KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Zjarcal wrote...
I don't get what's so bad about that codex entry. But eh, I don't get a lot of things.
Because it's stripping the franchise of humanity if "malevolent forces" can influence it in such a fashion, imo.
That's not what I am interested in. At all. Regardless of whether the writers are using it as a poor excuse for bad writing, or genuinely think this is interesting.
Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
THIS! I will never understand how people can apply modern ethics to a game that's effectively set in the damn Dark Ages.Dave of Canada wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
No he doesn't unless you want to toss all modern understanding of ethics, law, and justice in the wastebin.
-Polaris
Considering those don't really exist on Thedas, sure!
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I enjoyed the thin Veil more when it had to do with the Tevinters seemingly doing it of their own volition for some other reason.
Now I just find it laughable.
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Faceless forces of unimaginable "eeeeevil" pretty much kill the complexity and art of the setting, at least as far as I'm concerned.
I'm inclined to agree. Not dark ages but very medivalish and barbaric. The ethics are similar in some ways...but this is a world where a noble can drag off an elven woman, rape her, kill her and no one does a damn thing about it (and those that would usually don't have enough power too unless they're the protagonist).Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
THIS! I will never understand how people can aply modern ethics to a game that's effectively set in the damn Dark Ages.Dave of Canada wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
No he doesn't unless you want to toss all modern understanding of ethics, law, and justice in the wastebin.
-Polaris
Considering those don't really exist on Thedas, sure!
Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 août 2011 - 03:25 .
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Zjarcal wrote...
I don't get what's so bad about that codex entry. But eh, I don't get a lot of things.
Because it's stripping the franchise of humanity if "malevolent forces" can influence it in such a fashion, imo.
That's not what I am interested in. At all. Regardless of whether the writers are using it as a poor excuse for bad writing, or genuinely think this is interesting.
Modifié par Zjarcal, 15 août 2011 - 03:25 .
We are the players. We will react in ways that suit us, regardless of whatever backwards people the setting contains think.I'm inclined to agree. The ethics are similar in some ways...but this is a world where a noble can drag off an elven woman, rape her, kill her and no one does a damn thing about it (and those that would usually don't have enough power too unless they're the protagonist).
Herr Uhl wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Zjarcal wrote...
I don't get what's so bad about that codex entry. But eh, I don't get a lot of things.
Because it's stripping the franchise of humanity if "malevolent forces" can influence it in such a fashion, imo.
That's not what I am interested in. At all. Regardless of whether the writers are using it as a poor excuse for bad writing, or genuinely think this is interesting.
Whether or not the "malevolent force" is created by humanity isn't clear though.
Guest_Puddi III_*
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Zjarcal wrote...
I don't get what's so bad about that codex entry. But eh, I don't get a lot of things.
It's that Bioware felt the need to resort to the supernatural forces to explain a part of the plot. again.
and by supernatural, I mean things beyond the mere capability of men. No zealotry, no fanaticism, no traits of men.
Erani wrote...
If I'm a mage and constantly hearing about/seeing other mages that have been raped, or have gone through it, have been beaten or my child taken from me...all that resentment and hate will accumulate and ti might get so bad that one day I'll snap and give the demon the OK.
But who has to find a way to clean up after the malevolent forces? I think the Enigma of Kirkwall entry is interesting, the codex of Corypheus adds to it. I still want to know why there were lakes of blood under the city and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be playing a fade demon in DA3 who can tell me why.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Zjarcal wrote...
I don't get what's so bad about that codex entry. But eh, I don't get a lot of things.
Because it's stripping the franchise of humanity if "malevolent forces" can influence it in such a fashion, imo.
That's not what I am interested in. At all. Regardless of whether the writers are using it as a poor excuse for bad writing, or genuinely think this is interesting.
Zjarcal wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Zjarcal wrote...
I don't get what's so bad about that codex entry. But eh, I don't get a lot of things.
Because it's stripping the franchise of humanity if "malevolent forces" can influence it in such a fashion, imo.
That's not what I am interested in. At all. Regardless of whether the writers are using it as a poor excuse for bad writing, or genuinely think this is interesting.
Eh, now that I think about it should've been obvious. You have expressed that the stripping of Meredith's humanity was one of your biggest issues.
That being said, a fantasy game is going to have stuff like that. I mean, that was the foundation of the series in many ways.
Herr Uhl wrote...
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Faceless forces of unimaginable "eeeeevil" pretty much kill the complexity and art of the setting, at least as far as I'm concerned.
The blight?
Zjarcal wrote...
Eh, now that I think about it should've been obvious. You have expressed that the stripping of Meredith's humanity was one of your biggest issues so it makes sense this would bother you I guess.
That being said, a fantasy game is going to have stuff like that. I mean, that was the foundation of the series in many ways.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 août 2011 - 03:30 .
Xilizhra wrote...
You know what I find rather amusing? You on the anti-mage side can't possibly win in-universe.
