968 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

Ryzaki wrote...

I guess that would explain Wynne's resurrection as well.

Well, Wynne is tied to a Fade spirit.

[Ryzaki]

Zanallen wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I guess that would explain Wynne's resurrection as well.

Well, Wynne is tied to a Fade spirit.

True but bleh. At least in ME if someone's dead (that's not Shepard) they stay dead. > 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 août 2011 - 07:03 .

[Rifneno]

Zanallen wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I guess that would explain Wynne's resurrection as well.

Well, Wynne is tied to a Fade spirit.

'tis a demon of nagging!

[Zanallen]

Ryzaki wrote...

True but bleh. At least in ME if someone's dead (that's not Shepard) they stay dead. > 

Yeah, but Shepard's canon resurrection makes up any amount of DA ones. He was sucked out of a ship into space and then fell into orbit and burnt up. It is ridiculous that they could revive him at all.

[Aradace]

Zanallen wrote...

Aradace wrote...

@Zan - FD? Really? That's even more lame than using "religion" to explain her death.

So the established rogue ability is a lame excuse? Makes sense to me. Your warden tried to kill her, she faked her death to get away.

It's lame because it's still essentially "hand waving" a decision you made in the previous game.  As Ive said before, it makes the writers look lazy when they cant come up with an alternate character to fill Leliana's position given the event of her dying in the first game.  It's a cheap way out no matter how you look at it.


@Zan - Shepard's circumstances are different.  And by that I mean it was said even before the game's release that Shepard will start the game "dead" and could possibly end the game dead as well.  Meaning that it was written in the script and beyond the scope of the player's decision to "avoid" that death at all.  Had we not had the option to fight Leliana at all in Origins, it'd be the same as Shepard's circumstances.

Modifié par Aradace, 13 août 2011 - 07:13 .

[Zanallen]

Aradace wrote...

It's lame because it's still essentially "hand waving" a decision you made in the previous game.  As Ive said before, it makes the writers look lazy when they cant come up with an alternate character to fill Leliana's position given the event of her dying in the first game.  It's a cheap way out no matter how you look at it.

Well, if only a small number of players made the decision to kill Leliana, why should the writers bother making a new character? There are a number of reasons why she could have survived.

[Aradace]

Filament wrote...

I'm sure they could have come up with a new character just fine. I imagine they chose Leliana because they wanted Leliana specifically. Both as a matter of continuity between games despite the different protagonists (same as Merrill, Isabela, Anders), and because they want to further develop her character.

Then why give us the option to fight her in Origins to begin with when the writers were going to simply hand wave that decision essentially anyway?  


@Zan - Regardless of how many people made the decision or not.  The point is, they took that decision away and are going to try and explain it away as some "divine" act.  Again, why give us the option to kill her in Origins when the decision ended up being hand waved to begin with?

Modifié par Aradace, 13 août 2011 - 07:16 .

[Aradace]

Filament wrote...

Because you did something she wouldn't stand for.

Right, and for being STUPID enough to attack the Warden, she should have to stay dead because of it...The End.  Once again, lazy writing that she didnt stay dead to begin with.

[Ryzaki]

Zanallen wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

True but bleh. At least in ME if someone's dead (that's not Shepard) they stay dead. > 

Yeah, but Shepard's canon resurrection makes up any amount of DA ones. He was sucked out of a ship into space and then fell into orbit and burnt up. It is ridiculous that they could revive him at all.

I'm convinced they used Reaper Tech. It's not beyond believeability that Reapers could do such a thing. 

Uh...on Leliana. There's no hints that she's still alive. Where's with Shepard...well you knew he wasn't gonna stay dead because the game had just started. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 août 2011 - 07:23 .

[TEWR]

Aradace wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sacred Ashes location is special, it isn't all that exaggerated that somebody can come back to life or something in that specific location. It isn't making the Dragon Age setting "RUINED FOREVER".

Ruining it? Of course not.  Making it a world full of cliche and lame/lazy writing? Absolutely.

The entire series has had cliche writing (to some people. Honestly I don't care whether the writing is cliche or not since I don't describe things as cliche. So long as it's done well).

Save the world, experiment gone wrong, etc.

Wouldn't be anything new. Besides, there's more than enough in the entire Gauntlet to explain her survival.


EDIT: Whether it was the devs' intent to make Leliana anti-mage or not is irrelevant considering her dialogue was poorly handled and makes her seem that way.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 août 2011 - 07:30 .

[bleetman]

If only there was some mysterious, ancient entity in the Dragon Age setting with a penchant for intervening in the death of various characters, which might serve as an explanation for Leliana's survival if "lyrium walls and all that" isn't sufficient.

It's one I'm content to accept for the time being, anyway.

Modifié par bleetman, 13 août 2011 - 07:29 .

[Chun Hei]

I AM hoping for an explanation for S.N. survival even though I never killed her. I am not even sure how to start a fight to be honest but then I could not stand her in my party for very long.

1) She "feigned death" which is a rogue ability. Not sure how that helps if you got the beheading animation but maybe death animations are not cannon.

2) Flemeth or some other mage magically brought her back for the same reason she saved the Warden and Hawke. Whatever reason that is.

3) She is NOT Leliana but is instead Flemeth or Morrigan as a shape-changer. Morrigan said she learned nothing by turning into another human but not that she could not do it. Plus she lies a lot.

[Aradace]

Filament wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Filament wrote...

Because you did something she wouldn't stand for.

Right, and for being STUPID enough to attack the Warden, she should have to stay dead because of it...The End.  Once again, lazy writing that she didnt stay dead to begin with.

