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[Macropodmum]

TheJediSaint wrote...

Just to give my opinion on the main topic.  I never got the impression that Lelianna was expressing any anti-mage sympathies when my PC interacted with her during the Sister Nightingale quest. 

The impression she gave me was that she was on a mission from the Divine to investigate the activities of a group a mages who were willing to use violence to challenge the Chantry's authority, something I doubt a pious super spy in the service of the Divine would tolerate.

There's nothing inherently anti-mage about wanting to protect the Chantry those who seek to harm it, as Lelianna clearly does. This is somehting that is complelty consistent with what has been established about the character.

I thought similar through both of my conversations with her.  I don't remember anyone actually saying there was an exalted march coming, more that it was something that could (reasonably) be inferred.  Elthina says the Divine was concerned and it wasn't wise to attract the attention of the powerful.  I believe from memory that Leliana didn't actually say there was a march coming either, when she warned for Elthina to get out of Dodge she could have seen the chantry blowing up in a vision I guess....

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

 Mad Cow Meredith

Lol, love this

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Agreed. The entire Mage-Templar plot was loosely tied together over the three acts when there was more than enough to tie it together completely. Having Meredith fall back on the idol was not necessary when her own zeal would've sufficed.

Yes, but then she wouldn't have had super powers or been able to become the newest pigeon roost

[Melca36]

Solar1101 wrote...

Most of the mages turn to blood magery no matter what you do so the whole thing was ham handed. 

Why assume that all mages wish to become bloodmages when that is NOT the case at all?

[Pzykozis]

Hmm, did find it odd to have Leliana who my mage warden was good friends with being... not openly anti-mage but.. very... lacking compassion (probably the best way I can put it).. she seemed hard (well I did harden her I suppose though I'm not sure that carries forward especially since she seemed a lot less religious at the end of Origins and now she's working for the bloody Divine)

Oh well, all I know is that I liked leliana (though her eyelashes talk was... odd) in Origins and I wanted to slap her in DA2, that's a fairly big switch in character for me, but I'll wait for further expansion I guess.

[Macropodmum]

Eyelashes talk?

[Pzykozis]

Macropodmum wrote...

Eyelashes talk?

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Leliana/Approval

Ctrl + f -> Eyelash

Odd. Then again maybe my eventual romance with Morrigan and leaving Leliana and obvious subsequent depression that being jilted by one so awesome as I would bring caused her to change so much.

[Macropodmum]

Lol ok, I've never romanced her so I've never seen that

[Rifneno]

David Gaider wrote...

For one, I don't think a suggestion that a group of mages seeking their freedom through violence and blood magic is a problem for everyone equates to her being anti-mage. Nor does a support of the Chantry also automatically equate to being anti-mage-- unless one's opinion is that anyone who supports the Chantry and its ideals is automatically guilty by association (such as characters like Wynne). Considering the bias against anything vaguely religious expressed by some people on the forums, that attitude wouldn't particularly surprise me.

All I've suggested is that some folks are seeing some ice on the water and calling it an iceberg-- you haven't been given a lot of information on Leliana or her purpose at this point, and while that's intentional I'd at least advise those making interpretations to realize that's what they're doing. Anyone getting upset because they've filled in the blanks themselves and don't like the picture they've drawn seems a little over the top.

Speculation, of course, is expected. So carry on.

First of all, the hatred of the Chantry is not simply because people hate religion. It's because the Chantry is depicted as a corrupt and borderline evil organization in DA2. I had no problem with the Chantry in DAO. I thought they did a lot of good for the people and while there were a few problem templars, on the whole they seemed good people. The Circle, while I may not have agreed with some parts of it, wasn't exactly a big problem because Kinloch Hold was a very nice place with what seemed like excellent education.

DA2 gave us the exact opposite. The mages are horribly abused and neither the Chantry nor the templars as a whole seemed to care one bit. We see templars like Samson getting kicked on the curb and left to die a horrible death of lyrium withdrawal for the grand crime of delivering a love letter for an inmate, yet soulless monsters like Alrik and Karras never seem to meet justice unless the player takes the law into their own hands. Mother Petrice tries to lead a lynch mob of idiot farmers with pitchforks to what I can only imagine as a grand mass suicide against the Qunari, some of the best warriors on Thedas. Not because of any legitimate reason like worry over them invading again, but because "they're a test of our faith." And the Grand Cleric just sits back through everything and lets it happen.

