303 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Shepard]

Arcian wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

We should tweet the devs. It's the only way to be certain!

Oh my god, could you be any more butthurt?

I'm not entirely sure what situation this is referring to (I think I have a pretty good guess), but dev quotes/tweets have been taken out of context before, as well as taken as word of god when they shouldn't.

[AlphaDormante]

Carfax wrote...

LOL you are utterly naive.  Developers have been making violent themed games for DECADES!  And you mean to tell me in all this time, they just happened to be completely unaware that half the human population really wants to play these games but we never knew they existed!

You completely underestimate marketing..  Companies are always looking for new markets for their products, and they will search high and low for it believe me.

The people behind marketing would never be so dumb as to not exploit the biggest consumer market of them all, women, since women spend the majority of the wealth in every household.. 

I like how you think you're qualified to call someone else naive, complete with your condescending smiley faces and smarter-than-thou lectures. Spare me.

I don't think you realize the self-serving cycle that you're displaying right now. If you're "amused" by topics like this, what makes you think a marketer - a person whose job is to make money - would be any different? Pitch an idea like "advertising violent games to women" to any man and he'll laugh in your face, utterly "amused". And you expect a man whose job it is to sell violent video games to take it seriously?

Violence isn't advertised to women because marketing money doesn't fall from the sky, and marketers don't want to put money into a gamble when they have such easy alternatives in the male market. And we, as women, don't like to advertise ourselves as existing more than most people think, because we get ignorance like this and harassment from idiots who think we play video games for an online dating service.

Again, it's a self-serving cycle. It took three games for Bioware to market to females, and that's only after a lot of feedback. I'm afraid to say that you're the naive one if you think the mindset of an entire industry is going to change all by its lonesome self.

[Fission Chips]

I'm a female gamer (too old to be a "girl gamer", LOL).  I was drawn to Mass Effect not because of any notions about its female characters, but because I love Bioware games (and those from their studio-predecessors, like Baldur's Gate) and thought it looked like a fantastic game.  ME1 is the game I bought an Xbox 360 for.

I didn't even realize how amazing the FemShep playthrough experience is until very recently.  I must have been in a hurry to play this game, because my character from ME1 through ME2 is default-John-Shepard-soldier guy, he of the box covers and trailers.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

FemShep was also dynamite by Jennifer Hale. Hale really added life to the character. You felt like you were there. I did do a playthrough as John Shepard, but the voice acting was IMO too dead pan.

This.  It's really amazing how Meer and Hale's excellent voice acting can affect how you experience the game.  Playing as a male vs a female Shep actually changes your perception of your relationship with some of the characters.  For example, Tali's loyalty mission seemed to make her FemShep's best friend, but ManShep really just  wanted to get her mask off.  After I picked FemShep's "charm" speech option at Tali's trial, I was pretty surprised at how moving that speech was.  In my ManShep playthrough, I made the same choice and barely noticed the results.  This is a tribute to Jennifer Hale's skill, surely.

This game series stands out in so many ways, but I think what makes it great is a combination of Bioware's attention to small details that make the world come alive and their attention to NPC character development.  Pretty much everyone is interesting in some way, and quite a few characters are complete and utter badasses.  And a few of those badasses are female or asari and developed to the point where they feel authentic and real.  Liara is the clearest example of that -- she feels central to the plot of the story, even though she only makes a brief appearance in ME2/LOTSB.

This discussion is interesting (except for the trolls of course) and I hope it continues.  As far as marketing, Bioware just needs to show off what an amazing universe they have created, plus a little shooty-shooty-bang.  "Player choice" is a theme of this series, but I don't think it is the selling point.  People should buy this game because 1) it's fun, 2) it can be a moving and emotional experience just like the best movies/books, and 3) it features a huge world of interesting places/people/stuff that is very entertaining to explore.

[Carfax]

AlphaDormante wrote...

I don't think you realize the self-serving cycle that you're displaying right now. If you're "amused" by topics like this, what makes you think a marketer - a person whose job is to make money - would be any different? Pitch an idea like "advertising violent games to women" to any man and he'll laugh in your face, utterly "amused". And you expect a man whose job it is to sell violent video games to take it seriously?

Why wouldn't they take it seriously.......if it made them money?  But it wouldn't make them money, which is why they wouldn't take it seriously.

