322 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Since when did abominations emerge from the Fade? The whole point is that an abomination is its a possessed mage. (or someone a mage FORCED a demon into and the demon turned into an abomination).

The abominations are made and then live in the Fade for a while, probably stepping back and forth.

He can still take out Anders in one hit and doesn't die from any of Anders' single attacks. So he's obvioulsy the stronger.

You're arguing mechanics from the opposite perspective, about enemies being unrealistically resilient. It has nothing to do with this.

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...

]The abominations are made and then live in the Fade for a while, probably stepping back and forth.

I linked the wiki for you. Please read it. 

You're arguing mechanics from the opposite perspective, about enemies being unrealistically resilient. It has nothing to do with this.

You don't understand why a common enemy type that attacks in groups would be weakened for gameplay? Really? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 août 2011 - 01:16 .

[miraclemight]

The point is, what you see in gameplay is not what is explained by the lore. One abomination is trouble. Meredith's sister, a weak one, slaughtered the whole village.

Two abominations are nightmare... a circle with multiple abominations running loose in a city is a situation you're not going to see even in Tevinter. If the Kirkwall mages think allowing demons to possess them is a perfect solution, then someone is sooner or later going to strike them down. Be it a Templar or a Magister.

At least the game managed to keep this one close to the lore: You see Magisters summoning hordes of demons, but none of them turn into one themselves. Honestly, that's just pretty silly. "Come and kill me from within and live in my body."

[Xilizhra]

You don't understand why a common enemy type that attacks in groups would be weakened for gameplay? Really?

If they were going to be strong, why attack in groups?

The point is, what you see in gameplay is not what is explained by the lore. One abomination is trouble. Meredith's sister, a weak one, slaughtered the whole village.

Presumably the demon was strong.

[miraclemight]

They attack you in group because it's "Gamplay" mechanics.

You can summon your mabari hound in Feynriel's dream. Does that mean anyone in Thedas can drag their dogs into the Fade? No. Not unless they want to use piles and piles of lyrium.

Modifié par miraclemight, 13 août 2011 - 01:25 .

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...
If they were going to be strong, why attack in groups?

For the same reason anything attacks in groups. Overwhelming strength. Plus stronger abominations (Uldred) seem to like having control over weaker ones (the ones he turned the others into). Not to mention gameplay. The same reason the templars fighting mage Hawke (other than Meredith) seem to be unable to drain his mana and stop him from casting. The same reason Alrik doesn't drain Hawke's mana (he does at leastuse holy smite). Abominations certainly weren't the only enemies weakened from how they work in lore. 

Very few mages Hawke meets are alone. The only ones I know that were by themselves were Gascard and Quintin. 

Presumably the demon was strong.

And you say this like Hawke and co haven't built an reputation over being extremely lethal. Of course abominations and the like are weak to Hawke and the Warden. They're widely renowned for their fighting prowess. It's like comparing a fully grown mathematical genius to a five year old average student in math. There's a wide gap in ability there. 

It's gameplay. 

It's the same reason Hawke causes people to explode into body chunks somehow by hitting them with a staff. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 août 2011 - 01:28 .

[Sepewrath]

Tidra wrote...
And lol @ the "I am Grand Cleric, who would dare attack me?!"

Well being in all the moment she died, it led to the deaths of a ton of people completely unrelated and the collapse the Chantry system, which is going to drag the whole continent into war, in hindsight, might not have been the best idea to attack her lol.

bleetman wrote...
It's more the "if Kirkwall falls to magic,
nowhere will be safe" type comments, followed by trotting back to the
Divine to report how out of hand the situation is apparently getting
that's riling people up, I imagine. She does come across as somewhat
anti-mage in her DA2 cameo, what with turning up, seeming content that
the mages are responsible and suggesting that the Grand Cleric get out
of town before it gets any worse, then leaving again.

Well being in all how quick people are to point out that every mage in Kirkwall is a blood mage or abomination, seems like an apt statement from that view point.

[LobselVith8]

Merrill does note that if an elven mage becomes an abomination, the clan hunts down the abomination, so they aren't practically invincible or anything like that. It's acknowledged that this is done in societies with free mages, like the Avvar, the Chasind, the Dalish, and the seers in the Kingdom of Rivain.

[Ryzaki]

Why yes one abomination vs an entire dalish clan is totally showing that abominations are weak. Even though said clan is probably trained for such an inevitability and are skilled hunters and great shots with a bow.

Not to mention Hawke can take out said dalish clan with relative ease...so obviously an abomination is gonna be a walk in the park for him.

Practically invincible? No. It depends on the abomination and how powerful the mage is. Even Keeper Marethari points out that if Feyrniel became an abomination he'd be *nearly* unstoppable.

And those free societies accept the damage the mages cause and the lives they end as just a natural disaster. The abominations don't magically become harmless. They still destroy land, lives and have to be put down by someone skilled enough to do so.

What I don't understand is why so many templars are needed to destroy a single abomination. Templars are trained soldiers. They should have just as easy of a time as the dalish unless dalish mages are weaker than CMs. ...then again how many people are in a dalish clan?  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 août 2011 - 05:55 .

[Dave of Canada]

Ryzaki wrote...

And those free societies accept the damage the mages cause and the lives they end as just a natural disaster

And I doubt a large group of people outside these areas would ever be willing to accept this.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 août 2011 - 05:55 .

