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[Quole]

Clonedzero wrote...

Quole wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Quole wrote...

Wow. Im speechless at your stupidity.......... wait. Pwener, is that you?

what significance do the minority of quarians who hypothetically were pro-geth rights have in this current discussion, please tell me. seriously.

they didnt stop it.
they've never even been mentioned or referenced.
they might not have even existed.
you made them up.

how are relevent to the discussion?

My point is; They obviously did exsist,  if they exsist now. My point is that not everyone deserved what happened if they didnt agree with their government`s descision. Like on Earth, you can protest ect. but when your government and lot of people decide something, theres not much you can do about it. So, many of the quarians had to suffer for something they likely didnt even agree with. By your logic, if a country went to war, but 30% of the population disagreed with it, everyone would be at fault, even there was nothing they could do to prevent it.

not necessarily. the quarians now have the benefit of hindsight. you're assuming they cared with absolutely no evidence. the quarians saw the geth as cheap, guilt free slave labor. as machines. to them it was just turning off their washer machine.

and yes. if a country went to war and 30% of the population disagreed with it everyone would be at fault. theres PLENTY 30% of the population can do to prevent a war if they care enough about it. again, off topic.

also. how is this relevent to the disussion? because a hypothetical minority MIGHT have disagreed with attempting genocide against the geth, that makes it ok? seriously, whats your point?

Ok. Im done talking with the troll. Theres no possible way you could be THAT stupid.

[Clonedzero]

Saphra Deden wrote...

All of this of-course ignores the fact that the quarians too were acting in self-defense.

the geth asking if they had souls and attaining self awareness was going to kill the quarians? are they allergic to self-awareness or something?

[Clonedzero]

Quole wrote...

Ok. Im done talking with the troll. Theres no possible way you could be THAT stupid.

so because you have no real point, can add nothing of value to the discussion, have no way to prove im wrong. you're just going to call me stupid and a troll huh?

classy.

dont worry, sometimes when someone proves me wrong, i get mad, call them stupid and storm out like a baby too.

[Srsface]

Difficult choice. Most of my playthroughs have attempted and stressed peace. I have been clear with the Quarians that I do not agree with a war against the Geth. Should it come to it, I would probably not support the Quarians, to be consistent with my previous actions. On the other hand, I really enjoy fighting the Geth. I don't dislike the Geth, hell, it's just the opposite. They're just really fun enemies to fight.

That said, I will be really, REALLY pissed if I must make a choice on this. It just feels like such an obvious little plot twist, that Shepard must end up choosing between the Geth and the Quarians. It's too predictable, too easy.

[azerSheppard]

Clonedzero wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

All of this of-course ignores the fact that the quarians where covering their ass from illigal reasearch and slavery.

the geth asking if they had souls and attaining self awareness was going to kill the quarians? are they allergic to self-awareness or something?

Try reading it again xd

Modifié par azerSheppard, 12 août 2011 - 09:56 .

[Fates end]

Personally, all of my Sheps will side with the Quarians if it comes down to a fight between them and the Geth. I'd rather it didn't come down to a fight, because that would mean a pretty massive loss of life and equipment to whatever side won the battle.

The Quarians have suffered quite enough, it seems to me. They're willing to help fight the Reapers, they just don't want their civilians onboard when they do it (thus they either need their own planet back, or another planet suitable for habitation). While they are susceptible to indoctrination, aren't the Geth as well? I think the Geth could possibly be more of a liability in a fight against the Reapers, due to their shared intelligence.

And frankly . . . I trust the Quarians more than I do the Geth.

[DialupToaster]

azerSheppard wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

All of this of-course ignores the fact that the quarians where covering their ass from illigal reasearch and slavery.

points out fact.

So all the quarians were punished 300 years later (correct me if I'm wrong) their children are still being punished.
What I gather from this is...
Quarians are wrong for illegal research (if illegal at the time)
Geth are victims turned violent (due to isolationism made it impossible for quarians or anyone else to make contact and negotiate)
Council are guilty of punishing an entire race for the crimes of the few (who are also long dead) and should now have given a chance for quarians to recover.
Shepard may be guilty of genocide (if you are forced to choose or decide to be a jerk)

Anything I miss?

Modifié par randomchasegurney, 12 août 2011 - 10:04 .

[DialupToaster]

Btw Reapers have a geth hack ready to go anyway that would control all geth and allow for the geth to remain as good a combat as ever. Just thought to point it out.

