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Companions you don't like and why?


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#51
KnightofPhoenix

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Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I didn't dislike any character. But they committed the much graver sin of making me be utterly indifferent to their entire existence. All except two (and maybe 3).


Which 3? I know one of them is Anders right? 


Varric and Aveline.

Anders maybe, but more because of what he did in Act 3 than his actual character (I thought the implementation was flawed). I do not approve of it, but it's the only redeeming thing about Act 3. As in the only interesting thing that happened that doesn't ****** me off.

#52
Giggles_Manically

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Many of them ****** me off through the game at many times.
MANY TIMES.

However I dont hate or dislike any of them.

#53
Ryzaki

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Varric and Aveline. 

Anders maybe, but more because of what he did in Act 3 than his actual character (I thought the implementation was flawed). I do not approve of it, but it's the only redeeming thing about Act 3. As in the only interesting thing that happened that doesn't ****** me off.


Ah. Kind of hard to dislike Varric. :lol: 

Oh that makes sense. That scene...oh boy. It's too bad I have to side with the templars to get the showdown with Anders that I'd like. :(

#54
Nashiktal

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The only one I disliked was Anders, however I loved his character if that makes any sense to anyone.

#55
KnightofPhoenix

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Nashiktal wrote...

The only one I disliked was Anders, however I loved his character if that makes any sense to anyone.


You dislike him as a person and like him as a character. Makes sense.


If I am to shed more light onto my position, I'd say I am indifferent to them as characters, and indifferent to them as people. Shocker. 

Editado por KnightofPhoenix, 13 agosto 2011 - 06:55 .


#56
Xilizhra

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I'm not indifferent to any of them... though I was indifferent to several in Origins. Curious.

#57
Pzykozis

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I didn't have hatred for any character, apathy for Seb though.

Hatred is much worse for me than apathy, with apathy their existence is meh, if I hate a character as a character and not a as a person (as in I don't disagree or dislike them but find them engaging in some way) then it immediately severs my connection to anything to do with them. WoT without Egwene or ASoIaF without Daenerys or Malazan without Karsa (Ugh Karsa) is essentially what happens when I hate a character I just skip their existence entirely or walk away if they're unavoidable as is the case with Malazan, shame about Malazan but oh well.

I have no time for things I hate, Apathy is however passable sometimes.

#58
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I didn't dislike any character. But they committed the much graver sin of making me be utterly indifferent to their entire existence. All except two (and maybe 3).


Which 3? I know one of them is Anders right? 


Varric and Aveline.

Anders maybe, but more because of what he did in Act 3 than his actual character (I thought the implementation was flawed). I do not approve of it, but it's the only redeeming thing about Act 3. As in the only interesting thing that happened that doesn't ****** me off.



Similar thoughts on my part, except I did care about Anders as a character and such. Though I wished they had developed him better.

And agreed on him blowing up the Chantry. It was a dumb thing to do on a practical, long term level, but it didn't ****** me off either. It was more the idiotic, insane behavior of everyone AFTER Anders made Chantry go boom, then sat down and quietly waited for someone to execute him.

#59
Phaffner

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In Origins Its Alistair, I just cant stand his oh poor me whah whah whah way and his spoild snot nosed kid ways. I just want want to slap the hell out of him and tell him to grow up and be a man.
In Awakening its Anders, he was just Alistair in a dress.
In DA2 Its Anders. I destest him and his fanatical ways.
Other then them 2 I either love, like or am pretty much Meh about the rest.

#60
leggywillow

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ipgd wrote...
As for the topic: I didn't hate any of the companions. The only one I actively disliked on a personal level was Sebastian, whom I still believe is a well-written character with an interesting narrative role, and that is the primary rubric by which I grade the worth of a character.