[Xilizhra]

What I don't understand is why so many templars are needed to destroy a single abomination. Templars are trained soldiers. They should have just as easy of a time as the dalish unless dalish mages are weaker than CMs. ...then again how many people are in a dalish clan?

It comes from the codex, which is pretty much all Chantry-written, so I think it's propaganda.

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...

It comes from the codex, which is pretty much all Chantry-written, so I think it's propaganda.

 

Nah you see it in Broken Circle as well. Gregoir says him and all the templars there were prepared for one or two abominations but more than that and they were screwed. 

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It comes from the codex, which is pretty much all Chantry-written, so I think it's propaganda.

 

Nah you see it in Broken Circle as well. Gregoir says him and all the templars there were prepared for one or two abominations but more than that and they were screwed. 

But your party of four has no trouble.

So either there were, lorewise, only one or two abominations in the tower (covered by the sloth demon and Uldred, so there would thus be no other abominations at all), the templars are massively incompetent, or it's just a lore screwup.

[mesmerizedish]

Xilizhra wrote...

But your party of four has no trouble.

So either there were, lorewise, only one or two abominations in the tower (covered by the sloth demon and Uldred, so there would thus be no other abominations at all), the templars are massively incompetent, or it's just a lore screwup.

Or it's gameplay taking precedence over how the setting is presented.

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...
But your party of four has no trouble.

So either there were, lorewise, only one or two abominations in the tower (covered by the sloth demon and Uldred, so there would thus be no other abominations at all), the templars are massively incompetent, or it's just a lore screwup.

Your party of four extremely well trained warriors that may include 2 or more mages?  Morrigan and the Warden are pretty much a given to be stronger than any templar. Same with Shale and Sten I believe. Alsitair is on par (if not slightly better) than a templar. Wynne? Powerful abomination herself with great healing powers. Oghren? Dwarven warrior (who is pretty hardy and resists many magical attacks). 

Then of course is the fact that the Warden/Hawke is the protagonist. Of course abominations aren't gonna give him/her trouble. It's a game. It's the same reason he/she has no scars unless you purposely give him/her some. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 août 2011 - 06:10 .

[Dave of Canada]

Game mechanics.

Same reason why Hawke isn't bitten in half by a dragon, why Anders doesn't suddenly fall to the floor burnt to a crisp by an abomination, ect.

Game mechanics > Lore. They can't show the Warden walk into the tower and be ripped apart by two-three abominations, nor would you see the Rock Wraith step on Varric and crush him alive.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 août 2011 - 06:05 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Same reason why nobody mentions that dozen or so dead guys in the Chantry post recruiting Isabela.

COME ON.
There are a dozen dead dudes in the Chantry and no one cares?

[Ryzaki]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Same reason why nobody mentions that dozen or so dead guys in the Chantry post recruiting Isabela.

COME ON.
There are a dozen dead dudes in the Chantry and no one cares?

I just took that as a case of morons. 

The same reason you can kill Lord Harimann in broad daylight yet the family never figures out it was Hawke. 

[Xilizhra]

All right. So what really happened there in the lore?

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

All right. So what really happened there in the lore?

The super-protagonist wearing plot armor managed to fight and destroy everything, people are in awe. Protagonist armor shines brightly in the sunset.

[LobselVith8]

The codex entry, "A Study of the Fifth Blight, Vol. One" addresses the abominations in Kinloch Hold, so I don't see why we should simply dismiss them as being a part of game mechanics.

[Ryzaki]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The codex entry, "A Study of the Fifth Blight, Vol. One" addresses the abominations in Kinloch Hold, so I don't see why we should simply dismiss them as being a part of game mechanics.

You mean by either ignoring them or stating that they were killed? Yeah they were killed. By the protagonist who is no common warrior. 

That's common knowledge that the Warden is not to be f*cked with in combat. He/she doesn't just take out abomations, he/she takes out dragons, cults, a whole army of darkspawn, saves a village, goes along through a haunted village of corpses with ease...

Really he/she doesn't count as normal/average in anyway whatsoever. Of course abominations aren't going t be that big of a deal. He/she fights far stronger things every day. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 août 2011 - 06:17 .

[LobselVith8]

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean by either ignoring them or stating that they were killed? Yeah they were killed. By the protagonist who is no common warrior. 

That's common knowledge that the Warden is not to be f*cked with in combat. He/she doesn't just take out abomations, he/she takes out dragons, cults, a whole army of darkspawn, saves a village, goes along through a haunted village of corpses with ease...

Really he/she doesn't count as normal/average in anyway whatsoever. Of course abominations aren't going t be that big of a deal. He/she fights far stronger things every day. 

I doubt the stories about the Circle Tower were anything more than rumors if the mages survived, but it's acknowledged there was a presence of abominations to deal with if the Circle was purged, so it clearly isn't impossible to deal with more than one abomination according to lore.

[Ryzaki]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I doubt the stories about the Circle Tower were anything more than rumors if the mages survived, but it's acknowledged there was a presence of abominations to deal with if the Circle was purged, so it clearly isn't impossible to deal with more than one abomination according to lore.

Lore never said it was impossible for the warden (or indeed anyone) and his crew to deal with more than one abomination. Gregoir said it was impossible for him and his current amount of templars to deal with the abominations that were in the circle without razing it to the ground (which he needed clearence for thus sending for the rite). Big difference. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 août 2011 - 06:51 .