Giggles_Manically wrote...
Yes how dare Leliana say ANYTHING that is not rabidly supporting mages.
10 seconds after a horde of blood mages and their demons show up attempting to MURDER her.
There is good cause to fear mages by act 3, and its not all because the nasty wasty templars made them do it.
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Yes how dare Leliana say ANYTHING that is not rabidly supporting mages.
10 seconds after a horde of blood mages and their demons show up attempting to MURDER her.
There is good cause to fear mages by act 3, and its not all because the nasty wasty templars made them do it.
Rifneno wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Yes how dare Leliana say ANYTHING that is not rabidly supporting mages.
10 seconds after a horde of blood mages and their demons show up attempting to MURDER her.
There is good cause to fear mages by act 3, and its not all because the nasty wasty templars made them do it.
Remember what Leliana said 10 seconds after Loghain's soldiers tried to murder her? She plead with the Warden to spare their lives. Try again.
And she can also be talked into giving them last rights as the warden cuts them into bits as well.Rifneno wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Yes how dare Leliana say ANYTHING that is not rabidly supporting mages.
10 seconds after a horde of blood mages and their demons show up attempting to MURDER her.
There is good cause to fear mages by act 3, and its not all because the nasty wasty templars made them do it.
Remember what Leliana said 10 seconds after Loghain's soldiers tried to murder her? She plead with the Warden to spare their lives. Try again.
1- I said nothing of the sort. you have distorted thinking, free for you to dwell on the past as a doddering old grandmother .. And if play this role too, you, saying you never had a bias against religion, you made me laugh a lot. You are one of the worst. I remember many of your comments of other topics.Rifneno wrote...
Sylvianus wrote...
The only ones I've seen are those who are passionately pro-mage. Including many of them who see the chantry as " the devil ", without a minimum of pragmatism and rationality, blood mage as innocent victims who have a justification for murder, because of the templars. Who said that Anders was absolutely right, kill them all etc etc.
Those who didn't support the Magi at the end are treated in the same time genocidal murderers by the same people. So no wonder that Leliana was perceived negatively for just have said something against what she perceived as a threat, regardless of its nature.
Getting a little sick of this argument. Everyone who says she's different in DA2 is pro-mage? Shall I point out that nearly everyone who says she isn't is known pro-templar? Shall I point out that you yourself claimed Elthina shouldn't be blamed for letting her templars run amok because she's old? I can't even find the words to express how brainmeltingly absurd that is, and you have the unmitigated gall to rant about our bias?
I'm also growing mighty tired of the "woe is me" victim act people like yourself are putting on by claiming the mage supporters are constantly calling the templar supporters genocidal lunatics? I can't recall having seen that happen once. We call the templars, in the game, fictional characters, genocidal lunatics. If you can't distinguish the difference, that's your problem. Quit the victim act, it's as tiresome as it is baseless. When's the last time anyone has seen a mage supporter complain that they're being called demon-consorting nutcases who kill random women and stitch their corpses together? I sure don't recall having seen it, and it's certainly not because we're the only side that spews hate at fictional characters.
Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 août 2011 - 12:29 .
Giggles_Manically wrote...
And she can also be talked into giving them last rights as the warden cuts them into bits as well.Rifneno wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Yes how dare Leliana say ANYTHING that is not rabidly supporting mages.
10 seconds after a horde of blood mages and their demons show up attempting to MURDER her.
There is good cause to fear mages by act 3, and its not all because the nasty wasty templars made them do it.
Remember what Leliana said 10 seconds after Loghain's soldiers tried to murder her? She plead with the Warden to spare their lives. Try again.
With no approval loss.
Try again yourself.
Guest_Puddi III_*
IanPolaris wrote...
Filament wrote...
... which is probably at least more correct than yours since DG has explicitly said your interpretation is wrong.
Reread DG's posts again. He did NOT say I was wrong. He was complaining that we were "reading too much" into things (which I've answered at length earlier) and said that there were answers but they were under 'double-top secret classification". In short, what you say is incorrect. DG never said I was incorrect....a point I find very interesting in fact.