So tell me, what are we supposed to think of the Chantry now? We're supposed to believe they're not rotten to the core? Virtually everything done by the Chantry in DA2 is, to put it politely, unfavorable.

About Leliana, I believe this quote from DAO sums it up well: "But I do not wish death upon anyone." That's what she says about killing the Loghain soldiers that tried to kill the Warden and her. That's not the same woman we met in the Faith quest. Either she's anti-mage now, or her entire personality has taken a complete 180.

[Aradace]

In Exile wrote...

Aradace wrote...
Again, it's still lame IMO.  It'd have been much better if during the fight she had popped stealth and "vanished".  FD cant even aptly explain it "properly" because any fighter worth their grit, especially if they know the person they're fighting could possibly try to FD, would walk over and make sure to "Finsih" the job.  Because I know I would.  You're telling me that the Warden can slay the Archdemon but not have the common sense to make sure that someone is dead?

Maybe she just used feign death. 

Again, for the 109837408327408123740183 th time, it's NOT about the plausability of her being alive.  It's about the fact that a decision that some players made was essentially handwaved to suit the vanity of the writers.  Beside the point, I already talked about that in the post you quoted.  What do you think "FD" stands for anyway? Fein-DEATH maybe?  I dont care HOW they explain it, as Ive said a dozen times already.  Why? Because it will always feel like the decision I made was essentially ignored because the writers didnt feel like taking the time to create a character to fill Leliana's spot in the case of her dying.  

It could be the most plausable and rational explanation in the universe.  But to me, it will always seem lame as hell due to afore mentioned reasons.  Even if it was a character I liked.  Take Garrus for instance.  If he somehow died in a playthrough due to my actions,  I would expect him to stay dead.  Death is supposed to be a finality, fantasy world or no.  If a character's death can be "rezzed" or "explained away" at any given point, it cheapens the experience for me.  It then begins to feel like Dragon Ball Z or something equally as cheesy where a character may die in one episode, but 10 episodes later after they collect the Dragon Balls again, they simply wish the character back to life.  

In all honesty, DBZ is exactly what I thought of the moment Leliana came back.  "Great" I thought, "We've got another Goku on our hands".  Meaning no matter how many times you kill her, she'll just be brought back again later.  

[esper]

Ressurection is all right as long as it is done sparse and with a hell of a good explanation as to why the character wasn't dead anyway or actually got resurrected. I will say, however, that bioware has done it two times now - Anders and Leliana. So I don't wish to see it anymore, because then it would feel cheap (And I still expect/demand a good reason for those that killed her).

[RagingCyclone]

David Gaider wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Mr. Gaider, I think the dialogue wasn't really good for her. It seems to convey that anti-mage stance. Add into that she doesn't even bother to research why the resolutionists have done what they did, and Leliana just seems like an incredibly different person. An incompetent person even.

Meredith usurps the throne of the Viscount for 3 years and becomes a tyrant to the mages, and Leliana didn't even bother to look into it? That's not okay.

Leliana was sent to find out what was causing the unrest, and as soon as the resolutionists attack her because she baited them, she blames them.

Hell Anders even says that it doesn't take a resolutionist to want freedom.

And if she was pro-chantry regarding mages, why doesn't she take issue with a Mage Warden who requested the boon for mage independence?

It would be difficult to answer your questions without first addressing the assumptions you're making-- and to do that, I'd need to go into more detail regarding what she was actually doing. Which I won't. Considering that she didn't go into it either, it would be a mistake to assume what she "bothered" to do on any front.

I'll say this much: Leliana stated that the mages seeking to abolish the Circle -- particularly in the manner the Resolutionists were going after it -- would cause problems for everyone, and very likely bring the Chantry down on them in force. She did not say she supported the Chantry doing so, nor that she thought that mages didn't have problems that required addressing. She said nothing of Meredith, nor did she suggest the Resolutionists acted without cause.

Some people are applying a great deal of weight to the way she said "tolerated"-- as if mages wanting freedom were terrible people deserving of nothing, as opposed to people who were causing terrible problems.

