303 réponses à ce sujet

[Heather Cline]

What drew me to the ME series? The fact that there was a video about female shepard and Liara and the lesbian relationship that was leaked out on Youtube. If it hadn't been for that, I would have never picked the game up. After that I picked up Jade Empire and KoTOR then out came DA:O and the ability to choose gender. Since ME2 was coming out I picked that up then DA2. I like having the choice of choosing my gender. I like being able to romance a woman while playing as a female avatar. I like the choices that Bioware gives you in a game.

Many games, rpg's and non-rpg's don't give you the choice of what gender to be, or if you can romance a woman while being a woman. This is why I'm loyal to the bioware games.

As for what they can do to emphasize the non-combat parts of the story. Emphasize more s/s romances. Emphasize that there is a choice on what gender to play.

This is what I want to see more in their future games and in ME3. I love the stories they write, I just don't like it when they remove content, like s/s romances or the choice to be what you want to be in a game.

[Abispa]

I find it humorous, ReconTeam...

LOL...

...that you are unable to read a simple, and short post and comprehend it. Ironic given that many of your posts reach epic lengths and I am sure you hope other spend the time reading them.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy in whining about other gamers whining, ridiculing it, and then whining about a box cover WHILE AT THE SAME TIME saying that the box cover doesn't matter to your and shouldn't matter to others. I find it very amusing you then tried to criticize me by bringing up a poll I neither took part in or even brought up. LOL.

And I demonstrated that the repeated typing of three little letters after every argument is, in fact, part of an established technique to insult other while trying to look innocent. Some people can laugh unintentionally while speaking, I suppose, but typing is a conscious decision.

[gamer_girl]

In all honesty, I think they should keep their poster child on the cover. When people think Mass Effect they think of Sheploo, pure and simple. To put someone else on the cover would make it less recognizable.

To be on topic though, I didn't even know Mass Effect existed until one of my guy friends told me about it. So glad he did haha. To touch on what appeals to me about it - well I like sci-fi/fantasy type stories already, and this one you can truly make your own. Instead of just being told what to do in the game, you end up being a big part of the adventure and can use your own personal opinions to form it. I also think the different alien species are really neat and I like the customizability of the character in stats, appearance, weapons of choice, etc. For the most part the voice acting is great, and the gameplay is super fun. The graphics are nice also (I'm not a huge graphics freak, but if good graphics are there they do make it look nice).

Modifié par gamer_girl, 13 août 2011 - 06:07 .

[SarunasAndSoOn]

even as a male gamer, i love games that have a kick-ass woman as the lead. something about it just makes it so much cooler than if it was a male. to be honest, most of my favorite characters in the ME universe are female.

[gamer_girl]

SarunasAndSoOn wrote...

even as a male gamer, i love games that have a kick-ass woman as the lead. something about it just makes it so much cooler than if it was a male. to be honest, most of my favorite characters in the ME universe are female.

You must like Tomb Raider and Metroid then haha.

[Ryzaki]

Frankly I thought the FemShep hubaloo was annoying. As long as I don't have to see her on my box I don't give a damn. I was hoping for another N7 symbol box. I don't want to see BW's marketing poster children. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 août 2011 - 06:10 .

[Clonedzero]

Abispa wrote...

I find it humorous, ReconTeam...

LOL...

...that you are unable to read a simple, and short post and comprehend it. Ironic given that many of your posts reach epic lengths and I am sure you hope other spend the time reading them.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy in whining about other gamers whining, ridiculing it, and then whining about a box cover WHILE AT THE SAME TIME saying that the box cover doesn't matter to your and shouldn't matter to others. I find it very amusing you then tried to criticize me by bringing up a poll I neither took part in or even brought up. LOL.

