613 replies to this topic

[Lestatman]

This is a thread simply for us who either don’t like 1 or more companions for whatever reasons.  I’m sure there will be comments like you don’t have to have them as companions if you don’t like them but here’s the problem I have with DA2 overall is the inconsistency of choices.  Some companions you can recruit some you can’t.  Some companions you can kill, some you can’t.  This inconsistency of choice is also present in the game story itself being a good example Leandra’s death and you end up killing both Meridith and Orsino.  You either give us full and more choices or you don’t.

Anders – in Awakenings I actually liked him and even then he had his views on the circle etc but my god in DA2 it’s gone way over the edge.  Whether in 1-2-1 conversation or when running around he goes on and on and on about and for someone like me who would support the mages normally even I get so fed up with it and wish he would shut up.  For some to blame Justice is a cop out since if you have a dangerous spirit in you, would you place yourself in situations where someone innocent could end up hurt as with the case of the innocent mage which given the selection Anders murders her.   Let me repeat that he cold blooded kills an innocent mage and what are you choices either to forgive him or send him packing.  What?  Where’s the option to hand him into the Templars or have Aveline arrest him.  The other thing is him getting you in Act 3 to gather materials for this so called cure of getting rid of Justice and then turns out to be a bomb.  Even if you have full friendship he still does this behind you back which shows a cold calculated evil intent he has regardless of the circumstances which again ends up with a lot of innocent people dying.   The good thing is at least you have a choice to kill him.

Isabela – a over hormone boy’s wet dream.  Seriously a pint of Guinness has more depth to it than she does.  On my 1st walkthrough my Hawke was overall nice to her without flirting or sleeping with her and even gave her the tome but in the end she didn’t turn up to save the day.  This is just after Hawke’s mother has been murdered and you’re facing a Qunari invasion.  So I thought at least in Act 3 I’ll get the chance to confront her for instance a random meeting in Wounded Coast but no you don’t and being cynical I wonder why?  Is it because those at Bioware enjoy having a female character being so loose?   Ok so in 2nd walkthrough I thought I’ll romance her and maybe we’ll see a different person and lo and behold at her last Questioning Belief quest Isabela she’s falling for you and gives the impression she’s changed but wait a mo upon meeting Zevran her legs part ways faster than the Red Sea.  I know there is a bug that lets you sleep with Merril/Anders while romancing Isabela but it seems romancing Isabela requires monogamy on Hawke’s part.  In case Bioware don’t know the meaning but Monogamy refers to the state of having only one mate at any one time, excuse me but doesn’t this seem 2 faced where Isabela wants you to behave in a monogamous way but it’s ok for her to go and sleep with Zevran.  I know some will say you can have a 3some but that’s not monogamy and what kind of relationship is it where you have to tell someone not to sleep around?  Either it’s poor writing or people at Bioware enjoy having her this loose.  Down side is you can’t kill her for her betrayal.

Fenris and Sebastian are so anti-mage its close to being racist and I don’t remember them thanking my mage Hawke for healing and saving their ass.  Fenris emo voice is so nauseating it’s like being stuck in a Dentists room with the Dentists drill going on and on.  Again inconsistent as you can kill Fenris but you can’t kill Sebastian.

Merrill – the bride of Satan.  Seriously she pretends to be this naïve cute little elf and then suddenly you don’t do what she wants she turns into this psychotic **** which could end up with you having to kill her whole clan.  Can you really trust someone like this.  I would sleep with one eye open if I was romancing her.  Good point is you can kill Merrill.

Edited by Lestatman, 13 August 2011 - 09:15 AM.

[alex90c]

Companions you don't like and why?

All of them.

HEY GUYS I HATE MAGES

o rly Fenris? stfu pls

HEY GUYS I LOVE MAGES

o rly Anders? stfu pls

HEY GUYS I LOVE SEX

o rly Isabela? stfu pls

HEY GUYS IM INNOCENT STUPID AND NAIVE FANSERVICE

o rly Merrill? stfu pls

HEY HAWKE IM GONNA WHINE

o rly Carver? stfu pls

It's like the only ones with redeeming qualities would be Sebastian, Varric and Aveline. The rest are just so extreme about one particular subject that they're just ... not fun to be around.

