968 replies to this topic

[Xilizhra]

So... um, Leliana didn't arrive at Cassandra's unit right away, and showed up during the interrogation?

Blargh. I just can't imagine Leliana doing something like this.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

So... um, Leliana didn't arrive at Cassandra's unit right away, and showed up during the interrogation?

Blargh. I just can't imagine Leliana doing something like this.

They clearly knew each other, which is to be expected given their roles (especially Leliana's, we don't know Cassandra's but we know Leliana was "the Divine's left hand").  Seems kind of hard to believe she never mentioned what she found in Kirkwall in the three years between her visit to Kirkwall (and its subsequent implosion) and the Varric interrogation.

Yeah, I know, certainly not the same Leliana we knew in Origins.  But then, I'd have never imagined Anders & Justice blowing up a Chantry to start a war from their presentations in DA:A.  They seem to like ruining populat characters. 

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So... um, Leliana didn't arrive at Cassandra's unit right away, and showed up during the interrogation?

Blargh. I just can't imagine Leliana doing something like this.

They clearly knew each other, which is to be expected given their roles (especially Leliana's, we don't know Cassandra's but we know Leliana was "the Divine's left hand").  Seems kind of hard to believe she never mentioned what she found in Kirkwall in the three years between her visit to Kirkwall (and its subsequent implosion) and the Varric interrogation.

Yeah, I know, certainly not the same Leliana we knew in Origins.  But then, I'd have never imagined Anders & Justice blowing up a Chantry to start a war from their presentations in DA:A.  They seem to like ruining populat characters. 

Really? I always saw Anders as a very dark and twisted person on the inside who used jokes as a shield because of the harsh life he's had.

The real problem is how Bioware just didn't show the transition of comical Anders to possessed Anders for those who didn't see him in the same light.

Hell I would've settled for a flashback within a flashback.

Oh and PS3 Anders is better than PC Anders. PC Anders looks horrendous

[esper]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So... um, Leliana didn't arrive at Cassandra's unit right away, and showed up during the interrogation?

Blargh. I just can't imagine Leliana doing something like this.

They clearly knew each other, which is to be expected given their roles (especially Leliana's, we don't know Cassandra's but we know Leliana was "the Divine's left hand").  Seems kind of hard to believe she never mentioned what she found in Kirkwall in the three years between her visit to Kirkwall (and its subsequent implosion) and the Varric interrogation.

Yeah, I know, certainly not the same Leliana we knew in Origins.  But then, I'd have never imagined Anders & Justice blowing up a Chantry to start a war from their presentations in DA:A.  They seem to like ruining populat characters. 

Really? I always saw Anders as a very dark and twisted person on the inside who used jokes as a shield because of the harsh life he's had.

The real problem is how Bioware just didn't show the transition of comical Anders to possessed Anders for those who didn't see him in the same light.

Hell I would've settled for a flashback within a flashback.

Oh and PS3 Anders is better than PC Anders. PC Anders looks horrendous

I saw Da:a Anders as a very bitter man who tried to hide it with humor and Justice scared me - I felt like my warden could never live up to his standards.

Surprisingly enough I love Da2's Anders-Justice abomination, because he as Merrill says believe with the strength of a 1000 suns. 

[Rifneno]

Really? I found Anders extremely well-adjusted for what he's been through. Nathaniel was far more bitter than Anders. And Justice was my warden's bff. It was fascinating to learn more about how spirits think too. I wish we had an option to ask him what spirits know or think of the Black City, but ah well.

[esper]

My warden had grown cynical doing the blight so in da:a she and Justice didn't always agree on the method, less just leave it at that, and extremely well adjusted for what he had been through doesn't say so much considering what he had been through, but I think we are getting off the Leliana topic here... I am still somewhat dissapointed with how bad a spy Leliana is, but giving the back ground story she told the warden I guess I should have seen it. Telling Majorline that you opened the letter was just plain stupid, Leli -
How is she betrayed in Leliana's song? I never played it.

