613 réponses à ce sujet

[esper]

I try to play awakening to finish some of my da:o characters for da2, but everytime da:a Anders speaks I want to hit him in the head and say "You don't sound like Anders" and "Grow up and grow a spine, already." I really, really can't stand da:a, Anders anymore.

[Drone696]

 For me, DAA Anders is just tragic if you know how his story continues.

[mya11]

For dragon age nothing they are so cool

For dragon age 2:

Anders he was so funny in Awakening but in Dragon age 2, so tragic and he lose in humour a big
deception for me !

[BroBear Berbil]

Tidra wrote...

OnionXI wrote...

Tidra wrote...

OnionXI wrote...

Anders - Not really even the same person that was in Awakening. After Nathaniel he was my next favorite but in DA2 I just can't deal with all his whining about templars. On top of that it kind of pisses me off that he complains so much about having been a Warden after I did so much for him in Awakening to the point where he was accepting of it. Him, and Justice for that matter, are dead to me.

Point. Missing it.

Nah, I get the point - I just don't like it. They destroyed a really good character and made him a terrorist among other things.

They should have used his original voice actor too. idc if he's Cullen as well.

Lol. Greg Ellis was not even that great at Awakening Anders. I'm sorry, but his voice acting was so overdone and way too "goofy" sounding. It was painful to listen to. He could have done more to show Anders distaste about the Templars while still being sarcastic and funny, but that cynicism that Anders had underneath the surface was rarely shown over the "I'm trying to change my voice for a different character" persona he took on while he was voice acting Anders. Just not that great, honestly.

And, lol...the writers did not destroy Anders. Him blowing up the Chantry does not = Anders is destroyed. If anything, he is stronger. He has taken a stand against an organization that has oppressed him, and people like him for THOUSANDS of years. He isn't going to take this **** anymore, and if he is called a terrorist for that - he is fine with it. And so am I.

Anyways. I also hate threads like this in general. It breeds more "WAH DA2 SUCKED" people. Instead of talking about how much you hate a character, why don't you try talking about why they developed these aspects you all hate so much to better understand why they are the way they are. (or here's a crazy thought: talk about what you liked) Boiling characters down into 1 word descriptions (Anders is a terrorist, Fenris is a dick, Isabela is a ****, Merrill is stupid) is idiotic and it only shows that the majority of you who do this have no ****ing clue what you're talking about or just don't care to understand. And I say that because several posts on here were basically just that. "I didn't like so and so, because they were stupid. The end." Good job!

There are plenty of threads in this section about which characters you love and want to draw pictures of. I'm not sure why the idea of one thread that is about the opposite is so offensive. Not liking a character doesn't mean the person just doesn't understand that character.

For example, Anders. I understand his motivations and why he does what he does. I also understand that every conflict he had with the templars after his Joining was because he went looking for it. Remember Rylock? Still, I helped him out with his templar issues back then and by the end of Awakening I figured I finally earned his loyalty and dedication to the Wardens - the game even told me as much.

DA2 rolls around and it's "blighted Wardens" this and "oppressive Templars" that. He must have been a Warden for six months. In my assessment "destroyed" is a fair description for the Anders I was familiar with. As the game progresses there's even less of Anders and more of Justice. By act 3 he loses all of his redeeming humor. I thought Justice was a pretty "meh" character in Awakening so I wasn't crazy about him becoming the dominant personality of a character I liked. I've seen people call it getting a backbone or being stronger as the game progresses but I see it as a descent into losing himself more and more.

If I look at Anders in just DA2 and try to block out my perspective from Awakening it really just boils down to, "do I care about this guy's problems?" The answer for me is no, even when I'm playing a mage. I just don't sympathize with him or the "plight of mages".  So when he antagonizes characters I do like, such as Aveline, for not supporting his cause as much as he thinks they should I get annoyed with him.

By the end of DA2 you run into so many mages that turn to blood magic that it only reinforces in my mind that this guy is just plain wrong. Heck, even abomination Anders manages to call up shades to kill me when he loses control. All of the Chantry oppression talk rings a bit hollow after all that. Besides, I like the Chantry so when he blows one up killing the clergy and parishioners inside that's not something I can simply overlook or support like some of his fans seem to do.

I think his voice actor in Awakening did a great job. The actor can do seriousness very well but that wasn't what Anders in Awakening was. Anders was about being goofy, vain, and loving kittens. DA2's VA wasn't bad by any means but for me something was lost with the voice as well as all the other stuff.