And I demonstrated that the repeated typing of three little letters after every argument is, in fact, part of an established technique to insult other while trying to look innocent. Some people can laugh unintentionally while speaking, I suppose, but typing is a conscious decision.

how is that hypocritical?
im not sure you know what that word means. seeing numerous threads complaining about something trivial and entering it to share your view on why you think it seems trivial isnt hypocritical at all.

you seem to be taking this forum and its posters too seriously. i suggest you take some time away from it so you can see that we're all just fans of a video game. theres no need to make personal attacks and be hostile. everyone has their own opinions and this is a place to share and discuss them. not yell at people and make personal attacks.

[Vanaer]

Clonedzero wrote...

catabuca wrote...

I long for the day when we're all just gamers, instead of female gamers, gay gamers, black gamers, older gamers, etc.

we already are.

you're the ones labeling yourselfs as something different.
when "female gamers" make threads about themselves and how marketing should appeal to them more, and blah blah blah. they're seperating themselves from everyone else, saying that they are different. that they cant possibly like the same things as male gamers.

they claim they want equality, but then demand they get their own special trailer and boxarts.

just seems a bit hypocritical to me lol

I think you're messing things up a bit.
You think it's hypocritical to ask for a woman on the box art. But let's turn it the other way around, why is there standard a male hero on the boxart - actually why are most hero's male? That's pure bias by itself.



There's the idea of equality in rights or equity and the idea of gender differences. The fact that you may acknowledge these differences does not have to imply that the equition isn't working - compare it with 1+3 = 2+2, there's a difference (there's no 2 in the left and no 1 and 3 in the right) but in the end the equation is equal. Why is it wrong to ask not just to focus on the 2+2 but also to give attention to the 1+3? Are you implying that there are no differences between gays and heterosexuals or between females and males?  Because as far as I know, it's still that statiscally there are differences (I'm not going into the nature/nurture debate here) and t hat there are differences in perceived feminine and masculine values.

That doesn't have to be wrong though - I have a hard time imaging a woman beating the crap out of a Krogan-like creature in real life (but I wouldn't discount it completely either); if you want a truly equal game you'd also focus on more femine qualities like their insight into social aspects and their herp-a-derp-less approach to a great many things.

But that's just my 2-cents, I don't think you'd do women right if you only add perceived masculine qualities to women, but no perceived femine qualities to males in the game. That would be an undervalue of feminine values.

Modifié par Vanaer, 13 août 2011 - 06:25 .

[Clonedzero]

Vanaer wrote...


I think you're messing things up a bit. There's the idea of equality in rights or equity and the idea of gender differences. The fact that you may acknowledge these differences does not have to imply that the equition isn't working - compare it with 1+3 = 2+2, there's a difference (there's no 2 in the left and no 1 and 3 in the right) but in the end the equation is equal. Why is it wrong to ask not just to focus on the 2+2 but also to give attention to the 1+3? Are you implying that there are no differences between gays and heterosexuals or between females and males? Because let's turn it the other way around, why is there standard a male hero on the boxart - actually why are most hero's male? That's pure bias by itself.

That doesn't have to be wrong though - I have a hard time imaging a woman beating the crap out of a Krogan-like creature in real life (but I wouldn't discount it completely either); if you want a truly equal game you'd also focus on more femine qualities like their insight into social aspects and their herp-a-derp-less approach to a great many things.

But that's just my 2-cents, I don't think you'd do women right if you only add perceived masculine qualities to women, but no perceived femine qualities to males in the game.

im sorry i dont think my post was clear enough. not your fault but mine.

i wasnt really talking about females within games, like female characters in games. being supporting cast, main characters, ect. all your points about that i agree with.

i was more talking about the marketing. seperating out this trailer is for females, this one is for males. kinda defeats the point. its the same game. if females are only buying a game because the trailer showed a female character rather than a male, then they are buying the game for the wrong reasons.

ive played many games with female protagonists. when i saw the trailer i didnt go "oh, its a female character, im less interested in the game now", i went "damn this mirrors edge game looks really cool" "oh wow, portal two looks absolutely amazing" "beyond good and evil? hell yeah, i want a unique looking action/adventure game with personality".

if you're marketing specificaly towards men, or towards women. its missing the point. if you're making a trailer which the entire point is to show a female protagonist to appeal to specifically appeal to women, then you're not doing the game justice.

games should be judged on their own merits, not whether or not it has a female or male character. a good character is a good character regardless of gender.

