968 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

LobselVith8 wrote...
More than a few people have seen Leliana's cameo as a sign that she's now anti-mage, given her comments about "tolerating" mages who want independence from the Chantry and the general comments she made, as well as her attitude about an Exalted March against Kirkwall and its inhabitiants if mages gain autonomy from the Chantry. Given how Leliana seemed to be anti-mage in "Faith," despite her portrayal in Origins (especially in her conversations with Wynne), do you think she going to continue to be portrayed as an anti-mage Chantry member, or will she be be depicted as she was in her first appearance?

We haven't "portrayed" her as anti-mage. Some people (particularly those who are prone to exaggeration on the topic) do seem to interpret her as such, however, based on relatively little information.

[Xilizhra]

David Gaider wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
More than a few people have seen Leliana's cameo as a sign that she's now anti-mage, given her comments about "tolerating" mages who want independence from the Chantry and the general comments she made, as well as her attitude about an Exalted March against Kirkwall and its inhabitiants if mages gain autonomy from the Chantry. Given how Leliana seemed to be anti-mage in "Faith," despite her portrayal in Origins (especially in her conversations with Wynne), do you think she going to continue to be portrayed as an anti-mage Chantry member, or will she be be depicted as she was in her first appearance?

We haven't "portrayed" her as anti-mage. Some people (particularly those who are prone to exaggeration on the topic) do seem to interpret her as such, however, based on relatively little information.

I wouldn't say that she's personally anti-mage, but that her actions and employer are.

[caradoc2000]

Hawkes eat nightingales, problem solved.

[Xilizhra]

Filament wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I cou;ld care less about Leliana's opinions of mages. What I want to know is she going to keep on getting rezzed by developers despite the player's best efforts to kill her.

Why would you do such a thing?

Well, she can try to kill you first...

[KnightofPhoenix]

I am hoping that Sister Nightingale will do something more impressive (and less foolish) than a hero hunt.

[esper]

Rifneno wrote...

miraclemight wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Turns out? He's pretty damned bad already, from what we know.

Yeah, but sadly in Thedas, many think of him as the lovely husband of Andraste. Hence why the Chantry managed to stay for about 1000 years.

I was mostly talking about proof which can be rubbed into Lelianna's face.

Screw proof.  I'd rather rub razorwire in her face.

My warden has a very nice sword called Spellweaver that has been missing Leliana something awfull... 

What I don't understand is how she can be smart enough to completely fool the warden, but not smart enough to notice the obvious signs in Kirkwall. If she wanted to blame mages so badly she could at least have noticed my Hawke who were publicly supporting Orsino. Or Trask's mage-templar group  who was holding nightly meetings in the moon-light apparently and who a good spy really should notice, but no... she has to say that a small fraternity within the circle is to blame. She is not even doing a good job being anti-mage, missing the obvious anit-Meridith movements. 

[Wulfram]

It's difficult to assess what Leliana was really up to when all we've got is a brief conversation with Hawke, who she has no reason to trust and who doesn't ask the important questions anyway.

But it doesn't seem that whatever she and Cassandra are planning is particularly anti-mage

If I wanted to be truly crackpot, I'd note that she's the only character who seems to have some foreknowledge of the danger to the Kirkwall chantry.  Put this together with Leliana's strongly pro-mage attitude in origins, and the fact that the Chantry seems to have broken from the Templars after the end of the game, and you might therefore conclude that Anders was in fact acting on the Divine's orders as part of a plan to destroy the Templars.

[Xilizhra]

Filament wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Filament wrote...
Why would you do such a thing?

Well, she can try to kill you first...

Then you should lie down and take it, for being such a mean person to make her want to kill you.

I love her, but I can see why other people wouldn't.

[jlb524]

The only thing I can think of to defend her is perhaps she's working as a double agent and actually spying on Orlais?

No?

Okay then...yeah...looks bad from what we have to go on now

naledgeborn wrote...

What I find funny about all of this is that I only romanced her with my Amell Warden. Proof once again that there is a Tevinter Old God of Irony.

I romanced her with a very anti-Chantry/anti-Circle blood mage Amell...I doubt that relationship lasted. 

Wulfram wrote...

If I wanted to be truly crackpot, I'd note that she's the only character who seems to have some foreknowledge
of the danger to the Kirkwall chantry.  Put this together with Leliana's strongly pro-mage attitude in origins, and the fact that the Chantry seems to have broken from the Templars after the end of the game, and you might therefore conclude that Anders was in fact acting on the Divine's orders as part of a plan to destroy the Templars.

 



I wish that were true

Modifié par jlb524, 13 août 2011 - 06:03 .