I have my problems with him in regards to gameplay as well; namely the fact that he's the only one besides a mage Hawke with access to the Creation tree after Act 1. Not being able to pass up a character I don't like because I need his haste makes me resent him even more.

[Melca36]

Sebastian....

I deal with enough religious zealots in my real life...I didn't need one in a game I play.

[naledgeborn]

Sebastian and Anders. For the same reasons.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

OnionXI wrote...
There are plenty of threads in this section about which characters you love and want to draw pictures of. I'm not sure why the idea of one thread that is about the opposite is so offensive. Not liking a character doesn't mean the person just doesn't understand that character.

For example, Anders. I understand his motivations and why he does what he does. I also understand that every conflict he had with the templars after his Joining was because he went looking for it. Remember Rylock? Still, I helped him out with his templar issues back then and by the end of Awakening I figured I finally earned his loyalty and dedication to the Wardens - the game even told me as much.

DA2 rolls around and it's "blighted Wardens" this and "oppressive Templars" that. He must have been a Warden for six months. In my assessment "destroyed" is a fair description for the Anders I was familiar with. As the game progresses there's even less of Anders and more of Justice. By act 3 he loses all of his redeeming humor. I thought Justice was a pretty "meh" character in Awakening so I wasn't crazy about him becoming the dominant personality of a character I liked. I've seen people call it getting a backbone or being stronger as the game progresses but I see it as a descent into losing himself more and more.

If I look at Anders in just DA2 and try to block out my perspective from Awakening it really just boils down to, "do I care about this guy's problems?" The answer for me is no, even when I'm playing a mage. I just don't sympathize with him or the "plight of mages".  So when he antagonizes characters I do like, such as Aveline, for not supporting his cause as much as he thinks they should I get annoyed with him.

You appear not to have read his official short story, (get the PDF from his character page), because your idea of what happened is explicitly contradicted by canonical events.  One of the biggest narrative flaws of the game is that the information in the short story doesn't make it into the actual game narrative.The most relevant passage is this: 

Jennifer Brandis Helper wrote...
I struggle to stand, to open my eyes and face them like a man, not the chewed-up pile of hurlock spew I feel like. I can see them now. It's Rolan; of course it is. The price I had to pay for the Grey Wardens' generosity in recruiting me out from under the templars' noses. He was one of them, before his Chantry was destroyed by the darkspawn and he felt the calling to join the Wardens. No one ever said a deal had been struck, but as soon as the templars stopped their protests, Rolan turned up in the Wardens, and we've fielded every assignment together since. It's all too clear the templars sent him to keep watch.

What happens after that explains why he has such negative feelings about the Wardens, and why he ran. Now, this short story has a lot of problems. I can't comprehend how this happened on my Warden's watch... she would never let the templars touch Anders. I can only assume it was done behind her back, when she was away during Witch Hunt.

But anyway, the story makes it clear: the templars actively opposed and protested the Wardens until the Wardens let a templar into their ranks to control Anders. And then they stripped him away from the companions he'd come to care about, removed him from the company of the friendships he'd built, and assigned him to a templar.

Without that information, his leaving the wardens and his bitterness towards them are really confusing. And based on how many people tailor their entire perception of the character around a complete misapprehension of his backstory during the period between Awakening and DA2, it's very clear that this information needed to be presented somewhere in game.

So yes, I'd say you don't have the best understanding of the character, but it's simply because you didn't have access to all the facts when you attempted to form your theories.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 septembre 2011 - 11:10 .

[BroBear Berbil]

You're right, I hadn't seen that. Thanks for the link, I'll be sure to read it.

I admit I pretty much never visit the official site since I figured its purpose would be more about marketing and the actual story would be relayed through the game or the books.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I also apologize if I sounded sarcastic there, too. I can imagine how mad I'd be at Anders if I thought he just wandered off, leaving my Warden, Sigrun, and Nate behind, without a word. I benefit from the fact that I camped out in the Anders thread a lot, so I got that story linked to me before I had a chance to come up with my own theory.

Now, some of my interpretation of events comes from the fact that my Warden was insanely protective of Anders... partially because, having lost her clan, she considers all her companions her new clan, and Anders was the one who seemed to most need protecting. So for her, the only way that story could occur is if the Chantry pulled some deeply sinister back-room stuff with the Orlesians as soon as her back was turned... hence my rant earlier in the thread.

