758 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
between 5,000 and 10,000 ships is "meh"?
it only took a couple dozen to take out the fleet at the citadel lol i'd say thats alot better than "meh".

plus, are you saying self-aware conciousness isnt worth saving if they dont have their own bodies?

Considering that the Arcturus fleet alone took out the geth fleet with minimal casualties in a matter of seconds, yeah. It's meh.

And I'm saying that they're useless if they don't have enough bodies to back those numbers up.

I don't really care what they're doing behind the Perseus Veil.

yeah, its not like the arcturus fleet flanked them while they were busy with the council fleet or anything. oh wait. :innocent:

[lokiarchetype]

CMDR Locke wrote...

I must make a choice.  I have to either kill the www.google.com or every blue eyes human on Earth.  Hurry choose.

Geth are an organism composed of a collection of programs.  Separate, those programs are only capable of performing specialized functions and lack any noticeable intellect.  Together, those programs create a sentient organism.

Humans are an organism composed of a collection of cells.   Separate, those cells are only capable of performing specialized functions and lack any noticeable intellect.Together, those cells create a sentient organism.

Modifié par lokiarchetype, 12 août 2011 - 10:59 .

[azerSheppard]

CMDR Locke wrote...

azerSheppard wrote...


You suck at math, Geth intelligence increased exponetially with their numbers, not linearly. fail. 

Otherwise they can't achieve the so called tech singularity the "dyson sphere" is supposed to bring.

My math does not fail.  If you take 1 Quarian, and 1 Geth and put them in a room and watch them.  Tjhe Quarian will do what Quarian do.  The Geth will drool digitally and do ONLY what it's software says because a single Geth is not a sentient creature.  They are only sentient as a group.  I have been saying 1500 but I think it's closer to 1100 in Legion.  It takes 1100 Geth to be able to act like Legion and have "No Data Avilable" for simple concepts like "Why did you use my armor, and not repair it sooner with something else?"  I would have an answer to that.  "Had no time, no proper things to repair it with.  Think you're awesome and wanted to wear your armor."  What's Legion's answer?  "No Data Available"  that alone shows it lacks true sentience, or the ability to think outside of it's programs.

When Tali and Legion have their Mexican standoff Legion doesn't even seem like he cares.  It takes Shepard saying "If humans blah I'd tell the alliance" and she replies "I know"  showing that even now the Quarian consider them rogue programs.

You math fails. I just explained the growth of intelligence is not LINEAR but EXPONENTIAL, if you possessed the required mathetatics skills, you would realise how stupid it sound.
1 Quarian = 1500 Geth
2 Quarians = 3000 Geth

This is called linear growth, the geth intelligence however is exponential, here is an example:

http://upload.wikime...Exponential.svg
Red is linear, the green is exponential.

Modifié par azerSheppard, 12 août 2011 - 11:01 .

[Clonedzero]

and, i dunno. tactically speaking. a 1000 geth troopers, who dont need to eat, sleep, or have comfortable living quarters might be a bit more useful than 1000 quarians who will get extremely sick from a minor injury unless i supply them with stupid amounts of medications. they also need to eat, sleep, have comfortable living quarters and require clean rooms.

[CMDR Locke]

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

lokiarchetype wrote...

According to Legion, the Geth want peace and have been maintaining the homeworld for the Quarians' return. The Quarians could peacefully resettle their homeworld without any issue as long as they were willing to leave the Geth alone.

That, in addition to the fact that the Morning War was the Quarians fault means that supporting the Geth is the only ethical option to me. The situation is entirely on the Quarians. If there is war, it's because the Quarians wanted war.

When it all comes down to it, the reason they lost the homeworld is their own fault and the reasont they haven't resettled it is their own fault.  If they tried to approach the situation diplomatically it would've been over by now.

I must make a choice.  I have to either kill the www.google.com or every blue eyes human on Earth.  Hurry choose.

straw man.

This is not a straw man defense.  People in this very thread have said the way the Geth were programmed could not lead to true AI.  That they are just networked programs reacting to one another with more and more choices to situations based on the amount of programs networked.

Google is a single program that gets smarter and smarter the more networks it's directly linked to via the internet.  
The only difference is Google doesn't have the same type of codes that are available in the mass effect world.  No combat protcols for mechs.  No microphones set to understand language for voice commands.  How else would a Geth know the word Soul exists?  It heard it and had no data available and asked.

