316 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Grasping at straws? You are openly supporting a supremacist group.

Why do you feel this is a bad thing?

Because it is. Supremacy isn't good if it's at the expense of others.

So it's okay if it's just a natural consequence of biology? 

[Someone With Mass]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Because it is. Supremacy isn't good if it's at the expense of others.

And since Cerberus loves to kill their own staff by the hundreds during every project...

[Seboist]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Grasping at straws? You are openly supporting a supremacist group.

Why do you feel this is a bad thing?

Because it is. Supremacy isn't good if it's at the expense of others.

It's not at the expense of others.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
Because humans are bad and naughty, and should all be punished!

Excuse me.


Are you really defending supremacy now, mars?

[Sylvianus]

Cerberus = National socialism ?

I feel that the criticism against Cerberus are sometimes not very rational, and sometimes more based on an emotional hatred. I do not like Cerberus, but sometimes when I see explanations of its opponents, it's scary.

The belief of Cerberus is a reflection of nationalism, as from 1880 to 1914. Where  european people still believed in the superiority of their race.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 août 2011 - 10:52 .

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
So it's okay if it's just a natural consequence of biology? 

Biological supremacy? Keep telling yourself that.

Maybe you will convince yourself one day that you are worth more than everyone else.


And last time I checked collective empathy was a natural consequence, but whatever.

Modifié par Phaedon, 12 août 2011 - 10:53 .

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Because humans are bad and naughty, and should all be punished!

Excuse me.


Are you really defending supremacy now, mars?

I'm rejecting your imaginary, extremist notion of equality, which dilutes the awesome variety of human culture,  experience, and potential to a muddy grey soup. Your "equality" is not manifested in nature. Some people are smarter than others, stronger than others, more creative than others, etc. etc. This is not a bad thing. It's not a good thing. It just is.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 août 2011 - 10:56 .

[Phaedon]

Sylvianus wrote...

Cerberus = National socialism ?

I feel that the criticism against Cerberus are sometimes not very rational, and sometimes more based on an emotional hatred. I do not like Cerberus, but sometimes when I see explanations of its opponents, it's scary.

The belief of Cerberus is a reflection of nationalism, as from 1880 to 1914. Where  european people still believed in the superiority of their race.

The incidental or rigtheous one?

I consider national socialism to be the ideology that considers a certain race "rightfully" (due to many factors) superior to another, as opposed to generic ultranationalism which relies more on unwritten virtues of the nation to boost ethnocenteric fanatism.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
I'm rejecting your imaginary, extremist notion of equality, which dilutes the awesome variety of human culture,  experience, and potential to a muddy grey soup. Your "equality" is not manifested in nature. Some people are smarter than others, stronger than others, more creative than others, etc. etc. This is not a bad thing. It's not a good thing. It just is.

So, in a few words, you are.

And I call BS on it, a) because you contradict yourself. You speak about variety in skills, which alone wouldn't result to Person A being better than Person B, because there are multiple skills which different persons are good at.

You fail to recognize the very basic notion of a (human) right.

These are kind of the things all people are entitled to, regardless of race, occupation, sex, age, etc.

You being able to kill more boars than Person B or being better at math, than Person B does no make you superior, or entitled to different or more rights.

[marshalleck]

"You being able to kill more boars than Person B or being better at math, than Person B does no make you superior, or entitled to different or more rights."

I never said it does. It does make me better at doing calculus while killing boars than you, however.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 août 2011 - 11:01 .

[Phaedon]

And I may be better at solving practical problems or being more adept with technology. The same variety is the one that doesn't allow definite superiority. The perfect man doesn't exist, and therefore, putting people on a varying scale of superiority based on some random skill is retarded.

We all say dumb things (I have said about 20 today, I am counting) but think before you support racial supremacy.

[marshalleck]

 LOL, I never said anything about racial superiority. You're arguing with your imagination. No wonder you hate Cerberus so much, you project all your worst fears onto them and imagine them saying and doing things that never actually happen.

At least you're not really alone in this. Many people around the BSN like to scapegoat Cerberus as being space-****s, so they can feel all morally superior.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 août 2011 - 11:06 .

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...

 LOL, I never said anything about racial superiority. You're arguing with your imagination. No wonder you hate Cerberus so much, you project all your worst fears onto them and imagine them saying and doing things that never actually happen.

That's great. You weren't ironic towards a supremacist group being....a bad thing (http://social.biowar...95126/5#8097105) or consider equality to be an extremist notion (http://social.biowar...95126/6#8097176).

The rest is a weak attempt at presenting an argument. TIM does consider humanity to have a rightful place in the galaxy, I have already showed the sources. Which happens to be way above the aliens of course. I am starting to suspect that it may have something to do with his manifesto being accepted negatively and not having Cerberus initially recognized as a political group.

