303 réponses à ce sujet

[C9316]

Honestly I think The OP is Tazzmission, he got banned long ago and this might be his new profile.

[Sundance31us]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...
I did the research and found that you are 100% full of fabricated statistics...

If you did the research why didn't you provide the links?  <_<

http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

• Forty-two percent of all players are women and women over 18 years of age are one of the industry's fastest growing demographics.
• Today, adult women represent a greater portion of the game-playing population (37 percent) than boys age 17 or younger (13 percent).

Edit: To add info from link.

Modifié par Sundance31us, 15 août 2011 - 12:40 .

[K_Tabris]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The Mass Effect series is high on girl power.

Agreed! Bioware's inclusion of the female PC (and npcs) have been done well in the past, and continue into the present games, the ME series in particular.

And to my fellow XX-chromosomes out there, what initially drew you to Mass Effect?  What do you want to see in ME3?  And how do you feel the marketing goons should address you and others who haven't picked up the series yet?

The shooter aspect of ME is not what drew me to MAss Effect.  I was very reluctant to pick it up, actually.  After playing a few Bioware games, I wanted something similar, a story with choice, and a heroine who could cultivate strong relationships with her supporters/ followers.  I was skeptical that a military-style game would pull that off.  The employee at Game Stop eventually convinced me to pick ME1 over BG2 (which wouldn;t have been a bad choice, either), and I'm glad he did. Awesome story, amazing characters, and a strong female lead who kicks ass, made me replay the game more times than I will ever admit.

[LPPrince]

C9316 wrote...

Honestly I think The OP is Tazzmission, he got banned long ago and this might be his new profile.

Riiiiiight, cause Cheez is a troll who created a new account in 2010.

Really?

[AlphaDormante]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

I'm not saying you shouldn't or can't have these features, but there is no saying how it will be received, what may seem subtle to you, will not be subtle to others...I mean romancing itself was a major issue of conflict in the first ME game...(the scenes)

Just because from your perspective it is acceptable doesn't mean from others it will be...thats the whole point I'm trying to get across, and from that we factor in the majority view.

I'm approaching this as unbiased as humanly possible, you may not like what I have to say, but I cite past factual points and take neither side. All I hope for is they do it subtly enough to not cause an issue, to what point that is, I can't say nor can anyone really know.

I'm done on this topic for now, take from it what you will, I'm just exploring the very real possibility here, I don't intend to offend anyone.

Yes, I suppose it is difficult for me to understand how the main demographic insists on being so overtly offended by and attacking such minor pittances. You'll still get your chest-pounding, women-wrangling adventures, gentlemen, don't worry yourselves so.

Carfax wrote...

No, they were lambasted.  After all, FemShep fanatics aren't exactly the most understanding sort of people to be sure.  I've been posting on Bioware forums in one form or another for over a decade now, so I've seen lots of debates and arguements about this subject matter over the  years, and it's always been hotly debated.

According to you, there aren't enough hardcore female gamers for this kind of marketing to be justified. Now you're citing these exact same hardcore female gamers as the reason Bioware's marketing is justified. Which one is it?

I'm also not opening your other cans of worms, but thanks for the offer

Modifié par AlphaDormante, 14 août 2011 - 11:56 .

[didymos1120]

AlphaDormante wrote...

Yes, I suppose it is difficult for me to understand how the main demographic insists on being so overtly offended by and attacking such minor pittances. You'll still get your chest-pounding, women-wrangling adventures, gentlemen, don't worry yourselves so.

It's basically like this: we're used to having all the money spent on "guy stuff" and all the attention from marketing and whatnot.  So, when a company actually expends any portion of their resources on content targeted at different demographics, it's perceived almost like it's theft: they're giving what's rightfully OURS to those other people!  What never seems to occur to anyone who gets all bent about this stuff is to stop and wonder why they feel like they were entitled to all that in the first place. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

I just LOVE the smell of the "minor demographics" playing the victim card in the morning.

[100k]

AlphaDormante wrote...
I like how you think you're qualified to call someone else naive, complete with your condescending smiley faces and smarter-than-thou lectures. Spare me.