[Guanxi]

                                                                    Quarian vs. Geth conflict (Predictions)


Outcome 1: Stalemate (default)


Tali: Treason (Unresolved) = Research data destroyed
Legion: A House Divided (Unresolved) =  Geth civil war

After a grueling conflict decimates both sides neither side have the available resources to contribute to the galactic war effort against the Reapers due to internal issues: The Geth cede Rannoch in order to concentrate their efforts on the civil war with the 'Heretics', while the Quarians recolonize the homeworld with their remaining survivors.


Outcome 2: Peace (ME2 import required)


Tali: Treason (Resolved) =   Geth neural network hacked
Legion: A House Divided (Resolved) =  Civil war averted/Geth unification

The war teeters on a knife edge as both sides are primed for victory (thanks to Shepard's actions in ME2) but Shepard acts quickly to mediate the conflict using his influence with both sides in order to secure resources for the galactic war effort against the reapers by reminding both sides at what is at stake and that non of this will matter if the reapers win. The Geth cede Rannoch in order to secure lasting peace terms with the Quarians who in return turn over their research/weapon data that could undermine the Geth's sentience/independence/future.


Outcome 3: Geth Victory (ME2 import required)


Tali: Treason (Unresolved) =  Research data destroyed
Legion: A House Divided (Resolved) = i) Civil war averted/ii) Geth unification

i) Rannoch secured by the Geth, Quarians decimated: Quarians lack resources to colonize a new world so remain as nomads aboard Migrant Fleet. Shepard convinces the Geth to contribute to the galactic war effort to 'secure their future'.

ii) Quarians totally annihilated, Migrant Fleet in ruins, Geth have ample resources to contribute to the galactic war effort and make a sizeable impact.


Outcome 4: Quarian Victory (ME2 import required)


Tali: Treason (Resolved)  =  Geth neural network hacked
Legion: A House Divided (Unresolved)  = Geth civil war

i) If pushed for peace: Admiral Ran lead Quarians re-enslave the Geth, Unified Quarian/Geth fleet makes sizeable impact in the galactic conflict

i) If pushed for war: the combined effects of the civil and quarian war leave the Geth too decimated to prove useful in the war against the Reapers for the Quarians; who non the less contribute admirably to the galactic war effort.

Modifié par Guanxi, 12 août 2011 - 10:16 .

[Clonedzero]

randomchasegurney wrote...

Btw Reapers have a geth hack ready to go anyway that would control all geth and allow for the geth to remain as good a combat as ever. Just thought to point it out.

no they dont. sovereign did. probably because he's been active in the galaxy the last couple hundred years preparing for his rush on the citadel. he gave the hack to the heretic geth, then he died. then we kill / reprogram the heretic geth and delete the hack.

so i dunno why the other reapers would have a hack like that randomly unless sovereign like...emailed it to them? i dunno lol

[azerSheppard]

randomchasegurney wrote...

azerSheppard wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

All of this of-course ignores the fact that the quarians where covering their ass from illigal reasearch and slavery.

points out fact.

So all the quarians were punished 300 years later (correct me if I'm wrong) their children are still being punished.
What I gather from this is...
Quarians are wrong for illegal research (if illegal at the time)
Geth are victims turned violent (due to isolationism made it impossible for quarians or anyone else to make contact and negotiate)
Council are guilty of punishing an entire race for the crimes of the few (who are also long dead) and should now have given a chance for quarians to recover.
Shepard may be guilty of genocide (if you are forced to choose or decide to be a jerk)

Anything I miss?

All i'm saying is look at the scoreboard.

The Geth didn't start the war, and certainly don't want to continue it. They don't want to hurt organics.
The Quarians started the war, 1/3 want to eradicate them, 1/3 wants to enslave them, and 1/3 feels guilty about it.

I my books, if I have to make a choice with the above information, i'd side with the Geth.

The quarians aren't being punished, this is simply one of the many outcomes of war/ I'm not saying they got what was coming to them, i'm saying they should stop trying to kill off the Geth. 

[Saaziel]

randomchasegurney wrote...

Btw Reapers have a geth hack ready to go anyway that would control all geth and allow for the geth to remain as good a combat as ever. Just thought to point it out.

Only networked Geth.

Independent Geth would continue to run normally. One potentially effective strategy would be to construct Legion-like platforms and copy/paste programs. Each "Individual" platform would need to be hacked directly. Moreover it was a virus that was given/made by Nazara; we are unsure if the Reaper forces is even aware of the Geth, considering they were in Hibernation all this time.

Not that I'm dismissing your point. Simply crossing the "T's" and doting the "I's".

Edit: Got ninja'd

Modifié par Saaziel, 12 août 2011 - 10:15 .

[Goneaviking]

Tinted wrote...