-Polaris
Modifié par Filament, 15 août 2011 - 12:25 .
Zanallen wrote...
All we really know about Leliana is that she doesn't agree with killing all of the mages if some can still be saved. She is more goody-goody in DA:O than pro-mage. Same with Jowan. She doesn't think he should be killed out of hand and should have a chance to redeem himself.
Anyway, as I have said before in this thread, I took her words as just telling it how it is. She was attacked by mages. When she tells the Divine about it, she will most likely order the march. Thus, they have condeemed themselves. I didn't read any of her own feelings into what she said, just what she thinks is most likely to happen.
IanPolaris wrote...
She didn't say "magic was dangerous" (which is sort of like saying the sky is blue). She said that the Kirkwall must not fall to magic. (And her tone was fairly nasty...for Lels...when she said it). Not one word was said about the incompetance of the local templars. Not one word was said for any loyalist mages (and there probably are more than a few). Not one word was said about specifying which mages. It was the accastion of an anti-magic bigot. I feel that's fair because that IS how a narrow minded person thinks, and Lels came across (intended or not) as intensely narrow minded.
-Polaris
IanPolaris wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Yes how dare Leliana say ANYTHING that is not rabidly supporting mages.
10 seconds after a horde of blood mages and their demons show up attempting to MURDER her.
There is good cause to fear mages by act 3, and its not all because the nasty wasty templars made them do it.
All mages? No you don't. The only reason you might think so is because the Devs made sure that the only mages you got to see were crazy lunatic bloodmages, and even they (the Devs) admit they went overboard here. I consider it a dishonest presentation.
-Polaris
IanPolaris wrote...
She didn't say "magic was dangerous" (which is sort of like saying the sky is blue). She said that the Kirkwall must not fall to magic. (And her tone was fairly nasty...for Lels...when she said it). Not one word was said about the incompetance of the local templars. Not one word was said for any loyalist mages (and there probably are more than a few). Not one word was said about specifying which mages. It was the accastion of an anti-magic bigot. I feel that's fair because that IS how a narrow minded person thinks, and Lels came across (intended or not) as intensely narrow minded.
-Polaris
Rifneno wrote...
Remember what Leliana said 10 seconds
after Loghain's soldiers tried to murder her? She plead with the Warden
to spare their lives. Try again.
Filament wrote...
Speaking of reading too much into it...
When he says your interpretation of her being anti-mage is reading too much into it and inserting your own headcanon rather than anything supported by what she actually said, I think it's pretty clear what he meant. He meant your interpretation is wrong.
I really interpreted it her being pro-Chantry. She's an agent of the Divine and thus loyal towards her employer. And why would she tell Hawke everything she might think or know? She's talking to Hawke in her function as right hand of the Divine and presenting her views.phaonica wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
If "Sister Nightengale" were afraid of Kirkwall falling to the resulolutionists she could and should have said so. No one would have interpreted that as anti-mage. She didn't. She lumped them in with all other mages and the Imperium and said that Kirkwall must not "fall to magic"
Okay, I kind of do agree with this. But I didn't interpret as being anti-mage so much as pro-WhiteChantry, which perhaps are the same thing, after all. It could be interpreted that she isnt' against mage freedom, so much as she thinks that any war against the Chantry could potentially weaken the influence of the Chantry (not their influence over mages, but their influence to spread their message of the Maker).which comes across honestly as bigoted. Sorry but it does.
Whether it was DG's intent or not, for a lot of us her words and actions DO scream that she is anti-mage or at least anti-magic which is a severe (apparent) change from DAO.
-Polaris
I remember some of the things Leliana said in DAO coming across as severely racist, too, so even if I agreed that her statements were bigoted, it's not that far of a stretch from how she was in DAO.
mousestalker wrote...
