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[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, you've defended Chantry genocide. And there's still the rape thing.

When the f*ck did I defend rape? 

You just reminded me of the joke about Jews and the clown. However... the part about Vaughn. Wouldn't it be metagaming in your view to not, say, kill Kelder? To say something sympathetic to the elven viddathari?

[TEWR]

Xilizhra wrote...

Remind me real quick, what was Zevran before the Crows BOUGHT (that's a hint!) him?

To be fair, that was in Antiva, another place we haven't visited.

It's funny how no one mentions how Orlais sold Fereldan elves like cattle during their occupation of Ferelden.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Monica21 wrote...
I know how you feel about the franchise, but you can't have a world with magic and not have magical problems. Maybe you think the balance is swinging too far to the supernatural as a explanation for everything that's weird, but I still want to know why the magisters needed lakes of blood under the city.

The world of Thedas clearly has it's own problems because of magic users, the Blight being one of them. The Blight was not a human problem. 

Magic users happen to be human. The Blight didn't influence people at all.

I thought DA was going to be more than this. That the blight was there to introduce the lore and add some mystery, but that the core of the franchise was the mage / templar divide, the situaton in Orzammar, the plight of the Dalish, the political situation of the continent, the Qunari.  That's what I cared about in Origins, I never gave a damn about the blight.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 août 2011 - 03:42 .

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

But we have accepted that the old gods did just that for a long time. Why is this so much different?

The Old Gods didn't influence the magisters into doing anything. They did it of their own volition.

When I say "influence", I mean someone is actively controlling the person.

Does he directly control them to do it? (I haven't played Legacy)

Edit: As you seem to have such a clear definition on what influence means in this circumstance.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 15 août 2011 - 03:45 .

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



 ummm... no?


Every time I've posted who's going to be involved (which went beyond just mages vs. Templars), I was told "Oh no they have no reason to participate!"

 

And in that case I wasn't talking about you. You certainly aren't the only promage person in existance. 

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...



Not again... the dwarves originally built the Chantry in Kirkwall not for the Chantry organization, but for the Tevinters. Kirkwall predates the Chantry. I'm saying that those symbols and rituals were all for the specific event that created Corypheus as he is now.

Wait... where was that mentioned? When was it said Dwarves built Kirkwall?

And it wouldn't necessarily be that Corypheus is influencing people to do his bidding... if he's a powerful dreamer, he can shape the Fade, so his dreaming could simply be disrupting the Veil. Possibly, again, because it's only a possibility.

Ehhh.... that would've been something I think we should've found out in Feynriel's Act 2 quest through Torpor or the other demons, since they know about Somniari.

[TEWR]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



 ummm... no?


Every time I've posted who's going to be involved (which went beyond just mages vs. Templars), I was told "Oh no they have no reason to participate!"

 

And in that case I wasn't talking about you. You certainly aren't the only promage person in existance. 

Of course not. Your comment just seemed to lump everyone on each side together, though. That's why I responded.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 août 2011 - 03:46 .

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...
You just reminded me of the joke about Jews and the clown. However... the part about Vaughn. Wouldn't it be metagaming in your view to not, say, kill Kelder? To say something sympathetic to the elven viddathari?

What? 

Why would it be metagaming? It would only be metagaming to kill him because you know there's no retalation despite the fact that if there was your character wouldn't do it. 

Elven viddatheari? Er...what? 

[CrimsonZephyr]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

No he doesn't unless you want to toss all modern understanding of ethics, law, and justice in the wastebin.  

-Polaris

Considering those don't really exist on Thedas, sure!

THIS! I will never understand how people can apply modern ethics to a game that's effectively set in the damn Dark Ages.

A Dark Age where women are held equal to men, homosexuality is tolerated, and contraceptives are widely used and encouraged in some circles. Not to mention printing presses apparently exist, given Varric's successful career as a writer. This also implies that enough people are educated enough to read, which further implies a level of education not seen in Europe until the Enlightenment. Don't sell Thedas so short. Ethics in general are not modern, they are very ancient, and the idea that punishment should be applied to those guilty of the accusation is a very old one. Of course, what constitutes indications of "guilt" and "innocence" has changed over the ages, but the basic framework of determining that has always been around. As for law, there are obviously laws in place, as the laws governing magic and the code of conduct and protocol regarding its administration are pretty clear and if a mage rebel like Anders is so well-versed in it, they are likely well-codified. Therefore, blatant deviation from it can be considered illegal.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Filament wrote...
And it wouldn't necessarily be that Corypheus is influencing people to do his bidding... if he's a powerful dreamer, he can shape the Fade, so his dreaming could simply be disrupting the Veil. Possibly, again, because it's only a possibility.

I'd find it preferrable and less uninteresting if he was deliberately influencing people, because at least I can say there is some sentient being out there with some motivation, but judging from what I've seen, he's just your typical big bad evil anyhow, so no interesting motivation to me.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 août 2011 - 03:47 .

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
You just reminded me of the joke about Jews and the clown. However... the part about Vaughn. Wouldn't it be metagaming in your view to not, say, kill Kelder? To say something sympathetic to the elven viddathari?

What? 

Why would it be metagaming? It would only be metagaming to kill him because you know there's no retalation despite the fact that if there was your character wouldn't do it. 

Elven viddatheari? Er...what? 

The ones who killed that one guardsman who raped their sister, and who then converted to the Qun.

[Shadow Fox]

Ryzaki wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
And this is exactly why I laugh off the "modern ethics" excuse.  No one ever pretends Vaughn the rapist isn't an evil bastard.  Nobody pretends slavery is acceptable even though it's rampant in Thedas.  Nobody pretends the Tevinter Imperium wasn't made out of pure concentrated evil even though they're no more to blame for their culture than the templars are for theirs (except Baconer, but I'm pretty sure he's sarcastic).  The only time we hear this "you can't use modern ethics!" argument is in the defense of the Chantry, and thus is strikes me as an excuse all other defenses of their actions fail.