Bonus mention goes to Hawke himself since he's an ineffectual wanker who I hate.

Edited by alex90c, 13 August 2011 - 10:09 AM.

[Knight of Dane]

I don't hate any of them, i think all of them are good enough developed characters. As i tend to role play my games i like to think my different Hawke's feel differently toerds them.

I don't really see the point in hating fictional characters, i hate alot of people irl, no need to add to the sadness.
My only exception is Morrigan from the first game and perhaps also Velanna from DA:A, but those two are obvious, also for their fans.

[Tommy6860]

I await this topic to take on more meaning(lessness) when the DA2 defense force awakes to find this thread. And props to Lestatman and Alex for their posts, they hit this right on the head so totally.

[whykikyouwhy]

While I didn't so much "dislike" any of the companions, I didn't warm up to them all in the same way.

But looking at the vitriol already here, I wonder if we all played the same game. *shrug*

[Tommy6860]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

While I didn't so much "dislike" any of the companions, I didn't warm up to them all in the same way.

But looking at the vitriol already here, I wonder if we all played the same game. *shrug*

I don't see the vitriol at all, maybe it is a little harsh. They summed up their experiences and I think it is fairly accurate. Just because it didn't match your experiences doesn't mean they played a different game, they just saw it differently than you did.

[Tirfan]

Haha, Alex90c nailed it.

Although, I'd add Aveline to the list because she is so incompetent as a captain of the guard. And because she is portrayed as the lawful good character, but then approves of murdering people in cold blood.

[Gervaise]

Actually what I don't like is the Friendship/Rivalry way of developing characters or at least the fact that once it gets to 100% either way it locks and cannot change and certain dialogues only occur if you are one side or other of the scale.   I'd far rather you were allowed both the friendship/rivalry dialogue options throughout, so it can reflect you own character's modifying of their views if they occur.

So I started the game supporting mage freedom and quickly reached 100% with Anders, only to modify my views but I'm still getting responses from Anders as though I'm still backing him all the way.  To further a romance with him I had the option of "I think you're cute when your rebellious" - No I think you're seriously scary, or "I did it all for you" - Throw up - I support greater mage freedom on principle and because I'm a mage, not because I want to impress you.  When I tell him as a friend, make yourself worthy of the cause, that means "keep a lid on it mate," not "go blow up the Chantry".  He also maintains he's absolutely against blood magic and then excuses practically every incidence of it at the end of the game on the grounds "they are desperate," but are given no opportunity to challenge him on this.   So I don't like Anders because it is impossible to alter his way of thinking, only make him more extreme, unless you want to be totally pro-Templar, which is odd with a sister as a mage and even odder if you are a mage.  Beneath the charming veneer, he is cold, manipulating and pitiless.  I get the feeling that even if you were in a romance with him and were in the Chantry when the time came for it to blow, he would go ahead regardless.  So I take him at his word - don't love me, I'm too risky - absolutely.  If there is one companion in the game that I like less and less each time I play, it is him,  but if I'm not a mage, then the alternative is Merrill, so basically I'm screwed.

I consistenly end up as a rival with Merrill because she just won't listen to reason about her own issues and objects when I destory the evil tomes as requested.  I could feel more sorry for her if it didn't take so long for her to accept that she has brought most of her misery on herself.  At least I get to say, when she asks of the dead Keeper, "Why didn't you tell me," that "you weren't listening."  Object to having to take responsibility for her or have to kill her whole clan.  Haven't romanced her because I have yet to come up with a reason why my character could do this in good conscience.

I never really get to know Carver because he seems to take offence at practically everything I say at the beginning, so as soon as I get the opportunity not to include him in my line up, I do.  In any case you only get him if you are a mage, whereas with Bethany you can be either a warrior or a rogue.   I understand why he might have a chip on his shoulder but I just don't know what I have to do to get on his better side.  It would have been better not to have either sibling because I feel my character is limited in their choices at the end by the fact they are there - certainly in the case of Bethany - unless you have zero affection for them or they have joined the wardens.  It is also annoying that if you do feel a liking for them, then likely as not you will take them into the Deep Roads and then, unless you also take Anders, they die.