It's possible that a Warden who didn't care as much about Anders didn't see anything wrong with letting a Templar become a Warden in order to watch over him, so how strong-armed the Chantry's tactics might have been depends a great deal on how much your Warden trusted the Chantry inherently. Still, either with your Warden's permission or without it, the templars seriously screwed Anders over, and he was isolated from the rest of the Awakening crew, except for Justice.

[Kronas]

Actually what I don't like is the Friendship/Rivalry way of developing characters or at least the fact that once it gets to 100% either way it locks and cannot change and certain dialogues only occur if you are one side or other of the scale. I'd far rather you were allowed both the friendship/rivalry dialogue options throughout, so it can reflect your own character's modifying of their views if they occur .......................................  ((hear hear)) It's like a toss of the coin you only get to choose the side thats facing up and that leaves the characters 2 dimentional , I miss the character interaction from - Origins - it mayby just me but if you dont want a booty call with a character they take a rivalry stance . Anders and Fenris Have a superatory complex when it comes to Merill but the truth is she has'nt done anything wrong yet ( Anders became evil after merging with Justis and go's out of his way to kill the templars and chantry people and Fenris competed to recieve his tattos that he used to kill the fog warriors becouse he was to weak to stand up to his master they are both hipacrits out for them self's Merill at least was trying to help her clan regain their history she reminds me of a child not thinking things through but she did it with a good heart !!!!!

Modifié par Kronas, 12 septembre 2011 - 06:41 .

[ColGali]

Fenris and Anders were terrible. Shallow and simple characters, who were really annoying.

[Dapper Pomegranate]

Fenris - Grr! So irritating; do people actually like that much wangsty brooding? It got real old, real fast, and he stayed in his dirty mansion the rest of the game. Which, I found out later, means I couldn't trigger his Act 2&3 quests, meaning I missed the chance to hand him to Danarius. More's the pity.

Sebastian - I was resonably fine with him for most of the game (his sexy accent overshadowing his many faults) but right at the end I immediately developed a seething hatred for him because I was forced to sit back and watch him go. He's intensely anti-mage and pro-chantry and threatens to come back and kill Anders (and at the time I was playing a mage who friendmanced Anders) and I'm not even allowed to set him on fire? (which is absolutely what that Hawke would have done) Lame.
Anyway, that's my little rant. Fenris and Sebastian. Can't stand 'em

Modifié par FrozenFire42, 16 septembre 2011 - 08:05 .

[esper]

Aveline has finally made completely into the dislike category for me. I am working to have her betray my canon Hawke and blamed her for Leandra's dead. That was the last straw for me. She is so self-rightnouess while on the same side being one of the most corrupt guards I have ever met and it is pointed out in the game only once... I just can't stand her anymore.  

[Saberchic]

esper wrote...

Aveline has finally made completely into the dislike category for me. I am working to have her betray my canon Hawke and blamed her for Leandra's dead. That was the last straw for me. She is so self-rightnouess while on the same side being one of the most corrupt guards I have ever met and it is pointed out in the game only once... I just can't stand her anymore.  

She made it on my bad side when she sabotaged my brother's chances with the city guard. That pissed me off.

[Giggles_Manically]

Carver would make a TERRIBLE city guard.

[Saberchic]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Carver would make a TERRIBLE city guard.

Why do you say that?

[Lestatman]

Saberchic wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Carver would make a TERRIBLE city guard.

Why do you say that?

It doesn't matter if Carver would have been a good or terrible guard the mere fact that the Hawkes were living in Lowtown trying to get by and any help like helping Carver try out as a Guard is the least that Aveline could do especially since the Hawkes didn't abandon her when you met Gamlin in the Gallows.

[esper]

Lestatman wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Carver would make a TERRIBLE city guard.

Why do you say that?

It doesn't matter if Carver would have been a good or terrible guard the mere fact that the Hawkes were living in Lowtown trying to get by and any help like helping Carver try out as a Guard is the least that Aveline could do especially since the Hawkes didn't abandon her when you met Gamlin in the Gallows.

