303 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

INCOMING TL;DR

The Mass Effect series is high on girl power.

Seriously, think about it.  Pretty much every female character in that game can kick your ass.  Ashley?  Assault rifle toting woman of steel.  Liara?  Timid archaeologist turned Shadow Broker with a fistful of singularity.  Tali?  More mechanically adept than you, and has a shotgun.  Samara crushes the tracheas of fully-armored mercs with her heels (while her daughter can kill you with her braingina).  Kasumi's a sticky-fingered ninja, with grenades.  Jack can blow your brains out or curse you to death.  Miranda (despite dat ass) is superwoman, complete with tights.  Chakwas rocks, Kelly is insightful and unashamed of her sexuality, Gabby's a genius, the bartending matriarch is the most badass being to ever breathe oxygen, and Aria and Helena Blake could probably make most mafia dons ****** their pants.  Hell, even the asari, an all-female race meant to pander to the lonely nerd in all of us, have the largest economy, greatest political pull, and one of the most feared (albeit one of the smallest) fighting forces in the galaxy.

And then there's FemShep.  The female incarnation of Shepard is unique in that she is every bit as powerful, capable, and badass as her male counterpart.  She blasts through ancient ruins with mining lasers, kills thresher maws on foot, punches reporters while the camera's rolling, sleeps with the galaxy's most dangerous aliens, saves the galaxy, and has killed enough goons to sit among the ranks of the most machismo heroes the entertainment industry has to offer.  She can be kind and gentle, a complete hardass, impulsive or the voice of reason, but she is never a wimp, never weak, never forced into a position where she is compromised because of her sex.  And she's not designed to be uber-sexy, either.

But it's not just the collection of female badassery that ME has going for it: it's the storytelling, too.

The Mass Effect series is one of those rare gaming gems that lets you really get to know the characters.  Their overall presentation and depth rivals that of film, television, and literature (YMMV).  However, because ME is a videogame, it gives you the opportunity to not only watch these characters, but interact with them.  You, the player, can talk to them, befriend them, help them out, pursue an intimate relationship--hell, you can even screw them over and cackle maniacally as you run away and watch them burn.  These complex stories and interactions are a great draw for female gamers because they don't only entertain, but they make you care.

Yeah.  There's a reason to play Mass Effect other than high scores and shooty bits (which I enjoy, BTW, but it's kind of like Tetris: a way to exercise my brain, blow off stress, and kill time).  ME has this great universe that lets you lose yourself in it, populated with people you grow to love almost as if they were real friend, and lets you tinker with that universe on a level most of us can't in real life.  Ultimately, it's the involvement in the story and characters--that space-age fantasy in which I have made an investment, thanks to decision carry-over--that keeps me glued to the series, and it will probably be a great hook for other girls and women as well.

My girlfriends and I will joke about improper use of vanguard charging and argue over which weapon specialization is superior, sure, but it's the story and characters that we seriously talk about.  Yes, girls and women can and do enjoy intense combat with weapon customization and all the ultra-special blah blah (and plenty of you fellas care about the story and characters far more than you do combat), but seriously, this is an aspect of the game that I feel has been largely ignored by marketing.

Finally giving FemShep some press recognition was huge, I'll say it now, but really, there's so much more to these games than the pew-pew-bang-bang.  Shouldn't there be more attention paid to the non-combat aspect in advertising, especially when more and more ladies are picking up games?  When people are getting tired of Gears of Duty?  When video games are finally starting to be recognized as an artistic storytelling medium?

And to my fellow XX-chromosomes out there, what initially drew you to Mass Effect?  What do you want to see in ME3?  And how do you feel the marketing goons should address you and others who haven't picked up the series yet?

And fellas, do you like the strong female characters in ME?  Do you think the non-combat aspects of ME3 need more attention paid to them for the sake of potential new players?

TL;DR: The Admiral rambles about storytelling, female leads, and marketing.  Also, did I mention the hot guys?  Mass Effect has hot guys.

[Saaziel]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And fellas, do you like the strong female characters in ME? Do you think the non-combat aspects of ME3 need more attention paid to them for the sake of potential new players?

I love women with strong personalties.

Strong in a "brute" sense? ...To a certain degree. I mean it has to be consistent, sometimes it can come off as "trying too hard". But there is definitely an appeal to girls that could kick my ass ; Like Jack.