I don't think you realize the self-serving cycle that you're displaying right now. If you're "amused" by topics like this, what makes you think a marketer - a person whose job is to make money - would be any different? Pitch an idea like "advertising violent games to women" to any man and he'll laugh in your face, utterly "amused". And you expect a man whose job it is to sell violent video games to take it seriously?

Violence isn't advertised to women because marketing money doesn't fall from the sky, and marketers don't want to put money into a gamble when they have such easy alternatives in the male market. And we, as women, don't like to advertise ourselves as existing more than most people think, because we get ignorance like this and harassment from idiots who think we play video games for an online dating service.

Again, it's a self-serving cycle. It took three games for Bioware to market to females, and that's only after a lot of feedback. I'm afraid to say that you're the naive one if you think the mindset of an entire industry is going to change all by its lonesome self.

FINALLY! Somebody gets what I'm saying! And a woman at that, I presume? Excellent post! 

[AlphaDormante]

didymos1120 wrote...

It's basically like this: we're used to having all the money spent on "guy stuff" and all the attention from marketing and whatnot.  So, when a company actually expends any portion of their resources on content targeted at different demographics, it's perceived almost like it's theft: they're giving what's rightfully OURS to those other people!  What never seems to occur to anyone who gets all bent about this stuff is to stop and wonder why they feel like they were entitled to all that in the first place. 

I like your style, sir/madame.

ReconTeam wrote...

I just LOVE the smell of the "minor demographics" playing the victim card in the morning.

Yeah, crappy hands blow. But you gotta play the cards you're given to get new ones, am I right hurrdurr.

100k wrote...

FINALLY! Somebody gets what I'm saying! And a woman at that, I presume? Excellent post!

That I am, and thank you.

Modifié par AlphaDormante, 15 août 2011 - 01:01 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

AlphaDormante wrote...
Yeah, crappy hands blow. But you gotta play the cards you're given to get new ones, am I right hurrdurr.

Awww, you have it so tough don't you?  Those poor people don't have nothing on you.

[sedrikhcain]

I'm a man, so I guess in this context, I'm part of the major demographic. The marketing with FemShep doesn't bother me in the slightest. I have male and female shepards and I thought it was cool they decided to take the hype in a new direction for ME3.

The two things I find endlessly fascinating are how many women seem to hate Blonde FemShep because of her looks and how much flack BioWare has taken from self-proclaimed feminists SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOW DOING A FEMSHEP-CENTRIC CAMPAIGN.

I've never bought bioware's estimation that only 18% of gamers play as femshep. It sounds awfully low to me because it seems that nearly everyone does multiple playthroughs, using both genders. But if they really believe those numbers, and if I were a member of their marketing team, the next time someone recommends targeting a marketing campaign at women gamers, I'd be inclined to tell that person to @$@# off.

You cannot ask people to change and then tear them a new one when they do, or else next time they will just ignore your sorry butt. Believe me, as a member of an ethnic minority, I know what it's like to put so much expectation on a person or thing when you finally get represented somewhere, but some perspective is necessary. People seem to want the female shepard to conform perfectly to their sense of who and what a woman should be. It's one image of one character. Get real!

EDIT: Added missing word "take" in 3rd sentence.

Modifié par sedrikhcain, 15 août 2011 - 02:09 .

[AlphaDormante]

ReconTeam wrote...

AlphaDormante wrote...
Yeah, crappy hands blow. But you gotta play the cards you're given to get new ones, am I right hurrdurr.

Awww, you have it so tough don't you?  Those poor people don't have nothing on you.

I hope you realize that I'm not going to be baited into going "buuhuu see how justified I am in my complaining oh wait, I just made myself look worse ;("

Not that I'm unflattered that my complaining gets such special attention in comparison to all the other complaining you see around here.

Modifié par AlphaDormante, 15 août 2011 - 01:54 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

AlphaDormante wrote...
I hope you realize that I'm not going to be baited into going "buuhuu see how justified I am in my complaining oh wait, I just made myself look worse ;("

Not that I'm unflattered that my complaining gets such special attention in comparison to all the other complaining you see around here.

