316 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

Saphra Deden wrote...
The Crusades were retaliation against constant Muslim invasions of Christian land over the centuries. 

Supposedly. Created by feeding the people a sense of superiority that the leaders may have well shared.

Saphra Deden wrote...
To fight is sometimes necessary. So no, it isn't inherently wrong. An effective way to fight is to hate your enemy.

This is the most absurd thing I have heard today.

You state that supremacy is a good thing because it makes for effective bloodshed (which repeats just what I have said), and then you go on and claim that killing people when you are on the offense is not inherently wrong.

WHAT.

Uh. Hurting others is a bad thing. Who says so?
Not me. You, and all sentient beings known today are constructed to feel bad for hurting yourself, as well as others. Don't believe me? Look it up.

If you don't feel that it is a bad thing, then you are either not sentient, or you have some sort of mental anomaly. Either explanation is acceptable for me.

[legion999]

didymos1120 wrote...

BTW, all this NSDAP talk reminds me: if you dump the TLK file for ME2, there're strings leftover from their endgame testing code.

According to your current plot state, you have not completed the prerequisites to enter the "End of Game" chapter.

For the purpose of testing, please answer the following questions.

-->Continue

Did Shepard destroy the Reaper Base for great justice or hand it over to n_azi scientists?

-->Justice!
-->N_azis!


Was Shepard killed in the line of duty a second time in the same game?

-->Double Dead.
-->Just once, thanks.

You can actually get these menus to appear in-game by removing enough people from the party in the save editor (not flagging them dead, but completely removing), using a save made during the Suicide Mission.  Apparently the game thinks you didn't recruit enough people to be eligible, and decides you're doing testing.

I need to try that.

On topic how did you all get from Cerberus as an ally in ME3 to ****'s, Crusades and superiority?

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Well now we see where you stand. Quite the hypocrite aren't you?

Guess what? I don't care.

All I know is that the Council's rule is better than Cerberus' rule. Because Cerberus would have billions killed within the first week.

You say Cerberus would do it, but the Council already has when they sat and watched the quarians get eaten by their toasters.

[Phaedon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

That wasn't caused by need or finite resources. That was superiority.

No, land is a finite resource and land is what it was ultimately about. Lithuania wasn't Christian land and the Christians wanted it.

...they wouldn't have survived without Lithuania, right?

And I am sure that the people fought for Lithuania.

[marshalleck]

legion999 wrote...

On topic how did you all get from Cerberus as an ally in ME3 to ****'s, Crusades and superiority?

Whiny paragons.

[SandTrout]

Someone With Mass wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

What!? You're not this stupid, I know you're not. The asari, turians and salarians have been lording their dominance over everyone else for the last thousand years and more.

Yeah. Because they established their rule first. The other races didn't have to join them at all, but they did, so they have to simply accept the new rules or get lost.

Edit: It's the same way in reality. If you want to join a certain party, like NATO or EU, you have to accept their rules. 

Phaedon wanted an example of someone who wished for the subjegation of their own species...

Someone With Mass is a fine example.

[Weskerr]

marshalleck wrote...
Your signature is glorious.

It's funny you say that because I thought the same thing about yours.

[Phaedon]

Seboist wrote...
Krogan: The likes of Okeer and Wreav favor culling the weak in favor of "strengthening the race". Okeer's whole operation was one big eugenics project.

The only eugenics that exist there is Wreav's project and we know that he was a single krogan, one who many hated and were very skeptical of his creation.

The other is a ritual to accept krogan into a clan. If you don't like taking it, go to another clan or stay at the female camp.

Asari: The whole point of "mating" with other species is to make their species stronger. The whole stigma against "Pure Bloods" stems from the belief they're stagnating or weakening their species and the term is reminicent of being labeled a "race traitor" or "race mixer" by certain IRL groups.

That's your own BS. There is no evil master plan from the asari government, and the social stigma part I have already answered. Some bigots think that your heritage matters, that happens everywhere. Even today. Especially today.

Modifié par Phaedon, 12 août 2011 - 11:50 .

[Someone With Mass]

marshalleck wrote...
You say Cerberus would do it, but the Council already has when they sat and watched the quarians get eaten by their toasters.

Guess what they also did. They bypassed the rules about AI research through loopholes and when they finally did break the rules, it was all their own fault to begin with.

Then again, humanity did that too, but played the "we are special" card, so I can't care less if humanity gets under someone's boot heel because of it.

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Guess what they also did. They bypassed the rules about AI research through loopholes and when they finally did break the rules, it was all their own fault to begin with.

No, they didn't.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 août 2011 - 11:54 .

[Seboist]

Phaedon wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Krogan: The likes of Okeer and Wreav favor culling the weak in favor of "strengthening the race". Okeer's whole operation was one big eugenics project.