Marketing companies spend tens of millions of dollars each year performing surveys, statistics and risk assessments to help focus their ads to the most profitable consumers. 

If violent video games were popular with female gamers en masse, then it would be exploited, pure and simple.  It's not like violent video games are a new paradigm or anything after all, and it's not as though marketers are unaware that women are the most prized consumer market of them all, since they spend most of the money despite men earning the most..

Violence isn't advertised to women because marketing money doesn't fall from the sky, and marketers don't want to put money into a gamble when they have such easy alternatives in the male market. And we, as women, don't like to advertise ourselves as existing more than most people think, because we get ignorance like this and harassment from idiots who think we play video games for an online dating service.

LOL, you really must think marketers are stupid.    I mean, how could they NOT be aware that female gamers exist that buy violent video games.

Something must be holding them back right?  Of course, and it's that the percentage of these female gamers that enjoy violent video games is relatively far smaller than the male gamer market, too small to be worth the effort of a targeted marketing campaign.

Because in the casual gamer market, of which women comprise roughly half, marketers have no problem with exclusively targeting female gamers for products.

Again, it's a self-serving cycle. It took three games for Bioware to market to females, and that's only after a lot of feedback. I'm afraid to say that you're the naive one if you think the mindset of an entire industry is going to change all by its lonesome self.

Bioware had to be lambasted in to doing this, and they are among the most liberal of game developers.  They not only pander to female gamers, but gay gamers as well, and "gaymers" comprise a far smaller percentage of the overall gaming market than women do.

Besides, Bioware already had a fanbase of females, primarily due to having female PCs in their games.  Most other big developers rarely ever have female PCs in their games, and when they do, they are mostly over sexualized for male gamers to salivate over.

But Bioware actively courted female gamers over the years by providing female PCs that women would actually enjoy playing, and being.  Of course, that also meant that their games have become so politically correct as to be almost nauseating, but everything has a cost I suppose.. 

Anyway, we'll see how it goes in a few years.  I'm not against female gamers, but I'm not delusional either unlike most of you people.

[Reclusiarch]

Both strong and "weak" women have their place in a story so I enjoy them both. Just as strong and "weak" men have their place in a story. Well, weak may be the wrong word. "Normal" might suit better.

[breakdown71289]

^Same.....both genders have their place in a story, regardless of being weak, strong, level-headed, etc.

[AlphaDormante]

For the record, yes, I think marketing companies are stupid as a general rule of thumb. Mob mentality is an unsettling beast.

Carfax wrote...

Bioware had to be lambasted in to doing this, and they are among the most liberal of game developers.  They not only pander to female gamers, but gay gamers as well, and "gaymers" comprise a far smaller percentage of the overall gaming market than women do.

I stopped taking you seriously right around here, since your argument seems to pretty much consist of "there's less of you therefore you're not important", and more obviously, "You are silly, silly children being pandered to."

You're saying that because we're minorities we should be ignored, and when we do get attention, it's just a little pat on the head. With that kind of mentality, I don't see how I'm going to convince you of anything, but here it is anyway: Bioware wouldn't be listening to our feedback and "pandering" to us if they didn't think we existed.

So yes, they're taking a risk by doing this - but it's also turning over your assumption that "hurr hurr nobody has marketed to you before, so obviously nobody ever will". Please. Somebody has to be the first.

[AtreiyaN7]

My love for all things sci-fi is what really attracted me, and that's why I picked the game up. It seemed like it would be an intriguing sci-fi story, and I like BioWare games in general - heh. I'm a female gamer, so it's always nice to be able to actually play as a female.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

AlphaDormante wrote...

For the record, yes, I think marketing companies are stupid as a general rule of thumb. Mob mentality is an unsettling beast.

Carfax wrote...

Bioware had to be lambasted in to doing this, and they are among the most liberal of game developers.  They not only pander to female gamers, but gay gamers as well, and "gaymers" comprise a far smaller percentage of the overall gaming market than women do.

I stopped taking you seriously right around here, since your argument seems to pretty much consist of "there's less of you therefore you're not important", and more obviously, "You are silly, silly children being pandered to."

You're saying that because we're minorities we should be ignored, and when we do get attention, it's just a little pat on the head. With that kind of mentality, I don't see how I'm going to convince you of anything, but here it is anyway: Bioware wouldn't be listening to our feedback and "pandering" to us if they didn't think we existed.