Fenris was kinda a case of an interesting character concept executed in a way that was... timid? He was, in a sense, just so damn reasonable given what he had been through that I had trouble being really engaged by his character in any meaningful way. He was potentially interesting when he was angry or lashing out, but then he would... apologize for it, and it was just like, "well, you know, I really can't blame you for any of this". He could have been so much more unhinged, given his history, that he just ended up like 'slightly troubled but ultimately harmless' which I guess is okay, but not very interesting to me, and something I personally think was an opportunity for a much more engaging character wasted.

He was not connected to the plot in any way, which I found myself missing quite a bit given how much more involved the other characters were. He had strong opinions, but was remarkably passive about them -- he was like that old war vet that sits around being passively racist but whom no one actually gives two ****s about, because he is the way he is because of something awful he had been through and everyone just gets it. I wanted to find fault with Fenris's views, but his character falls into that grey area of "his life sucked so much that I guess he's entitled to be a bit of a dick", especially given he never lashes out against anyone who is innocent or takes any measures to actually act against mages. I would have liked to see him do something like turn Anders and Merrill into the templars, anything to make him more plot relevant, give him more to develop away from and make me feel like there's a point to challenging his views.

His romance specifically disappointed me on two levels: one, that it was structured in a way that seemed like a better fit for Origins than DA2 (Hawke can't talk to Fenris about their hanky-panky for three years, really?), and two, that there was remarkably little conflict for a mage romance. I was a little put off by the fact I could essentially roleplay Danarius (which I actually tried to do when I romanced him!) and he wouldn't think it was, you know, a bit weird -- engage in some self-loathing or something, gosh. I mean, I get why such a huge variable couldn't be implemented in any satisfactory way, but it was a bit jarring. I felt a bit like Fenris would have been better off with not falling under the normal friendship/rivalry system at all, and instead prejudicially "friended" only rogues and warriors and "rivaled" only mages -- his character changes so little between the two paths (or even within one path; it was as if his post-slavery societal "rehabilitation" was for the most part already done before the beginning of the game, and I was speaking to a character whose significant developmental arc was already behind him) that I don't think anything would really have been lost if his friendship/rival paths as written were condensed into one and he were able to have free reign with his ****ry towards a mage Hawke.


Quoting ipgd for truth, as usual.

My two least favorite characters are Sebastian and Fenris.  Sebastian is a good character, so I can appreciate his presence in the game, but I want to smack him in the mouth for no real reason.  He just bothers me.  ::shrug::  And Fenris just bores me.  I am indifferent towards him and think he's a pretty poor character.

His romance is also remarkably boring, since there's no real tension between a mage Hawke and Fenris.  And it really pales in comparison to the other romance, since the rivalry and friendships paths don't really differ.  Besides being a little quicker to apologize when he gets pissy, there's not much difference between his friendship and rival path, romance or not.  Merrill, Isabela, and Anders all have interesting character developments when you rival vs. friend them.  With Fenris, it's just not present.

#61
Quething

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Xilizhra wrote...

They didn't ask for it either. (You're not going to like how I feel about Anders making the choice of war for all mages everywhere, either. ) And actually, I maintain that she only thinks she's doing it for the Dalish. But you're obviously not going to agree with me on that one.

So pioneers of research in any field should wait until their work becomes known and popular to do anything?


Like I said: I'd have no issue with her quest if she were doing it for the research. As far as I can tell, she's doing it out of cognative dissonance, and telling herself she's doing it to help people who've expressly asked her not to help them. That's not healthy or respectful and not something I can in good conscience encourage.

Well, for Hawke, it's either fight the demon (maybe) or have Merrill die or be possessed. And for Merrill, it's risk herself or let the Dalish continue dying out. The stakes are presumably worth it.


Not saying they're not (for Hawke at least). Just saying that claiming Merrill never puts anyone but herself in danger isn't accurate.

I don't know if I'd say that, but... given that Fenris and Anders hate her, Avenline thinks she's stupid, Varric is sort of protective but patronizing and Hawke can be like that too... the only person who seems to actually respect and like Merrill is Isabela and possibly Hawke, and I can see where this perception would come from.