Yeah, that irriated me so much as well.
But what I dislike most about Aveline is that she has an attitude as if she is the law, both a lot of what she is doing is actually questionable, but nobody, but Merrill in one very small banter ever calls her on it. 
Aveline let her personal friends be the expection to the law in Kirkwall which is corruption in the law. She protects her guards more than the people she is supposed to protect. The last thing is mended a little if she marries Donnic, but the fact that no one really touches the first problem and Aveline still acts like she always has the moral and lawfully high ground just irritates me to no end. And the confrontation with Hawke when Leandra died finally did it. I now dislike Aveline as much as Elthina.

[Saberchic]

Lestatman wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Carver would make a TERRIBLE city guard.

Why do you say that?

It doesn't matter if Carver would have been a good or terrible guard the mere fact that the Hawkes were living in Lowtown trying to get by and any help like helping Carver try out as a Guard is the least that Aveline could do especially since the Hawkes didn't abandon her when you met Gamlin in the Gallows.

THANK YOU! Fianlly,someone who agrees with me. She wouldn't have even got into the city without the Hawkes, and she totally disses Carver like that.

I know I hated on Aveline just a bit, and some playthroughs she really irriatates me, but the one who really gets to me is Isabela.

[wright1978]

Anders. It was such a relief on my mage run through not to have to drag his carcass round with me.
Being sarcastic to Merrill is just hilarious imo which makes up for the fact she's not a favourite of mine(Given i adore Isabela Merrill was never really going to be my cup of tea though). Like the rest.

[ThePhoenixKing]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

OnionXI wrote...
There are plenty of threads in this section about which characters you love and want to draw pictures of. I'm not sure why the idea of one thread that is about the opposite is so offensive. Not liking a character doesn't mean the person just doesn't understand that character.

For example, Anders. I understand his motivations and why he does what he does. I also understand that every conflict he had with the templars after his Joining was because he went looking for it. Remember Rylock? Still, I helped him out with his templar issues back then and by the end of Awakening I figured I finally earned his loyalty and dedication to the Wardens - the game even told me as much.

DA2 rolls around and it's "blighted Wardens" this and "oppressive Templars" that. He must have been a Warden for six months. In my assessment "destroyed" is a fair description for the Anders I was familiar with. As the game progresses there's even less of Anders and more of Justice. By act 3 he loses all of his redeeming humor. I thought Justice was a pretty "meh" character in Awakening so I wasn't crazy about him becoming the dominant personality of a character I liked. I've seen people call it getting a backbone or being stronger as the game progresses but I see it as a descent into losing himself more and more.

If I look at Anders in just DA2 and try to block out my perspective from Awakening it really just boils down to, "do I care about this guy's problems?" The answer for me is no, even when I'm playing a mage. I just don't sympathize with him or the "plight of mages".  So when he antagonizes characters I do like, such as Aveline, for not supporting his cause as much as he thinks they should I get annoyed with him.

You appear not to have read his official short story, (get the PDF from his character page), because your idea of what happened is explicitly contradicted by canonical events.  One of the biggest narrative flaws of the game is that the information in the short story doesn't make it into the actual game narrative.The most relevant passage is this: 

Jennifer Brandis Helper wrote...
I struggle to stand, to open my eyes and face them like a man, not the chewed-up pile of hurlock spew I feel like. I can see them now. It's Rolan; of course it is. The price I had to pay for the Grey Wardens' generosity in recruiting me out from under the templars' noses. He was one of them, before his Chantry was destroyed by the darkspawn and he felt the calling to join the Wardens. No one ever said a deal had been struck, but as soon as the templars stopped their protests, Rolan turned up in the Wardens, and we've fielded every assignment together since. It's all too clear the templars sent him to keep watch.

What happens after that explains why he has such negative feelings about the Wardens, and why he ran. Now, this short story has a lot of problems. I can't comprehend how this happened on my Warden's watch... she would never let the templars touch Anders. I can only assume it was done behind her back, when she was away during Witch Hunt.

But anyway, the story makes it clear: the templars actively opposed and protested the Wardens until the Wardens let a templar into their ranks to control Anders. And then they stripped him away from the companions he'd come to care about, removed him from the company of the friendships he'd built, and assigned him to a templar.

Without that information, his leaving the wardens and his bitterness towards them are really confusing. And based on how many people tailor their entire perception of the character around a complete misapprehension of his backstory during the period between Awakening and DA2, it's very clear that this information needed to be presented somewhere in game.

So yes, I'd say you don't have the best understanding of the character, but it's simply because you didn't have access to all the facts when you attempted to form your theories.