Actually I don't even know what specifically you are complaining about, but it isn't justified anyway I'm sure. More whining about the blonde FemShep perhaps?

BTW a "treat me special because I'm not a part of the majority of gamers" card isn't in the deck.

[shepskisaac]

ReconTeam wrote...

BTW a "treat me special because I'm not a part of the majority of gamers" card isn't in the deck.

The "treat me special because I happen to be part of the majority of gamers in this or that particular case at this moment" card isn't in the deck either.

[AlphaDormante]

ReconTeam wrote...

Actually I don't even know what specifically you are complaining about, but it isn't justified anyway I'm sure. More whining about the blonde FemShep perhaps?

No.

BTW a "treat me special because I'm not a part of the majority of gamers" card isn't in the deck.

Nah, I'm using the "treat me like everyone else" card.

[Inquisitor Recon]

IsaacShep wrote...
The "treat me special because I happen to be part of the majority of gamers in this or that particular case at this moment" card isn't in the deck either.

A shame I'm not asking for that. "At the moment?" You honestly think the majority of gamers ever won't be the dreaded white straight male?

AlphaDormante wrote...
Nah, I'm using the "treat me like everyone else" card.

AKA the "I want more options and unless I get them I'm being treated unfairly card?" I'm surprised you're not off rioting in London.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 15 août 2011 - 02:26 .

[AlphaDormante]

ReconTeam wrote...

AKA the "I want more options and unless I get them I'm being treated unfairly card?" I'm surprised you're not off rioting in London.

I'm surprised you think I'm going to take you seriously when you bust in here and make assumptions without even bothering to look at what we're talking about.

[shepskisaac]

ReconTeam wrote...

A shame I'm not asking for that.

Because you don't have to lol, you're already treated special compared to other gamers who don't happen to be part of the majority.

ReconTeam wrote...
"At the moment?" You honestly think the majority of gamers ever won't be the dreaded white straight male?

Sweet cakes, just look at the cinema. Transformers, Star Trek etc are being watched by pretty much 50/50 male & female audience. And then, look at the statistics of the gaming industry and the always rising number of female games. How much is it now already? 40%? As for the race, lul what? If we look at it globally, white gamers are probably already in minority when you have countries like Japan, China and India completly outnumbering the population of what is considered to be a 'white western world'.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 août 2011 - 02:35 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

AlphaDormante wrote...
I'm surprised you think I'm going to take you seriously when you bust in here and make assumptions without even bothering to look at what we're talking about.

I'm surprised you think you think this topic is such serious business. But your sound to me like one of those obsessed with the myth that companies need to go around pandering to gays, feminists, or whatever group is acting like spoiled children at the moment. The whole BlondShep thing has only shown how absurd this whole thing is.

[sedrikhcain]

ReconTeam wrote...

AlphaDormante wrote...
I'm surprised you think I'm going to take you seriously when you bust in here and make assumptions without even bothering to look at what we're talking about.

I'm surprised you think you think this topic is such serious business. But your sound to me like one of those obsessed with the myth that companies need to go around pandering to gays, feminists, or whatever group is acting like spoiled children at the moment. The whole BlondShep thing has only shown how absurd this whole thing is.

I think there's been plenty of "spoiled" to go around in all this. As someone else has said, there have been quite a few white, male gamers getting their knickers in a twist over the fact that women are daring to even speak about gaming. Their money counts, too.

[AlphaDormante]

ReconTeam wrote...

I'm surprised you think you think this topic is such serious business. But your sound to me like one of those obsessed with the myth that companies need to go around pandering to gays, feminists, or whatever group is acting like spoiled children at the moment. The whole BlondShep thing has only shown how absurd this whole thing is.

It seems to be the general consensus that all female gamers hate BlondShep, so I guess I should say that I don't. I don't even dislike her. I hope that doesn't ruin your carefully constructed preconception about me.

Either way, it'd be pretty pointless of me to defend myself against someone that's
already decided who I am, so I guess I'll just sit here and twiddle my thumbs.

[Inquisitor Recon]

IsaacShep wrote...
Because you don't have to lol, you're already treated special compared to other gamers who don't happen to be part of the majority.

