316 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

You know, your wishful thinking doesn't bother me.

It's the fact that it is directed at a national socialist survivalist group that believes that humans have by right, a superior position over aliens, and try to contribute to their cause by torturing children and relatives, as well as killing admirals and soldiers.

And consider the rachni an inferior race, btw.

Phaedon wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

the TIM - hitler comparison holds no merit.

comparing genocide to unethical research? thats alittle extreme. pretty sure genocide is WAYYYYYYY worse.

also dont think cerberus wants to commit genocide or ever has.

Thank you guys.

Now we have people comparing TIM to Hitler.

I did tell you not to pull the NSDAP argument card.

Goodbye thread, you were uninteresting while you lasted.

LOL, I guess.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 août 2011 - 10:08 .

[Phaedon]

I have no problem with you guessing mate. I have a problem with you not reading.

Phaedon wrote...

Bad King wrote...
The only reason you describe TIM as a National Socialist is because it is associated with the attrocities committed by Germany in World War 2 and thus is a way of attacking Cerberus. Had Hitler never risen to power and those attrocities had never happened, you would probably have found another label to place on Cerberus.

In other words you started it!

Yeah, I would never point out Hitler's atrocities to cause shock and horror. Some killed more than that psycho did anyway.

The fact that they are an openly violent criminal group that happens to be supremacist, is definitely enough for me to find actual support to them (and not just in roleplaying, or siding with them because it's a game, that's perfectly fine) absolutely despicable. It just happens that the very rightful thing is one of the major factors that proves the fact that these supremacy elements exist in Cerberus.

As Homeless Gal said, some people here are nuts.

Phaedon wrote...

Are you two seriously suggesting that a single political party that happens to support that ideology at a later date of its foundation establishes some laws, and that by that way defines the ideology which they supported earlier on, which is also supported by other groups outside Germany?

EDIT:
And good job at starting a sh*tstorm by the rule of Godwin. That's exactly what I wanted to avoid. Now every idiot will pop up and cry about TIM not being the same with one person who supported that particular ideology.

[TMA LIVE]

One theory I have that Cerberus might actually be working against the Reapers is that they could be working for them in order to get closer to them, double agent style. And the closer they get, the more info and damage on the inside they can do.

[Spartanburger]

Anyways, I have theorized that we may gain Cerberus as an ally later on in the game. This can work out for both for Cerberus haters and Cerberus lapdogs.

See, if TIM is working for the Reapers and you kill him, that leaves a large corporation without a leader. If Miranda is alive in ME3 then you could put her in TIM's place and depending on your actions towards her in ME2 and the early parts of ME3, she could either continue down the Humanity>All ideal or change Cerberus into a operation for multiple races.
As she is loyal to Shepard, Cerberus essentially becomes an ally.


That's my idea.

[didymos1120]

Phaedon wrote...

The fact that although they discovered that their intelligence was higher than expected but still wanted to go ahead and use them as weapons does not make things better. It makes them significantly  worse.
 

No, not what happened.  They discovered their intelligence and decided they couldn't be used. The "should have treated them like POW's" thing isn't a recommendation, it's a way of saying "We had no @#$%ing clue what we were getting into."  The real recommendation is what's said at the end of the final log: "[M]y advice is: Screw the rachni. They're too smart.  Use one of the other projects."

And all Miranda does in ME2 is explain is what they were thinking when they first started working with them. She's not saying they should have kept going. Why is this so hard to understand?

So, what you are saying that Cerberus could have potentially not be racist originally, but happenned to be later on anyway?

I'm saying that declaring the initial attitude towards the rachni "racist" makes no sense because they were working off bad information: the mistaken belief warriors were just dumb animals that were controlled like puppets by some "master control unit", not intelligent individuals. If they had continued working with them after learning that, yeah: that would have been bad. But they didn't do that.

[Clonedzero]

Phaedon wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

the TIM - hitler comparison holds no merit.

comparing genocide to unethical research? thats alittle extreme. pretty sure genocide is WAYYYYYYY worse.

also dont think cerberus wants to commit genocide or ever has.

Thank you guys.

Now we have people comparing TIM to Hitler.


I did tell you not to pull the NSDAP argument card.


Goodbye thread, you were uninteresting while you lasted.

cool dude, you talk about hitler in your posts but when i point out how ridiuclous it is, its suddenly jumping the shark?

[Phaedon]

Yes, because national socialism = Hitler. Bravo.
Keep on dismissing supremacists as "okay" because they are not Hitler, when I specifically explain why the whole comparison achieves nothing.

EDIT: Maybe getting away from an uncomfortable conversation for some, I suppose. At least that means that they do feel some guilt.

Modifié par Phaedon, 12 août 2011 - 10:28 .

[Janchito]

Dudes, I asked you if cerberus can be an ally in ME3 and you ended up talking about hitler, I`m no expert but thats waay off the topic

Modifié par Janchito, 12 août 2011 - 10:32 .

[Phaedon]

didymos1120 wrote...
No, not what happened.  They discovered their intelligence and decided they couldn't be used. The "should have treated them like POW's" thing isn't a recommendation, it's a way of saying "We had no @#$%ing clue what we were getting into."  The real recommendation is what's said at the end of the final log: "[M]y advice is: Screw the rachni. They're too smart.  Use one of the other projects."

This repeats my point and adds nothing else to it, I don't see how it's an argument.