[Quething]

Rifneno wrote...

we know Leliana was "the Divine's left hand

Well there's your answer. She's just being properly sinister.

*ducks tomatoes*

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

Really? I found Anders extremely well-adjusted for what he's been through. Nathaniel was far more bitter than Anders. And Justice was my warden's bff. It was fascinating to learn more about how spirits think too. I wish we had an option to ask him what spirits know or think of the Black City, but ah well.

I always saw Nathaniel not so much as a man bitter that his father was killed, but that he wasn't around when his father became a sick son of a **** and wasn't able to realize how far he'd (Arl Howe) truly fallen. Eventually, he comes to grips with everything that's happened and is a much better person.

And Justice was awesome. Being able to talk to a spirit and find out their perspective on things was interesting. That spirits don't know about the Maker's existence anymore than anyone else was something I enjoyed, as well as him being able to see that the petty racism that runs rampant in Thedas separates society so much when they have similarities with one another.

I enjoyed all of Awakening's companions. I say we see Velanna and Sigrun again, and naked, drunken Oghren riding on the back of a gorilla whilst fighting Darkspawn.

Though... I want Sigrun to get longer hair. But she'd better stay perky!

[Tirfan]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


I always saw Nathaniel not so much as a man bitter that his father was killed, but that he wasn't around when his father became a sick son of a **** and wasn't able to realize how far he'd (Arl Howe) truly fallen. Eventually, he comes to grips with everything that's happened and is a much better person.

And Justice was awesome. Being able to talk to a spirit and find out their perspective on things was interesting. That spirits don't know about the Maker's existence anymore than anyone else was something I enjoyed, as well as him being able to see that the petty racism that runs rampant in Thedas separates society so much when they have similarities with one another.

I enjoyed all of Awakening's companions. I say we see Velanna and Sigrun again, and naked, drunken Oghren riding on the back of a gorilla whilst fighting Darkspawn.

Though... I want Sigrun to get longer hair. But she'd better stay perky!

How come I'm present always when there is talk of drunk  & naked Oghren?

That would be awesome, really enjoyed all of the companions in Awakening, tho, there were a few things that I wasn't allowed to ask or tell the companions which was kinda sucky.

And while I didn't bother checking what the topic at the time was, I'm kind of skeptical about wanting some characters to make a comeback, while I don't perceive Anders & Justice as ruined.. well, Leliana, Flemeth & Anders cameos combined.. I'm not really sure I would like to see someone like Morrigan make a comeback (but at the same time I want to see how they wrap her storyline up) because I have nightmares about redesigned Morrigan with the standard-edition sequel boobjob.

And redesigned characters with personality-shifts that don't make sense to me... can easily ruin characters, even if the personalityshift was done well, it can lead to serious "wtf"-moments that aren't really good.

[MichaelFinnegan]

tmp7704 wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

If I should venture another guess, this edit would have been at the time when the war with Dales was afoot. Remove anything that would lend praise to the enemy or acknowledge their help in the past - military tactics.

That's similar to what my personal guess of the motivation behind that move is, as well. However, since it's exactly that, just a guess, i can't help but consider extrapolations of it or attempts to then read anything out of it regarding the big picture... to be empty speculations. Which can be fun to make of course, but when people seem to forget it's onlythat, well.

Yes, it is precisely that, a dead end till more information is made available. Any more argument based on that conclusion ought to be, not necessarily empty, but definitely more suspect. So I agree.

[tmp7704]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Brother Genitivi mentions that there has been several purges done in to keep order in the alienage of Denerim the last decade alone. That would infer some kind of patrols at least. Purge could be anything between pointy sticks to guts to looking for drugs and weapons, so it could be anything between those. I assumed that it would be the former before DAO was released, but I am leaning towards the latter now.

