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[Rockworm503]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

This thread has stopped being cool.
What I'm seeing a couple of people giving valid reasons for picking the Geth and everyone else jumping down their throats for it.
"you just like LEGION LOLOLOL"
"their machines how can any person chose machines over living beings?"
Or my personal favorite "you want to justify what the Geth did."
What are the quarians gonna do when they decide to attack the Geth? Get sick on them?
Look at the bigger picture here The Reapers are coming. Its terrible what happened to the Quarians but their either going to step in line with the other races or face extinction.
Same with the Geth I'm not siding with them because Legion is cool or because the "Quarians had it coming" (stupid reason no matter how you slice it)
I'm siding with them because I don't think the Quarians are willing to put aside their differences long enough to face the Reapers. Why should they? Their just machines right? You anti Geth (at least the ones who are against them because their simply machines) are making my argument for me.

You're ignoring all the valid reasons not to choose Geth?  That you're basing your opinions off conversation with "one" mobile platform.  You're taking that Geth as 100 true, accurate and gospel.

Paragon Shepard won't let one sentient machine race, destroy the Quarians just to stop another sentient machine race.  It's funny how you're on the Geth side but totally cool with destroying the Reapers.

If I'm wrong than I'll happily side with the Quarians instead.
And what about destroying the Reapers?  Are you seriously going to sit there and suggest that the Geth are just as bad because of their past mistakes?
I thought the whole poing of the games was to destroy the Reapers.  Is it because their machines like the Geth?  I don't get what your saying

Don't bring the point of the game into the arguement.

Reapers machine sentience that has tried to kill Shepard/Citadel.  In the past has destroyed all life in the Galaxy.
Geth machine sentience that has tried to kill Shepard/Citadel.  In the past destroyed all life in a  solar system.

How do you know the Reapers don't attack organics because when they achieved sentience millenia ago their organic creators tried to terminate them.

By your own arguements  the Reapers are well within there rights to kill any organic species that threatens to become powerful enough to terminate them.  I mean Yeah the current organics didn't actually have anything to do with that, but niether did the current Quarians have anything to do with what happened to the Geth.

I'm done.
The Geth haters are just gonna continue putting words in my mouth.
I never once tried to justify what the Geth did to the Quarians.
If the best you can do is bring up a straw man that says "their machines therefore you should love the reapers too"  than I have nothing left to say to you because by your own logic than no life form can do wrong because you love the Quarians.
Pathetic attempts to make my argument look bad.
Ironic that you use the Reapers like this.  Reapers are looking to destroy all life in the galaxy.
Quarians tried to destroy all Geth.
Hmm I wonder which side is more alike..
Not really thinking this but your logic doesn't make a lick of sense and I'm just responding in kind.

So I've noticed this "strawman" crap that I've never seen on any other forum gets played a ton on this one.  I think it's current use here though means "OMG someone said something I can deny/explain so I'm gonna stick my fingers in my ears and lalalala"

Of course I'm trying to make your arguements look bad, while supporting my own.  That's the point of arguements.

Yes Reapers are trying to destroy all life.  

Yes Quarian tried to destroy all Geth.  (But I still see nothing wrong with this.)

Yes Geth destroyed all of the Quarian minus the 1% or less that managed to escape.  They are still pretty much destroyed.

I don't need to stick my fingers in my ears if I CAN deny/explain.
There really is nothing left to say to you.  Your going to ignore my points so I'll do the same to you.

Your entire Argument is "machines are all evil and should be destroyed Quarians are all right to try and destroy them"
Sorry can't take you seriously when thats all you can come up with.
Reapers are bad and are machines
There fore Geth are machines are also bad.
Its the same thing as saying.
Vorcha are stupid and live on Omega.
Therefore all Asari are stupid because some live on Omega.

[Rockworm503]

marshalleck wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

In that case the Quarians should still pay for what they've done because hey their all responsible for what their race did even if they weren't there.

Cool. So you're reporting to the nearest prison to serve a life sentence for the recent mass-murders in Norway, right?