So yes, they're taking a risk by doing this - but it's also turning over your assumption that "hurr hurr nobody has marketed to you before, so obviously nobody ever will". Please. Somebody has to be the first.

I don't want to promote his arguement or have you take it the wrong way...but hes right...in reality targeting the market majority is the smart thing to do...this is something I quite honestly hate about the last half decate of gaming, but its getting worse progressely, and although going out to please the minority in many cases is great...for the sake of the series survivability it may be better off against doing so ....although in terms of ME we are talking subtle changes....nothing to the nature of altering gameplay drastically (at least thats what I think we are talking about)...but returning to topic pleasing majority = more sales, more return customers, pleasing minority means more loyalist customers, but less sales and often much less in return sales.

Where was I going with this...something along the lines of....good for you Bioware for including everyone, regardless of whether it was pressured on you are not....just don't go overboard and do anything that will bite you in the ass...

I hope the series will continue with a new plot after we deal with this immediate reaper threat.

[legion999]

Carfax wrote...
Anyway, we'll see how it goes in a few years.  I'm not against female gamers, but I'm not delusional either unlike most of you people.

Can you be more condescending?

[AlphaDormante]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

I don't want to promote his arguement or have you take it the wrong way...but hes right...in reality targeting the market majority is the smart thing to do...this is something I quite honestly hate about the last half decate of gaming, but its getting worse progressely, and although going out to please the minority in many cases is great...for the sake of the series survivability it may be better off against doing so ....although in terms of ME we are talking subtle changes....nothing to the nature of altering gameplay drastically (at least thats what I think we are talking about)...but returning to topic pleasing majority = more sales, more return customers, pleasing minority means more loyalist customers, but less sales and often much less in return sales.

Where was I going with this...something along the lines of....good for you Bioware for including everyone, regardless of whether it was pressured on you are not....just don't go overboard and do anything that will bite you in the ass...

I hope the series will continue with a new plot after we deal with this immediate reaper threat.

I realize this and agree - marketers don't advertise to us because it's much, much easier and more foolproof to market to straight males. And I also realize that marketing to anyone else might as well be a revolutionary point in the world of gaming.

I disagree that it's bad for the series, however. Bioware is clearly not planning to throw Sheploo completely out the marketing window, and believe me, I'd be scratching my head in awe if they did. All FemShep is getting so far is a single trailer and a place on the back of the CE box, and I highly doubt that we're going to see "Have gay relationships!" in big, sparkling letters on commercials. It seems like everyone yelling "PANDERING!" has suddenly come under the impression that Bioware is going to stop marketing to their main audience, which is...baffling. They aren't.

We're not asking for a golden statue in Bioware's office. We're being gently eased into their campaign, which is apparently already so terrible that we have to be lambasted for it.

Modifié par AlphaDormante, 14 août 2011 - 10:57 .

[Carfax]

AlphaDormante wrote...

I stopped taking you seriously right around here, since your argument seems to pretty much consist of "there's less of you therefore you're not important", and more obviously, "You are silly, silly children being pandered to."

Thats not MY arguement, thats THEIR arguement.  It's a numbers game, all marketing is a numbers game.

Why would marketers spend millions of dollars in ad money on hardcore female gamers when they only comprise less than 10% of that particular market.

Compare that the casual gaming market, where females account for HALF of the audience and it becomes good fiscal policy to spend large sums of money marketing and developing games specifically for them.. 

It's not exactly rocket science.  If I were a dev, I would do the same thing if I wanted to keep myself in the black.

You're saying that because we're minorities we should be ignored, and when we do get attention, it's just a little pat on the head. With that kind of mentality, I don't see how I'm going to convince you of anything, but here it is anyway: Bioware wouldn't be listening to our feedback and "pandering" to us if they didn't think we existed.

I'm not saying you should be ignored.  I'm telling you the reason WHY you're being ignored for targeted marketing campaigns.

And I wouldn't get too cozy with Bioware.  They want your money just like everyone else, and only after years of lambasting did they finally break down and start taking FemShep seriously in their marketing.

I suppose this new strategy is now worth it for Bioware, as they have spent years building up a female fanbase, and their games try to target as wide an audience as possible anyway, including gays, and other sexually ambiguous folk.