The way Genitivi's decription is worded, i got instead an impression he talks about something like "the alienage is overflowing with elves -> the elves get pissed at their living conditions to the point they start riots -> guards enter and put them down". Similar to how there's a possible epilogue card which has Anora doing that at some point.

I imagine given the weapon ban there may be some equivalent of sword hunts performed in the alienage every now and then. I'm dubious about regular patrols, though

[Sepewrath]

Rifneno wrote...
Gee, if only she were a skilled spy and could get information by doing more than going into the Gallows and talking to the first templar she sees.

A spy whose talent was blending in with high society, something tells me, she wouldn't be mistaked for a Templar or Mage. Maybe if we were talking Zevran here, he could have infiltrated the place, but that wasn't her forte remember.

esper wrote...
The problem is not whereever Leliana believes
Hawke the problem is that a pro-mage Hawke basically only can say: It is
not so bad.
A pro-mage Hawke should be able to blame Meriditth: True or not.

Interesting, once again, people are demanding actions that would have no effect, When they give them to you, then people are on here complaining "Oh my choices didn't matter :crying:"

[Wulfram]

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

A thought: Leliana goes to the Keep first on her mission, and does the rest of her spying thereafter.

Nope.  Leliana is with Cassandra's unit when she interrogates Varric.  Cassandra thought Hawke was the one who screwed everything up and was surprised to find out Meredith was a psychopath.  "If what you say is true... what happened at the Gallows may be far different than we had assumed."  "So it was Meredith's fault. She *different dialogue depending on who Hawke sided with*."

I'm sure someone can come up with some poor, convoluted excuse that Cassandra's preconceptions doesn't mean Leliana epic failed, but I'm not going to buy it.

Cassandra apparently knew about the idol, which implies that she knew about Meredith being crazy.

[MichaelFinnegan]

Wulfram wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

A thought: Leliana goes to the Keep first on her mission, and does the rest of her spying thereafter.

Nope.  Leliana is with Cassandra's unit when she interrogates Varric.  Cassandra thought Hawke was the one who screwed everything up and was surprised to find out Meredith was a psychopath.  "If what you say is true... what happened at the Gallows may be far different than we had assumed."  "So it was Meredith's fault. She *different dialogue depending on who Hawke sided with*."

I'm sure someone can come up with some poor, convoluted excuse that Cassandra's preconceptions doesn't mean Leliana epic failed, but I'm not going to buy it.

Cassandra apparently knew about the idol, which implies that she knew about Meredith being crazy.

That is my suspicion as well. I think Cassandra knew about what happened with Meredith and the idol at Kirkwall, but initially she had the impression that Hawke knew the idol's powers before he/she signed up for the Deep Roads expedition and thought he/she intentionally brought the idol to Kirkwall to somehow influence Meredith. To put the Chantry in a bad light, so to say. Later Cassandra simply realizes that it was Meredith's fault.

[Urazz]

Wulfram wrote...

Cassandra apparently knew about the idol, which implies that she knew about Meredith being crazy.

Or the Templars at Kirkwall reported the circumstances of Meredith's death, what was said by Hawke and his party at the time of Meredith's death, and after that Cassandra could've looked up records and stuff and found Meredith purchased some wierd Lyrium idol and had it forged into a sword.

The Lyrium Idol wasn't cheap (Bartrand would've never betrayed Varric and Hawke for just the idol if it wasn't worth a fortune.) so Meredith most likely bought it with Chantry/Templar resources and had it forged into a sword by templar blacksmiths.

Looking up information on Bartrand and how he got the idol would've lead to the expedition and that Bartrand is related to Varric, one of the accomplices to what happened at the gallows and a noted friend/associate of Hawke.


With all of that, it's pretty easy to come up with the assumptions she had and decide to hunt down Hawke and his accomplices for an interrogation of the events in Kirkwall for a more complete story.

Edited by Urazz, 19 August 2011 - 12:10 PM.

[TEWR]

Tirfan wrote...

