613 réponses à ce sujet

[Time4Tiddy]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I would much prefer to explore a more moderate version of this question, where the threat was less dire and the regime less compassionlessly authoritarian. I'd actually enjoy a version of this question where the templars were relatively compassionate and well-regulated, but there were fewer blood mages. Or a version where there was a visible progressive movement within the templars that I could openly support, while also supporting continued templar presence. Or something that isn't blatantly approving of authoritarianism.

On this subject, I was really annoyed that I was forced to KILL the templars and mages who were secretly meeting together to discuss how to change the system.  I would much rather have been able to listen in, hear what they were planning, maybe even encourage their action.  It seemed like they recognized that Meredith was out of control and were conspiring to have her removed from power.  And yet at that first Hightown meeting that you uncover, you kill them all, with no peaceful option at all.  And then of course it turns to the kidnapping and crazy Grace and once again the mages are just blood magic/insane.

[sylvanaerie]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I would much prefer to explore a more moderate version of this question, where the threat was less dire and the regime less compassionlessly authoritarian. I'd actually enjoy a version of this question where the templars were relatively compassionate and well-regulated, but there were fewer blood mages. Or a version where there was a visible progressive movement within the templars that I could openly support, while also supporting continued templar presence. Or something that isn't blatantly approving of authoritarianism.

On this subject, I was really annoyed that I was forced to KILL the templars and mages who were secretly meeting together to discuss how to change the system.  I would much rather have been able to listen in, hear what they were planning, maybe even encourage their action.  It seemed like they recognized that Meredith was out of control and were conspiring to have her removed from power.  And yet at that first Hightown meeting that you uncover, you kill them all, with no peaceful option at all.  And then of course it turns to the kidnapping and crazy Grace and once again the mages are just blood magic/insane.

This.  Yes.  There was no middle ground to meet.  Everyone in Kirkwall is so over the top nucking futs, that even the moderates end up looking like whack jobs.  Or else what could start as a moderate situation ends up out of control.

I would have liked the option for the quest to do more than "Kill Random Apostate Bob" and "Kill Templar Rebel Joe", with some intrigue and subtle build up, instead of being hit over the head with the "Everyone is crazy" sign.  And heck maybe even an opportunity to join their cause would have been nice.  

Even the one quest we can do (if choosing a side at the blow up in the beginning of the act) is pretty pointless, as it has no impact on the story at all (I have only chosen to support Orsino in that first argument so I can't speak for what happens if you choose Meredith instead, she's too whacko for any of my PC's to support).  All I ended up doing was killing some templars and nobles who were at odds on who to support, Meredith or no Meredith.

Later, Thrask and co still kidnap my sibling and think I'm working for Meredith.  Hell, even if I sided mages all along, they STILL think I'm working for Meredith.

Act 3 is easily the weakest in story logic, requiring a lot more patience to wade through the insanity that is Kirkwall.

[Gamer Ftw]

Aveline, to me she's not a strong female character she's a violent hypocrite bully.
Wonder how long she would stay guard captian if I told everyone she worked with smugglers or killed people for the Red Iron with me.
Attacks Hawke for for being a rival yeah cause if someone disagrees with you viciously attacking them is the way to go.
not allowing hawke to fight back is lame.
Enjoy your plot armor loser I killed you in my head a million times.

[Xilizhra]

Later, Thrask and co still kidnap my sibling and think I'm working for Meredith. Hell, even if I sided mages all along, they STILL think I'm working for Meredith.

Really? Has your game been patched? They told me they thought I was a spy for Orsino.

[happy_daiz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Later, Thrask and co still kidnap my sibling and think I'm working for Meredith. Hell, even if I sided mages all along, they STILL think I'm working for Meredith.

Really? Has your game been patched? They told me they thought I was a spy for Orsino.

I'm on 360, and regardless of previous choices (Meredith vs. Orsino), they think I'm working for Meredith. Patched to V1.02. Maybe this is a platform-specific issue?

[Xilizhra]

Maybe so; I have PC.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

The "everyone in Kirkwall is crazy" thing bothers me, partially because they don't sell it enough. I'm down with Innsmouth, or any of the other half-dozen madness-inducing townships in the C'thulu mythos. I think it would have been a really interesting game if Kirkwall's cursed nature had more meat to it... if we saw people failing sanity rolls as they spent more time here, whispers of dark things below the waves, that sort of thing. If they made the madness an awesome preternatural phenomenon, it would be a lot less frustrating when nobody remembers how to think.