So yes, they're taking a risk by doing this - but it's also turning over your assumption that "hurr hurr nobody has marketed to you before, so obviously nobody ever will". Please. Somebody has to be the first.

Like I said, we'll see.  It's easy for Bioware to do this because of the nature of their games.  Can you imagine a popular game like the Call of Duty series trying to market to a female audience? 

And CoD sells millions more copies than Mass Effect has and ever will.

Modifié par Carfax, 14 août 2011 - 11:01 .

[Carfax]

legion999 wrote...

Can you be more condescending?

Of course I can, but I won't because I'm such a sweetie pie

[Inquisitor Recon]

Abispa wrote...
I was pointing out the hypocrisy in whining about other gamers whining, ridiculing it, and then whining about a box cover WHILE AT THE SAME TIME saying that the box cover doesn't matter to your and shouldn't matter to others. I find it very amusing you then tried to criticize me by bringing up a poll I neither took part in or even brought up. LOL.

And I demonstrated that the repeated typing of three little letters after every argument is, in fact, part of an established technique to insult other while trying to look innocent. Some people can laugh unintentionally while speaking, I suppose, but typing is a conscious decision.

Either your English skills need work or you're trying to explain a hopelessly confused thought. Again, how is it hypocritical to point out the foolishness of those complaining about blonde femshep? Maybe you don't quite understand the concept of hypocrisy.

What have you demonstrated? That you're butthurt about Rush Limbaugh or something completely off-topic?

[Kakistos_]

Women comprise of 40% of the gaming market and the number is growing. Say what you will about "casual" gamers, this is a fact. If you cannot accept that fact then find a credible source to disprove it. Female, gay, and minority gamers are all part of the market and are growing and being marketed to more and more. Deal with it.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

AlphaDormante wrote...

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

I don't want to promote his arguement or have you take it the wrong way...but hes right...in reality targeting the market majority is the smart thing to do...this is something I quite honestly hate about the last half decate of gaming, but its getting worse progressely, and although going out to please the minority in many cases is great...for the sake of the series survivability it may be better off against doing so ....although in terms of ME we are talking subtle changes....nothing to the nature of altering gameplay drastically (at least thats what I think we are talking about)...but returning to topic pleasing majority = more sales, more return customers, pleasing minority means more loyalist customers, but less sales and often much less in return sales.

Where was I going with this...something along the lines of....good for you Bioware for including everyone, regardless of whether it was pressured on you are not....just don't go overboard and do anything that will bite you in the ass...

I hope the series will continue with a new plot after we deal with this immediate reaper threat.

I realize this and agree - marketers don't advertise to us because it's much, much easier and more foolproof to market to straight males. And I also realize that marketing to anyone else might as well be a revolutionary point in the world of gaming.

I disagree that it's bad for the series, however. Bioware is clearly not planning to throw Sheploo completely out the marketing window, and believe me, I'd be scratching my head in awe if they did. All FemShep is getting so far is a single trailer and a place on the back of the CE box, and I highly doubt that we're going to see "Have gay relationships!" in big, sparkling letters on commercials. It seems like everyone yelling "PANDERING!" has suddenly come under the impression that Bioware is going to stop marketing to their main audience, which is...baffling. They aren't.

We're not asking for a golden statue in Bioware's office. We're being gently eased into their campaign, which is apparently already so terrible that we have to be lambasted for it.

We live in a world where people overanalyze and overcriticize everything,  I never said they were going to stop trying to please the target majority, only that, it is very much a reality that on the global scale at least, anything more than subtle could be received badly, changes like this don't come all at once or anything, like I said I just hope they don't do anything over-the-top or w.e that can bite them in the arse...

I've seen games which have been incredible, for example...Xenosaga series...and died because of some of the directional choices they have made....religious/twistedly disturbing/story focus etc.... this game basically did a bunch of things which killed it, it had a great start but what was to be a mult-part series died at the third....although the devs did realize this and ended the story to a degree in the third, albeit very rushed....give a read, you'll see what I'm talking about...and how things, that may not seem major, can kill great games.

[Fordtransit]

What a topic! Blond femshep.. Well maybe this is the gaming industry future, getting pepole that dont play cod "run run run shoot run run run granade knife" style games?

