968 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[LobselVith8]

More than a few people have seen Leliana's cameo as a sign that she's now anti-mage, given her comments about "tolerating" mages who want independence from the Chantry and the general comments she made, as well as her attitude about an Exalted March against Kirkwall and its inhabitiants if mages gain autonomy from the Chantry. Given how Leliana seemed to be anti-mage in "Faith," despite her portrayal in Origins (especially in her conversations with Wynne), do you think she going to continue to be portrayed as an anti-mage Chantry member, or will she be be depicted as she was in her first appearance?

[Rifneno]

I'm guessing she was always a ****, and everything in Origins was just the act of a bard to get close to the Warden.  So more of the same.  If there even is more.  Remember her last words (hopefully literally) at the end: she thinks her and Cassandra should sit back and let the Maker fix things.  Because that worked out soooo well for Grand Wizard Elthina! 

[Herr Uhl]

Will she continue to support the chantry? Yes, most likely.

The chantry stance is that they shouldn't be free from the chantry, so I don't see it as particularly anti-mage or odd for her considering Origins. Your mileage may wary though.

[Xilizhra]

Well... I'm not capable of actually hating her, honestly. I wonder myself whether her words were just a way to make the Chantry seem united and not to make Hawke want to try anything (though the Faith quest is sort of weird anyway, as Hawke's only responses seem to be "the city is fine" or "bring down the thunder").

[Rifneno]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Will she continue to support the chantry? Yes, most likely.

The chantry stance is that they shouldn't be free from the chantry, so I don't see it as particularly anti-mage or odd for her considering Origins. Your mileage may wary though.

She took stances blatantly against official Chantry beliefs quite a few times in Origins. The Chantry teaches the Maker has abandoned his children like the drunken deadbeat dad he is (provided he exists), she thinks he's still around and even communicating with people (namely, herself) for instance. She's also very sympathetic with the mages, being quite opposed to the Right of Annulment and telling Wynne magic is a gift from the Maker and anyone who says otherwise is "just jealous." FFS, she even prefers you free Jowan in Redcliffe. A known blood mage who poisoned an Arl and may have something to do with the zombie horde eating people... and she doesn't want the Warden to kill him. Now she comes to Kirkwall where mages are mostly getting rebellious because they're sick of being put in solitary confinement, raped, and tranquilized without good reason... and she says to tell the Grand Cleric to get out of town because the Chantry has to teach the mages a lesson. I can't fathom how anyone doesn't see a massive change in her personality.

[Xilizhra]

Well... isn't Leliana supposed to be a hand of the Divine, not just an agent who happens to work for the Divine? What if she's only speaking the Divine's opinion and not her own because she feels she has to?

[Herr Uhl]

Leliana is known for doing what is nice rather than doing what is right. With that I allude to Jowan. She has become more cutthroat. By that point she has been doing other things for a few years, and the fact that she doesn't seem at all phased that people were trying to kill her should speak of earlier attempts.

[dragonflight288]

For all we know, she may have investigated other things, and only told Hawke and Sebastian what they needed to know. Sort of a 'need-to-know' basis. That there is a fraternity that is violently trying to overthrow the Chantry, the Divine wants Elthina to leave, and the action against Kirkwall is being considered.

She may have been passing on a message from the Divine. If she's the left hand of Dorethea and not just an affirmed sister, what she says may or may not be dictated by her position on what she's allowed to say in public or on a mission.

[Gervaise]

May be she's had another of her vision things in between times. You never know.

[esper]

I don't know.
I am playing DA:O with my little brother recently and he had choosen Leliana for Li and thus had her with him into the mage tower and I noticed that you gain approval from letting the desire demon walk out with the templar. I was like but your faith says demons are evil and as many says Leliana seems overly goody, goody twoshoes in DAO - if you don't harden her.

Since DA2 turned me anit-chantry and Leliana definitly came up as anti-mage towards my Hawke, my characters are properly going to be hostile towards her from now on - whatever she is anti-mage or not, she is going to do a lot of convincing if I am ever to trust her again. 

[naledgeborn]

What I find funny about all of this is that I only romanced her with my Amell Warden. Proof once again that there is a Tevinter Old God of Irony.

[esper]

naledgeborn wrote...

What I find funny about all of this is that I only romanced her with my Amell Warden. Proof once again that there is a Tevinter Old God of Irony.

Ouch! Perhaps a good thing that your warden is missing?

[miraclemight]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Maker turns out to be a malevolent being? I want to see how she's going to go on with that "It's in the Maker's hands now" attitude when that's discovered.

[Xilizhra]

Turns out? He's pretty damned bad already, from what we know.

[esper]

Where exactly do the Chantry gets Maker benevoulent from anyway?
Chantry belif simplified:
Maker creates Spirits, but abandon them
Maker creates mortals, and spirits gets jealous because he now dotes on them
Mortals dissapoint Maker and he abandon them
Maker hear mortal girl sing and fell in love with her eventhough she is married.
Mortal girls husband not happy with the rival and betrays girl, Maker get so angry at this that he abandon mortals once more.

And let not forget Maker punish all of Thedas wiht a terrible curse - Darkspawn, because a few of the mortals decided that they weren't to happy with him and stepped into his house.