Everyone else I can cope with on a friendship/rivalry level but find it easier to be friends with Varric than a rival and with Isabella and Averline it either ends up the friendship side of average or total friends, depending on which quests I include them on.  I actually rather enjoyed some of the "cat fight" exchanges between the two of them.

Only with Fenris have I experienced starting off heading for rivalry, stopping just short of 50% and then the relationship gradually improving over the course of the game so we end up100% friends.  He is only really annoying if you include him in the same party as Anders and the latter is irritating in how he keeps trying to convert everyone to his cause and can't appreciate why Fenris might feel the way he does.  Fenris is also willing to apologise for his words/actions.

Romance wise I keep coming back to Fenris because, apart from in the Fade which I excuse, he doesn't screw me over on some important issue.  He actually does develop as a character and it is all the more satisfying that as either a friend or love interest he will admit that Hawke mage is okay (and he ultimately also gives approval to Bethany too), even if he still mistrusts most of the others, which is something of a breakthrough.  Why is his attitude to mages not understandable?   After all my mage (or Bethany) is the only one in his limited experience that hasn't either resorted to blood magic, done deals with demons, become an abomination or kept slaves.  
Second place goes to Isabella because whilst she is a ****, at least she is honest about it and she does do the right thing on more than one occasion and admits it is my influence.
Supremely disappointed that the only two characters who will actually move in with you are Anders and Merrill.

Would like to have had the opportunity to recruit cousin Charade, particularly if sibling had died.  In fact, is romancing you first cousin considered incest in Thedas?

[whykikyouwhy]

Tommy6860 wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

While I didn't so much "dislike" any of the companions, I didn't warm up to them all in the same way.

But looking at the vitriol already here, I wonder if we all played the same game. *shrug*

I don't see the vitriol at all, maybe it is a little harsh. They summed up their experiences and I think it is fairly accurate. Just because it didn't match your experiences doesn't mean they played a different game, they just saw it differently than you did.

That's my point. Different perspectives, but so very different, it seems like a whole different game was played.

And I would say it's vitriolic. It's all about how the "dislike" is being expressed. When we get into the whole "I wish I could kill companion x," that's a smidgin of vitriol.

And that is indeed someone's opinion - I didn't share that experience. And that's a bit of a shame for those who felt so annoyed by so many companions, imo. I had a good time playing the game. I don't get that vibe from the OP. *shrug*

[Esbatty]

Well Alex left out Bethany, I think he has a soft spot for her.

[mousestalker]

I'm not especially fond of Ser Jory. And the Tower Guard you get later on at Ostagar always looks at me funny. I'm thinking he's really an Orlesian spy. He also doesn't have a lot to say, which is more evidence he's up to no good.

Other than those two, the rest are pretty decent.

[alex90c]

Esbatty wrote...

Well Alex left out Bethany, I think he has a soft spot for her.

She's okay, just generally uninteresting. Only thing that really made her likeable was the fact that she wasn't insane, and the fact that ... well... everyone else was ridiculously unlikeable due to their over-the-top extreme attitudes/idiocy towards things.

I can understand Bioware wanting to make Dragon Age II darker, but their execution of their idea was just ... completely out of whack. They basically made everyone crazy and unredeemable, and then  they even threw the protagonist in that cesspool of awful personalities, plus the fact that I hate the VAs so whenever I hear Hawke talking (more so w/F!Hawke) I just want to pick up a spade and beat her repeatedly over the face while yelling at her to get a goddamn better voice.

Right, there's some vitriol for you guys.

[Lakhi]

Mr. Anders, Justice Mode and Sebastian. If we're talking DA Only

[Tommy6860]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

While I didn't so much "dislike" any of the companions, I didn't warm up to them all in the same way.

But looking at the vitriol already here, I wonder if we all played the same game. *shrug*

I don't see the vitriol at all, maybe it is a little harsh. They summed up their experiences and I think it is fairly accurate. Just because it didn't match your experiences doesn't mean they played a different game, they just saw it differently than you did.