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Women comprise of 40% of the gaming market and the number is growing. Say what you will about "casual" gamers, this is a fact. If you cannot accept that fact then find a credible source to disprove it. Female, gay, and minority gamers are all part of the market and are growing and being marketed to more and more. Deal with it.

Where did you get this statistic...I'm sorry but that seems much to large...unless focusing on a specific sect of gaming like the MMORPG...which in that case I wouldnt be surprised...but overall...its still a very much male dominated industry....

Its like football, sure some women enjoy watching/playing it, but for everyone that does, there are like half a dozen guys.

[AlphaDormante]

Carfax wrote...

Thats not MY arguement, thats THEIR arguement.  It's a numbers game, all marketing is a numbers game.

So telling us that you're "amused" by topics like this, calling us delusional, saying we're being pandered to, and being as entirely condescending as possible...and are now saying that it's not YOUR opinion, it's THEIRS. Right.

I'm not saying you should be ignored.  I'm telling you the reason WHY you're being ignored for targeted marketing campaigns.

And
I wouldn't get too cozy with Bioware.  They want your money just like
everyone else, and only after years of lambasting did they finally break
down and start taking FemShep seriously in their marketing.

Indeed. Am I supposed to take issue with this? Like I said, someone has to be the first. And I think you're confusing "lambasting" with "feedback they could have entirely ignored and continued marketing to the straight male gamer".

I
suppose this new strategy is now worth it for Bioware, as they have
spent years building up a female fanbase, and their games try to target
as wide an audience as possible anyway, including gays, and other
sexually ambiguous folk.

You know, the tone you take on when talking about "wominz and gay folk" makes me cringe. It's getting hard to take your arugments seriously when it feels like you're just slapping every minority into a box and labeling them "second degree existing".

Like I said, we'll see.  It's easy for Bioware to do this because of the
nature of their games.  Can you imagine a popular game like the Call of
Duty series trying to market to a female audience?  ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png

And CoD sells millions more copies than Mass Effect has and ever will.

I'm not walking into the "Gears of Duty" war, and you can't make me!

[AlphaDormante]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

We live in a world where people overanalyze and overcriticize everything,  I never said they were going to stop trying to please the target majority, only that, it is very much a reality that on the global scale at least, anything more than subtle could be received badly, changes like this don't come all at once or anything, like I said I just hope they don't do anything over-the-top or w.e that can bite them in the arse...

I've seen games which have been incredible, for example...Xenosaga series...and died because of some of the directional choices they have made....religious/twistedly disturbing/story focus etc.... this game basically did a bunch of things which killed it, it had a great start but what was to be a mult-part series died at the third....although the devs did realize this and ended the story to a degree in the third, albeit very rushed....give a read, you'll see what I'm talking about...and how things, that may not seem major, can kill great games.

I'm kind of confused that we're equating "marketing to people outside of the norm" to "making the series take dark, disturbing twists".

The changes ARE subtle. Good grief, all that's changed is that FemShep gets a trailer and a place on the CE box, and you can romance people of the same sex. Only one of those things affect actual gameplay, and none of them force the target demographic to acknowledge they exist. So can we please have our little corner (which is still a start), or is this somehow a huge series changer that I never knew about?

[Kakistos_]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Women comprise of 40% of the gaming market and the number is growing. Say what you will about "casual" gamers, this is a fact. If you cannot accept that fact then find a credible source to disprove it. Female, gay, and minority gamers are all part of the market and are growing and being marketed to more and more. Deal with it.

Where did you get this statistic...I'm sorry but that seems much to large...unless focusing on a specific sect of gaming like the MMORPG...which in that case I wouldnt be surprised...but overall...its still a very much male dominated industry....

Its like football, sure some women enjoy watching/playing it, but for everyone that does, there are like half a dozen guys.

It's not too large. Do the research.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

AlphaDormante wrote...

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

We live in a world where people overanalyze and overcriticize everything,  I never said they were going to stop trying to please the target majority, only that, it is very much a reality that on the global scale at least, anything more than subtle could be received badly, changes like this don't come all at once or anything, like I said I just hope they don't do anything over-the-top or w.e that can bite them in the arse...

I've seen games which have been incredible, for example...Xenosaga series...and died because of some of the directional choices they have made....religious/twistedly disturbing/story focus etc.... this game basically did a bunch of things which killed it, it had a great start but what was to be a mult-part series died at the third....although the devs did realize this and ended the story to a degree in the third, albeit very rushed....give a read, you'll see what I'm talking about...and how things, that may not seem major, can kill great games.