Would you feel better if she'd gone into depth to assure you (the player) how she really felt, and what she was going to do with the results of her investigation? Perhaps-- but that wasn't the point. You'll have to wait for those answers. In the meantime, simply realize that you're filling in the blanks... if you stick to the things that Leliana actually said, you'll be fine.

Or you can assume Leliana's a completely different person and interpret her words to mean she was sent to stop the rebellion instead of investigate it, and thinks that all mages wanting freedom are just trouble-makers and ingrates. It's up to you-- but suggesting that the dialogue conveyed things it didn't even touch on and saying things like "Leliana has changed! She hates mages now!" is a bit of a stretch even for speculation.

As someone who is a fan of Leliana and romanced her on several runs, and when did not romance instead hardened her...I cannot understand how she was there in that capacity in the first place. Taken the runs I made with her in Origins, her dialgue, and her demeanor once hardened...She should not have even been there as the hand of the Divine.  It seems a huge departure from her character from one game to the next.  For one who has studied her dialogue extensively in the toolset and during gamelplay in Origins, her mere appearance as Sister Nightengale boggles my mind and seems OOC for her from one game to the next. My question is...why is she even there in that function in the first place if she was romanced by the warden (no matter what origin or class) or hardened after dealing with Marjolaine?

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 14 août 2011 - 01:30 .

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

For one, I don't think a suggestion that a group of mages seeking their freedom through violence and blood magic is a problem for everyone equates to her being anti-mage. Nor does a support of the Chantry also automatically equate to being anti-mage-- unless one's opinion is that anyone who supports the Chantry and its ideals is automatically guilty by association (such as characters like Wynne). Considering the bias against anything vaguely religious expressed by some people on the forums, that attitude wouldn't particularly surprise me.

All I've suggested is that some folks are seeing some ice on the water and calling it an iceberg-- you haven't been given a lot of information on Leliana or her purpose at this point, and while that's intentional I'd at least advise those making interpretations to realize that's what they're doing. Anyone getting upset because they've filled in the blanks themselves and don't like the picture they've drawn seems a little over the top.

Speculation, of course, is expected. So carry on.

First of all, the hatred of the Chantry is not simply because people hate religion. It's because the Chantry is depicted as a corrupt and borderline evil organization in DA2. I had no problem with the Chantry in DAO. I thought they did a lot of good for the people and while there were a few problem templars, on the whole they seemed good people. The Circle, while I may not have agreed with some parts of it, wasn't exactly a big problem because Kinloch Hold was a very nice place with what seemed like excellent education.

DA2 gave us the exact opposite. The mages are horribly abused and neither the Chantry nor the templars as a whole seemed to care one bit. We see templars like Samson getting kicked on the curb and left to die a horrible death of lyrium withdrawal for the grand crime of delivering a love letter for an inmate, yet soulless monsters like Alrik and Karras never seem to meet justice unless the player takes the law into their own hands. Mother Petrice tries to lead a lynch mob of idiot farmers with pitchforks to what I can only imagine as a grand mass suicide against the Qunari, some of the best warriors on Thedas. Not because of any legitimate reason like worry over them invading again, but because "they're a test of our faith." And the Grand Cleric just sits back through everything and lets it happen.

So tell me, what are we supposed to think of the Chantry now? We're supposed to believe they're not rotten to the core? Virtually everything done by the Chantry in DA2 is, to put it politely, unfavorable.

About Leliana, I believe this quote from DAO sums it up well: "But I do not wish death upon anyone." That's what she says about killing the Loghain soldiers that tried to kill the Warden and her. That's not the same woman we met in the Faith quest. Either she's anti-mage now, or her entire personality has taken a complete 180.

Great post Rifneno.

Even the Chantry in DAO had a few priests who would call the PC a heathen if he was an atheist/elf/Dwarf. They parallel real world religions a lot, and that they wouldn't respect another person's beliefs made me hate the Chantry. I don't hate them because they're a religion. I hate them because of how they use their religion.

Believing in the Maker is fine to me. Praising Andraste is fine to me. The Chantry's notion want to spread the Chant across the four corners of the earth, even if that means killing innocents for believing in something else, is not fine because all they want is political influence everywhere and to control mages everywhere.