Marethari, also. File her with Varric, probably. But... yes. She's spent a long time in an emotionally hostile environment (not just in terms of bullying and a lack of validation, but also in being a Dalish mage in the Kirkwall Alienage and all that entails), thus she has developed clinical depression. You might also say: Carver was surrounded by darkspawn, thus it's easy to see where he might have caught the Blight. Or: Meredith was stabbed many times by Hawke, thus it's easy to see why she's bleeding. (Why she turned into a statue is somewhat more of a mystery, I admit.)

Point is - the origin of her erroneous thought process is clear. That doesn't make the diagnosis invalid, it actually rather bouys it.

Editado por Quething, 13 agosto 2011 - 07:17 .


#62
Quething

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Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not indifferent to any of them... though I was indifferent to several in Origins. Curious.


I'm somewhere between indifference and mild dislike with Oghren. Other than that, I like all Origins characters. The ones I like most, I like more than I like any DA2 character. (Yes, even Varric.) But I like all the DA2 characters more than I like the ones I like least in Origins.

Not sure what that means.

#63
Lozark

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Fun topic~

Fenris never really did anything for me. Same with Isabela. I think it's just because the characters in DA2 seem to be carefully designed to be the hawts, and those two come from archetypes that I'm less inclined towards. Fenris also just doesn't... do much. Eh, other people have mentioned why they dislike them and I mostly agree.

Sebastian I just don't get. He's such a good little choir boy, but he doesn't tell the Templars on mageHawke or the apostate pals Merrill and Anders? Hawke's not the Champion by the time you get him and I'd have liked to at least see a little conflict about hanging out with apostates.

#64
Ryzaki

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Ugh. Oghren. 

I killed him in DAO and he still came back in Awakening :(

...well so did my US Warden so there must've been some magical revive spells going around. 

Though my fav characters in the series has to be: Warden, Varric, Alistair, Carver, Fenris, Sten, Shale and Dog. Everyone else goes from meh to dislike. 

Editado por Ryzaki, 13 agosto 2011 - 07:19 .


#65
KnightofPhoenix

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I really like Oghren. As a character and person. Even in Awakening, after thinking about it more (my initial reaction was facepalming). EDIT: ninjaed by Ryzaki, ooops :ph34r:

I was indifferent to only one DA:O character (Wynne), and was not indifferent to any Awakening companion. Yes, I prefer Velanna over Merrill, at least I wasn't indifferent to the former.

Editado por KnightofPhoenix, 13 agosto 2011 - 07:17 .


#66
Giggles_Manically

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Heh.

I killed Velanna in almost all my Awakening games.
Circle of life and all that since she is now fertilizing the forest.

#67
Xilizhra

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Like I said: I'd have no issue with her quest if she were doing it for the research. As far as I can tell, she's doing it out of cognative dissonance, and telling herself she's doing it to help people who've expressly asked her not to help them. That's not healthy or respectful and not something I can in good conscience encourage.

That's because Marethari is a manipulative prideful **** who can't accept that Merrill has found something unorthodox and interesting, and probably useful, and she's thus turned the clan against her.

Not saying they're not (for Hawke at least). Just saying that claiming Merrill never puts anyone but herself in danger isn't accurate.

It's Hawke's choice to go with her.

Marethari, also. File her with Varric, probably. But... yes. She's spent a long time in an emotionally hostile environment (not just in terms of bullying and a lack of validation, but also in being a Dalish mage in the Kirkwall Alienage and all that entails), thus she has developed clinical depression. You might also say: Carver was surrounded by darkspawn, thus it's easy to see where he might have caught the Blight. Or: Meredith was stabbed many times by Hawke, thus it's easy to see why she's bleeding. (Why she turned into a statue is somewhat more of a mystery, I admit.)

Point is - the origin of her erroneous thought process is clear. That doesn't make the diagnosis invalid, it actually rather bouys it. People with depression? We often don't know what's good for us. We tend to think stupid things like "if we die, no one will miss us." Generally the thing a friend ought to do is not allow us to make our own decisions when we're in that state.