As far as adding/polishing non-combat aspects of the game. All for it , if it gets more people aboard (Just don't make it obligatory; I still need to twitch kill , now!). The more the merrier; Girl gamers , even better. Its always great to have different (and often more nuanced) outlook.

To be perfectly frank , i have no idea what would specifically interest women more in a game. Looking forward to replies.

Modifié par Saaziel, 13 août 2011 - 05:13 .

[CrazyCatDude]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

My girlfriends and I will joke about improper use of vanguard charging

See, you had me until right here.  But this, this is a problem, because there is no such thing as improper use of biotic charge.  The only way to use it wrong is to not use it.

[AdmiralCheez]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

See, you had me until right here.  But this, this is a problem, because there is no such thing as improper use of biotic charge.  The only way to use it wrong is to not use it.

Actually, I HAVE used it wrong.  You know Garrus's loyalty mission?  I kind of forgot there were two YMIRs at the end.  I accidentally flanked myself.

[thatguy212]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

CrazyCatDude wrote...

See, you had me until right here.  But this, this is a problem, because there is no such thing as improper use of biotic charge.  The only way to use it wrong is to not use it.

Actually, I HAVE used it wrong.  You know Garrus's loyalty mission?  I kind of forgot there were two YMIRs at the end.  I accidentally flanked myself.

I can top that, Biotic bubble section of suicide mission, damn my urge to charge everything

[Praetor Knight]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And fellas, do you like the strong female characters in ME?  Do you think the non-combat aspects of ME3 need more attention paid to them for the sake of potential new players?

TL;DR: The Admiral rambles about storytelling, female leads, and marketing.

Hmm... I may be XY , but my family is dominated by strong women anyway... so more attention? Why not?



And ramble on please, always an interesting read.

[CrazyCatDude]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

CrazyCatDude wrote...

See, you had me until right here.  But this, this is a problem, because there is no such thing as improper use of biotic charge.  The only way to use it wrong is to not use it.

Actually, I HAVE used it wrong.  You know Garrus's loyalty mission?  I kind of forgot there were two YMIRs at the end.  I accidentally flanked myself.

That's not misuse of Biotic Charge.  That's insufficient application of the M920 Cain.  

Okay, so maybe there are one or two situations where discretion is called for.  Of course, that just makes it all the more epic when you charge the two YMIR's and actually live through it...

[Shotokanguy]

Miranda despite ass is superwoman?

I'd say any superwoman is going to have a super ass.

[SerWhat?]

You'll think I'm crazy and stupid but I always wanted to see a romantic suspense game like a novel only in game form.

[AdmiralCheez]

Shotokanguy wrote...

Miranda despite ass is superwoman?

I'd say any superwoman is going to have a super ass.

I know this is random, but do you know who has the nicest ass in Mass Effect?

Legion.

I sh*t you not.

[AdmiralCheez]

lknewsome wrote...

You'll think I'm crazy and stupid but I always wanted to see a romantic suspense game like a novel only in game form.

That could work, actually.  There are already plenty of games that rely on dialogue and clue-finding, survival, the whole shebang.

[JukeFrog]

I've always had a thing for women in power, so yes, I like strong female characters. I find that The Boss from MGS3 is perfect example of a powerful female character. I also enjoy that the female characters of Mass Effect aren't oversexualized (well, at least Miranda is fully-clothed and Jack isn't rocking double-Ds).

[kuoleman]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

My girlfriends and I will joke about improper use of vanguard charging and argue over which weapon specialization is superior, sure, but it's the story and characters that we seriously talk about.  

Jealous at this. My girlfriends look at me like I'm nuts when I make random video game comments during lunches. Flexibility, reach... hahaha.
  
I need friends that game, so that I'm not the only one laughing to myself.

 

Also, did I mention the hot guys?  Mass Effect has hot guys.

Have to say, honestly, that's what got me started with Mass Effect. Was a fan of Bioware story telling (see: romance), obsessed over KOTOR, brother asked if I had played the new game made by same company... I was hooked after seeing the LT.
Now, now, don't discount me just because I say that... I still enjoy taking a shotgun to a flashlight head. And I have been known to beat the boys at FPS's, but to me it's so much more enjoyable when I am really invested in the story. Why do I want to kill this synthetic? Just for funsies? Kill points? Cheevos? Or because I really feel like I have to?
AND if I'm really lucky I'll get the man too.
So when I tell the hubby I need some time away from the kiddos... he knows I'm probably going to go save the universe... yet again.