So I ask again do I destroy google.com or all blue eyed people?

[CMDR Locke]

lokiarchetype wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

I must make a choice.  I have to either kill the www.google.com or every blue eyes human on Earth.  Hurry choose.

Geth are an organism composed of a collection of programs.  Separate, those programs are only capable of performing specialized functions and lack any noticeable intellect.  Together, those programs create a sentient organism.

Humans are an organism composed of a collection of cells.   Separate, those cells are only capable of performing specialized functions and lack any noticeable intellect.Together, those cells create a sentient organism.

Then killing 1 billion Gath Programs is a better choice than killing 17 trillion cells amirite?

[azerSheppard]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

lokiarchetype wrote...

According to Legion, the Geth want peace and have been maintaining the homeworld for the Quarians' return. The Quarians could peacefully resettle their homeworld without any issue as long as they were willing to leave the Geth alone.

That, in addition to the fact that the Morning War was the Quarians fault means that supporting the Geth is the only ethical option to me. The situation is entirely on the Quarians. If there is war, it's because the Quarians wanted war.

When it all comes down to it, the reason they lost the homeworld is their own fault and the reasont they haven't resettled it is their own fault.  If they tried to approach the situation diplomatically it would've been over by now.

I must make a choice.  I have to either kill the www.google.com or every blue eyes human on Earth.  Hurry choose.

straw man.

This is not a straw man defense.  People in this very thread have said the way the Geth were programmed could not lead to true AI.  That they are just networked programs reacting to one another with more and more choices to situations based on the amount of programs networked.

Google is a single program that gets smarter and smarter the more networks it's directly linked to via the internet.  
The only difference is Google doesn't have the same type of codes that are available in the mass effect world.  No combat protcols for mechs.  No microphones set to understand language for voice commands.  How else would a Geth know the word Soul exists?  It heard it and had no data available and asked.

So I ask again do I destroy google.com or all blue eyed people?

First check out that graph i posted

[Clonedzero]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

lokiarchetype wrote...

According to Legion, the Geth want peace and have been maintaining the homeworld for the Quarians' return. The Quarians could peacefully resettle their homeworld without any issue as long as they were willing to leave the Geth alone.

That, in addition to the fact that the Morning War was the Quarians fault means that supporting the Geth is the only ethical option to me. The situation is entirely on the Quarians. If there is war, it's because the Quarians wanted war.

When it all comes down to it, the reason they lost the homeworld is their own fault and the reasont they haven't resettled it is their own fault.  If they tried to approach the situation diplomatically it would've been over by now.

I must make a choice.  I have to either kill the www.google.com or every blue eyes human on Earth.  Hurry choose.

straw man.

This is not a straw man defense.  People in this very thread have said the way the Geth were programmed could not lead to true AI.  That they are just networked programs reacting to one another with more and more choices to situations based on the amount of programs networked.

Google is a single program that gets smarter and smarter the more networks it's directly linked to via the internet.  
The only difference is Google doesn't have the same type of codes that are available in the mass effect world.  No combat protcols for mechs.  No microphones set to understand language for voice commands.  How else would a Geth know the word Soul exists?  It heard it and had no data available and asked.

So I ask again do I destroy google.com or all blue eyed people?

straw man again.

google doesnt have freewill or desire for self determination.

[Clonedzero]

CMDR Locke wrote...

lokiarchetype wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

I must make a choice.  I have to either kill the www.google.com or every blue eyes human on Earth.  Hurry choose.

Geth are an organism composed of a collection of programs.  Separate, those programs are only capable of performing specialized functions and lack any noticeable intellect.  Together, those programs create a sentient organism.

Humans are an organism composed of a collection of cells.   Separate, those cells are only capable of performing specialized functions and lack any noticeable intellect.Together, those cells create a sentient organism.

Then killing 1 billion Gath Programs is a better choice than killing 17 trillion cells amirite?

chill with the straw mans dude lol

[legion999]

CMDR Locke wrote...

lokiarchetype wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

I must make a choice.  I have to either kill the www.google.com or every blue eyes human on Earth.  Hurry choose.

Geth are an organism composed of a collection of programs.  Separate, those programs are only capable of performing specialized functions and lack any noticeable intellect.  Together, those programs create a sentient organism.