Really now? Sounds like BS to me. I don't recall any developers listening to my specific requests or making games I would like to see made. I guess I forgot how I automatically had everything easy in life because I'm "one of the majority", I'm going back to my swimming poll filled with money now.

Sweet cakes, just look at the cinema. Transformers, Star Trek etc are being watched by pretty much 50/50 male & female audience. And then, look at the statistics of the gaming industry and the always rising number of female games. How much is it now already? 40%? As for the race, lul what? If we look at it globally, white gamers are probably already in minority when you have countries like Japan, China or India completly outnumbering the population of what is considered to be a 'white western world'.

Sweet cakes? Do try to show a bit of class, then again, that seems a lot to expect with some aspects of the community. Women playing games and watching movies! *gasp* So what's tbe big deal? It seems most of them aren't the hardcore feminist types who find sexism in everything they see. Transformers and Star Trek didn't need to do anything special to appeal to them just because they're women. In regards to race, if that were true everything would aim at Asian markets. But this isn't the case and even if it were, developers tend to focus on either West or East. Over-the-top action-heavy titles like Gears of War are selling as well as ever despite the opinion of journalist rags like the Escapist which would bemoan the lack of diversity.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 15 août 2011 - 03:02 .

[Boiny Bunny]

I sincerely doubt that Bioware's own data is incorrect regarding the 18% - if they had even the slightest reason to believe it was wrong, Casey wouldn't have used it in an interview - any other source (say a gaming news website) and I'd be dubious though.

Somehing important to remember is to not be biased by what you see on these forums (or any other forums).
Bioware themselves have admitted that forum users are a 'fringe group' and not in any way, shape, or form representative of the overall market.  These are the Bioware forums, so one would expect a much larger proportion of people here to be RPG players in general, and try both genders regardless of their own.  This is not likely to be so for any shooter fans Bioware have drawn in (which probably represent the majority of overall ME players).

[jeweledleah]

sedrikhcain wrote...

I've never bought bioware's estimation that only 18% of gamers play as femshep. It sounds awfully low to me because it seems that nearly everyone does multiple playthroughs, using both genders. But if they really believe those numbers, and if I were a member of their marketing team, the next time someone recommends targeting a marketing campaign at women gamers, I'd be inclined to tell that person to @$@# off.

acialy it makes sence for exactly the reason of multiple playthroughs.  you have female gamers playing both, you get male gamers playing both.  there are some male gamers that only playfemshep, but there are also female gamers that only play maleshep.  I don't think bioware counts players as much as individualy created characters.

that said, to the OP.  what I like about ME is that all characters, male or female are fleshed out, relatable (even aliens) and they all leave some sort of an impression.  YMMV whether its favorable or not.  its not Gears of war and its not Sucker Punch.  its not about girl power, or boy power, its about the story and characters, male or female - living it, changing it.

as for me, I origianly picked up ME becasue I heard it was good, because I wanted something new to play and becasue it was on a ridiculously amazing sale.  had no idea you could play as a female actualy, didn't know what the story was about, just that it was an RPG/shooter.  being able to play as a costumizable character was a great bonus.  what got me hooked on it was the atmosphere, the Voice Overs, for both Hale and Meer not to mention all the other characters, the fact that despite being a shooter combat, I could actualy play it with reasonable sucess and I'm a sucker for a nice space Opera, so the story completely sucked me in.

[sedrikhcain]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Somehing important to remember is to not be biased by what you see on these forums (or any other forums).
Bioware themselves have admitted that forum users are a 'fringe group' and not in any way, shape, or form representative of the overall market.  These are the Bioware forums, so one would expect a much larger proportion of people here to be RPG players in general, and try both genders regardless of their own.  This is not likely to be so for any shooter fans Bioware have drawn in (which probably represent the majority of overall ME players).

Yeah, I thought of that before I posted. It's the only element that makes me think there may be some truth to it. I don't trust anything that comes out of BioWare's marketing division anymore than I do any other company's. If they're telling you anything, it's not for truth, it's to serve their purposes.

ETA: none of this changes my main point in that post.

Modifié par sedrikhcain, 15 août 2011 - 03:19 .