Just because that short story is canon (apparently) doesn't make it any less stupid, if not a full-fledged Voodoo Shark. Honestly, I can understand bringing a character back for the name and nostalgia value, but if his or her personality is going to be completely different, then why bother? And don't give me that "it's the influence of Justice" nonsense, as we never get a clear explanation for how merged they are, both in-game and on a metatextual level, and every attempt to either explain or simply hand-wave it away just raises even more questions.

So yeah, not a big fan of Anders in DAII. I don't care what excuses the writers invoke to justify it; he goes from a rather snarky, loyal and overall likeable guy in Awakening to a deserting, obsessive terrorist in DAII, and I find it hard to believe that even a well-constructed explanation would be satisfactory, let alone the half-assed excuses they ended up giving us.

Also not a big fan of Fenris, though I must say I like him better than Anders (admittedly, that's saying you prefer getting punched in the face over being kicked in the groin, in the end, neither are very pleasant). It's easy to see why people like Fenris, and I definitely feel that there are some sympathetic elements to the character; his horrible past, the fact that he's illiterate, his general feelings of alienation in a much wider world...

Then he opens his mouth, rants about mages for a bit, and I remember again why it was so very satisfying to shove Celebrant through his brain during my first run-through. Not even Gideon Emery's fantastic voice can distract from the fact that Fenris is a racist #$*hole.

[Todd23]

I don't like how hypocritical Anders and Fenris are, but as characters, I definitely like them. Now Aveligne... I would be fully willing to go through the entire game without her.

[Heidenreich]

ThePhoenixKing wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

OnionXI wrote...
There are plenty of threads in this section about which characters you love and want to draw pictures of. I'm not sure why the idea of one thread that is about the opposite is so offensive. Not liking a character doesn't mean the person just doesn't understand that character.

For example, Anders. I understand his motivations and why he does what he does. I also understand that every conflict he had with the templars after his Joining was because he went looking for it. Remember Rylock? Still, I helped him out with his templar issues back then and by the end of Awakening I figured I finally earned his loyalty and dedication to the Wardens - the game even told me as much.

DA2 rolls around and it's "blighted Wardens" this and "oppressive Templars" that. He must have been a Warden for six months. In my assessment "destroyed" is a fair description for the Anders I was familiar with. As the game progresses there's even less of Anders and more of Justice. By act 3 he loses all of his redeeming humor. I thought Justice was a pretty "meh" character in Awakening so I wasn't crazy about him becoming the dominant personality of a character I liked. I've seen people call it getting a backbone or being stronger as the game progresses but I see it as a descent into losing himself more and more.

If I look at Anders in just DA2 and try to block out my perspective from Awakening it really just boils down to, "do I care about this guy's problems?" The answer for me is no, even when I'm playing a mage. I just don't sympathize with him or the "plight of mages".  So when he antagonizes characters I do like, such as Aveline, for not supporting his cause as much as he thinks they should I get annoyed with him.

You appear not to have read his official short story, (get the PDF from his character page), because your idea of what happened is explicitly contradicted by canonical events.  One of the biggest narrative flaws of the game is that the information in the short story doesn't make it into the actual game narrative.The most relevant passage is this: 

Jennifer Brandis Helper wrote...
I struggle to stand, to open my eyes and face them like a man, not the chewed-up pile of hurlock spew I feel like. I can see them now. It's Rolan; of course it is. The price I had to pay for the Grey Wardens' generosity in recruiting me out from under the templars' noses. He was one of them, before his Chantry was destroyed by the darkspawn and he felt the calling to join the Wardens. No one ever said a deal had been struck, but as soon as the templars stopped their protests, Rolan turned up in the Wardens, and we've fielded every assignment together since. It's all too clear the templars sent him to keep watch.

What happens after that explains why he has such negative feelings about the Wardens, and why he ran. Now, this short story has a lot of problems. I can't comprehend how this happened on my Warden's watch... she would never let the templars touch Anders. I can only assume it was done behind her back, when she was away during Witch Hunt.

But anyway, the story makes it clear: the templars actively opposed and protested the Wardens until the Wardens let a templar into their ranks to control Anders. And then they stripped him away from the companions he'd come to care about, removed him from the company of the friendships he'd built, and assigned him to a templar.

Without that information, his leaving the wardens and his bitterness towards them are really confusing. And based on how many people tailor their entire perception of the character around a complete misapprehension of his backstory during the period between Awakening and DA2, it's very clear that this information needed to be presented somewhere in game.