Thats CMDR Locks retarded argument not mine.

[ThanesSniper]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Who said they don't count?  Another Geth?  Oh right cause Geth are always truthful, never lie, and have never done anything to warrant not trusting them.

Not every single Human no.  But, according to my Government every single Taliban member is to blame.  Even the ones not directly involved.  Or that weren't members when it happened.

I'm simply saying Legion could be lying and to formulate an entire opinion based on what he says is silly.

Well, I agree with that, but that also applies to the Quarians. They could just be telling you what you want to hear to get their planet back. I think we can both agree that both sides committed sins in the past, and that we can't take anything said to us at face value because each side has a stake in the outcome.

[Rogue Unit]

marshalleck wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

The current existing Quarians have done NOTHING wrong to the Geth.  Yet the Geth still attack every Organic race across the Galaxy.  Yes there is one Geth Mobile Platform glaiming those Geth aren't the same, but that same Geth says also that all Geth are just geth.

you mean like gathering samples of geth parts to study and developing a weapons against them? invading geth terrortory to get scientific data on a star?

Oh man, not collecting scrap and studying stars! ****ing quarians, what a bunch of jerks. Who do they think they are.

Yes, because the Geth totally knew what the Quarians were doing. They invaded Geth territory. Who's to say they weren't gathering data on the Geth themselves. We all know what happened when the Quarians did get their hands on Geth parts/tech.

[CMDR Locke]

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

So I've noticed this "strawman" crap that I've never seen on any other forum gets played a ton on this one.  I think it's current use here though means "OMG someone said something I can deny/explain so I'm gonna stick my fingers in my ears and lalalala"

Of course I'm trying to make your arguements look bad, while supporting my own.  That's the point of arguements.

Yes Reapers are trying to destroy all life.  

Yes Quarian tried to destroy all Geth.  (But I still see nothing wrong with this.)

Yes Geth destroyed all of the Quarian minus the 1% or less that managed to escape.  They are still pretty much destroyed.

im not sure you understand what a straw man is.

A straw man argument is a rhetorical device that is meant to easily prove that one’s position or argument is superior to an opposing argument. However, the straw man argument is regarded as a logical fallacy, because at its core, the person using the device misrepresents the other person's argument.

I am not misrepresenting anyone's arguement.  You just can't refute my logic.

[Rockworm503]

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

So I've noticed this "strawman" crap that I've never seen on any other forum gets played a ton on this one.  I think it's current use here though means "OMG someone said something I can deny/explain so I'm gonna stick my fingers in my ears and lalalala"

Of course I'm trying to make your arguements look bad, while supporting my own.  That's the point of arguements.

Yes Reapers are trying to destroy all life.  

Yes Quarian tried to destroy all Geth.  (But I still see nothing wrong with this.)

Yes Geth destroyed all of the Quarian minus the 1% or less that managed to escape.  They are still pretty much destroyed.

im not sure you understand what a straw man is.

The more I read his posts the more I'm thinking he doesn't understand anything that doesn't fit into his limtied viewpoint.

[Ryzaki]

marshalleck wrote..
Yes, I know. Someone somewhere was affected by any crime I could have referred to. 

Usually one choose things that happened more than a month ago. Just sayin'. 

There's plenty of historical slaughters you could've used. Plenty that serve a far closer analogy as well. 

As it is it's just a tasteless comparison with no true basis. The Quarians aren't completely innocent of any wrong doing like those that bastard slaughtered. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 août 2011 - 05:21 .

[Someone With Mass]

Clonedzero wrote...
without any sense of metagaming. can you tell me the good or negative results of any of those? you can't.
they are morally grey. thats the point.

this entire thread has fallen apart the last 10 or so pages. its just "my shade of grey is better than yours". do you really not see that?

http://www.escapistm...Enriching-Lives

Some people apparently didn't think those choices were morally grey. Neither did I. 

Just because you can't see all the consequences of your actions doesn't make both choices right.