That's my point. Different perspectives, but so very different, it seems like a whole different game was played.

And I would say it's vitriolic. It's all about how the "dislike" is being expressed. When we get into the whole "I wish I could kill companion x," that's a smidgin of vitriol.

And that is indeed someone's opinion - I didn't share that experience. And that's a bit of a shame for those who felt so annoyed by so many companions, imo. I had a good time playing the game. I don't get that vibe from the OP. *shrug*

And I respect your opinion. But because you had a good experience with the game, doesn't mean others cannot be harsh. I myself wouldn't really say it in those words, but I seriously could not stand Anders and especially Merrill with her hyper-squeeing giddy/evil talk, when consdiering her persona in the Dalish Origin from DA:O. I cannot say how many times wanted to slap her into talking like an adult.. It was so jarring. I was happy to rid of her as soon as I could. Now, I only played the game twice, so I am sure there may be more to it, but I couldn't do another when I tried. My wife liked it better than I did, as she played it (I think) about 5 times. She disagrees with me on it as well, but she likes DA:O much better.

[Ryzaki]

alex90c wrote...

Companions you don't like and why?

All of them.

HEY GUYS I HATE MAGES

o rly Fenris? stfu pls

HEY GUYS I LOVE MAGES

o rly Anders? stfu pls

HEY GUYS I LOVE SEX

o rly Isabela? stfu pls

HEY GUYS IM INNOCENT STUPID AND NAIVE FANSERVICE

o rly Merrill? stfu pls

HEY HAWKE IM GONNA WHINE

o rly Carver? stfu pls

It's like the only ones with redeeming qualities would be Sebastian, Varric and Aveline. The rest are just so extreme about one particular subject that they're just ... not fun to be around.

Bonus mention goes to Hawke himself since he's an ineffectual wanker who I hate.

Okay I like some of the characters you listed and I still can't help but nod in agreement with all your points.  

Though I would add: 

HEY HAWKE HOW DARE YOU SAVE MY LIFE AND MAKE ME A WARDEN! I HATE YOU!!! I'M MISERABLE

o rly Bethany? stfu pls

Edited by Ryzaki, 13 August 2011 - 12:38 PM.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The companions that annoyed me the most were Sebastian and Fenris. The others were allright, or at least tolerable.

[Arquen]

I personally hated Merrill. Not her fanservice, whiny, naive child-like spirit, but the fact that you wanted to just smack her. You wanted to grab her and shake her and be like, "where did you think this was going to go!?" - "What part of demons are bad didn't you understand?" As sweet and kind and *annoying* as she was it was an immense pain in the butt trying to get her to see anything but 2 feet in front of her. A personality trait that I just clash with. I honestly just didn't want to play mother hen to her. She's an adult, and can make her own decisions, but it isn't the fact that she is willing to die or sacrifice herself. I could care less if she did so. It is the fact that through her actions she endangers not only herself but her clan and her friends and everyone around her as well. Yet she refuses to see that.

Every companion has annoying qualities that get on me at times, but I find it makes them more complete characters. You can see the depth in each one. You can see the faults in each one. It just becomes way to apparent that people focus on nothing but the faults, and therefore don't see the characters as a whole.

I hated Merrill, but I took her with me, played her story, got to know her. It didn't change my mind about her, but I see the depth in her character. Wanting to help her people. Knowing about loss and sacrifice for history and knowledge. I get it.

As for everyone else I really have no complaints. Aveline gets on my nerves a bit because of her boisterous in your face attitude and her holier than thou phrasings. It was because of me that woman got where she is today, and yet she acts like *I* am a problem and a burden for her at times. Yet I respect her, and see her as a strong, respectful, loyal companion.

I absolutely love Carver. Of all the companions he is just everything a sibling should be. He is abrasive and melodramatic at times, but also very sweet at times.

Yeah, sometimes I'm wondering if I played the same game as others. Yet I think it all boils down to what you take out of it. If your an analytically inclined individual such as myself you tend to go through the game multiple times just to see the characters and story from different angles. If your just playing the game for the game, the story, the mechanics, the big finale and then moving on to something else then you are going to get a first impression and stick with it. Your going to click click click - stfu people I'm playing here! - click click click -- ohhh cool good story, but MAN those companions were annoying with their blabbering.