EDIT: Not that that Cerberus being supremacist would be the only problem of course. Supporting a group that endorses torture and murder of civilians and soldiers -way before the Reaper threat and completely unrelated to it- alone is all the reason that this stance is codemnable.

EDIT2: 

At least you're not really alone in this. Many people around the BSN like to scapegoat Cerberus as being space-****s, so they can feel all morally superior.

Pull your "moral kool aid card" elsewhere.
People dislike the torture of children and murder of soldiers because they feel that is wrong and that's because they are human. Not to feel morally superior.

Modifié par Phaedon, 12 août 2011 - 11:15 .

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

 LOL, I never said anything about racial superiority. You're arguing with your imagination. No wonder you hate Cerberus so much, you project all your worst fears onto them and imagine them saying and doing things that never actually happen.

That's great. You weren't ironic towards a supremacist group being....a bad thing (http://social.biowar...95126/5#8097105) or consider equality to be an extremist notion (http://social.biowar...95126/6#8097176).

1) I was making fun of people who hate humanity and want to blow it up. There are some around here, you know it as well as I. 

2) It's your extremist position of blind, dogmatic equality that I find repulsive. What you said was "Anyone who doesn't support equality of any form is in my book an imbecile, and  a terrible person." How is that not extreme? It's a blanket statement that labels any who disagree with you for any reason  "an imbecile, a terrible person." That's an extremely provincial attitude to take.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 août 2011 - 11:20 .

[Phaedon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Anyone who doesn't support equality of any form is in my book an imbecile, and  a terrible person.
They have no place in modern society and have been, for millenia, the creators of wars, disputes, etc.

Why do you feel this way?

I explain in the rest of my post, but anyway...

I will not explain why people who consider themselves superior are imbeciles. I already have. Twice.

I will explain why I consider them the creators of disputes and blood shed. As humans, we vary, a lot. We have a lot of differences.

All of the wars and disputes that weren't fully about greed were exactly because of those differences. Not that the differences are bad of course, but because someone spread the bigotry and made difference a bad thing.

This is why the crusades happenned, why slavery exists even today, why different nations hate each other...

...and the exact reason as to why not considering a group of people who considers themselves entitled more than others, and superior as idiots is pathetic.

[Someone With Mass]

Phaedon wrote...

At least you're not really alone in this. Many people around the BSN like to scapegoat Cerberus as being space-****s, so they can feel all morally superior.

Pull your "moral kool aid card" elsewhere.
People dislike the torture of children and murder of soldiers because they feel that is wrong and that's because they are human. Not to feel morally superior.

Also, the torture of aliens and the incredibly unnecessary fleet attacks.

They aren't called what they are called for nothing.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
1) I was making fun of people who hate humanity and want to blow it up. There are some around here, you know it as well as I.

BS. Some people find humanity dull in comparison to the fantastical new races, but I have yet to see a single person who would want to blow themselves up.

2) It's your extremist position of equality that I find repulsive. What you said was "Anyone who doesn't support equality of any form is in my book an imbecile, and  a terrible person." How is that not extreme? It's a blanket statement that labels any who disagree with you for any reason  "an imbecile, a terrible person." That's an extremely provincial attitude to take.

Uh, yes, I consider every supremacist an idiot.

I am very alarmed by the fact that you don't agree that supremacists are idiots.

They are idiots because they create a table of quality and put themselves on top, considering themselves as perfect though they can not possibly be.

And they are terrible people because they believe that they are entitled to better treatment than others, and don't care about others as much as they do about themselves.

Modifié par Phaedon, 12 août 2011 - 11:24 .

[Seboist]

In the minds of Cerberus/TIM haters,

Asari/Turian/Salarian Dominance = Good
Human Dominance = Bad

Oh and there's nothing wrong with the likes of the Krogan and Asari having racialist eugenic beliefs either.

Modifié par Seboist, 12 août 2011 - 11:27 .

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

BS. Some people find humanity dull in comparison to the fantastical new races, but I have yet to see a single person who would want to blow themselves up.

Next time I see one I'll PM you a link. Won't be long, they seem to pop up almost daily. 

Uh, yes, I consider every supremacist an idiot.

I am very alarmed by the fact that you don't agree that supremacists are idiots.

They are idiots because they create a table of quality and put themselves on top, considering themselves as perfect though they can not possibly be.

And they are terrible people because they believe that they are entitled to better treatment than others, and don't care about others as much as they do about themselves.

I think you're delusional. It's like you have this fearful paranoid complex about any individual who may be strong, assertive, intelligent, confident, successful, ambitious, or appreciative of those qualities. 

I can assure you I have no interest in discussing nor defending narcissists. I don't even know why you mention it.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 août 2011 - 11:28 .