[Rockworm503]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

So I've noticed this "strawman" crap that I've never seen on any other forum gets played a ton on this one.  I think it's current use here though means "OMG someone said something I can deny/explain so I'm gonna stick my fingers in my ears and lalalala"

Of course I'm trying to make your arguements look bad, while supporting my own.  That's the point of arguements.

Yes Reapers are trying to destroy all life.  

Yes Quarian tried to destroy all Geth.  (But I still see nothing wrong with this.)

Yes Geth destroyed all of the Quarian minus the 1% or less that managed to escape.  They are still pretty much destroyed.

im not sure you understand what a straw man is.

A straw man argument is a rhetorical device that is meant to easily prove that one’s position or argument is superior to an opposing argument. However, the straw man argument is regarded as a logical fallacy, because at its core, the person using the device misrepresents the other person's argument.

I am not misrepresenting anyone's arguement.  You just can't refute my logic.

You got me there.  Can't refute logic of someone who makes up his own logic.

[CMDR Locke]

ThanesSniper wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Who said they don't count?  Another Geth?  Oh right cause Geth are always truthful, never lie, and have never done anything to warrant not trusting them.

Not every single Human no.  But, according to my Government every single Taliban member is to blame.  Even the ones not directly involved.  Or that weren't members when it happened.

I'm simply saying Legion could be lying and to formulate an entire opinion based on what he says is silly.

Well, I agree with that, but that also applies to the Quarians. They could just be telling you what you want to hear to get their planet back. I think we can both agree that both sides committed sins in the past, and that we can't take anything said to us at face value because each side has a stake in the outcome.

I see you called it their planet.  I don't think what the Quarians planned to do was unmoral or unethical.  They attempted to shut down computer programs before they became sentient and questioned their existence and started a war.  The Quarians were to little to late odviously.

But, would it not be Genocide (not my word) to have shut them down before sentience happened, knowing sentience could happen?

[Sisterofshane]

Rogue Unit wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

The current existing Quarians have done NOTHING wrong to the Geth.  Yet the Geth still attack every Organic race across the Galaxy.  Yes there is one Geth Mobile Platform glaiming those Geth aren't the same, but that same Geth says also that all Geth are just geth.

STILL?!?! Where did you hear that they STILL attack every organic? So now the Quarians are innocent but the Geth are still evil right? Careful, your bias is showing.

Yes still.  2 years ago they tried to destroy the known galaxy.  They attacked the Quarian s on Haelstrom.  The recently renetworked Geth in the Migrant fleet also didn't try to use diplomacy.  So yes STILL GETH are still attacking and killing organics, oh wait....  those Geth don't count right?

Yes, because those Geth on the Migrant Fleet had no reason to attack those Quarians. And Tali and her crew invaded Geth territory so yes, they were attacked. They knew it would happen for the minute they decided to go into Geth territory.

Both sides don't trust each other and with good reasons on both ends.

Agree -- some of those things were not completely unprovoked.

And Legion brings some pretty convincing evidence that the Geth who were sided with Saren were some sort of splinter group, and to me, blaming ALL the geth for what happened to the citadel would be on par with blaming the whole of humanity for the actions of Cerebus.

And you can't blame them for trying to eliminate threats of organics that come beyond the veil.  Every interaction with the Quarians had, up until they abandoned their planets, ended with the Quarians trying to eliminate them.  And, from what they know by "observing" us (we know from Legion that they monitor our transmissions and such), that there is a prevailing opinion among the organic civilizations that AI is "wrong".  They are merely being cautios.

I really hope that there is at least a chance of "truce" amongs the Quarians and the Geth.  I really think it comes down to the Quarians, however.

[Clonedzero]

marshalleck wrote...



Oh man, not collecting scrap and studying stars! ****ing quarians, what a bunch of jerks. Who do they think they are.

yeah, lets murder dudes and steal their bodies to study.
also lets invade their land and study stuff.

[ThanesSniper]

CMDR Locke wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Who said they don't count?  Another Geth?  Oh right cause Geth are always truthful, never lie, and have never done anything to warrant not trusting them.