[sylvanaerie]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

The "everyone in Kirkwall is crazy" thing bothers me, partially because they don't sell it enough. I'm down with Innsmouth, or any of the other half-dozen madness-inducing townships in the C'thulu mythos. I think it would have been a really interesting game if Kirkwall's cursed nature had more meat to it... if we saw people failing sanity rolls as they spent more time here, whispers of dark things below the waves, that sort of thing. If they made the madness an awesome preternatural phenomenon, it would be a lot less frustrating when nobody remembers how to think.

That would have been fun.  Maybe have a side quest where Hawke goes off the deep end where the player can't tell what's 'real' and what's fantasy, like in the fade.  There are far too many missed opportunities for something really cool in the game like that.  A pity that most of that information is just filed away in small codex entries and not really discussed in game to bring it out more.

I loved playing CoC, but haven't in years.    I used to tease my gamemaster about the 'mutant junkie moth' explanation my whacko had for all the weirdness.

[FaeQueenCory]

I really only hate Fenris... and only because, no matter what, even sleeping with and "falling in love"... he will always hate you just because you were born a mage.
If he had been characterized to, by the end of the game, have gotten over his ridiculous homopho-err-I mean magephobia... I wouldn't mind his extremely nauseating bigotry.
Because there is the option for him to "get better".
Merrill grows by eventually regretting everything she had done in the name of love... (that's national love, btw)
Anders devolves more and more into insanity as Justice and him become more and more indistinguishable...
Isabella becomes less of a slattern if you romance her "correctly"... even going so far as to be thinking about all that "love" crap that she swore off of years ago! (albeit this only happens if you romance her, but if Fenris, being constantly surrounded by non-magister mages, who's close friend is very promage -Donnic is alluded to be so in banter- never grows up and has his bigotry even EVER SO SLIGHTLY change.... uhg!)

Basically I hate him because he is a horrible character. The roles of characters are to grow and affect and be affected by the story... but he doesn't ever change! He doesn't get more accepting, he doesn't get more hating... he REMAINS THE SAME!

All the other characters grow. (either positively or negatively) But his lack of character growth is what really makes me detest him.
(I even made him 100% rivalry and sided with the mages... just to see what he'd say about it all, knowing that because he's 100%, he'd follow.... and what did I get? "I still ****ing hate all mages, but I'll do this.... even though you're stupid for wanting to do this." Not a direct quote.. but you get the idea.)

Modifié par FaeQueenCory, 22 août 2011 - 05:50 .

[Halie Star]

Actually I liked all the characters. I really had fun with them.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Fenris - whiney emo former-slave boy
Anders - whiney revolutionary wannabe boy
Sebastian - whiney chantry alter boy

I want to punch the lot of them. I get really sick of listening to them harp on about whatever chip they have on their respective shoulders. At least I got to kill Fenris at the end of the game.

[Carmen_Willow]

Isabella - Can't trust her and she sleeps with Fenris if I don't (B****!) Even romancing her and all that. I don't hate her, she's just not someone I'd hang with.
Sebastian - I really wanted to like him, after all, he's cute and wears shiny armor, but when he wanted to turn all the apostates in my party in to the Templars but didn't have the stuffin' to do it himself, he kinda lost me forever too.
I just wish there were another true archer in the game. I love Varrick, but a cross-bow just isn't the same thing.
And Merrill- I just have no use for someone who cannot look at a situation objectively, learn from new data and reach a better conclusion. She's wacko and not in an entertaining way like Leliana was. Her romance is the sweetest, but it's not worth it because you have to tell her such illogical BS to get there.

[Xilizhra]

And Merrill- I just have no use for someone who cannot look at a situation objectively, learn from new data and reach a better conclusion. She's wacko and not in an entertaining way like Leliana was. Her romance is the sweetest, but it's not worth it because you have to tell her such illogical BS to get there.

You do realize she gives up the mirror obsession of her own accord on the friendship path, yes?
I also find it hard to see how Merrill is "wacko" and Fenris isn't...

[Carmen_Willow]

Xilizhra wrote...

And Merrill- I just have no use for someone who cannot look at a situation objectively, learn from new data and reach a better conclusion. She's wacko and not in an entertaining way like Leliana was. Her romance is the sweetest, but it's not worth it because you have to tell her such illogical BS to get there.

You do realize she gives up the mirror obsession of her own accord on the friendship path, yes?
I also find it hard to see how Merrill is "wacko" and Fenris isn't...

Sorry, it's been so long since I've gone friendship with her that if I knew she gave it up, I've forgotten. They are both obsessed, I'll grant you that, but Fenris can usually make a rational argument for all his hate.  The abominations and blood mages trying to drain you dry pretty much prove his point.  There's no proof in the game that the mirror is going to save Merril's people.  All evidence points to the opposite conclusion, but she just doesn't get it.  Drives me crazy.