I'm kind of confused that we're equating "marketing to people outside of the norm" to "making the series take dark, disturbing twists".

The changes ARE subtle. Good grief, all that's changed is that FemShep gets a trailer and a place on the CE box, and you can romance people of the same sex. Only one of those things affect actual gameplay, and none of them force the target demographic to acknowledge they exist. So can we please have our little corner (which is still a start), or is this somehow a huge series changer that I never knew about?

I'm not going to feed your crusade here, but you will see from example...if you took the time to look at it...my point (reference to Xenosaga)...these things do happen...and if the number of responses from other people with either homophobic/sexist responses thus far on the thread hasn't been a significant indicator for you, I can't really imagine what else...and may I remind you, that the forum community despite not being representative of the mass, has large sway, as seen by feature additions, as well in another outside game example, in the change and what some call the butchering of the Killzone 2 games with the changes of Killzone 3...

I'm not saying you shouldn't or can't have these features, but there is no saying how it will be received, what may seem subtle to you, will not be subtle to others...I mean romancing itself was a major issue of conflict in the first ME game...(the scenes)

Just because from your perspective it is acceptable doesn't mean from others it will be...thats the whole point I'm trying to get across, and from that we factor in the majority view.

I'm approaching this as unbiased as humanly possible, you may not like what I have to say, but I cite past factual points and take neither side. All I hope for is they do it subtly enough to not cause an issue, to what point that is, I can't say nor can anyone really know.

I'm done on this topic for now, take from it what you will, I'm just exploring the very real possibility here, I don't intend to offend anyone.

[Carfax]

AlphaDormante wrote...

So telling us that you're "amused" by topics like this, calling us delusional, saying we're being pandered to, and being as entirely condescending as possible...and are now saying that it's not YOUR opinion, it's THEIRS. Right.

OK ok it's MY arguement.  But it still doesn't change a thing...  After all, the scandal of the arguer doesn't diminish the validity of his arguement

Indeed. Am I supposed to take issue with this? Like I said, someone has to be the first. And I think you're confusing "lambasting" with "feedback they could have entirely ignored and continued marketing to the straight male gamer".

No, they were lambasted.  After all, FemShep fanatics aren't exactly the most understanding sort of people to be sure.  I've been posting on Bioware forums in one form or another for over a decade now, so I've seen lots of debates and arguements about this subject matter over the years, and it's always been hotly debated.

You know, the tone you take on when talking about "wominz and gay folk" makes me cringe. It's getting hard to take your arugments seriously when it feels like you're just slapping every minority into a box and labeling them "second degree existing".

Am I that obvious?  Honestly, I don't mind female gamers at all.  My wife and my daughters are female gamers, but of the casual variety.  I've tried getting the wife interested in more hardcore games over the years, but she has never taken to it.

I have naught but scorn for "gaymers" however I have to admit.  The "fight for the love" crowd are the most annoying group of people I've ever encountered on any forum.

I'm not walking into the "Gears of Duty" war, and you can't make me!

What about the Witcher 2?  That game is amazing!

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Kakistos_ wrote...

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Women comprise of 40% of the gaming market and the number is growing. Say what you will about "casual" gamers, this is a fact. If you cannot accept that fact then find a credible source to disprove it. Female, gay, and minority gamers are all part of the market and are growing and being marketed to more and more. Deal with it.

Where did you get this statistic...I'm sorry but that seems much to large...unless focusing on a specific sect of gaming like the MMORPG...which in that case I wouldnt be surprised...but overall...its still a very much male dominated industry....

Its like football, sure some women enjoy watching/playing it, but for everyone that does, there are like half a dozen guys.

It's not too large. Do the research.

I did the research and found that you are 100% full of fabricated statistics...

Or to quote famously, "80% of all statistics are fabricated on the spot to support one's argument"

[Carfax]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...
I did the research and found that you are 100% full of fabricated statistics...

Or to quote famously, "80% of all statistics are fabricated on the spot to support one's argument"

If you use the word gamer in as wide a context as possible, then female gamers can certainly account for 40% and greater of the gaming market.

A lot of women play casual games, but very few play hardcore games.