Not every single Human no.  But, according to my Government every single Taliban member is to blame.  Even the ones not directly involved.  Or that weren't members when it happened.

I'm simply saying Legion could be lying and to formulate an entire opinion based on what he says is silly.

Well, I agree with that, but that also applies to the Quarians. They could just be telling you what you want to hear to get their planet back. I think we can both agree that both sides committed sins in the past, and that we can't take anything said to us at face value because each side has a stake in the outcome.

I see you called it their planet.  I don't think what the Quarians planned to do was unmoral or unethical.  They attempted to shut down computer programs before they became sentient and questioned their existence and started a war.  The Quarians were to little to late odviously.

But, would it not be Genocide (not my word) to have shut them down before sentience happened, knowing sentience could happen?

No, I don't think it would be considered genocide if they're shut down before they achieve sentience. But if that happened, it wouldn't make the story even nearly as interesting. However, attempting to shut them down because they've gained sentience, now that's what I would consider genocide.

[Someone With Mass]

I don't think it's that easy to point out the exact moment when a machine intelligence achieves sentience.

[Clonedzero]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
without any sense of metagaming. can you tell me the good or negative results of any of those? you can't.
they are morally grey. thats the point.

this entire thread has fallen apart the last 10 or so pages. its just "my shade of grey is better than yours". do you really not see that?

http://www.escapistm...Enriching-Lives

Some people apparently didn't think those choices were morally grey. Neither did I. 

Just because you can't see all the consequences of your actions doesn't make both choices right.

some people arent raging talimancers.

[CMDR Locke]

Rockworm503 wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

So I've noticed this "strawman" crap that I've never seen on any other forum gets played a ton on this one.  I think it's current use here though means "OMG someone said something I can deny/explain so I'm gonna stick my fingers in my ears and lalalala"

Of course I'm trying to make your arguements look bad, while supporting my own.  That's the point of arguements.

Yes Reapers are trying to destroy all life.  

Yes Quarian tried to destroy all Geth.  (But I still see nothing wrong with this.)

Yes Geth destroyed all of the Quarian minus the 1% or less that managed to escape.  They are still pretty much destroyed.

im not sure you understand what a straw man is.

A straw man argument is a rhetorical device that is meant to easily prove that one’s position or argument is superior to an opposing argument. However, the straw man argument is regarded as a logical fallacy, because at its core, the person using the device misrepresents the other person's argument.

I am not misrepresenting anyone's arguement.  You just can't refute my logic.

You got me there.  Can't refute logic of someone who makes up his own logic.

What do you mean my onw logic?

My arguement has been that a single "entity" the Geth who are only sentient gestalted together is not worth more than 17 million individual Quarian.

My arguement is that the Geth have proven to be on the side of the Reapers.  For over 2 years until you come across a gestalted mobile platform that tells you they are not.  That tells you there are 2 seperate groups of Geth, and then has you re-write them (destroy them) making their group of Geth stronger.

[Someone With Mass]

Clonedzero wrote...
some people arent raging talimancers.

That's a really useful insight. Thank you for sharing this incredibly deep detail with me.

[Clonedzero]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
some people arent raging talimancers.

That's a really useful insight. Thank you for sharing this incredibly deep detail with me.

you linked the excapist and expected a serious reply. you did it to yourself lol

[Golden Owl]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

I side with the Geth. They aren't your friendly neighbourhood AI, I'll give you that, but at least they aren't a species who's willing to commit genocide the very second their slave labour makes a question about their existence, and then proceeds to play the "poor me" card because they got their butts handed to them by the very race they tried to slaughter.

In some ways this^....I don't dislike the Quarians, but the simple fact is they did go in for a slaughter fest without provocation once they realized their creation had become self aware....the Geth simply started by trying to defend themselves from attack, yes the Geth took it too far, just as the Quarians had planned to do....wipe out a whole species.....The Quarians remain unwilling to consider alternatives, the Geth display a willingness.