Well, I can't stop her from possibly getting killed by the demon, and that happens after the whole arulin'holm thing. Not giving her the knife won't make her less obsessed, and this way I can closely watch over her and keep her safe.

#68
Quething

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I still can't justify why my canon Warden didn't kill Velanna the moment they met. I mean, she's in my save on principle because it's quite obvious her recruitment is canon in the wider DAverse and thus if I want my story to sync up... (also, I do think she's... well, not interesting, but has the potential to be). But in that moment? Nope, no idea how that dialog is supposed to make sense if your Warden is human.

#69
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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Oghren's goodbye speech at the gates of Denerim before the Archdemon battle is one of those moments that gets me a little teared eyed still.

#70
Ryzaki

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

Heh.

I killed Velanna in almost all my Awakening games.
Circle of life and all that since she is now fertilizing the forest.


Ugh. Velanna. She's one of those characters my Warden (no matter the race) is putting in the ground and calling it a day. 

#71
Quething

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Xilizhra wrote...

That's because Marethari is a manipulative prideful **** who can't accept that Merrill has found something unorthodox and interesting, and probably useful, and she's thus turned the clan against her.


Your opinion of Marethari aside, DA:O and the story of Zathrian make it clear the Dalish don't like blood magic any more than Andrasteans do. It ain't just the Keeper at work there.

It's Hawke's choice to go with her.


... yes, so?

Well, I can't stop her from possibly getting killed by the demon, and that happens after the whole arulin'holm thing. Not giving her the knife won't make her less obsessed, and this way I can closely watch over her and keep her safe.


Not giving her the knife may not make her less obsessed, but giving it to her certainly won't. Enabling an addict is never helpful (and her convo with Varric in Act III makes it quite clear her relationship to the mirror is that level of obsessive, though I admit that's kind of metagamey given the choice is made in Act II :?).

Editado por Quething, 13 agosto 2011 - 07:26 .


#72
KnightofPhoenix

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Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Oghren's goodbye speech at the gates of Denerim before the Archdemon battle is one of those moments that gets me a little teared eyed still.


Indeed. Whether on max approval (I'll be the warrior you taught me to be), or less (Let's show them our hearts and then show them theirs).

It impacted me much more than all companion goodbye speeches in DA2 combined, which come to think of it is not saying much seeing how I wasn't impacted at all.

Also, Oghren with the Guardian is touching to me.

#73
KnightofPhoenix

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Ryzaki wrote...
Ugh. Velanna. She's one of those characters my Warden (no matter the race) is putting in the ground and calling it a day. 


The (as it turned out non-existent) potential for hate sex with her makes it hard for me to do that.

And now I am thinking of double hate sex with Velanna and Petrice. It's actually a three way hate sex thing!

Editado por KnightofPhoenix, 13 agosto 2011 - 07:28 .


#74
Tirfan

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Oghren & Guardian is one of the greatest moments in DA:O. Also, Oghren is an amazing character.

I'll say it: Oghren is better character than any of the DA2 cast.

#75
Ryzaki

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Indeed. Whether on max approval (I'll be the warrior you taught me to be), or less (Let's show them our hearts and then show them theirs).

It impacted me much more than all companion goodbye speeches in DA2 combined, which come to think of it is not saying much seeing how I wasn't impacted at all.

Also, Oghren with the Guardian is touching to me.

 

Yeah I don't like Oghren but that speech is awesome. 

And him sobering up and naming his kid after the US Warden? Awesome. 

Then they made him a deadbeat dad and relapsed in Awakening. Just...why?!? :crying: 

The only speech I thought was better than Oghren's was Fenris' (but I'm bias). Other than that the DAO speeches blow DA2's out of the water. 

And Hawke's lousy speech with that epic music over it. Just...no. You are not Shepard Hawke. Stop pretending it doesn't work. :pinched:

Editado por Ryzaki, 13 agosto 2011 - 07:32 .