And according to their belief system anyone who dies and doesn't believe in the Maker doesn't achieve salvation, so how they're saving anyone by killing a non-believer is beyond me.

And in DAO, Leliana says that the Chantry would accept a repentant maleficar. That seemed to be fairly pro-mage. There are a few instances where Leliana seemed to care more about the life of a person, no matter who they were, than anything else.

[Wulfram]

RagingCyclone wrote...

As someone who is a fan of Leliana and romanced her on several runs, and when did not romance instead hardened her...I cannot understand how she was there in that capacity in the first place. Taken the runs I made with her in Origins, her dialgue, and her demeanor once hardened...She should not have even been there as the hand of the Divine.  It seems a huge departure from her character from one game to the next.  For one who has studied her dialogue extensively in the toolset and during gamelplay in Origins, her mere appearance as Sister Nightengale boggles my mind and seems OOC for her from one game to the next. My question is...why is she even there in that function in the first place if she was romanced by the warden (no matter what origin or class) or hardened after dealing with Marjolaine?

I find Leliana in DA2 more in character with hardened Leliana than unhardened.  It seems like she's basically gone back to being an Orlesian Bard, which is what hardening was all about.

Modifié par Wulfram, 14 août 2011 - 02:52 .

[esper]

Rifneno wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

For one, I don't think a suggestion that a group of mages seeking their freedom through violence and blood magic is a problem for everyone equates to her being anti-mage. Nor does a support of the Chantry also automatically equate to being anti-mage-- unless one's opinion is that anyone who supports the Chantry and its ideals is automatically guilty by association (such as characters like Wynne). Considering the bias against anything vaguely religious expressed by some people on the forums, that attitude wouldn't particularly surprise me.

All I've suggested is that some folks are seeing some ice on the water and calling it an iceberg-- you haven't been given a lot of information on Leliana or her purpose at this point, and while that's intentional I'd at least advise those making interpretations to realize that's what they're doing. Anyone getting upset because they've filled in the blanks themselves and don't like the picture they've drawn seems a little over the top.

Speculation, of course, is expected. So carry on.

First of all, the hatred of the Chantry is not simply because people hate religion. It's because the Chantry is depicted as a corrupt and borderline evil organization in DA2. I had no problem with the Chantry in DAO. I thought they did a lot of good for the people and while there were a few problem templars, on the whole they seemed good people. The Circle, while I may not have agreed with some parts of it, wasn't exactly a big problem because Kinloch Hold was a very nice place with what seemed like excellent education.

DA2 gave us the exact opposite. The mages are horribly abused and neither the Chantry nor the templars as a whole seemed to care one bit. We see templars like Samson getting kicked on the curb and left to die a horrible death of lyrium withdrawal for the grand crime of delivering a love letter for an inmate, yet soulless monsters like Alrik and Karras never seem to meet justice unless the player takes the law into their own hands. Mother Petrice tries to lead a lynch mob of idiot farmers with pitchforks to what I can only imagine as a grand mass suicide against the Qunari, some of the best warriors on Thedas. Not because of any legitimate reason like worry over them invading again, but because "they're a test of our faith." And the Grand Cleric just sits back through everything and lets it happen.

So tell me, what are we supposed to think of the Chantry now? We're supposed to believe they're not rotten to the core? Virtually everything done by the Chantry in DA2 is, to put it politely, unfavorable.

About Leliana, I believe this quote from DAO sums it up well: "But I do not wish death upon anyone." That's what she says about killing the Loghain soldiers that tried to kill the Warden and her. That's not the same woman we met in the Faith quest. Either she's anti-mage now, or her entire personality has taken a complete 180.

Well said, Rifneno and also how I feel. As it stands now we would have to choose between the Chantry and the Qunari for me to sign up with the chantry. Perhaps it is not Leliana that has changed so much, perhaps it is more me who has started to pay attention to how the chantry works. The chantry really have to work hard in DA3 for me to be just slightly positive about it again. The Andristian fate didn't bother me in da:o, because I didn't pay to much attenttion to it then - it was just religion, but now I do and the core of it: The chantry wanting to spread the chant to all four corner of the world disturbs me. First of the Maker does not seem like a deity whose attention we should want back, and second of all spreading a faith to all four corners of the world usually comes violence. 
Wynne is not guilty by association - she just believe in her faith, but as it is now Leliana is said to work actively for the Divine, for the organisation the Chantry. That means I don't trust her anymore.  