[gamer_girl]

Clonedzero wrote...

Vanaer wrote...


I think you're messing things up a bit. There's the idea of equality in rights or equity and the idea of gender differences. The fact that you may acknowledge these differences does not have to imply that the equition isn't working - compare it with 1+3 = 2+2, there's a difference (there's no 2 in the left and no 1 and 3 in the right) but in the end the equation is equal. Why is it wrong to ask not just to focus on the 2+2 but also to give attention to the 1+3? Are you implying that there are no differences between gays and heterosexuals or between females and males? Because let's turn it the other way around, why is there standard a male hero on the boxart - actually why are most hero's male? That's pure bias by itself.

That doesn't have to be wrong though - I have a hard time imaging a woman beating the crap out of a Krogan-like creature in real life (but I wouldn't discount it completely either); if you want a truly equal game you'd also focus on more femine qualities like their insight into social aspects and their herp-a-derp-less approach to a great many things.

But that's just my 2-cents, I don't think you'd do women right if you only add perceived masculine qualities to women, but no perceived femine qualities to males in the game.

im sorry i dont think my post was clear enough. not your fault but mine.

i wasnt really talking about females within games, like female characters in games. being supporting cast, main characters, ect. all your points about that i agree with.

i was more talking about the marketing. seperating out this trailer is for females, this one is for males. kinda defeats the point. its the same game. if females are only buying a game because the trailer showed a female character rather than a male, then they are buying the game for the wrong reasons.

ive played many games with female protagonists. when i saw the trailer i didnt go "oh, its a female character, im less interested in the game now", i went "damn this mirrors edge game looks really cool" "oh wow, portal two looks absolutely amazing" "beyond good and evil? hell yeah, i want a unique looking action/adventure game with personality".

if you're marketing specificaly towards men, or towards women. its missing the point. if you're making a trailer which the entire point is to show a female protagonist to appeal to specifically appeal to women, then you're not doing the game justice.

games should be judged on their own merits, not whether or not it has a female or male character. a good character is a good character regardless of gender.

I agree with you entirely, Clonedzero

[Arppis]

But... I like my women weak and needy...

[Vanaer]

Clonedzero wrote...

Vanaer wrote...


I think you're messing things up a bit. There's the idea of equality in rights or equity and the idea of gender differences. The fact that you may acknowledge these differences does not have to imply that the equition isn't working - compare it with 1+3 = 2+2, there's a difference (there's no 2 in the left and no 1 and 3 in the right) but in the end the equation is equal. Why is it wrong to ask not just to focus on the 2+2 but also to give attention to the 1+3? Are you implying that there are no differences between gays and heterosexuals or between females and males? Because let's turn it the other way around, why is there standard a male hero on the boxart - actually why are most hero's male? That's pure bias by itself.

That doesn't have to be wrong though - I have a hard time imaging a woman beating the crap out of a Krogan-like creature in real life (but I wouldn't discount it completely either); if you want a truly equal game you'd also focus on more femine qualities like their insight into social aspects and their herp-a-derp-less approach to a great many things.

But that's just my 2-cents, I don't think you'd do women right if you only add perceived masculine qualities to women, but no perceived femine qualities to males in the game.

im sorry i dont think my post was clear enough. not your fault but mine.

i wasnt really talking about females within games, like female characters in games. being supporting cast, main characters, ect. all your points about that i agree with.

i was more talking about the marketing. seperating out this trailer is for females, this one is for males. kinda defeats the point. its the same game. if females are only buying a game because the trailer showed a female character rather than a male, then they are buying the game for the wrong reasons.

ive played many games with female protagonists. when i saw the trailer i didnt go "oh, its a female character, im less interested in the game now", i went "damn this mirrors edge game looks really cool" "oh wow, portal two looks absolutely amazing" "beyond good and evil? hell yeah, i want a unique looking action/adventure game with personality".

if you're marketing specificaly towards men, or towards women. its missing the point. if you're making a trailer which the entire point is to show a female protagonist to appeal to specifically appeal to women, then you're not doing the game justice.

games should be judged on their own merits, not whether or not it has a female or male character. a good character is a good character regardless of gender.