[Aradace]

David Gaider wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
More than a few people have seen Leliana's cameo as a sign that she's now anti-mage, given her comments about "tolerating" mages who want independence from the Chantry and the general comments she made, as well as her attitude about an Exalted March against Kirkwall and its inhabitiants if mages gain autonomy from the Chantry. Given how Leliana seemed to be anti-mage in "Faith," despite her portrayal in Origins (especially in her conversations with Wynne), do you think she going to continue to be portrayed as an anti-mage Chantry member, or will she be be depicted as she was in her first appearance?

We haven't "portrayed" her as anti-mage. Some people (particularly those who are prone to exaggeration on the topic) do seem to interpret her as such, however, based on relatively little information.

Ant-Mage, pro-Mage, it doesnt matter.  The only "portraying" of Leliana I want to do is "portraying" her head on my wall.  And this time, her staying dead 

[Rifneno]

David Gaider wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
More than a few people have seen Leliana's cameo as a sign that she's now anti-mage, given her comments about "tolerating" mages who want independence from the Chantry and the general comments she made, as well as her attitude about an Exalted March against Kirkwall and its inhabitiants if mages gain autonomy from the Chantry. Given how Leliana seemed to be anti-mage in "Faith," despite her portrayal in Origins (especially in her conversations with Wynne), do you think she going to continue to be portrayed as an anti-mage Chantry member, or will she be be depicted as she was in her first appearance?

We haven't "portrayed" her as anti-mage. Some people (particularly those who are prone to exaggeration on the topic) do seem to interpret her as such, however, based on relatively little information.

Then you failed.  She went from sympathetic to a blood mage that tried to murder an Arl to saying a handful of rebels in the Circle from Hell condemns them.  And given Elthina said she's there to investigate for an exalted march...  Well, I fail to see how anyone can say she's the same old Leliana from Origins.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wulfram wrote...
If I wanted to be truly crackpot, I'd note that she's the only character who seems to have some foreknowledge of the danger to the Kirkwall chantry.  Put this together with Leliana's strongly pro-mage attitude in origins, and the fact that the Chantry seems to have broken from the Templars after the end of the game, and you might therefore conclude that Anders was in fact acting on the Divine's orders as part of a plan to destroy the Templars.

I think it's more likely that Celene would be behind it.

[Cody]

Rifneno wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
More than a few people have seen Leliana's cameo as a sign that she's now anti-mage, given her comments about "tolerating" mages who want independence from the Chantry and the general comments she made, as well as her attitude about an Exalted March against Kirkwall and its inhabitiants if mages gain autonomy from the Chantry. Given how Leliana seemed to be anti-mage in "Faith," despite her portrayal in Origins (especially in her conversations with Wynne), do you think she going to continue to be portrayed as an anti-mage Chantry member, or will she be be depicted as she was in her first appearance?

We haven't "portrayed" her as anti-mage. Some people (particularly those who are prone to exaggeration on the topic) do seem to interpret her as such, however, based on relatively little information.

Then you failed.  She went from sympathetic to a blood mage that tried to murder an Arl to saying a handful of rebels in the Circle from Hell condemns them.  And given Elthina said she's there to investigate for an exalted march...  Well, I fail to see how anyone can say she's the same old Leliana from Origins.

I was about to say the same thing......GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

[esper]

David Gaider wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
More than a few people have seen Leliana's cameo as a sign that she's now anti-mage, given her comments about "tolerating" mages who want independence from the Chantry and the general comments she made, as well as her attitude about an Exalted March against Kirkwall and its inhabitiants if mages gain autonomy from the Chantry. Given how Leliana seemed to be anti-mage in "Faith," despite her portrayal in Origins (especially in her conversations with Wynne), do you think she going to continue to be portrayed as an anti-mage Chantry member, or will she be be depicted as she was in her first appearance?

We haven't "portrayed" her as anti-mage. Some people (particularly those who are prone to exaggeration on the topic) do seem to interpret her as such, however, based on relatively little information.

If she hints at a blood mage group being the reason why Kirkwall is out of control and comes with vauge threats about exalthed marches against Kirkwall for that reason how are we suppossed to not she her as anti-mage?
And no matter what she is pro-chantry and now claims to be working for the Divine... Unless the Chantry suddenly chance its stance on mages she is not exaclty on the same side as a Hawke who is pro mage freedom. 

Modifié par esper, 13 août 2011 - 06:17 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Filament wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I cou;ld care less about Leliana's opinions of mages. What I want to know is she going to keep on getting rezzed by developers despite the player's best efforts to kill her.

Why would you do such a thing?

Why wouldn't I?

After Wynne, Leliana was my second LEAST favorite character in Origins. Didn't hate her per se, just found her meh, and in every playthrough, she pretty much spent either the whole game in camp, was killed at the Sacred Ashes,, told to get lost, or left in Lothering.