[DPSSOC]

Rifneno wrote...
So tell me, what are we supposed to think of the Chantry now? We're supposed to believe they're not rotten to the core? Virtually everything done by the Chantry in DA2 is, to put it politely, unfavorable.

Is there anything about Kirkwall that is favourable?  The Viscount's incompetent, the Guard is corrupt (until a foreigner takes over), the Chantry and Templars go without saying, almost every mage not chained (figuratively and literally) is an insane murderer, and you can't walk the streets at night without literal hordes of people trying to kill you.

Perhaps the Chantry is meant to illustrate the depth of madness that's present in the entire city.

[Herr Uhl]

DPSSOC wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
So tell me, what are we supposed to think of the Chantry now? We're supposed to believe they're not rotten to the core? Virtually everything done by the Chantry in DA2 is, to put it politely, unfavorable.

Is there anything about Kirkwall that is favourable?  The Viscount's incompetent, the Guard is corrupt (until a foreigner takes over), the Chantry and Templars go without saying, almost every mage not chained (figuratively and literally) is an insane murderer, and you can't walk the streets at night without literal hordes of people trying to kill you.

Perhaps the Chantry is meant to illustrate the depth of madness that's present in the entire city.

Every side is painted out to be a charicature of themselves it seems. Every apostate is a cackling bloodmage/abomination and the chantry is painted out to be either zealots, incompetent or abusive.

So if you're willing to believe the latter, the former is about as likely to be correct. 

[RagingCyclone]

Wulfram wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

As someone who is a fan of Leliana and romanced her on several runs, and when did not romance instead hardened her...I cannot understand how she was there in that capacity in the first place. Taken the runs I made with her in Origins, her dialgue, and her demeanor once hardened...She should not have even been there as the hand of the Divine.  It seems a huge departure from her character from one game to the next.  For one who has studied her dialogue extensively in the toolset and during gamelplay in Origins, her mere appearance as Sister Nightengale boggles my mind and seems OOC for her from one game to the next. My question is...why is she even there in that function in the first place if she was romanced by the warden (no matter what origin or class) or hardened after dealing with Marjolaine?

I find Leliana in DA2 more in character with hardened Leliana than unhardened.  It seems like she's basically gone back to being an Orlesian Bard, which is what hardening was all about.

From the toolset with hardened Leliana:
Marjoliane killed:
Warden: What will you do when this is all over?
Leliana: I don't know...I think returning to Orlais would be the first order of business.  Marjolaine may be dead, but who knows what other events she set in motion in the years I was away. I deserve a fresh start, and I cannot have that if I am prusued by people from my past. They must be dealt with.
Warden: You mean killed?
Leliana: I was hoping a firm warning would suffice, but you never know. I may have to seek a more permanent solution.

Marjoliane spared differences:
Leliana: Marjolaine is not done with me. I know her. I'm not going to wait  for her to spring another attack on me. I should have done it in Denerim. I don't know what I was thinking. She is cunning, duplicitious...I do not believe she will leave me alone.  She was right. It will never be over for us, until one of us is dead. It won't be me.

I could continue along those dialogue trees, but nowhere does she talk about returning to the Chantry.

[Herr Uhl]

RagingCyclone wrote...

From the toolset with hardened Leliana:
Marjoliane killed:
Warden: What will you do when this is all over?
Leliana: I don't know...I think returning to Orlais would be the first order of business.  Marjolaine may be dead, but who knows what other events she set in motion in the years I was away. I deserve a fresh start, and I cannot have that if I am prusued by people from my past. They must be dealt with.
Warden: You mean killed?
Leliana: I was hoping a firm warning would suffice, but you never know. I may have to seek a more permanent solution.

Marjoliane spared differences:
Leliana: Marjolaine is not done with me. I know her. I'm not going to wait  for her to spring another attack on me. I should have done it in Denerim. I don't know what I was thinking. She is cunning, duplicitious...I do not believe she will leave me alone.  She was right. It will never be over for us, until one of us is dead. It won't be me.