Hmmm; stated in that way I can agree to it .

[Clonedzero]

Arppis wrote...

But... I like my women weak and needy...

i like my women like i like my coffee. ground up and in the freezer.

[gamer_girl]

Clonedzero wrote...

Arppis wrote...

But... I like my women weak and needy...

i like my women like i like my coffee. ground up and in the freezer.

.....................

[wizardryforever]

SpaceinMind wrote...

I'm a female gamer. My love of sci-fi and video games brought me to Mass Effect. I would like to see better male LIs in ME3. As much as I love being femshep, I play more maleshep because I like the romantic paths better. I don't expect more romances in ME3, but maybe a deeper continuation of them. Jenifer Hale does a great job for voice, she really completes the femshep experience for me.
I trust Bioware to make an awesome game so there isn't much more I want in ME3 besides a satisfying end to the series. I'm satisfied with the combat system.

Pfft.  Romance.  That's such a girly thing to want in a video game! 

I'm only half joking though.  Sometimes it seems like people think more about the romance than the main game experience.  Hopefully the stereotype of the romance obsessed girl isn't actually true for most women.  Though I suppose that it's a tribute to Bioware that they made characters interesting enough for people to want romance with them despite there being numerous problems with that (like those who want a Krogan romance, or a Legion romance ).

[Chun Hei]

@ wizardryforever -- Romances just have so many elements to discuss. There are just so many ways you can discuss and argue about how to shoot aliens with a machine gun. No matter your race, gender or orientation there are just so many different ways you can shoot something and nobody complains about their immersion being ruined if Shepard uses fire instead of cryo ammo.

Modifié par Chun Hei, 13 août 2011 - 07:56 .

[legion999]

Clonedzero wrote...

Arppis wrote...

But... I like my women weak and needy...

i like my women like i like my coffee. ground up and in the freezer.

You like coffee?

[Esselte]

After playing fallout and oblivion i was lukin for a new rpg (only gaming a few years) after a bit of research i came across ME2 (i did them the wrong way round) i love sci-fi and action movies massive starwars fan so it seemed a logical choice to pick this up. LOVED IT and was hooked.
I do like the strong character of femshep, however i dont think marketing separately m/f characters would make much difference,if a game is good i will pick it up regardless what gender i play.
I dont know about specific advertising towards women at the moment the way marketing and ads are directed towards females it doesnt appeal to me personally its too shiney (not in a firefly way). There have been instances where a female lead in a game have done really well but i wasnt directed at male or female it was just advertised the likes of perfect dark,bayonetta & lara croft 
Also RPG players know you can generally play a male or female character anyway just advertise the game and the quality of content will speak for itself

[cactusberry]

I got into Mass Effect because first I tried Dragon Age: Origins. I was looking for some games with good ratings, so I went to IGN and looked at some previews. I ended up buying Assassin's Creed, Oblivion, and Dragon Age: Origins. I finished Assassin's Creed and liked it. Oblivion and Dragon Age: Origins didn't look too interesting to me when they came. I popped in Dragon Age: Origins anyway and couldn't believe how amazing it was. I joined BSN because it told me to, and for awhile I only stayed in the Dragon Age section of the forum. I kept seeing people's signatures about Kaidan & Ashley DLC and many more other things relating to Mass Effect. I ignored it for awhile because I assumed it was just a FPS with only a male character. Eventually, I started seeing FemShep signatures which made me decide to pop into Mass Effect's forum to take a look around. I really liked what I saw, so the next day I went out and bought Mass Effect 2. (Yeah, fail.) As I finished my first playthrough I realized how horrible it was to have the game make previous choices for me, along with not knowing what happened in the first game. I gathered up some money and downloaded Mass Effect 1 off of the Xbox LIVE Marketplace. I finished Mass Effect 1 (Which was great!) and then uploaded the playthrough into Mass Effect 2. I had a much greater understanding of the plot now. So I kept doing ME1 imports to ME2 and now i'm addicted as ever. I still like Dragon Age, but I like Mass Effect a lot more. I can't believe I was missing out on so much.