You get out of the game what you are willing to get out of it. I still see no reason for mindless hate though. Each companion is well written and has depth in the very least.

[Knight of Dane]

Arquen wrote...

I personally hated Merrill. Not her fanservice, whiny, naive child-like spirit, but the fact that you wanted to just smack her. You wanted to grab her and shake her and be like, "where did you think this was going to go!?" - "What part of demons are bad didn't you understand?" As sweet and kind and *annoying* as she was it was an immense pain in the butt trying to get her to see anything but 2 feet in front of her. A personality trait that I just clash with. I honestly just didn't want to play mother hen to her. She's an adult, and can make her own decisions, but it isn't the fact that she is willing to die or sacrifice herself. I could care less if she did so. It is the fact that through her actions she endangers not only herself but her clan and her friends and everyone around her as well. Yet she refuses to see that.

I lol'd at you for hating her out of your own assumptions

[ipgd]

Isabela – a over hormone boy’s wet dream.  Seriously a pint of Guinness has more depth to it than she does.  On my 1st walkthrough my Hawke was overall nice to her without flirting or sleeping with her and even gave her the tome but in the end she didn’t turn up to save the day.  This is just after Hawke’s mother has been murdered and you’re facing a Qunari invasion.  So I thought at least in Act 3 I’ll get the chance to confront her for instance a random meeting in Wounded Coast but no you don’t and being cynical I wonder why?  Is it because those at Bioware enjoy having a female character being so loose?   Ok so in 2nd walkthrough I thought I’ll romance her and maybe we’ll see a different person and lo and behold at her last Questioning Belief quest Isabela she’s falling for you and gives the impression she’s changed but wait a mo upon meeting Zevran her legs part ways faster than the Red Sea.  I know there is a bug that lets you sleep with Merril/Anders while romancing Isabela but it seems romancing Isabela requires monogamy on Hawke’s part.  In case Bioware don’t know the meaning but Monogamy refers to the state of having only one mate at any one time, excuse me but doesn’t this seem 2 faced where Isabela wants you to behave in a monogamous way but it’s ok for her to go and sleep with Zevran.  I know some will say you can have a 3some but that’s not monogamy and what kind of relationship is it where you have to tell someone not to sleep around?  Either it’s poor writing or people at Bioware enjoy having her this loose.  Down side is you can’t kill her for her betrayal.

This makes my head hurt.

Isabela does not require Hawke to be monogamous. The game mechanics require Hawke to be monogamous. While I was quite disappoint that Bioware passed up the opportunity for triad romances (come oonnn you did it in Jade Empire), especially considering all of the other LIs like Isabela well enough for it to be completely believable and also sort of "why the hell is this not happening" in Fenris's particular case, Isabela never actually tells Hawke that (s)he cannot sleep with other people. One can presume they partake in many a raunchy venture with persons outside of the active party. Hawke can, for the record, flirt wantonly and patronize the Blooming Rose and Isabela never objects.

I'm also a little baffled as to why being "loose" is a bad thing, or why she deserves to be killed for propositioning Zevran when you damn well know what you're getting into when you romance her; it's not as if she makes her sexual proclivities a secret. Also a little perturbed at the whole psycho 'I have to be able to murder companions I dont like' thing in general.


As for the topic: I didn't hate any of the companions. The only one I actively disliked on a personal level was Sebastian, whom I still believe is a well-written character with an interesting narrative role, and that is the primary rubric by which I grade the worth of a character.

On a level of characterization, the characters that I liked least were Bethany and Fenris; Bethany was just sort of passive and uninteresting especially in comparison to Carver, though given the fact her narrative role requires that she be as inoffensive and as broadly (personally) likable as possible, I understand why she is the way she is and I wouldn't particularly want her to be changed.