The only eugenics that exist there is Wreav's project and we know that he was a single krogan, one who many hated and were very skeptical of his creation.

The other is a ritual to accept krogan into a clan. If you don't like taking it, go to another clan or stay at the female camp.

Asari: The whole point of "mating" with other species is to make their species stronger. The whole stigma against "Pure Bloods" stems from the belief they're stagnating or weakening their species and the term is reminicent of being labeled a "race traitor" or "race mixer" by certain IRL groups.

That's your own BS. There is no evil master plan from the asari government, and the social stigma part I have already answered. Some bigots think that your heritage matters, that happens everywhere. Even today. Especially today.

There's nothing unique about Wreav's personal view. That's the common view of the Krogan, he is a traditionalist. Him,Uvenk,Okeer,etc are all interested in breeding a superior race of Krogan.

I never said it was a scheme from the Asari government or that it's made with sinister intent (more Paragon false claiming). It doesn't change the fact that they want to strengthen their species at the expense of others.

[Phaedon]

SandTrout wrote...
Phaedon wanted an example of someone who wished for the subjegation of their own species...

Someone With Mass is a fine example.

And I expected a lame attempt at being smart like that.

Humanity accepted some rules by the Council, just like every other races. Wanting justice for not following them is racial equality, not the exact opposite.

Saphra Deden wrote...
Like I said, propaganda. The same thing fueling the Muslim hordes.

Propaganda. Is. Not. A. Good. Thing.

And as much comfortable as it is for you to look things at a national level, you are doing it wrong.

Racists don't hate blacks, asians, etc because of a governmental master plan.
Sexists don't have sex equality, etc because of a governmental master plan.
X guy doesn't have my nationality because of a governmental master plan.

These had nothing to do with resources.

These had to do with pure feeling of "supremacy".

This is what leads to blood shed (the funny thing is that you don't deny it), which according to you is good.

Why is bloodshed inherently bad? It can lead to great good.

You sicken me.

Because of your zero respect or love for human life. Bloodshed is bad because people die during it.
All of us have been given a great gift by nature, the fact that you want to take it from some people,
and their families is absolutely disgusting. Why? Because it's the exact same thing that has lead to so much sadness, nations being slaughtered, little children being left without parents, people losing relatives and friends,
for the greater good.

No, and let's get this straight. Killing innocents is not the greater good, it's YOUR greater good. It's you who orchestrate it and set it in your mind as great and good.

You should feel bad for other people being hurt as much as you feel bad for you being hurt. Should is the word. I would suggest talking to an expert, but I won't waste my breath. You have made this a part of your life and you are proud of it.

Good luck at causing dispair and sadness for profit. Machiavelli -and some other people- would have been proud.

In the meantime, allow the rest of us who give a sh*t about the little girl next door who had her father murdered, or the African kid who lost his hands and feet in the war consider supremasists as imbeciles.


You see...it's our human nature.

Modifié par Phaedon, 13 août 2011 - 12:03 .

[marshalleck]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Guess what they also did. They bypassed the rules about AI research through loopholes and when they finally did break the rules, it was all their own fault to begin with.

No, they didn't.

What happened, then?

I'm glad you asked! It's explained in greater detail via Codex and Tali, but here's a quote from Chris L'etoile, the writer who original came up with the geth, and Legion:

Quote: Chris L'Etoile, Writer

To add a few facts to the discussion (if anything related to a fictional universe can be considered "fact"):

In the ME milieu, the general consensus is that truly sapient programs can only be achieved by a mix of hardware (a quantum computer, the "brain") and software (programs, the "consciousness"). All Alliance/Council AIs are of the "top-down" model.They are discrete computer systems deliberately and specifically designed by organic scientists to achieve consciousness.

Further, they have to be "raised" to sapience. You can't simply turn on a switch and say, "Hello, HAL, make me a sandwich." Like a child, they must learn to use their bodies and be taught how to think.

There's a ramp-up time, too. The computers that run these programs work millions of times faster than organic thought. If you simply turned an AI bluebox on at full capacity, the nascent mind inside it would at best fail to achieve consciousness. At worst it would be insane from lack of input. (As a crude analogy, imagine a human infant whose parents move so slowly, they can only touch them or speak a word once an hour. From the infant's perspective, there's no one there to talk to, to grab the finger of, to feed or reassure them.) A young AI is actually started a clock speed below that of an organic, and slowly ramped up.

What does all this have to do with geth?

They're something different - a "bottom-up" model of AI. That is, their sapience developed from non-sapient hardware/code, with no known assistance by organic teachers. They weren't designed to become conscious, but they did.

Modifié par marshalleck, 13 août 2011 - 12:03 .

[Phaedon]

Um, the Alliance developed AI illegally back then and paid for it, but if you did do your research, you would see that they recently developed their legal sapient AI.