At what point does she say that she wouldn't use the rachni, regardless of intelligence or not, if she could? 

And all Miranda does in ME2 is explain is what they were thinking when they first started working with them. She's not saying they should have kept going. Why is this so hard to understand?

It's not hard to understand. That's the problem.
She fully justifies the actions of Cerberus, even after the revelation about the intelligence of the rachni. Not only that, at no point does she suggest that they shouldn't keep on doing what they would. Cerberus already has that mentality. If anything, the fact that she is coming up with a scenario, after the events of the failed project and the revelation of the rachni's intelligence (In fact, she is referring to the Battle of the Citadel), is quite incriminating?

I'm saying that declaring the initial attitude towards the rachni "racist" makes no sense because they were working off bad information: the mistaken belief warriors were just dumb animals that were controlled like puppets by some "master control unit", not intelligent individuals. If they had continued working with them after learning that, yeah: that would have been bad. But they didn't do that.

Yes, did you read what you just quoted from that scientist? Why they stopped the project?

(For starters the prisoners had escaped)

[Bad King]

Phaedon wrote...

Yes, because national socialism = Hitler. Bravo.
Keep on dismissing supremacists as "okay" because they are not Hitler, when I specifically explain why the whole comparison achieves nothing.

Phaedon wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...
Oh boy, here we go! More of these asinine Hitler comparisons.

It's
a perfectly good comparison, and the fact that people have started
comparing him to Hitler, means that they have created strong negative
feelings towards him, and that's what BioWare wants.

Besides, "Our rightful place on the stars" and "We want to ensure human domination" don't translate very well.

Both Hitler and Harper are maciavellian.

http://social.biowar...index/7902509/4

Modifié par Bad King, 12 août 2011 - 10:35 .

[Seboist]

That his detractors are grasping at straws by trying to slander him by comparing him to Hitler shows that TIM is doing some good.

[Clonedzero]

Janchito wrote...

Dudes, I asked you if cerberus can be an ally in ME3 and you ended up talking about hitler, I`m no expert but thats waay off the topic

thats what i was saying lol

[Phaedon]

I am struggling to see a point in your post, Bad?

I didn't bring up Hitler here for the same reason that I stated, to not create a fuss like the other thread. I assume that you want to accomplish the exact opposite? It sure seems like it.

As Dean pointed out in the thread that you linked, there are several differences in both characters. They are definitely not identical. But the comparison is valid. Just as a comparison with "The Prince". They share the same morality.

But for the record, I thought that you were the one that didn't want to bring the flames? The one who started it?

Kind of self-contradictive that is.

[Bad King]

Janchito wrote...

Dudes, I asked you if cerberus can be an ally in ME3 and you ended up talking about hitler, I`m no expert but thats waay off the topic

Phaedon started it, he invaded Poland!

/end Faulty Towers reference.

[Phaedon]

Seboist wrote...

That his detractors are grasping at straws by trying to slander him by comparing him to Hitler shows that TIM is doing some good.

Grasping at straws? You are openly supporting a supremacist group.

[Seboist]

Phaedon wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That his detractors are grasping at straws by trying to slander him by comparing him to Hitler shows that TIM is doing some good.

Grasping at straws? You are openly supporting a supremacist group.

It's a human survivalist group. Get your facts straight.

[Phaedon]

Bad King wrote...
he invaded Poland!

There you go. You turn a discussion about Cerberus being a supremacist group and bring in Hitler (and TIM) in order to evade the original argument.

If you can't prove your point, don't try changing the topic next time. A friendly tip.

[marshalleck]

woohoo what's up guys I heard there's national socialism in this thread? kick ass

[Phaedon]

Seboist wrote...
It's a human survivalist group. Get your facts straight.

Nope.

Their cause is to ascend humanity to its rightful place. Read Evolution and Ascension.
Somehow you have a better source?

[Sylvianus]

Seboist wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That his detractors are grasping at straws by trying to slander him by comparing him to Hitler shows that TIM is doing some good.

Grasping at straws? You are openly supporting a supremacist group.

It's a human survivalist group. Get your facts straight.

The both people. A human survivalist and supremacist group.

[marshalleck]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Grasping at straws? You are openly supporting a supremacist group.

Why do you feel this is a bad thing?

 Because humans are bad and naughty, and should all be punished!

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 août 2011 - 10:47 .

[Bad King]

Phaedon wrote...

Bad King wrote...
he invaded Poland!

There you go. You turn a discussion about Cerberus being a supremacist group and bring in Hitler (and TIM) in order to evade the original argument.

If you can't prove your point, don't try changing the topic next time. A friendly tip.

Didn't get the reference? Nevermind.

But Cerberus are not National Socialists, and you have yet to provide evidence that they are other than claims that 'they want to dominate teh alienz'. But as the OP said, this discussion is going off-topic so perhaps it should be continued eleswhere.

Modifié par Bad King, 12 août 2011 - 10:48 .

[Phaedon]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Why do you feel this is a bad thing?

You want me to be honest?

You won't like it, but I'll go ahead.

Anyone who doesn't support equality of any form is in my book an imbecile, and  a terrible person.
They have no place in modern society and have been, for millenia, the creators of wars, disputes, etc.

The only single thing that they have accomplished is fanatism and sheding blood.

I value life and critical thinking, not shutting your eyes and ears and trying to kill your neighbor because they are different.