Is this in the world where anything that doesn't conform to your personal desires = lazy writing?

Of course not.  It's simply my opinion that it's lazy writing.  Regardless of their reasons for NOT doing it, they COULD HAVE and SHOULD HAVE written in an alternate character for those folks who killed Leliana.  

@Redux - True.  But nothing screams cliche more (imo) than ret-cons.  IMO a ret-con is what a writer does when they are either too lazy to do something else, or running out of ideas to begin with.

Modifié par Aradace, 13 août 2011 - 07:30 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Rifneno wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
More than a few people have seen Leliana's cameo as a sign that she's now anti-mage, given her comments about "tolerating" mages who want independence from the Chantry and the general comments she made, as well as her attitude about an Exalted March against Kirkwall and its inhabitiants if mages gain autonomy from the Chantry. Given how Leliana seemed to be anti-mage in "Faith," despite her portrayal in Origins (especially in her conversations with Wynne), do you think she going to continue to be portrayed as an anti-mage Chantry member, or will she be be depicted as she was in her first appearance?

We haven't "portrayed" her as anti-mage. Some people (particularly those who are prone to exaggeration on the topic) do seem to interpret her as such, however, based on relatively little information.

Then you failed.  She went from sympathetic to a blood mage that tried to murder an Arl to saying a handful of rebels in the Circle from Hell condemns them.  And given Elthina said she's there to investigate for an exalted march...  Well, I fail to see how anyone can say she's the same old Leliana from Origins.

In DA:O, Leliana was just a lay sister questioning her faith, wondering whether or not the Maker was speaking to her and had issues with her past (Marjolaine's betrayal). She's now a high-ranking Seeker in DA2. In the present, she has a job and what looks like a strong commitment to said job. I would assume that events in DA:O cemented her faith.

In DA2, she was laying a trap for a group of mages known to be subservsives who, from what I understand, generally try to stir up trouble. She was probably sympathetic towards Jowan and the Arl Eamon situation because the guy was truly repententant. Jowan was a bit of a sad sack and a doofus who makes bad decisions- he wasn't exactly a "RAWR, I WILL KILL EVERYONE AND BRING DOWN THE CHANTRY!!!" kind of bloodmage. Leliana seems justified in not seeming particularly sympathetic towards Resolutionists trying to start a rebellion, but that doesn't strike me as being generally "anti-mage."

[miraclemight]

Ryzaki wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

True but bleh. At least in ME if someone's dead (that's not Shepard) they stay dead. > 

Yeah, but Shepard's canon resurrection makes up any amount of DA ones. He was sucked out of a ship into space and then fell into orbit and burnt up. It is ridiculous that they could revive him at all.

I'm convinced they used Reaper Tech. It's not beyond believeability that Reapers could do such a thing. 

I completely believe that theory.

Back on Lelianna - Didn't one of the devs said she survived because of the healing powers of the Urn? Still doesn't how she can survive if the Warden leave her behind in Lothering. Escaped with the Templars and the other sisters of the Chantry?

[Herr Uhl]

miraclemight wrote...

Back on Lelianna - Didn't one of the devs said she survived because of the healing powers of the Urn? Still doesn't how she can survive if the Warden leave her behind in Lothering. Escaped with the Templars and the other sisters of the Chantry?

She walked away?

[CrimsonZephyr]

Herr Uhl wrote...

miraclemight wrote...

Back on Lelianna - Didn't one of the devs said she survived because of the healing powers of the Urn? Still doesn't how she can survive if the Warden leave her behind in Lothering. Escaped with the Templars and the other sisters of the Chantry?

She walked away?

From an onrushing horde of thousands of darkspawn.

Power walk, anyone?

[Herr Uhl]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

miraclemight wrote...

Back on Lelianna - Didn't one of the devs said she survived because of the healing powers of the Urn? Still doesn't how she can survive if the Warden leave her behind in Lothering. Escaped with the Templars and the other sisters of the Chantry?

She walked away?

From an onrushing horde of thousands of darkspawn.

Power walk, anyone?

The warden managed to do it.

[TEWR]

defiling the urn doesn't even mean it lost its powers. Dragon's blood has the power to give people higher strength and endurance. That Kolgrim thought defiling the ashes would render them useless doesn't mean he's right.

Dragon Cultists are known to go insane, as the codex on dragon cults says.

[TEWR]

Herr Uhl wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

miraclemight wrote...

Back on Lelianna - Didn't one of the devs said she survived because of the healing powers of the Urn? Still doesn't how she can survive if the Warden leave her behind in Lothering. Escaped with the Templars and the other sisters of the Chantry?

She walked away?

From an onrushing horde of thousands of darkspawn.

Power walk, anyone?

The warden managed to do it.

She roped a couple of sea turtles together

[miraclemight]

And we saw how poorly it ended at the top of the Tower of Ishal.

PS. Stop pyramid-quoting my typo-ful sentence. >>

[Aradace]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

defiling the urn doesn't even mean it lost its powers. Dragon's blood has the power to give people higher strength and endurance. That Kolgrim thought defiling the ashes would render them useless doesn't mean he's right.

Dragon Cultists are known to go insane, as the codex on dragon cults says.

Again, it's still lame IMO.  It'd have been much better if during the fight she had popped stealth and "vanished".  FD cant even aptly explain it "properly" because any fighter worth their grit, especially if they know the person they're fighting could possibly try to FD, would walk over and make sure to "Finsih" the job.  Because I know I would.  You're telling me that the Warden can slay the Archdemon but not have the common sense to make sure that someone is dead?