...And that's my story.

[wizardryforever]

Chun Hei wrote...

@ wizardryforever -- Romances just have so many elements to discuss. There are just so many ways you can discuss and argue about how to shoot aliens with a machine gun. No matter your race, gender or orientation there are just so many different ways you can shoot something and nobody complains about their immersion being ruined if Shepard uses fire instead of cryo ammo.

Well to be fair, there is only so much you can talk about romance before it just descends into "talking for the sake of talking."  The main game experience is just so much richer than romance.  When it boils down to it, romance is actually really simple.  Person A meets person B, they talk and get to know each other, become friends, fall in love.  It doesn't have to end there of course and can be spiced up with drama and tension.  It's nice, but nothing to gush over, is all I'm saying.  :innocent:

And note that when I say main game experience, it's not just the combat (though that is part of it).  I'm referring to the story, the characters, the setting, and the dialogue.  I feel that sometimes adding romance needlessly complicates things, and dilutes a character when their defining characteristic becomes "love interest."  I'm not saying Mass Effect is like that, but it could be, and some people seem to be okay with that, and even want it.  Not to say that all these people are female, or that all females are like that.  It's just stereotypically girly is all.

[Arppis]

Clonedzero wrote...

Arppis wrote...

But... I like my women weak and needy...

i like my women like i like my coffee. ground up and in the freezer.

Haha.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

What drew me to Mass Effect? I'd been playing Bioware games for years, and while I could play as my gender they were always in the medieval/fantasy setting. Enter Mass Effect. Finally I could play as Aeryn Sun if I wanted. I could gather a team and we could be big guddamn heroes. So I pre-ordered Mass Effect 1.

There's always been the oversexualization in many games. The mono-gendered Asari? They aren't out of line. There are species here on the earth that are essentially mono-gendered and do not asexually reproduce. I don't have a problem with the Asari, once I got past the first time I saw Benezia (oh not this sh(* again).

We have Liara the nerd who becomes a badass. Samara the Justicar. Aria, the pirate queen of Omega. Whoever was commanding the Eclipse on Illium. The Asari Matriarch bartender, coincidently voiced by Claudia Black (also played Aeryn Sun in Farscape).

Most of the women are strong. All still have a sensitive side. Well there is that one in Illium trapped by Parsini who squeeled like a school girl. Parsini still owes me another beer as far as I'm concerned.

Combat was secondary. I started caring about the characters. Then they threw the Sophie's Choice at us with Ashley and Kaiden. Both choices equally bad. Some more varied moral dilemmas would be nice for the next one -- I'm sure there will be.

FemShep was also dynamite by Jennifer Hale. Hale really added life to the character. You felt like you were there. I did do a playthrough as John Shepard, but the voice acting was IMO too dead pan.

Lots of us women gamers out here. I think the gaming industry needs to take more note of that. A lot of us play shooters, but a lot of us like the RPG. I loved DA:O and DA2 (the story, not the reuse of caves). DA:O more than DA2, but we'll see what the DLC is like. I've got ME3 pre-ordered. I hope they continue with more adventures in the ME universe after ME3 -- it doesn't have to be the save the galaxy type either.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Nice post Cheez.

AdmiralCheez wrote...
And fellas, do you like the strong female characters in ME?  Do you think the non-combat aspects of ME3 need more attention paid to them for the sake of potential new players?