[SerWhat?]

I imagined a futuristic female Navy Seal who goes to another world to rescue some people from alien terrorists and one of the people she rescues is a love interest.

[Davie McG]

I like the strong female characters in mass effect.

A few of my friends are the kind of women who could kick your arse and look good doing it, so I enjoy seeing those kinds of roles in games and film. Plus as you say in your original post, these women may be strong characters but not to the point of being some kind of cave woman. They are well written and all have their vulnerable moments.

More of the same in games wouldn't go a miss.

Also looking forward to the combat in ME3 with the new weapon customization.

[CrazyCatDude]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And fellas, do you like the strong female characters in ME?  Do you think the non-combat aspects of ME3 need more attention paid to them for the sake of potential new players?

TL;DR: The Admiral rambles about storytelling, female leads, and marketing.  Also, did I mention the hot guys?  Mass Effect has hot guys.

ME is one of my favorite games ever.  I go back and forth between ME1, ME2 and Portal for the number 1, 2 and 3 spot.  ME1 for pure storytelling win, ME2, because, hello, biotic charge is the best video game power ever, and they pretty much perfected combat, and Portal because I've got a physics degree and it fills me with pure newtonian love.  I suspect ME3 is going to end up in the rotation as well.

When it comes to characters, the ME series has some of the best.  I love Ashley so much I've never once been able to bring myself to leave her on Virmire (poor Kaidan).  Liara, Tali, Samara, Miranda, Kasumi, Chakwas, Kelly, EDI and poor little broken Jack.  Then there's Aria, and Matriarch Aethyta and I could go on, but the game is just so full of terrific characters the list would be huge and I'd still miss some.  But ultimately, FemShep is what attracted me to Mass Effect in the first place.  I love stories with a well writen female protagonist, and FemShep is right up there with some of my favorites, like Mina Harker, Ellen Ripley, Kara Thrace, Honor Harrington, Susan Ivanova and Eilsa Maza

[marshalleck]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

INCOMING TL;DR

The Mass Effect series is high on girl power.

Seriously, think about it.  Pretty much every female character in that game can kick your ass.  Ashley?  Assault rifle toting woman of steel.  Liara?  Timid archaeologist turned Shadow Broker with a fistful of singularity.  Tali?  More mechanically adept than you, and has a shotgun.  Samara crushes the tracheas of fully-armored mercs with her heels (while her daughter can kill you with her braingina)

Haven't finished reading, obviously, but I just wanted to say that I can't help but feel like a chapter of my life is now fulfilled and complete upon having read the bolded word.

[ElitePinecone]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
And fellas, do you like the strong female characters in ME?  Do you think the non-combat aspects of ME3 need more attention paid to them for the sake of potential new players?

TL;DR: The Admiral rambles about storytelling, female leads, and marketing.  Also, did I mention the hot guys?  Mass Effect has hot guys.

Yes, and yes. Also yes for the hot guys. 

Excellent post, Admiral. 

Edit: To expand a little:

Some marketing decisions aside, I'm extraordinarily pleased with how the Mass Effect series has handled the possibility of two genders of protagonist. The fact that there are dozens of strong female characters to boot makes it very satisfying to play through. 

It's a credit to the writing team that they turn what could be a male-adolescent-heterosexual-boobfest into something much more thoughtful and mature. Even when the cinematics or marketing do occasionally pander to base sex appeal, at the very least the characters are written to be empowered. 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 13 août 2011 - 05:55 .

[JamieCOTC]

I think some things are already in the works.

Patrick Weekes on gender blindness.  LJ comments

"Sometimes Shep is vulnerable... Sometimes she's the baddest mofo yet! More and more fun to write all the time." Mac Walters

Shep's character to be explored further. Mac Walters

New Yorker article (w/ Jennifer Hale) confirms Shepard will show "his/her frailty" "even though not every player will choose to experience that."  If a couple of lines are anything to go by, the New Yorker article does give some insight on how they are combining Shepard's character development w/in the combat. 

---

As a guy who has been playing video games since Pong, I have to say that both ME and femShep are a breath of fresh air.  Would the movie "Alien" have been a great movie w/ a male lead (as originally intended)?  Yes, but w/ Sigourney Weaver it's a classic and it broke the mold for that type of genre. For me, it's the same thing w/ ME.  Mass Effect is a good game w/ a male lead, but it's better w/ a female lead that is just as strong and capable as her male counterpart.  At the very least, it’s not the same old thing.