Fenris was kinda a case of an interesting character concept executed in a way that was... timid? He was, in a sense, just so damn reasonable given what he had been through that I had trouble being really engaged by his character in any meaningful way. He was potentially interesting when he was angry or lashing out, but then he would... apologize for it, and it was just like, "well, you know, I really can't blame you for any of this". He could have been so much more unhinged, given his history, that he just ended up like 'slightly troubled but ultimately harmless' which I guess is okay, but not very interesting to me, and something I personally think was an opportunity for a much more engaging character wasted.

He was not connected to the plot in any way, which I found myself missing quite a bit given how much more involved the other characters were. He had strong opinions, but was remarkably passive about them -- he was like that old war vet that sits around being passively racist but whom no one actually gives two ****s about, because he is the way he is because of something awful he had been through and everyone just gets it. I wanted to find fault with Fenris's views, but his character falls into that grey area of "his life sucked so much that I guess he's entitled to be a bit of a dick", especially given he never lashes out against anyone who is innocent or takes any measures to actually act against mages. I would have liked to see him do something like turn Anders and Merrill into the templars, anything to make him more plot relevant, give him more to develop away from and make me feel like there's a point to challenging his views.

His romance specifically disappointed me on two levels: one, that it was structured in a way that seemed like a better fit for Origins than DA2 (Hawke can't talk to Fenris about their hanky-panky for three years, really?), and two, that there was remarkably little conflict for a mage romance. I was a little put off by the fact I could essentially roleplay Danarius (which I actually tried to do when I romanced him!) and he wouldn't think it was, you know, a bit weird -- engage in some self-loathing or something, gosh. I mean, I get why such a huge variable couldn't be implemented in any satisfactory way, but it was a bit jarring. I felt a bit like Fenris would have been better off with not falling under the normal friendship/rivalry system at all, and instead prejudicially "friended" only rogues and warriors and "rivaled" only mages -- his character changes so little between the two paths (or even within one path; it was as if his post-slavery societal "rehabilitation" was for the most part already done before the beginning of the game, and I was speaking to a character whose significant developmental arc was already behind him) that I don't think anything would really have been lost if his friendship/rival paths as written were condensed into one and he were able to have free reign with his ****ry towards a mage Hawke.

His romance has a great dick joke, though.

That all being said, I don't dislike either Bethany or Fenris; my opinion of them trends towards apathetic at the very worst, which isn't exactly a great thing, but I'm not like, personally affronted by horrible they are and wish I could demand their writers be killed.

I absolutely adore Isabela, Varric, Anderps and Carver.



(gosh it looks like i'm back in the mood for long, rambling walls of text)

Edited by ipgd, 13 August 2011 - 01:30 PM.

[Neminea]

Aveline is the one that I have a hard time with. I stated before that I hate her, which is a strong word and not even completely true. It's just that she reminds me of a time when Xena the warrior princess was concidered a strong women. That you have to be a masculine, in your face, no-nonsense type of women in order to be strong. Though I agree Isabela is a.. how to word this nicely..bit free with her sexuality, she comes of as more of a strong women to me than Aveline does. Isabela doesn't care much about what others think of her, and does as she pleases, but in the end she does come through for you.

Anders and Fenris both can be annoying at times, but I can't help but love that about them. They have flaws, serious flaws, which only makes them that much better as full-rounded characters in my opinion. Heck there are things about my best friends irl that annoy me, the fact that they made these game companions with flaws like that only adds to my immersion.

I haven't kept Merrill in my party other then for her personal quests, so I can't really say if I like or dislike her. The same thing counts for Bethany/Carver.

Is there anyone who mislikes Varric? Anyone? *peers*

[esper]

I don't hate fictional characters there are enough person out there in real life that I don't feel the need to hate on fiction, that being said all the characters have personality traits that can get on your nerves - which is great because they are suppossed to have flaws.
The persons I like the least is:
Isabella - I just have a hard time with the thief persona she has - she is growing on me, however.
Aveline - At first I liked her a lot, but since I play mage I have a hard time in forgiving her for preventing Carver in trying for guard, and each time I play I realize a little what a currupt guard she actually is.
Bethany - She is not Carver. It is unfair to Bethany's character, but I came so attached to Carver that each time I try to roll a warrior or a rouge I stare at Bethany and think - you are not my grumpy little brother and restart that character.