It seems she's another "returning favorite" of the developers of which I do not share their fascination with, nor do I really care about her as a character much.  I can think of alot of other DAO NPCs I'd rather see return, especially since their return wouldn't require a retcon of anyone's game.

[Xilizhra]

I can think of alot of other DAO NPCs I'd rather see return, especially since their return wouldn't require a retcon of anyone's game.

Like whom?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

I can think of alot of other DAO NPCs I'd rather see return, especially since their return wouldn't require a retcon of anyone's game.

Like whom?

Kardol.

He needs to be back.

And Kylon.

[Herr Uhl]

Xilizhra wrote...

I can think of alot of other DAO NPCs I'd rather see return, especially since their return wouldn't require a retcon of anyone's game.

Like whom?

Old Tegrin.

[Xilizhra]

Kardol.

He needs to be back.

And Kylon.

Who and who?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 août 2011 - 06:21 .

[RagingCyclone]

Rifneno wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
More than a few people have seen Leliana's cameo as a sign that she's now anti-mage, given her comments about "tolerating" mages who want independence from the Chantry and the general comments she made, as well as her attitude about an Exalted March against Kirkwall and its inhabitiants if mages gain autonomy from the Chantry. Given how Leliana seemed to be anti-mage in "Faith," despite her portrayal in Origins (especially in her conversations with Wynne), do you think she going to continue to be portrayed as an anti-mage Chantry member, or will she be be depicted as she was in her first appearance?

We haven't "portrayed" her as anti-mage. Some people (particularly those who are prone to exaggeration on the topic) do seem to interpret her as such, however, based on relatively little information.

Then you failed.  She went from sympathetic to a blood mage that tried to murder an Arl to saying a handful of rebels in the Circle from Hell condemns them.  And given Elthina said she's there to investigate for an exalted march...  Well, I fail to see how anyone can say she's the same old Leliana from Origins.

THIS!!!
Sister Nightengale Leliana is not the same as Origins
Leliana no matter how much you try to retcon. It's this big flaw in the
writing for her that my canon warden will never proceed past Origins. I
have made other wardens to try to fit this debacle, but it's the single
most point that almost made me drop the franchise entirely. How hard is
it to maintain continuity? ME handled it well with replacing a killed
Wrex with another Krogon in ME2, could not the same thing have been done
in DA2 without having to rewrite her character?

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 13 août 2011 - 06:31 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kardol.

He needs to be back.

And Kylon.

Who and who?

The Legion of the Dead Commander. And Sergeant Kylon of the Denerim guard (aka the smartest person in DA).

And it was tongue in cheek btw.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 août 2011 - 06:28 .

[Aradace]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Filament wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I cou;ld care less about Leliana's opinions of mages. What I want to know is she going to keep on getting rezzed by developers despite the player's best efforts to kill her.

Why would you do such a thing?

Why wouldn't I?

After Wynne, Leliana was my second LEAST favorite character in Origins. Didn't hate her per se, just found her meh, and in every playthrough, she pretty much spent either the whole game in camp, was killed at the Sacred Ashes,, told to get lost, or left in Lothering.

It seems she's another "returning favorite" of the developers of which I do not share their fascination with, nor do I really care about her as a character much.  I can think of alot of other DAO NPCs I'd rather see return, especially since their return wouldn't require a retcon of anyone's game.

I've always hated Leliana and always will.  But the fact is, just when I thought I couldnt possilbly like her any less, the Devs go and rezz her ass.  (Yes guys, you rezzed her despite what cheap "excuse" you come up with in the future to justify it) That alone left a bad taste in my mouth.  How hard is it to come up with an alternate character that can fill Leliana's position if the PC killed her in the first game?  Shouldnt be THAT hard given a little extra effort and time to be creative about it.  At this point, it's more the inevitatble lame-o "Excuse" that Im sure we'll get in the future that explains her "miraculous" resurrection that bothers me more than anything else.  

And Im going to leave it at that for right now because anytime Leliana's name comes up it just burns me up because of this very issue.  I respect the hell out of the Devs and their ability to come up with a decent story (without the use of ret-cons and cheap excuses).  And it's when they resort to those cheap and cliche tactics that I get up in arms over it because I expect BETTER out of BWs story telling.  If I didnt respect the devs and their ability, I wouldnt get so overwhelmingly pissed over something like this.

Modifié par Aradace, 13 août 2011 - 06:29 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kardol.

He needs to be back.

And Kylon.

Who and who?

Kardol: the awesome captain of the Legion of the dead you meet in the deep trenches in Origins,.

Kylon: Denerim guard captain who gives you a few jobs and says those classic words to the Warden: "And people still attack you? Are they stupid?".

But yes, those are two examples of non-companion NPCs whose screentime in origins was barely a minute, yet they made more impact than any DA2 NPC. As well as NPCs I found more interesting than Leliana.

And those are only two. I can think of many more.