[SgtElias]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

She can be kind and gentle, a complete hardass, impulsive or the voice of reason, but she is never a wimp, never weak, never forced into a position where she is compromised because of her sex. 

I must admit, I was extremely impressed by this aspect (and not expecting it at all) when first my husband purchased ME1. I have tried, repeatedly, to get my female friends into Mass Effect and other Bioware games, but it doesn't seem to matter how many times I *insist* that it's not just story-based, but story-centered, and that they can PLAY AS A WOMAN, I have had zero luck, because the box art in general looks so very the opposite of what they play. Very frustrating.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

My girlfriends and I will joke about improper use of vanguard charging

Wow. That's, just . . . wow. I need to have more friends that game, apparently.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And to my fellow XX-chromosomes out there, what initially drew you to Mass Effect?  What do you want to see in ME3?  And how do you feel the marketing goons should address you and others who haven't picked up the series yet?

I, personally, got into ME because my husband bought it and I tried it out. I wasn't particularly interested initially because it looked, well, like a generic FPS* in space full of aliens and bewb girls. Then, you know, I actually played it and enjoyed it somewhat. But, as I am not a console gamer**, I eventually ditched it. Then after I bought Dragon Age: Origins, I was so impressed and fascinated that I grabbed up everything everything everything I could find ever produced by the same company and played it ravenously. Been hooked ever since.

* I like FPS games just fine, though they only hold my attention for between 2-4 hours; not really long enough for Bioware to develop a story for me, especially on an Xbox.

** Because I play like I have "plump polish sausages taped to my fingers."

[RPGamer13]

In the first Mass Effect, I actually killed the first Thresher Maw I encountered entirely on foot, and I always play a female Shepard. I did it before I even heard of anyone else doing it and back when the game was released, I was on the boards practically every day.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And fellas, do you like the strong female characters in ME?  Do you think the non-combat aspects of ME3 need more attention paid to them for the sake of potential new players?

I love the strong female characters, and it's definitely one of the aspects I have noticed.

It just would be nice if Shepard actually looked strong, some definition in her arms, or at least a larger circumference to her arms because the circumference of her arms in the first two games make them look dainty and that's a really bad thing to me, especially for such an awesome character.

I also wasn't interested in the game until I found out you could play a female character.  And now, more than before, whether or not a game has a female playable character has a huge influence on if I'll buy certain types of games.

Modifié par RPGamer13, 13 août 2011 - 05:56 .

[AdmiralCheez]

kuoleman wrote...

Jealous at this. My girlfriends look at me like I'm nuts when I make random video game comments during lunches. Flexibility, reach... hahaha.
  
I need friends that game, so that I'm not the only one laughing to myself.

It can be tricky to find geeky friends, especially if you're in the wrong generation.  The whole "video games aren't just for nerds anymore" thing is a fairly recent development, so it'll take time to sink in outside of college campuses and the like.  Damn it, culture!
 

Have to say, honestly, that's what got me started with Mass Effect. Was a fan of Bioware story telling (see: romance), obsessed over KOTOR, brother asked if I had played the new game made by same company... I was hooked after seeing the LT.

For me it was because I had a friend that wouldn't shut up about Garrus.  I bought the game to get her off my back, and now I'm a Garrus fangirl.  It's contagious.

Now, now, don't discount me just because I say that... I still enjoy taking a shotgun to a flashlight head. And I have been known to beat the boys at FPS's, but to me it's so much more enjoyable when I am really invested in the story. Why do I want to kill this synthetic? Just for funsies? Kill points? Cheevos? Or because I really feel like I have to?
AND if I'm really lucky I'll get the man too.
So when I tell the hubby I need some time away from the kiddos... he knows I'm probably going to go save the universe... yet again.

Which was my point: shooting stuff needs to have an actual point to it other than just bonus points.

Too many points in that last sentence.

[wizardryforever]

Well, being a guy, I don't have quite the perspective you're looking for, though I'll admit that I like pretty much every female character.  Like you said, they are each strong in their own way.  None of them is weak or there purely for fanservice.  But at the same time none of them are Mary Sues either.  They feel like people and not caricatures.  Not many video games can pull that off reliably, and it's awesome.  That said, there is such a thing as "too strong" for both males and females, that does not endear you to the person.  Fortunately, none of the Mass Effect characters (but since the spotlight is on women, I'll focus on them) actually cross that threshold, though some come close.