My Hawke properly hate Sebastian. Not just is he ignoring the fact that she is a mage, he represent everything she fights against. That being said real life me like Sebastian's character it is very realistic - it is just not in character for my Hawke to let him walk out of Kirkwall alive considering who he is...

[esper]

- double post

Edited by esper, 13 August 2011 - 01:45 PM.

[whykikyouwhy]

Neminea wrote...

Aveline is the one that I have a hard time with. I stated before that I hate her, which is a strong word and not even completely true. It's just that she reminds me of a time when Xena the warrior princess was concidered a strong women. That you have to be a masculine, in your face, no-nonsense type of women in order to be strong. Though I agree Isabela is a.. how to word this nicely..bit free with her sexuality, she comes of as more of a strong women to me than Aveline does. Isabela doesn't care much about what others think of her, and does as she pleases, but in the end she does come through for you.

Anders and Fenris both can be annoying at times, but I can't help but love that about them. They have flaws, serious flaws, which only makes them that much better as full-rounded characters in my opinion. Heck there are things about my best friends irl that annoy me, the fact that they made these game companions with flaws like that only adds to my immersion.

I haven't kept Merrill in my party other then for her personal quests, so I can't really say if I like or dislike her. The same thing counts for Bethany/Carver.

Is there anyone who mislikes Varric? Anyone? *peers*

(bolding on my part)

I found this interesting, and by no means am I refuting your statement. I just always found Xena's "in your face, no nonsense" demeanor to be independent of her strength as a woman. That former aspect/quality was the warrior who was once a mercenary, a warlord, a hunter, etc. Being a strong woman, in her case, seemed to be the tempering of those characteristics. The balance of brash and compassionate as she developed as a character. Sure, she wielded a sword and chakram, and had an ample breastplate, but that was all veneer - a means to get the job done.

I guess I saw Aveline in the same way. Aveline's bluntness, her directness is built from her own sense of right and wrong. I didn't see those as masculine qualities, but just qualities that are necessary (perhaps) due to a certain station or position in life. Aveline trained to be a knight, wanted to be the knight that her father dreamed of, and adopted a certain view of law and order. All of that dictates her demeanor. But it's not inherently masculine. And it doesn't mark her as a strong woman. That, for her (and imo, of course) comes from her loyalty, her conviction, her devotion to her concept of honor, her growing affection for the people she worked with and fought with. There's strength as prowess in her fighting ability, but it's that well rounded combo of the sword and the heart that seems to me to be her true strength.

Again, not refuting. It was an interesting comparison is all. And made me think back to my XWP-viewing days.

Oh, and I think ipgd commented nicely on Isabela. Nothing more need be said.

[Arquen]

LOL, ipgd ... If only others could give such good reasons for disliking Fenris as that. You want him *MORE* violent and unhinged. I gigglesnorted. Most people dislike him because they see him as too violent and unhinged. I have to applaud your unique approach to it for sure, LOL.

@ Knight of Dane -- I'm confused if that was an insult or a "you don't get her at all!" statement. If anything it didn't defend Merrill to me much. I have walked up and down and all around with her character and I just don't like her. Everything from her physical look to her voice to her whole personal story of single handedly wanting to restore culture and knowledge to her people by any means necessary. I do not like her *shrug*

[ipgd]

Arquen wrote...

LOL, ipgd ... If only others could give such good reasons for disliking Fenris as that. You want him *MORE* violent and unhinged. I gigglesnorted. Most people dislike him because they see him as too violent and unhinged. I have to applaud your unique approach to it for sure, LOL.

Well, I maintain that there is a distinction between a likeable person and a good character. The things I suggested would make me personally dislike Fenris more (or maybe not, given how absolutely endearing I find the times when Anders acts like he would be more at home in Mean Girls than Dragon Age), but I feel it would have made him a stronger and more literarily interesting character. I wish I could have hated Fenris -- I just don't feel much of anything for him, beyond a mild sense of pity that pretty much overrides any inclination I might have to judge him more harshly.

Edited by ipgd, 13 August 2011 - 02:12 PM.