The Maker always seemed rather impulsive and prone to neglectence to me. Not to mention deals out punishment way out of proportion with the crime... I don't get why the Chantry want that deity's attention again - who know what he, if he exits, does next time he gets pissed off?

[TEWR]

Frankly my dear, I don't give a spam.

Honestly, all I want is for the games to portray the mages and Templars fairly and properly, not make them total idiots on both sides or have too many of the evil and not enough good.

Especially considering Orsino was made a boss fight because the devs really wanted another boss fight, which they could've done in other ways that didn't require Orsino to do the ritual.

[rak72]

I just wanted to say Rifneno's avatar is the cutest thing I've ever seen. What is that creature.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I cou;ld care less about Leliana's opinions of mages. What I want to know is she going to keep on getting rezzed by developers despite the player's best efforts to kill her. Or if she's going to keep popping up claiming to have helped stop the Blight when she was left in Lothering.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well... isn't Leliana supposed to be a hand of the Divine, not just an agent who happens to work for the Divine? What if she's only speaking the Divine's opinion and not her own because she feels she has to?

She said the Divine sent her to assess the situation. So it's her call.

Herr Uhl wrote...

Leliana is known for doing what is nice rather than doing what is right. With that I allude to Jowan. She has become more cutthroat. By that point she has been doing other things for a few years, and the fact that she doesn't seem at all phased that people were trying to kill her should speak of earlier attempts.

So after all that time with Marjolaine she was happy and carefree about blood mages and demons afterwards, plus all she sees with the Warden, and something totally changes her after that? Not buying it. I stick by the theory she was just playing the Warden. Or rather, us.

esper wrote...

Where exactly do the Chantry gets Maker benevoulent from anyway?
Chantry belif simplified:
Maker creates Spirits, but abandon them
Maker creates mortals, and spirits gets jealous because he now dotes on them
Mortals dissapoint Maker and he abandon them
Maker hear mortal girl sing and fell in love with her eventhough she is married.
Mortal girls husband not happy with the rival and betrays girl, Maker get so angry at this that he abandon mortals once more.

And let not forget Maker punish all of Thedas wiht a terrible curse - Darkspawn, because a few of the mortals decided that they weren't to happy with him and stepped into his house.

The Maker always seemed rather impulsive and prone to neglectence to me. Not to mention deals out punishment way out of proportion with the crime... I don't get why the Chantry want that deity's attention again - who know what he, if he exits, does next time he gets pissed off?

Well, I can't blame him for falling for someone married, just for trying to act on it. The rest though... yeah... Tevinter's been eating puppies for thousands of years and they're still behind the Maker in evil.

rak72 wrote...

I just wanted to say Rifneno's avatar is the cutest thing I've ever seen. What is that creature.

He's a honey badger. I'm pretty sure they're only cute because everything else would die of terror if they looked appropriate for their personality. ... They are cute though...

[Xilizhra]

She said the Divine sent her to assess the situation. So it's her call.

Leliana doesn't really say much about the actual situation in Kirkwall that she's observed, though, only that it's dangerous for Elthina. The rest of her talk is about why the Divine sent her.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

She said the Divine sent her to assess the situation. So it's her call.

Leliana doesn't really say much about the actual situation in Kirkwall that she's observed, though, only that it's dangerous for Elthina. The rest of her talk is about why the Divine sent her.

She does say that she leaked information about herself being there and that they attacked condemns them.  So because a handful of mages attacked a Chantry representative, crusade on Kirkwall.  A few mages that are now dead condemns the rest of them, as if they should trust the Chantry after all its done to them anyway?  That's fine, as long as the DA3 PC gets the chance to kill Leliana because of Sister Petrice.

[miraclemight]

Xilizhra wrote...

Turns out? He's pretty damned bad already, from what we know.

Yeah, but sadly in Thedas, many think of him as the lovely husband of Andraste. Hence why the Chantry managed to stay for about 1000 years.

I was mostly talking about proof which can be rubbed into Lelianna's face.

[Rifneno]

miraclemight wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Turns out? He's pretty damned bad already, from what we know.

Yeah, but sadly in Thedas, many think of him as the lovely husband of Andraste. Hence why the Chantry managed to stay for about 1000 years.

I was mostly talking about proof which can be rubbed into Lelianna's face.

Screw proof.  I'd rather rub razorwire in her face.

[Xilizhra]

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

She said the Divine sent her to assess the situation. So it's her call.

Leliana doesn't really say much about the actual situation in Kirkwall that she's observed, though, only that it's dangerous for Elthina. The rest of her talk is about why the Divine sent her.

She does say that she leaked information about herself being there and that they attacked condemns them.  So because a handful of mages attacked a Chantry representative, crusade on Kirkwall.  A few mages that are now dead condemns the rest of them, as if they should trust the Chantry after all its done to them anyway?  That's fine, as long as the DA3 PC gets the chance to kill Leliana because of Sister Petrice.

I never read it like that; I just thought that it was that particular Resolutionist party that tried to kill her that was condemned. I don't agree with her there either, as trying to kill the Divine's main assassin just seems like good sense in the particular climate, but still...