Ok guys, think about it like this:

If Peace can no tbe had, then what are the options. We have the Quarians, who maintain an impressive Flotilla. These ships can provide transport for essential supplies, weapons, and possible escape for civilizations across the Galaxy.
On the other hand, we have the Geth, a machine race with impressive military might that is an known unkown. We do not understand their intentions and or motivations.

If Push came to Shove, I would side with the Quarians. The Geth have been overwritten once, and I bet they can be overwritten again. It simply isn't like indoctronatiing biological sentients, due to the fact that infecting one isn't essentially infecting the whole. Remember, a simple rewrite could be the end of the Geth. If given a chance, I would perfer to destroy the Geth.

Quarians are obsessive ideologues and only care about what they want. After being driven from their homeworlds they refused resettle and instead decided to remain on their fleet until they had the opportunity to go back and finish what they began when they tried to wipe out the geth the first time. Even after they destroyed their own immune systems they refused to resettle which would have given them the time and opportunity to fix themselves up and become a non-hated non-gypsy analog.

Nope, they want their old worlds back and they want to repeat their old mistakes and this time they'll get it right despite doing the same things over again.

I'll side with the Geth, maybe even if mutual co-existence is possible.

[Blooddrunk1004]

Geth. More advanced, better weapons and overall they are by far the most advanced species (aside from Reapers)
As for Tali vs Legion "bros before hoe's"

[CMDR Locke]

Kal'Reeger to Shepard "I don't want to alarm you, but you have a Geth standing right behind you."

Yup Quarians shoot first and never think about anything other than shooting Geth. And, this was on a planet where herp derp they're all fighting Geth.

[azerSheppard]

Goneaviking wrote...

Tinted wrote...

Ok guys, think about it like this:

If Peace can no tbe had, then what are the options. We have the Quarians, who maintain an impressive Flotilla. These ships can provide transport for essential supplies, weapons, and possible escape for civilizations across the Galaxy.
On the other hand, we have the Geth, a machine race with impressive military might that is an known unkown. We do not understand their intentions and or motivations.

If Push came to Shove, I would side with the Quarians. The Geth have been overwritten once, and I bet they can be overwritten again. It simply isn't like indoctronatiing biological sentients, due to the fact that infecting one isn't essentially infecting the whole. Remember, a simple rewrite could be the end of the Geth. If given a chance, I would perfer to destroy the Geth.

Quarians are obsessive ideologues and only care about what they want. After being driven from their homeworlds they refused resettle and instead decided to remain on their fleet until they had the opportunity to go back and finish what they began when they tried to wipe out the geth the first time. Even after they destroyed their own immune systems they refused to resettle which would have given them the time and opportunity to fix themselves up and become a non-hated non-gypsy analog.

Nope, they want their old worlds back and they want to repeat their old mistakes and this time they'll get it right despite doing the same things over again.

I'll side with the Geth, maybe even if mutual co-existence is possible.

Old Einstein said a little something about that i believe:P

[Clonedzero]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Kal'Reeger to Shepard "I don't want to alarm you, but you have a Geth standing right behind you."

Yup Quarians shoot first and never think about anything other than shooting Geth. And, this was on a planet where herp derp they're all fighting Geth.

oh. i didnt know this thread was about kal'reeger

[CMDR Locke]

Clonedzero wrote...

Quole wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Quole wrote...

Actually, it was their government that did.

oh damn, i wonder who their government was created to represent?

You realize how stupid you just sounded right? Not all Americans wanted their country to go to war with Iraq. Likewise, not all Germans agreed with Hitler.

stupid? how is that stupid? in a democracy as the quarians had. your government is chosen by the people, the people, THE PEOPLE.

just because the individual might disagree doesnt mean it was the people as a whole who decided on that.

americans do vote you know...

Americans don't actually elect anyone.  The electorial college does.  Your vote as a person is to let your state official know what percent of his state wants what.  Just because 90% of your state wants Joe Bob as President doesn't mean that's who your state will elect.  Your Governor could still choose Beth Anne.

Need proof look at Florida's choice in Gore vs Bush.

[Goneaviking]

randomchasegurney wrote...

So all the quarians were punished 300 years later (correct me if I'm wrong) their children are still being punished.
What I gather from this is...
[snip]
Council are guilty of punishing an entire race for the crimes of the few (who are also long dead) and should now have given a chance for quarians to recover.

Quarians aren't being punished, and the Council never punished all the quarians they simply evicted them from their embassy.