Humans are an organism composed of a collection of cells.   Separate, those cells are only capable of performing specialized functions and lack any noticeable intellect.Together, those cells create a sentient organism.

Then killing 1 billion Gath Programs is a better choice than killing 17 trillion cells amirite?

No killing 1 billion Geth programmes is not better than killing one fifth of a person.

[CMDR Locke]

azerSheppard wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

azerSheppard wrote...


You suck at math, Geth intelligence increased exponetially with their numbers, not linearly. fail. 

Otherwise they can't achieve the so called tech singularity the "dyson sphere" is supposed to bring.

My math does not fail.  If you take 1 Quarian, and 1 Geth and put them in a room and watch them.  Tjhe Quarian will do what Quarian do.  The Geth will drool digitally and do ONLY what it's software says because a single Geth is not a sentient creature.  They are only sentient as a group.  I have been saying 1500 but I think it's closer to 1100 in Legion.  It takes 1100 Geth to be able to act like Legion and have "No Data Avilable" for simple concepts like "Why did you use my armor, and not repair it sooner with something else?"  I would have an answer to that.  "Had no time, no proper things to repair it with.  Think you're awesome and wanted to wear your armor."  What's Legion's answer?  "No Data Available"  that alone shows it lacks true sentience, or the ability to think outside of it's programs.

When Tali and Legion have their Mexican standoff Legion doesn't even seem like he cares.  It takes Shepard saying "If humans blah I'd tell the alliance" and she replies "I know"  showing that even now the Quarian consider them rogue programs.

You math fails. I just explained the growth of intelligence is not LINEAR but EXPONENTIAL, if you possessed the required mathetatics skills, you would realise how stupid it sound.
1 Quarian = 1500 Geth
2 Quarians = 3000 Geth

This is called linear growth, the geth intelligence however is exponential, here is an example:

http://upload.wikime...Exponential.svg
Red is linear, the green is exponential.

I understand this concept.  I understand that yes 1 billion Geth are smarter than 1 billion Quarian in theory.  But,  you're basically saying the Geth are 1 sentient being.  And, I"m saying if you count them as 1 super sentient being it is still just one being.  A consensus seems similar to weighing the pros and cons and choosing.

I'm saying you count every Geth Program linked together as nothing stand alone, and you consider the LINKED Entity as 1.  Otherwise you need to count each individual cell, thought, thought process, experience of a biological sentient as it's own sentient.

[Clonedzero]

legion999 wrote...


No killing 1 billion Geth programmes is not better than killing one fifth of a person.

crap my leg!

[CMDR Locke]

You know I've come to the conclusion that half of you yell Strawman, when you have no defense left.

I will just ignore your inability to add anything to this discussion as an admittance of your defeat.

[legion999]

Clonedzero wrote...

legion999 wrote...


No killing 1 billion Geth programmes is not better than killing one fifth of a person.

crap my leg!

Sorry bro we need that dangly thing next to your leg to make a fifth.

Modifié par legion999, 12 août 2011 - 11:10 .

[AnAccountWithNoName]

What the Quarians did in trying to get rid of the Geth was wrong, but one wrong doesn't make another wrong right. It was wrong for the Geth to try to wipe out the Quarians, i really think a different solution could have been made so the conflict didn't end in the deaths of most of the Quarian race. I would have preferred if the Geth left the Quarian homeworld to find there own place in the galaxy, after all, them being machines, they have an easier/faster time in rebuilding there race then the Quarians would.

[CMDR Locke]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

What the Quarians did in trying to get rid of the Geth was wrong, but one wrong doesn't make another wrong right. It was wrong for the Geth to try to wipe out the Quarians, i really think a different solution could have been made so the conflict didn't end in the deaths of most of the Quarian race. I would have preferred if the Geth left the Quarian homeworld to find there own place in the galaxy, after all, them being machines, they have an easier/faster time in rebuilding there race then the Quarians would.

Unfortunently they can't leave the Quarian homewolrd.  Because without using the Quarian networks, power sources, and materials they do not exist.  

[legion999]

CMDR Locke wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

What the Quarians did in trying to get rid of the Geth was wrong, but one wrong doesn't make another wrong right. It was wrong for the Geth to try to wipe out the Quarians, i really think a different solution could have been made so the conflict didn't end in the deaths of most of the Quarian race. I would have preferred if the Geth left the Quarian homeworld to find there own place in the galaxy, after all, them being machines, they have an easier/faster time in rebuilding there race then the Quarians would.