[ADLegend21]

PREACH Cheez!

[Major Tao]

 ( Edited so I can focus on the parts I'll reply to...) 

Admiral Cheez wrote...  

"The Mass Effect series is high on girl power.

Seriously, think about it.  Pretty much every female character in that game can kick your ass.  Ashley?  Assault rifle toting woman of steel.  Liara?  Timid archaeologist turned Shadow Broker with a fistful of singularity.  Tali?  More mechanically adept than you, and has a shotgun.  Samara crushes the tracheas of fully-armored mercs with her heels (while her daughter can kill you with her braingina).  Kasumi's a sticky-fingered ninja, with grenades.  Jack can blow your brains out or curse you to death.  Miranda (despite dat ass) is superwoman, complete with tights.  Chakwas rocks, Kelly is insightful and unashamed of her sexuality, Gabby's a genius, the bartending matriarch is the most badass being to ever breathe oxygen, and Aria and Helena Blake could probably make most mafia dons ****** their pants.  Hell, even the asari, an all-female race meant to pander to the lonely nerd in all of us, have the largest economy, greatest political pull, and one of the most feared (albeit one of the smallest) fighting forces in the galaxy.

And then there's FemShep.  The female incarnation of Shepard is unique in that she is every bit as powerful, capable, and badass as her male counterpart.  She blasts through ancient ruins with mining lasers, kills thresher maws on foot, punches reporters while the camera's rolling, sleeps with the galaxy's most dangerous aliens, saves the galaxy, and has killed enough goons to sit among the ranks of the most machismo heroes the entertainment industry has to offer.  She can be kind and gentle, a complete hardass, impulsive or the voice of reason, but she is never a wimp, never weak, never forced into a position where she is compromised because of her sex.  And she's not designed to be uber-sexy, either.

But it's not just the collection of female badassery that ME has going for it: it's the storytelling, too.

The Mass Effect series is one of those rare gaming gems that lets you really get to know the characters.  Their overall presentation and depth rivals that of film, television, and literature (YMMV).  However, because ME is a videogame, it gives you the opportunity to not only watch these characters, but interact with them.  You, the player, can talk to them, befriend them, help them out, pursue an intimate relationship--hell, you can even screw them over and cackle maniacally as you run away and watch them burn.  These complex stories and interactions are a great draw for female gamers because they don't only entertain, but they make you care.

........

...And fellas, do you like the strong female characters in ME?  Do you think the non-combat aspects of ME3 need more attention paid to them for the sake of potential new players?"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AdmiralCheez,

"...And fellas, do you like the strong female characters in ME?"

 ABSOLUTELY  !!!        A RESOUNDING YES  !!!       Girl Power ROCKS !!!

I mean seriously, you can't leave out the other half of humanity out of games - because they're female.
What are the other games developers thinking - or not thinking ? ? ?

Maybe we're at a watershed moment of the kind represented by when "Star Trek" first appeared on television.
Here was a vision of the future...and the main characters were an integrated, multi-ethnic cast made up of women, men, asian-americans, african-americans, european-descended folks, and others. Yes, they had a male Captain -  - yet women were always preset, represented and had roles to play.  When Captain Janeway appeared on the scene ( at long last ! ) - that too was quite a statement.  It was an acknowledgment that women can fill these leadership roles - in life - and in our imaginations ! 

"...it's not just the collection of female badassery that ME has going for it: it's the storytelling, too."

With such an exceptional offering as the Mass Effect Universe, it's set an incredibly high standard in so many ways.
Gameplay, graphics, customization, depth of RPG, and storytelling.  What an adventure it's been ! 


"Do you think the non-combat aspects of ME3 need more attention paid to them......"  

I've spoken up strongly in favor of the dialogues, interactions, and humor that helps make Mass Effect so rich. 
Mind you.. I always hope for great things from Bioware...and yet I had a lot of criticism to deliver when "The Arrival" was released - because it felt so under developed and had such unrealized potential. 

"...for the sake of potential new players?"

How to interest new players... hmmmmmmm....   

How about Bioware offering a Beta Test ?    
That seems to help the company and the Players too.  Everyone Wins ! 

"I found another bug/glitch ! - Zap !"