When Shepard suggests resettling to Tali she rejects it out of hand, she'd rather throw her entire species into a war they can't win than accept that they have some responsibility for their situation. No one stopped them from resettling, they've had centuries to find a habitable planet and make it their own but haven't done it... given that humanity has done it multiple times in the space of a generation suggests that it's an option they've specifically refused to consider.

[CMDR Locke]

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Kal'Reeger to Shepard "I don't want to alarm you, but you have a Geth standing right behind you."

Yup Quarians shoot first and never think about anything other than shooting Geth. And, this was on a planet where herp derp they're all fighting Geth.

oh. i didnt know this thread was about kal'reeger

I didn't know it was about Legion either but it's cool we use him to argue for the Geth?  But god forbid we use Quarians to prove they're not all shoot first genocidal maniacs and I get this reply?

[Clonedzero]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Kal'Reeger to Shepard "I don't want to alarm you, but you have a Geth standing right behind you."

Yup Quarians shoot first and never think about anything other than shooting Geth. And, this was on a planet where herp derp they're all fighting Geth.

oh. i didnt know this thread was about kal'reeger

I didn't know it was about Legion either but it's cool we use him to argue for the Geth?  But god forbid we use Quarians to prove they're not all shoot first genocidal maniacs and I get this reply?

legion has been our only communication with the peaceful geth.

kal'reeger is a single soldier with no political power at all.

you'd be better off using koris as an example.

[CMDR Locke]

Goneaviking wrote...

randomchasegurney wrote...

So all the quarians were punished 300 years later (correct me if I'm wrong) their children are still being punished.
What I gather from this is...
[snip]
Council are guilty of punishing an entire race for the crimes of the few (who are also long dead) and should now have given a chance for quarians to recover.

Quarians aren't being punished, and the Council never punished all the quarians they simply evicted them from their embassy.

When Shepard suggests resettling to Tali she rejects it out of hand, she'd rather throw her entire species into a war they can't win than accept that they have some responsibility for their situation. No one stopped them from resettling, they've had centuries to find a habitable planet and make it their own but haven't done it... given that humanity has done it multiple times in the space of a generation suggests that it's an option they've specifically refused to consider.

Humans didn't need to spend 600 years acclimizing to a new homeworld like the Quarian would.  Tali explains this as well.

So had the Quarians found a new homeworld on day one of their exile they'd still need 300 more years before it'd habitable really.  Yeah that's a hell of a choice.  America isn't even 300 years old yet.

[Skullheart]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Kal'Reeger to Shepard "I don't want to alarm you, but you have a Geth standing right behind you."

Yup Quarians shoot first and never think about anything other than shooting Geth. And, this was on a planet where herp derp they're all fighting Geth.

Tali shooted Legion >_<



And she shoots inside the ship when you side with Legion....

[azerSheppard]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Kal'Reeger to Shepard "I don't want to alarm you, but you have a Geth standing right behind you."

Yup Quarians shoot first and never think about anything other than shooting Geth. And, this was on a planet where herp derp they're all fighting Geth.

oh. i didnt know this thread was about kal'reeger

I didn't know it was about Legion either but it's cool we use him to argue for the Geth?  But god forbid we use Quarians to prove they're not all shoot first genocidal maniacs and I get this reply?

Legion = The Geth
Kal Reeger =/= The Quarians


Any consensus Legion reaches would be very much the same the other platform would reach given the same data. If need be he can ftl com and reach a consensus with more platforms containing get.

[CMDR Locke]

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

Kal'Reeger to Shepard "I don't want to alarm you, but you have a Geth standing right behind you."

Yup Quarians shoot first and never think about anything other than shooting Geth. And, this was on a planet where herp derp they're all fighting Geth.

oh. i didnt know this thread was about kal'reeger

I didn't know it was about Legion either but it's cool we use him to argue for the Geth?  But god forbid we use Quarians to prove they're not all shoot first genocidal maniacs and I get this reply?

legion has been our only communication with the peaceful geth.

kal'reeger is a single soldier with no political power at all.

you'd be better off using koris as an example.

How do we know Legion has any political power?  How do we know the Geth can come to a conesus pertaining to peace?  Why would ANY RATIONAL human ever take the opinion of ONE :sentient: over the opinion of MILLIONS of sentients?

People that play Mass Effect are completely biased.  They choose Geth because of the inclusion of ONE mobile platform that they think is cool.  The Quarian are much better fleshed out, as a race than the Geth are.  In fact playing Mass Effect I have killed hundreds of Geth, and ZERO Quarian.

Yet One Geth shows up wearing my old armor and kills 2 husks and I should believe everything it tells me?

Come on people, you can't be this stupid.