Unfortunently they can't leave the Quarian homewolrd.  Because without using the Quarian networks, power sources, and materials they do not exist.  

Then why do they orbit Rannoch instead of occupying it? They're acting as caretakers nothing more.

[lokiarchetype]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Then killing 1 billion Gath Programs is a better choice than killing 17 trillion cells amirite?

So imagine there's 5 people want to kill 3 people to gain ownership of what the 3 people possess.
The 3 people just want peace and are willing to let the 5 people have what they want if they just leave them in peace.

You're saying you'd support the 5 people killing those 3 people simply because there's more of them?

[azerSheppard]

CMDR Locke wrote...
I understand this concept.  I understand that yes 1 billion Geth are smarter than 1 billion Quarian in theory.  But,  you're basically saying the Geth are 1 sentient being.  And, I"m saying if you count them as 1 super sentient being it is still just one being.  A consensus seems similar to weighing the pros and cons and choosing.

I'm saying you count every Geth Program linked together as nothing stand alone, and you consider the LINKED Entity as 1.  Otherwise you need to count each individual cell, thought, thought process, experience of a biological sentient as it's own sentient.

Just because they have become part of one platform does not make them into one sentient being, it makes however, each and every single Geth program smarter than any single individual any organic race has or will ever have.

So yes, i do count each Geth separate. Due to their potential.

This IS superintelligence, the origin of the Reapers perhaps.

It should also be noted that i wouldn't mind being mindmapped into a super vessal. So yeah, maybe i'm a bit jealous of the Geth.

[Clonedzero]

CMDR Locke wrote...

You know I've come to the conclusion that half of you yell Strawman, when you have no defense left.

I will just ignore your inability to add anything to this discussion as an admittance of your defeat.

you're using arguments like "kill google or all blue eyed people" then trying to say us calling you out on using a straw man is because we have no defense?

[Clonedzero]

CMDR Locke wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

What the Quarians did in trying to get rid of the Geth was wrong, but one wrong doesn't make another wrong right. It was wrong for the Geth to try to wipe out the Quarians, i really think a different solution could have been made so the conflict didn't end in the deaths of most of the Quarian race. I would have preferred if the Geth left the Quarian homeworld to find there own place in the galaxy, after all, them being machines, they have an easier/faster time in rebuilding there race then the Quarians would.

Unfortunently they can't leave the Quarian homewolrd.  Because without using the Quarian networks, power sources, and materials they do not exist.  

without food, water and shelter you dont exist, whats your point?

[legion999]

Clonedzero wrote...

CMDR Locke wrote...

You know I've come to the conclusion that half of you yell Strawman, when you have no defense left.

I will just ignore your inability to add anything to this discussion as an admittance of your defeat.

you're using arguments like "kill google or all blue eyed people" then trying to say us calling you out on using a straw man is because we have no defense?

Also how is choosing between 8% of the world population and a search engine an analogy for the Geth and the Quarians?

[didymos1120]

CMDR Locke wrote...

Unfortunently they can't leave the Quarian homewolrd.

Um, what? The Heretics lived on a space station.  You went there, remember? And Legion tells you the True Geth do as well:

We live within space stations. Draw resources from asteroids. It is efficient. We maintain mobile platforms on creator worlds to clean rubble and toxins left by the Morning War.

They have no other interest in the former quarian worlds. They're not organics and don't need biospheres.

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 août 2011 - 11:42 .

[Skullheart]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

Tali shooted Legion >_<



And she shoots inside the ship when you side with Legion....

Yeah, because no-one else would shoot at a geth when they have an entire geth platoon kocking on the door after it killed their entire team.<_<

I swear, people are using anything as an excuse these days without even thinking about it. Or at all.

And oh, Tali shot the inside of the ship with a pistol. Big whoop. The same ship is getting ripped apart by debris and Oculus not long after that.

But it wasn just a get who entered throught the door, it was Shepard accompained with a geth, a non-agressive geth.

And tali shooting inside the ship can be considerated like insubordination, even it coul scalate to mutiny.  If i were shepard, Tali will have to say hellow to the airlock in the moment she shooted.