758 réponses à ce sujet

[Quole]

Clonedzero wrote...

Kasai666 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kasai666 wrote...
Worded poorly. The majority of the geth want peace, but the majority of the quarians want to kill all the geth. One quarians made the mistake by trying to kill the geth that asked if it had a soul. The geth fought back because they wanted to survive, not kill all the quarians out of spite. 

Or not.

Exactly my point. It was the first time one got worried when asked. One quarian started the war. 

no. one quarian didnt start the war rofl.
the quarians as a species decided to shut down the geth. it wasnt one person rofl, where did you get that from?

Actually, it was their government that did.

[Clonedzero]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Killing off 99% of a species, killing every quarian unable to flee, is murder, it is genocide.

well, the difference in that war. quarians attempted genocide against the geth. the geth in turn were successful in their retaliatory genocide.

so yeah, the quarians totally tried to commit genocide, they just sucked at it lol

[Clonedzero]

Quole wrote...

Actually, it was their government that did.

oh damn, i wonder who their government was created to represent?

[azerSheppard]

randomchasegurney wrote...

A single geth alone is no smarter then say a loki mech (it can shoot and walk but can't think or plan.) When you have BILLIONS of them in one place they can think, build, and invent. Can't really word it better then 1 geth = 1 dumb Vi 12 geth = 12 "smart" AI 1 billion geth = new race. This is true because the more numerous the smarter they get. Legion is a special geth (only one of him.)  So stop thinking legion is what the general geth are like!

I don't think you read my post, read it again, slowly, 3 times.

Really i can't put it more simply that that, the argument you just made was proven to be false by the post you replied it to.
I mean wow.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Killing off 99% of a species, killing every quarian unable to flee, is murder, it is genocide.

Where do you get that percentage. Also, by your logic, if you attempt genocide, and fail only to have you numbers diminished to a few million, you become a victim?
So for instance the Naz! supremasist where victims, because they failed to kill off every race and pretty much died out themselves? that doesn't make much sense.
!
Don't look in the naz! part too deep, i'm not camparing the Quarians to the Naz!s, all i'm doing is making an analogy with known real life examples. <-- incase someone misunderstands.

[Clonedzero]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

well, the difference in that war.

No, there is no difference. It is still genocide.

and what the quarians attempted to do against the geth, was still genocide.

your point?

[Quole]

robarcool wrote...

I like Tali, but the quarians crossed the line. Geth will be saved in all my playthroughs if it comes to this.

How did they cross the line?

[DialupToaster]

azerSheppard wrote...

randomchasegurney wrote...

The geth do not need the planet to survive the quarians do.
Now you think it is morally just to murder children and adult quarians alike just because a long time ago the quarians wanted to turn off a machine they thought was going to kill them all? Though if not given a choice it is better strategically to choose the geth.
So for paragons choosing geth and renegades picking quarians, I am willing to bet that
Renegade = geth
neutral = quarian
paragon = stop fight.
Just a guess but you know how the do it....

Common misconception, the Geth did not retaliate in means of total annihilation, they retaliated in armed combat, to defend their right of self-termination. (how ironic)
And gave the Quarians a chance to flee, if wanted they could easily wipe them out even now. But they won't, they only want to improve themselves, unite into one unit.

They have not killed a single quarian since the so called war. (This excludes heretic activity). Legion was the first Geth to leave their territory. (atleast thats what i remember) And Shepard was the first organic they wanted to contact.

So no it not morally just to murder innocents, but the Geth would agree with you on that.

I am talking about the supposed fight between them happening during the reaper war. I know that the geth did not give chase to the quarians, they only exiled them.
What I mean is that I am horrified that some people actually say they (shepard) would kill the quarians even if there was a peacefull solution just because what they did to the geth was wrong.

But on a side note, the amount of dead quarians could not have all been soldiers.
In the end its a game right?

[Quole]

Clonedzero wrote...

Quole wrote...

Actually, it was their government that did.

oh damn, i wonder who their government was created to represent?

You realize how stupid you just sounded right? Not all Americans wanted their country to go to war with Iraq. Likewise, not all Germans agreed with Hitler.

Modifié par Quole, 12 août 2011 - 09:09 .

[ThanesSniper]

About the genocide argument...

Both races attempted genocide during the Morning War. The Geth were just more successful.

[Saaziel]

randomchasegurney wrote...
True, but can you say that you yourself would not hold a grudge against a species that made it so that you have to live your life on a ship until you die and can never take your suit of for more then a short while?

You can still hold a grudge and open up a dialogue .They wouldn't be in this condition if did.

randomchasegurney wrote...That because of the geth the citadel races refuse to even let you colonize? That every other race has a grudge against you?

That's not something the Geth can directly change ... Unless they destroy the council races.

randomchasegurney wrote...Finally how can shepard rationalize commiting genocide against the quarians because they attempted genocide against the geth a long time ago? Or how can he rationalize commiting genocide against the geth because the quarians wont negotiate their planet back?

You mean , within the topic of this thread.

Its a strategic decision. Organics can be indoctrinated , synthetics cannot. Organics die , the Geth do not. We need a varied force to combat the Reapers , and this will not be over soon. Soldiers that don't require to Eat , Sleep or Comforts would be a valuable asset.

Moreover , should we fail , we'd need to warn the next cycle; The Geth are the best option at hand.

Again, every Shepard is different.

Modifié par Saaziel, 12 août 2011 - 09:20 .