...Slavery is rampant in the Tevinter Imperium. The places we've been to (Kirkwall, Fereldan) have no legal slavery so what rampant are you talking about? Its practiced in Tevinter and "servants" in Orlais. Two places we have not been to. So...what are you on about rampant throught Thedas and no one pretending it's acceptable? You been all throught Thedas have you? 

Vaughn? The only people you see react to Vaughn's rape of the elven women are ELVES (shocking that they'd think he's an evil bastard for it really!) and Duncan who happens to be a cool dude. (And Cailan who is nice mc stupid). As well as people in your party (and the ones you talk to about it tend to be elves or fall on the nicer side of the spectrum). 

The massive butthurt if someone dared say anything positive about a rapist that would befall these forums are probably too much for BW to bother with. 
Defense of the Chantry? I'm defending the Chantry? That's...news to me. 

And that the Tevinters are hated by the rest of Thedas and that the Chantry has tryed multiple times to wipe it off the face of the earth went completely over his head.

[Lenimph]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


I'd much rather have people clean up after real human problems.

But in the case of the idol it was greed and hunger for power that led to it even becoming an issue.  They were still problems caused by the weakness of men, but also influenced with magic as well. 

Outside forces effect humanity everyday: animals, weather, seismic forces. No one can control these things, and in Thedas magic is a natural force that humanity is struggling to live with, effects their political mindset, and even their way of faith. 

If you would rather play a game with real problems that have nothing to do with magic then I think Thedas isn't the realm for you. 

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



 ummm... no?


Every time I've posted who's going to be involved (which went beyond just mages vs. Templars), I was told "Oh no they have no reason to participate!"

 

And in that case I wasn't talking about you. You certainly aren't the only promage person in existance. 

Of course not. Your comment just seemed to lump everyone on each side together.

...which was the point seeing as the comment I quoted did the same stupidity. 

[In Exile]

Aradace wrote...
Again, for the 109837408327408123740183 th time, it's NOT about the plausability of her being alive.  

I know. That was the whole joke.

It's about the fact that a decision that some players made was essentially handwaved to suit the vanity of the writers.

As opposed to having the writers create different content for the vanity of the player? I don't get the outrage.

You'll never have me getting the outrage, because it's a video game. Yes, some small portion of the fanbase made a choice that was respect in DA:O but it turns out for some unexplaind reason the character is still alive. So what? 

Beside the point, I already talked about that in the post you quoted.  What do you think "FD" stands for anyway? Fein-DEATH maybe?  I dont care HOW they explain it, as Ive said a dozen times already.  Why? Because it will always feel like the decision I made was essentially ignored because the writers didnt feel like taking the time to create a character to fill Leliana's spot in the case of her dying.  

She died. Magic happend. Big deal. 

It could be the most plausable and rational explanation in the universe.  But to me, it will always seem lame as hell due to afore mentioned reasons.  Even if it was a character I liked.  Take Garrus for instance.  If he somehow died in a playthrough due to my actions,  I would expect him to stay dead.  Death is supposed to be a finality, fantasy world or no.

You must really hate D&D.

In all honesty, DBZ is exactly what I thought of the moment Leliana came back.  "Great" I thought, "We've got another Goku on our hands".  Meaning no matter how many times you kill her, she'll just be brought back again later.  

Or it was a magic one-time thing and relates to an important future plot-point. 

[TEWR]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



 ummm... no?


Every time I've posted who's going to be involved (which went beyond just mages vs. Templars), I was told "Oh no they have no reason to participate!"

 

And in that case I wasn't talking about you. You certainly aren't the only promage person in existance. 

Of course not. Your comment just seemed to lump everyone on each side together.

...which was the point seeing as the comment I quoted did the same stupidity. 

bah.... this thread's starting to get to me.

[Xilizhra]

bah.... this thread's starting to get to me.

Check back a few posts for my view on how they can't win anyway.

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote..

The ones who killed that one guardsman who raped their sister, and who then converted to the Qun.

I thought they were idiots for trying to hide behind the Qunari personally. Respected them for dishing out their own justice. 

My characters don't tend to care one way or another about them. More important matters to deal with. 

Though yeah it doesn't look like rape is condened by common guards. Not overly surprising. It's not condoned within templar ranks either. 

[CrimsonZephyr]

What the hell is going on?

[Monica21]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Magic users happen to be human. The Blight didn't influence people at all.

It's kind of hard for humans, magic users or not, to get to the Golden City (or Black City) without the aid of magic. Magic caused the Blight. It was a human decision, but not possible without magic.

[Herr Uhl]

Xilizhra wrote...

bah.... this thread's starting to get to me.

Check back a few posts for my view on how they can't win anyway.

Because the narrative commands it?

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

What the hell is going on?

Stuff

[LobselVith8]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

What the hell is going on?

The discussion about Leliana's attitude towards mages in "Faith" has expanded to discuss the dichotomy between the mages and the templars in the Dragon Age universe.

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote..

The ones who killed that one guardsman who raped their sister, and who then converted to the Qun.

I thought they were idiots for trying to hide behind the Qunari personally. Respected them for dishing out their own justice. 

My characters don't tend to care one way or another about them. More important matters to deal with. 

Though yeah it doesn't look like rape is condened by common guards. Not overly surprising. It's not condoned within templar ranks either. 

Fair enough. Now can you understand why claiming that a pro-mage position is metagaming is ridiculous?