legion had never been activated no one would have chosen the Geth over Quarians.  But, the exclusion of Tali would still have garnered support for the Quarians.

[xXljoshlXx]

CMDR Locke wrote...

They are not a RACE OF PEOPLE they are a COLLECTION OF NETWORKED PROGRAMS.  If they were a race of people then I would be defending them.  You know who is a race of people?  The Quarians.  You know who is not a race?  Or a people?  A Networked collection of programs that inhabit a synthetic body.

So it matters how they gained sentience but not that they have it?
Then i should kill all other races because they didn't on evolve Earth like i did.

[Warlocomotf]

Clonedzero wrote...

again, ignore my point about during the morningwar the geth were basically children themselves. having just attained self-awareness and having to fight for their lives.

I don't think this is a very good reason. The Geth have memory of well before they became sentient, and were sentient years before the Quarians actually found out.

[Someone With Mass]

xXljoshlXx wrote...
Please stop with the insults it only makes you look bad.
Ah but  before the war they became sentient so that must mean they had killed innocent sentient beings

That's an insult? Wow.

Read up on how the geth works.

They can barely achieve sentience on their own now, and they were on the verge to achieve full sentience then, which the quarians didn't want.

Is EDI innocent too? You better believe that if she behaves in a way people aboard the ship don't like/can put them in danger/in a way she shouldn't be behaving because she wasn't programmed for it, they'd pull the plug without a second thought.

If my computer starts something that I didn't want or authorized, or begins to question its existence in some way, I'd format the hard drive.

[xXljoshlXx]

CMDR Locke wrote...

My defense is not a strawman.  If Legion had never been activated no one would have chosen the Geth over Quarians.  But, the exclusion of Tali would still have garnered support for the Quarians.

That is because the only non-hostile Geth we have met is Legion so of course we would attack if we had not met him because we all think the geth are the same as the heretics and no one would be able to prove otherwise.

[Ryzaki]

CMDR Locke wrote...
The Quarians didn't start a war.  War is a word that has no bearing without politics, and nationalities.  The Quarians went home per their Governments orders and attempted to turn off their Labor Robots.  I would assume many of these got terminated. 

What started the genocide of the Quarian people was when the Government attempted to terminate the programs of the military platforms.  A consensus was taken, and all Geth began systmatically murdering all organic life on the planet.

So you're saying that the quarian politics (or indeed any quarian) were completely ignorant that the Geth were AI? Then why the rush to shut them down for asking if they had souls for the...who knows how manyith time? I thought the whole reason for the OMG SHUT THEM DOWN!!!1111!! was because they were believed to have reached AI status which was illegal and would harm the Quarian's standing with the Council. 

Someone With Mass wrote...
Oh, so just because some military/politicians made a mistake, every single man, woman and child of the same race deserves to die? Just because their leaders tried to prevent their tools from becoming sentient? Especially when the tools in question weren't really sentient?

That's nice to know. You know, I'm glad people with viewpoints like that can't have any real power in this world, because that would lead to full scale anarchy within the same day. It's that stupid.

Oh so just beause some military/politicians/scientists made a mistake every geth deserved to be destroyed? And yes the geth were sentient. 

Ah the "you're stupid because I don't like your arguement!" tactic. How very nonoriginal. Nice insults. I'll be the more mature person and step away from the conversation since you seem unable to keep it without insults. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 août 2011 - 02:57 .

[Kitteh303]

Couldn't it be argued that the geth (not the heretics) could be a great asset in the fight against the reapers? The quarians seem like a liability to me because of their horribly weakened immune systems and whatnot. And isn't their population relatively low compared to other species?

I don't want in on the argument, just putting forward possibilities... don't eat me. XD

[Someone With Mass]

Let me tell you what one single geth is.

Nothing more than a VI.

[xXljoshlXx]

[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...

[quote]xXljoshlXx wrote...
Please stop with the insults it only makes you look bad.
Ah but  before the war they became sentient so that must mean they had killed innocent sentient beings
[/quote]
[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...
That's an insult? Wow.
I erased your insults because it need not be said again look back a couple pages you and several other Qaurian supporters are calling people disgusting.[/quote]

[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...
Read up on how the geth works.
They can barely achieve sentience on their own now, and they were on the verge to achieve full sentience then, which the quarians didn't want.
Is EDI innocent too? You better believe that if she behaves in a way people aboard the ship don't like/can put them in danger/in a way she shouldn't be behaving because she wasn't programmed for it, they'd pull the plug without a second thought.
If my computer starts something that I didn't want or authorized, or begins to question its existence in some way, I'd format the hard drive.[/quote]
So they are guilty too 

If you tried to kill a computer before it gained sentience but it gained it right before the pulling of the plug and it fought you back and continued to try and pull the plug you aren't the innocent one in situation you may not like it but that's how it is.

Modifié par xXljoshlXx, 14 août 2011 - 02:59 .

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Let me tell you what one single geth is.

Nothing more than a VI.

And? You could be broken down into basic components as well. 

Unless of course you believe humans are magically special because we have souls.

Modifié par marshalleck, 14 août 2011 - 02:56 .

[Clonedzero]

Warlocomotf wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

again, ignore my point about during the morningwar the geth were basically children themselves. having just attained self-awareness and having to fight for their lives.

I don't think this is a very good reason. The Geth have memory of well before they became sentient, and were sentient years before the Quarians actually found out.

memory without the context of conciousness isnt super meaningful. they would need to reflect on that. they sorta didnt have alot of time to sort through all of that when they were being murdered.

[Chun Hei]

Did it ever occur to anyone that neither the Geth nor the Quarians are wrong but that they may have interests that are incompatible with one another? The bacteria I may have in my blood may not be evil but I will take gladly take drugs to destroy them. I am not evil for eating a chicken sandwich but a chicken would be entirely within its rights to pick up a gun and start shooting chicken farmers if it were able to do so.