Sure, you can murder the Circle, kill Anders, take over Kirkwall... but you can't stop him. You can't stop the war from beginning, you can't stop the mages for fighting on for three years, you can't stop the Chantry from splintering and the templars from rebelling. You've already lost. Your ideals are already dead. Your precious controlled world is coming apart at the seams due to the actions of people like you. You've sowed the wind. Now, reap the whirlwind.
In nomine Justiae.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Herr Uhl wrote...
Whether or not the "malevolent force" is created by humanity isn't clear though.
But it apparently took a life of its own that its origin is pretty much meaningless.
Violence, blood magic and instability apparently need to be caused by some inhuman malevolent force, because economic, social and political factors are not good enough. That's fine, just something I am not interested in.
Modifié par Herr Uhl, 15 août 2011 - 03:33 .
Dave of Canada wrote...
Erani wrote...
If I'm a mage and constantly hearing about/seeing other mages that have been raped, or have gone through it, have been beaten or my child taken from me...all that resentment and hate will accumulate and ti might get so bad that one day I'll snap and give the demon the OK.
And you've gone abomination in an isolated area with trained individuals who are constantly vigilant for the abominations, any damage the abomination can create will be lessened and will kill mages and templar. Therefore, outside civilization remains unaffected and people can live their lives.
Introduce mage into "normal" society and we're facing much more severe problems, we'd encounter fantasy racism. Mage homes would be burned down, they'd be unable to do much. Considering how elves are horribly treated, you'd have to assume the incredibly dangerous timebombs are much more dangerous.
In the Circles, they don't have possessions of their own and they can't have families to care for. Demons have rarely nothing of theirs to exploit for an offer except for freedom, which the mages either yearn for or don't care because they love their life in the Circle (or they have freedom after living their life in the Circle and have proven themselves adept).
A woman outside the Circle who's child is sick, she's freaking out and her son will die if she does absolutely nothing. A demon appears and offers to cure her son in exchange for possession of her body, how many mothers would refuse this offer? The demon is exploiting something of the mage's life to achieve it's goal.
Introduce people who can influence people mentally with blood magic, summon demons, destroy entire villages, kill hundreds of people, can raise the dead and you'd see that mages aren't that nice to have wandering around. The average citizen won't sit there and take it.
Hell, even the countries with mage freedom don't have absolute control. They view abominations as the occassional disaster, they suffer the damage and live on. Not everybody in Thedas will view this as acceptable and I don't doubt the living victims who've had family / friends die to an abomination would approve of it either.
IanPolaris wrote...
The Culture of Thedas is nothing like the Dark Ages.
-Polaris
How lucky that we have the privilege of being better than that.Dave of Canada wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
The Culture of Thedas is nothing like the Dark Ages.
-Polaris
People openly protesting get slain or thrown in prison to be tortured, guards don't mind killing citiens, the peasantry often mean nothing to lords and viewed as necessary sacrifice, slaves are present ("servants" considering slavery is illegal, though they don't enforce that rule), religion dominates everybody's life and politics, everybody is diehard religious that other religious groups are often prosecuted, people are spat on like dogs and left to starve in streets.
Such a wonderful time.
Xilizhra wrote...
We are the players. We will react in ways that suit us, regardless of whatever backwards people the setting contains think.I'm inclined to agree. The ethics are similar in some ways...but this is a world where a noble can drag off an elven woman, rape her, kill her and no one does a damn thing about it (and those that would usually don't have enough power too unless they're the protagonist).
Modifié par TJPags, 15 août 2011 - 03:32 .
Monica21 wrote...
But who has to find a way to clean up after the malevolent forces?KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Zjarcal wrote...
I don't get what's so bad about that codex entry. But eh, I don't get a lot of things.
Because it's stripping the franchise of humanity if "malevolent forces" can influence it in such a fashion, imo.
That's not what I am interested in. At all. Regardless of whether the writers are using it as a poor excuse for bad writing, or genuinely think this is interesting.
Erani wrote...
OK, why keep replying to my posts if you are going to twist what I write? I am talking about improving mages' lives IN THE CIRCLES!
Xilizhra wrote...
How lucky that we have the privilege of being better than that.
Your view is exceedingly limited. Any and all possible choices taken are taken through the perception of the character.TJPags wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
We are the players. We will react in ways that suit us, regardless of whatever backwards people the setting contains think.I'm inclined to agree. The ethics are similar in some ways...but this is a world where a noble can drag off an elven woman, rape her, kill her and no one does a damn thing about it (and those that would usually don't have enough power too unless they're the protagonist).
Yes, we will.
And some of us will accept the ethics of the time we are given in the world we are given, and will make our choices through that prism.
So, yea - mages bad, templars necessary, exalted march in the making.
And oh how I hope to all the gods of Thedas that, in the event DA3 has anything to do with the mage/templar conflict, there's an option to crush the mages, and chain any survivors in the depths of the darkest pit that can be found.
So being a decent person is metagaming? I suppose all those olive branch icons should have been replaced with "FILTHY METAGAMER" signs.When you're metagaming and using modern day ideals, sure!
Modifié par Xilizhra, 15 août 2011 - 03:34 .
Retour en haut