[Clonedzero]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

and what the quarians attempted to do against the geth, was still genocide.

your point?

That doesn't matter because the quarians didn't carry it out but the geth did.

I don't think you really understand, or are capable of understanding, exactly what genocide means or how it would have had to be carried out to kill the quarians off in such high numbers.

the geth were common household slaves. it wouldnt be that hard if all the geth organized and killed their slave owners all at once. they werent rounding them up into camps or anything. the geth would have no reason to do that. the quarians were all trying to deactivate them (i.e kill them), they saw all the quarians as a threat since they were all ordered to deactivate (kill) their geth.

and attempting to do something absolutely still matters. if i try to kill someone and im unsuccessful its still a crime and i still go to jail for it.

[Seryuu]

Erani wrote...

If I'm forced to chose (no option for peace), the Geth. It's not their fault they were created. They are sentient, sapient, and only want their Dyson sphere and to exist in peace. The quarians should be ashamed of their behavior toward the geth.

[azerSheppard]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

and what the quarians attempted to do against the geth, was still genocide.

your point?

That doesn't matter because the quarians failed to carry it out but the geth did.

I don't think you really understand, or are capable of understanding, exactly what genocide means or how it would have had to be carried out to kill the quarians off in such high numbers.

Fixed

They Failed to carry it out.
Didn't carry it out would imply they chose to let the geth live.

[ThanesSniper]

Saphra Deden wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

About the genocide argument...

Both races attempted genocide during the Morning War. The Geth were just more successful.

A LOT more successful, which in no way diminishes what they did.

If two gang members try to murder one another the winner is still going to prison for committing murder.

Well, it'd be more like one gang attacking another only to be wiped-out. The self-defence argument could easily be successful in a court of law.

[Quole]

Clonedzero wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

and what the quarians attempted to do against the geth, was still genocide.

your point?

That doesn't matter because the quarians didn't carry it out but the geth did.

I don't think you really understand, or are capable of understanding, exactly what genocide means or how it would have had to be carried out to kill the quarians off in such high numbers.

the geth were common household slaves. it wouldnt be that hard if all the geth organized and killed their slave owners all at once. they werent rounding them up into camps or anything. the geth would have no reason to do that. the quarians were all trying to deactivate them (i.e kill them), they saw all the quarians as a threat since they were all ordered to deactivate (kill) their geth.

and attempting to do something absolutely still matters. if i try to kill someone and im unsuccessful its still a crime and i still go to jail for it.

Except not all quarians agreed with it. Koris is proof of that.

[Clonedzero]

Quole wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Quole wrote...

Actually, it was their government that did.

oh damn, i wonder who their government was created to represent?

You realize how stupid you just sounded right? Not all Americans wanted their country to go to war with Iraq. Likewise, not all Germans agreed with Hitler.

stupid? how is that stupid? in a democracy as the quarians had. your government is chosen by the people, the people, THE PEOPLE.

just because the individual might disagree doesnt mean it was the people as a whole who decided on that.

americans do vote you know...

[Clonedzero]

Quole wrote...


Except not all quarians agreed with it. Koris is proof of that.

alot of good they did huh? they didnt stop them.
and koris has hindsight he doesnt count.

[Quole]

Erani wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Erani wrote...

If I'm forced to chose (no option for peace), the Geth. It's not their fault they were created. They are sentient, sapient, and only want their Dyson sphere and to exist in peace. The quarians should be ashamed of their behavior toward the geth.

Yeah, how dare the quarians in the present that have nothing to do with the actions their ancestors made hundreds of years ago that lead to the brutually slaughter of several billion of quarians try to make everything normal again.

Seriosuly.

Yes, the quarians made a mistake, and they paid dearly for it.

But blaming them all for something their ancestors (who aren't even alive anymore) did, and leaving them all to die because of that is just...retarded. 

By that logic, the salarians and the turians should also be left to die.

Errr I'm referring to their current behavior toward the Geth. "...try to make everything normal again?"....from what I saw during Tali's loyalty mission, it's only a minority that wants peace with the Geth...and as Legion said whenever the quarians have had the chance they have attacked. So no, I'm not blaming the quarians for what their ancestors did, but for their continued belligerence towards the geth. They have had a long time to reconsider their position and still have not done so.

1. Actually only one admiral wants war, so THEY are int he minority.

2. Seeing as how the only contact they have with the geth, as well as the rest of the galaxy is with the heretics, how can you blame them for attacking? The quarians dont even know about the true geth.

[Quole]

Clonedzero wrote...

Quole wrote...


Except not all quarians agreed with it. Koris is proof of that.

alot of good they did huh? they didnt stop them.
and koris has hindsight he doesnt count.

A lot of good americans did when they didnt stop their country from going to war with Iraq huh? Same with Germany and Hitler. Again, whats your point?

[Quole]

Clonedzero wrote...

Quole wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Quole wrote...

Actually, it was their government that did.

oh damn, i wonder who their government was created to represent?

You realize how stupid you just sounded right? Not all Americans wanted their country to go to war with Iraq. Likewise, not all Germans agreed with Hitler.

stupid? how is that stupid? in a democracy as the quarians had. your government is chosen by the people, the people, THE PEOPLE.

just because the individual might disagree doesnt mean it was the people as a whole who decided on that.

americans do vote you know...

Right, Im sure when americans were voting, they were aware that 911 was going to happen, right?