Leliana hasn't changed from DAO, she was a sociopathic killing machine in DAO and she remains the same in DA2. Honestly, she brags about killing cleanly to Zevran. She loves the hunt and enjoys playing with her prey. At least in DA2 she no longer feels the need to lull her victims into a false sense of security and copulate with them.
Guest_Puddi III_*
IanPolaris wrote...
DG has no problems telling me when I am factually wrong. He did so with regard to the legality of the Right of Annulment after all (not at all a clear cut case).
He has gone outof his way to disagree with me WITHOUT actually saying I was wrong, and has done so in a way that you failed to notice. I find that very interesting.
-Polaris
Herr Uhl wrote...
mousestalker wrote...
Leliana hasn't changed from DAO, she was a sociopathic killing machine in DAO and she remains the same in DA2. Honestly, she brags about killing cleanly to Zevran. She loves the hunt and enjoys playing with her prey. At least in DA2 she no longer feels the need to lull her victims into a false sense of security and copulate with them.
You don't know that.
Rifneno wrote...
Remember what Leliana said 10 seconds after Loghain's soldiers tried to murder her? She plead with the Warden to spare their lives. Try again.
nerdage wrote...
Perhaps...
*drumroll*
... She picked the wrong phrasing!
Anyone play an elf in DAO? If you based your entire view of her on that one conversation how different would it be to her character over the rest of the game? How about if you only based it on her first conversation in Lothering?
In about six years we've seen her in one conversation, from the perspective of a relative stranger under exceptional circumstances. That's not enough to say she's changed.
Well Hawke doesn't become offended or try to argue. She only starts falling over her self to apologize in DAO after the PC gets offended (which they pretty much have to, given the options available).The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
nerdage wrote...
Perhaps...
*drumroll*
... She picked the wrong phrasing!
Anyone play an elf in DAO? If you based your entire view of her on that one conversation how different would it be to her character over the rest of the game? How about if you only based it on her first conversation in Lothering?
In about six years we've seen her in one conversation, from the perspective of a relative stranger under exceptional circumstances. That's not enough to say she's changed.
Doesn't that conversation have her apologizing a lot and not being a person to subscribe to an anti-elf view? It's been a while since I've played an elf, but the difference is that she cleared it up at that time. She fails to clear up her comments to Hawke.
Modifié par nerdage, 15 août 2011 - 12:45 .
They didn't try to kill her. They tried to kill the Warden and his party which she wasn't part of yet. She was just trying to stop a fight and sided with the Warden.Rifneno wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Yes how dare Leliana say ANYTHING that is not rabidly supporting mages.
10 seconds after a horde of blood mages and their demons show up attempting to MURDER her.
There is good cause to fear mages by act 3, and its not all because the nasty wasty templars made them do it.
Remember what Leliana said 10 seconds after Loghain's soldiers tried to murder her? She plead with the Warden to spare their lives. Try again.
Modifié par Urazz, 15 août 2011 - 12:43 .
Filament wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
DG has no problems telling me when I am factually wrong. He did so with regard to the legality of the Right of Annulment after all (not at all a clear cut case).
He has gone outof his way to disagree with me WITHOUT actually saying I was wrong, and has done so in a way that you failed to notice. I find that very interesting.
-Polaris
Conspiracy theorists find everything interesting, that doesn't mean everything is actually interesting.
Urazz wrote...
They didn't try to kill her. They tried to kill the Warden and his party which she wasn't part of yet. She was just trying to stop a fight and sided with the Warden.
Personally, I think Leliana probably investigated things a bit before 'leaking' her arrival and read up on past reports sent to the Divine. I think part of the reason Leliana was 'against' the mages in DA2 was because their actions were going to cause chaos for all of Thedas and get alot of people killed. Not only that but she's probably changed a bit after 7 years from the events of DAO.
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Doesn't that conversation have her apologizing a lot and not being a person to subscribe to an anti-elf view? It's been a while since I've played an elf, but the difference is that she cleared it up at that time. She fails to clear up her comments to Hawke.
Retour en haut