[Someone With Mass]

Clonedzero wrote...
you linked the excapist and expected a serious reply. you did it to yourself lol

Okay, if you're not going to bother, neither will I.

Bye, twerp.

[medcsu]

Not gonna lie, the dork fest about Tali is quite humorous. Some chick with hoofs and a mask attracts as much attention to these tools as hentai. I'm sure they are the same "men" that like tentacle love too.

Bottom line is Tali is a solid squadmate, albeit annoying and needy. However, the Geth, in the end, will make a far, FAR superior tactical ally than the worthless Quarians.

The Quarians have infighting, a ragtag/gypsy fleet, are most likely horrible shock troops. Where as the Geth have a singular purpose, have a very strong fleet, have zero emotion to cloud them during battle and will have a considerably less chance to backstab Shepard as they are machines (assuming this here).

Now before you Quarian lover geeks get your g-strings in a bunch, I am not saying the Quarians are utterly worthless. But in the scheme of a decision (both choices will ultimately equate to a victory anyhow - assumed), it is far more prudent (if this was real) to pick the option that gives you the best chance to beat your enemy and that is easily the Geth.

[Rockworm503]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

So I've noticed this "strawman" crap that I've never seen on any other forum gets played a ton on this one.  I think it's current use here though means "OMG someone said something I can deny/explain so I'm gonna stick my fingers in my ears and lalalala"

Of course I'm trying to make your arguements look bad, while supporting my own.  That's the point of arguements.

Yes Reapers are trying to destroy all life.  

Yes Quarian tried to destroy all Geth.  (But I still see nothing wrong with this.)

Yes Geth destroyed all of the Quarian minus the 1% or less that managed to escape.  They are still pretty much destroyed.

im not sure you understand what a straw man is.

A straw man argument is a rhetorical device that is meant to easily prove that one’s position or argument is superior to an opposing argument. However, the straw man argument is regarded as a logical fallacy, because at its core, the person using the device misrepresents the other person's argument.

I am not misrepresenting anyone's arguement.  You just can't refute my logic.

You got me there.  Can't refute logic of someone who makes up his own logic.

What do you mean my onw logic?

My arguement has been that a single "entity" the Geth who are only sentient gestalted together is not worth more than 17 million individual Quarian.

My arguement is that the Geth have proven to be on the side of the Reapers.  For over 2 years until you come across a gestalted mobile platform that tells you they are not.  That tells you there are 2 seperate groups of Geth, and then has you re-write them (destroy them) making their group of Geth stronger.

Wait a second your saying that Legion is a Heretic and saved your life so you can rewrite all true geth?
WOW

Modifié par Rockworm503, 14 août 2011 - 05:23 .

[SandTrout]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
you linked the excapist and expected a serious reply. you did it to yourself lol

Okay, if you're not going to bother, neither will I.

Bye, twerp.

This is why no one respects your opinion.

[medcsu]

medcsu wrote...

Not gonna lie, the dork fest about Tali is quite humorous. Some chick with hoofs and a mask attracts as much attention to these tools as hentai. I'm sure they are the same "men" that like tentacle love too.

Bottom line is Tali is a solid squadmate, albeit annoying and needy. However, the Geth, in the end, will make a far, FAR superior tactical ally than the Quarians.

The Quarians have infighting, a ragtag/gypsy fleet, are most likely horrible shock troops. Where as the Geth have a singular purpose, have a very strong fleet, have zero emotion to cloud them during battle and will have a considerably less chance to backstab Shepard as they are machines (assuming this here).

Now before you Quarian lover geeks get your g-strings in a bunch, I am not saying the Quarians are utterly worthless. But in the scheme of a decision (both choices will ultimately equate to a victory anyhow - assumed), it is far more prudent (if this was real) to pick the option that gives you the best chance to beat your enemy and that is easily the Geth.

[Clonedzero]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
you linked the excapist and expected a serious reply. you did it to yourself lol

Okay, if you're not going to bother, neither will I.

Bye, twerp.

what? you linked the excapist dude. the excapist ...