[berelinde]

Every LI in the game has a concept they just don't get. It's more a question of whether you're sympathetic to their not getting it.

[Carmen_Willow]

berelinde wrote...

Every LI in the game has a concept they just don't get. It's more a question of whether you're sympathetic to their not getting it.

That is a very valid point!

[Xilizhra]

Sorry, it's been so long since I've gone friendship with her that if I knew she gave it up, I've forgotten. They are both obsessed, I'll grant you that, but Fenris can usually make a rational argument for all his hate. The abominations and blood mages trying to drain you dry pretty much prove his point. There's no proof in the game that the mirror is going to save Merril's people. All evidence points to the opposite conclusion, but she just doesn't get it. Drives me crazy.

I've never heard a single rational argument from Fenris. It's either alarmist speculation about Tevinter or outright delusions.

[Carmen_Willow]

Xilizhra wrote...

Sorry, it's been so long since I've gone friendship with her that if I knew she gave it up, I've forgotten. They are both obsessed, I'll grant you that, but Fenris can usually make a rational argument for all his hate. The abominations and blood mages trying to drain you dry pretty much prove his point. There's no proof in the game that the mirror is going to save Merril's people. All evidence points to the opposite conclusion, but she just doesn't get it. Drives me crazy.

I've never heard a single rational argument from Fenris. It's either alarmist speculation about Tevinter or outright delusions.

The argument is in the number of mages in the game of whom I have personal knowledge who either become abominations, or blood mages (who use that power to create the red circle of death).  Oh and there's also the dead slaves lying about that Hardianna murders in an attempt to get enough power to stop me.  I don't need the additional proof of his Tevinter theory.  The game provides me with plenty of empirical evidence. Fenris says that when stressed enough any mage will turn to demons and/or blood magic.  In game evidence supports his hypothesis (I am the outlier as I do not become an abomination nor do I practice blood magic.)

I get no empirical evidence in the game that the mirror is good. All evidence presented in game (which is admittedly scanty) says otherwise; i.e., Tamlen is killed as a result of the mirror. I am given no Tomes, no books, no scrolls or anything that hint that the mirror is going to be the salvation of the elves. But Merril thinks it will be based on---nothing? A demon's testimony? 

Hey this is just my opinion. You think Fenris is wacko?  He's wacko! It's just that he is logical in his wackoness!  Merrill is just not logical in her argument and it drives me wacko!

[UltiPup]

Xilizhra wrote...

Sorry, it's been so long since I've gone friendship with her that if I knew she gave it up, I've forgotten. They are both obsessed, I'll grant you that, but Fenris can usually make a rational argument for all his hate. The abominations and blood mages trying to drain you dry pretty much prove his point. There's no proof in the game that the mirror is going to save Merril's people. All evidence points to the opposite conclusion, but she just doesn't get it. Drives me crazy.

I've never heard a single rational argument from Fenris. It's either alarmist speculation about Tevinter or outright delusions.

His rationale is something only he sees though. He lived in the worst possible conditions for making a mage hater. He owes all of his pain to a mage. Every day in Tevinter he saw the evils of magic. He does realize magic has its uses and only weak mages fall prey to blood magic and demons. He just doesn't see many mages as being "strong" when he grew up in the land of insane blood mages.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Aveline: She's just so self righteous, i can't stand her.
Anders: He really is way too whiney.

[Xilizhra]

Hey this is just my opinion. You think Fenris is wacko? He's wacko! It's just that he is logical in his wackoness! Merrill is just not logical in her argument and it drives me wacko!

I don't see Merrill as illogical. I do find it odd that you trust an abomination's word on the matter.

[Carmen_Willow]

Xilizhra wrote...

Hey this is just my opinion. You think Fenris is wacko? He's wacko! It's just that he is logical in his wackoness! Merrill is just not logical in her argument and it drives me wacko!

I don't see Merrill as illogical. I do find it odd that you trust an abomination's word on the matter.

You lost me.  Which abomination's word am I taking?

[Xilizhra]

Marethari's.

[Carmen_Willow]

Xilizhra wrote...

Marethari's.

If I remember correctly, she doesn't become an abomination until the 3rd act.  I think she tells Merrill that the mirror is cursed long before that.

[Xilizhra]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Marethari's.

If I remember correctly, she doesn't become an abomination until the 3rd act.  I think she tells Merrill that the mirror is cursed long before that.

She says it's tainted, which it isn't, as we can tell from the total lack of ghouls in the Alienage.