How come I'm present always when there is talk of drunk  & naked Oghren?

He attracts everyone. His seed is within everyone on here. Embrace Oghren's seed!

That would be awesome, really enjoyed all of the companions in Awakening, tho, there were a few things that I wasn't allowed to ask or tell the companions which was kinda sucky.

And while I didn't bother checking what the topic at the time was, I'm kind of skeptical about wanting some characters to make a comeback, while I don't perceive Anders & Justice as ruined.. well, Leliana, Flemeth & Anders cameos combined.. I'm not really sure I would like to see someone like Morrigan make a comeback (but at the same time I want to see how they wrap her storyline up) because I have nightmares about redesigned Morrigan with the standard-edition sequel boobjob.

And redesigned characters with personality-shifts that don't make sense to me... can easily ruin characters, even if the personalityshift was done well, it can lead to serious "wtf"-moments that aren't really good.

Agreed on Awakening companions being awesome, the sadness at not being able to converse with them (I had so many questions I wanted to ask Justice about his life in the Fade).

I think Flemeth and Anders were great, but Anders needed to have a scene showing his merging with Justice. Leliana just comes off as an anti-mage idiot now who couldn't even bother to tell Cassandra the information on Meredith she had, according to DG, discovered. That makes even less sense than her just being anti-mage.

As for Morrigan, her boobs were already pretty big. And I remember the devs saying they're going to work really hard to make Morrigan look great and not horrific.

[Tirfan]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

How come I'm present always when there is talk of drunk  & naked Oghren?

He attracts everyone. His seed is within everyone on here. Embrace Oghren's seed!

And I have.. drunk & naked Oghren is what is needed to restore my trust in the franchise.

Agreed on Awakening companions being awesome, the sadness at not being able to converse with them (I had so many questions I wanted to ask Justice about his life in the Fade).

I think Flemeth and Anders were great, but Anders needed to have a scene showing his merging with Justice. Leliana just comes off as an anti-mage idiot now who couldn't even bother to tell Cassandra the information on Meredith she had, according to DG, discovered. That makes even less sense than her just being anti-mage.

As for Morrigan, her boobs were already pretty big. And I remember the devs saying they're going to work really hard to make Morrigan look great and not horrific.

Yeah.. I really wanted to get drunk with Oghren on his hell-brew and tell him that "yeah.. you know, I've got a kid too with Morrigan.. you know.. but were men, sometimes we just do what we have to do.. I'd want to look for the kid & Morri but we need to deal with sh*t.. you know. I love you, man, I love you. *brofist*" Luckily, there is headcannon, this happened before the battle of Amaranthine.

Well, you know my opinion on Flemeth, but Anders did work. Lel didn't work, but well, mostly because she was a bloody zombie in my playtrough. Didn't pay much attention to what she said because I was /facepalming so hard.

And yeah, while Morrigan had kinda big boobs, they shouldn't get any larger, and BW better make her look great, I'm going completely crazy if she doesn't. But more importantly, the writing for her has to be great, there is no better way to make me really loathe this franchise than ruining Morrigan. And well, seriously, great writing on Morri-story would make for decent DA-game, which is the best I can hope for any future DA-game to ever be.

[Darkrider296]

I never trusted Lelianna after the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest. If you bring her along the lyrium induced spirit heavily implies that her maker beliefs were just a way of creating controversy in the boring Chantry. Think about Lelianna admits to being bored during her time in the Chantry so its in her bard nature to ruffle some feathers among her peers.

[Rifneno]

Darkrider296 wrote...

I never trusted Lelianna after the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest. If you bring her along the lyrium induced spirit heavily implies that her maker beliefs were just a way of creating controversy in the boring Chantry. Think about Lelianna admits to being bored during her time in the Chantry so its in her bard nature to ruffle some feathers among her peers.

Don't sugar coat.  This is the internet.  We all now what the word is...

The spirit guardian called Leliana a troll.