Yes and yes.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 13 août 2011 - 09:47 .

[Arppis]

Don't honestly care if women are strong or not, as long as they are well done characters. Women or men don't always need to be strong to be great characters imo. But heck yeah, non-combat aspects need attention!

[AdmiralCheez]

catabuca wrote...

I long for the day when we're all just gamers, instead of female gamers, gay gamers, black gamers, older gamers, etc.

Me, too.  That's one of the reasons I love Mass Effect: it does not give a flying f*ck who you are or where you came from, and on many occasions forces you to throw your judgments out the window and look at things as they really are.

Clonedzero wrote...
we already are.

you're the ones labeling yourselfs as something different.
when "female gamers" make threads about themselves and how marketing should appeal to them more, and blah blah blah. they're seperating themselves from everyone else, saying that they are different. that they cant possibly like the same things as male gamers.

they claim they want equality, but then demand they get their own special trailer and boxarts.

just seems a bit hypocritical to me lol

Then clearly, you don't undestand my intentions.

Female gamers are still kind of a weird minority.  I don't want to make us weirder or more seperate, but bring more into the fold.  Let girls who might be interested in the series know that, hey, there's more to it than the whole chest-pounding, adrenaline-fueled, shoot-em-up shebang.  That way, they might feel a little safer trying it out, and they might just find that they enjoy the combat as well.  And then suddenly they feel more comfortable with combat-focused games and aren't afraid to pick up more "masculine" titles.

It's not about giving special attention to gender barriers, but slowly chipping them away so that we share more and more common ground.  I want a world where it's okay for a girl to brag about headshottin' sum b*tchez last night at the Black Ops tourney, a world where her friends of both sexes think that's completely normal behavior for someone with boobs.  But in order to get that world, we need the marketing goons to catch on to not only welcome ladies to the party, but make them feel interested in joining.

I also want a world where men can publicly admit they're a brony, but that... that might take more time.  Girls Doing Guy Things is easier to accept than Guys Doing Girl Things in today's culture, but hopefully that will change.

As for the "Gears of Duty" comment: I know they are two vasty different game series, but at they are both heavily combat-focused.  We already have millions of games where the primary objective is to run around killing stuff.  While those games are great fun, they're nothing new.  Games like Amnesia, Portal, and World of Goo are successful because they not only do something different, but do it well.  Let's have some more of that--the new stuff, the innovation, et cetera.

Also, "girlfriends": I did indeed mean "friends of female gender," and not "those involved in my polyamorous gay love life."  While I have, on occasion, attempted to talk a few of them into glorious lesbian orgies, I have yet to achieve success.  Goddamn straight people.

EDIT: Clonedzero - Being able to play as a female protagonist who is not hyper-sexualized is a breath of fresh air for everyone, and the non-combat aspects of the Mass Effect universe have a much broader appeal than just to women.  Like you said, people mostly buy games because they look awesome, not because they feel appropriate to their gender, but so much of ME's awesomeness is wrapped up in what some of the marketing seems to be ignoring.  That non-combat stuff just happens to be what might get more girls into the series.

EDIT EDIT: I agree with y'all that I'm more interested in well-written, well-acted, unique and interesting characters than I am what set of genitals they happen to be carrying.  However, as shallow as it is, it's fun to watch chicks kick ass.  See when someone of one's own gender is engaged in ass-kicking, it's like "whoo yeah, go get 'em, chica/dude!"  When it's someone of the opposite gender, it's like "oh my god, that's hot."  Well, okay, it's reversed for some and a little different for everyone, but you get the idea.

That and my generation is still recovering from Disney Princess Syndrome.  Not that the occasional damsel is a bad thing, but like a popular single on the radio, overexposure can lead to loathing.  Hope it never happens with badasses.

Hm.  Should the badassery of Mass Effect be toned down a litt--NO.  BLASPHEMY.  BAD CHEEZ.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 13 août 2011 - 10:23 .