So yes, I'd say you don't have the best understanding of the character, but it's simply because you didn't have access to all the facts when you attempted to form your theories.

Just because that short story is canon (apparently) doesn't make it any less stupid, if not a full-fledged Voodoo Shark. Honestly, I can understand bringing a character back for the name and nostalgia value, but if his or her personality is going to be completely different, then why bother? And don't give me that "it's the influence of Justice" nonsense, as we never get a clear explanation for how merged they are, both in-game and on a metatextual level, and every attempt to either explain or simply hand-wave it away just raises even more questions.

So yeah, not a big fan of Anders in DAII. I don't care what excuses the writers invoke to justify it; he goes from a rather snarky, loyal and overall likeable guy in Awakening to a deserting, obsessive terrorist in DAII, and I find it hard to believe that even a well-constructed explanation would be satisfactory, let alone the half-assed excuses they ended up giving us.

Also not a big fan of Fenris, though I must say I like him better than Anders (admittedly, that's saying you prefer getting punched in the face over being kicked in the groin, in the end, neither are very pleasant). It's easy to see why people like Fenris, and I definitely feel that there are some sympathetic elements to the character; his horrible past, the fact that he's illiterate, his general feelings of alienation in a much wider world...

Then he opens his mouth, rants about mages for a bit, and I remember again why it was so very satisfying to shove Celebrant through his brain during my first run-through. Not even Gideon Emery's fantastic voice can distract from the fact that Fenris is a racist #$*hole.

Sweetness, have you never played awakening? Awakening Anders is a snarky, templar-hating, douchebag. Seriously. Go actually listen to his conversations and his banters. Just because they're delivered in the veil of humor doesn't make him any less of an ****. A templar-hating one. Because he is. If you dismiss him durring his mage-freedom rant he does not approve. If he hates you, his responses to the warden are out right nasty.  Awakening Anders is an ****. He's no less templar-hating then he is in DA2. The only difference between the two mediums, is that later-on, in act 3, he's no longer cracking jokes. Because he can't. Because its a serious situation and not funny anymore.

Not to mention the fact that Justice has zero sense of humor.


I don't get why people hate Anders for not being Anders when he's just as much Anders as he ever was. He's just as much the snarky, templar-hating douchebag in DA2, especially in act 1, that he was in Awakening. The only, and I repeat only, difference is that in Awakening he's a selfish snarky, templar-hating douchebag, and in DA2 he's lacking in the selfish department because of Justice.

Bah. I'm not really sure how any one can hate any of the DA2 cast. They're all wonderfully written, even Sebastian (who I'm not particularly fond of as a "personality", but I don't dislike the character).




I.. am not even sure I want to touch the comments about Fenris, because I'm not even remotely sure how you came up with Fenris being rasist when he's not Anti-Efl and not Anti-Human and not Anti-Dwarf. His hatred of magic is down-right reasonable. That doesn't mean your Hawke has to agree with him,and the vast majority if mine never do, but he's not wrong. And unless you're carting Merrill and/or Anders around he actually doesn't **** about mages that often. Because Anders is an abomination, and Merrill is a blood mage.. which are like the two most big bad no-no end of the world mage badness things.


Its to early, I need coffee.

Modifié par Heidenreich, 18 septembre 2011 - 10:31 .

[ladyofpayne]

Merill- naive and stupid girl.
Isabela like Morry "Love is stupid, blah-blah-blah" , "harm in youth", then "I love you", so predictable and boring. I'd like to see female character as Aribeth- strong but feminity, not a wh*re and selfish b*tch - Isabela seduce Hawke and tell him that it was just for fun, she just backstub Hawke with foliat of Kolsine like stubborn wh*re as she is. Also she sleeps with everything that moves, her apperiance just fanservice, and she has some deseases. 
Also I don't like how Bio advertise her in trailer Destiny. Anders is much better for MHawke than Isabela.

I can don't take her, I know it. But there is a problem- she is only one LI from FChars better than Merril. For Female Hawke there is no problem, thanks the Makers, but all my Mhawke become a gays. No one normal men want to choose between stupid girl and lying wh*re. 

I'd like to give her in slavery like Fenris.

Modifié par ladyofpayne, 18 septembre 2011 - 10:36 .

[Knight of Dane]

I see ladyofpayne doesn't know one thing about men then. ^^