I could continue along those dialogue trees, but nowhere does she talk about returning to the Chantry.

The divine she is serving under was a part of her past with Marjolaine.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 14 août 2011 - 03:38 .

[RagingCyclone]

Herr Uhl wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

From the toolset with hardened Leliana:
Marjoliane killed:
Warden: What will you do when this is all over?
Leliana: I don't know...I think returning to Orlais would be the first order of business.  Marjolaine may be dead, but who knows what other events she set in motion in the years I was away. I deserve a fresh start, and I cannot have that if I am prusued by people from my past. They must be dealt with.
Warden: You mean killed?
Leliana: I was hoping a firm warning would suffice, but you never know. I may have to seek a more permanent solution.

Marjoliane spared differences:
Leliana: Marjolaine is not done with me. I know her. I'm not going to wait  for her to spring another attack on me. I should have done it in Denerim. I don't know what I was thinking. She is cunning, duplicitious...I do not believe she will leave me alone.  She was right. It will never be over for us, until one of us is dead. It won't be me.

I could continue along those dialogue trees, but nowhere does she talk about returning to the Chantry.

The divine she is serving under was a part of her past with Marjolaine.

True, but play that DLC again. Dorothea was involved because the papers were hers to begin with.  She tells Leliana to think about what actions she takes when going after Marjolaine. Once that part is resolved, Leliana stays with the chantry, but Dorothea is not the whole history of the past between Leliana and Marjolaine. Are you forgetting Sketch? Are you saying that the quest in DA2 regarding those looking for Sketch was set up by Leliana and/or Dorothea? Then what does that make Dorothea? The Divine, or a replacement to Marjolaine? I don't buy either scenario.

[TEWR]

Herr Uhl wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

From the toolset with hardened Leliana:
Marjoliane killed:
Warden: What will you do when this is all over?
Leliana: I don't know...I think returning to Orlais would be the first order of business.  Marjolaine may be dead, but who knows what other events she set in motion in the years I was away. I deserve a fresh start, and I cannot have that if I am prusued by people from my past. They must be dealt with.
Warden: You mean killed?
Leliana: I was hoping a firm warning would suffice, but you never know. I may have to seek a more permanent solution.

Marjoliane spared differences:
Leliana: Marjolaine is not done with me. I know her. I'm not going to wait  for her to spring another attack on me. I should have done it in Denerim. I don't know what I was thinking. She is cunning, duplicitious...I do not believe she will leave me alone.  She was right. It will never be over for us, until one of us is dead. It won't be me.

I could continue along those dialogue trees, but nowhere does she talk about returning to the Chantry.

The divine she is serving under was a part of her past with Marjolaine.

IIRC, the endgame ceremony has the potential to have her say she'll be working for the Chantry.

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

IIRC, the endgame ceremony has the potential to have her say she'll be working for the Chantry.

If Leliana's personality isn't hardened, she'll help with the expedition to the Urn of Sacred Ashes. If her personality was hardened, she'll accept the Crown's task of investigating the darkspawn (which is what happened with my Surana Warden). There's a letter (if The Warden romanced her) in Awakening where she says she is going to meet a member of the Chantry, but the Epilogue for that expansion references The Warden leaving his order to spend his days with Leliana, since the two are spotted in Denerim.

[I Like Cats And]

Don't know if this has been brought up in the 9 pages already established, but.....

Maybe Leiliana is a spy for the Warden into the chantry for when he decides to side with the Chantry or mages in DA3.

[IanPolaris]

DG, you are suggesting that Lelianna is not anti-mage now? After the quotes and reasoning that Rif ande Lob have provided? After the clear "shift" in personality after DAO? I don't wish to be too insulting but this is sort of like the best friend caught in bed with the wife who says, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

I Like Cats And wrote...

Don't know if this has been brought up in the 9 pages already established, but.....

Maybe Leiliana is a spy for the Warden into the chantry for when he decides to side with the Chantry or mages in DA3.

Given the evidence (not just the DLC but also Leliaana's Song from the DAO DLC and the scenes in the epilog), I think it's far more likely that Lelianna was a spy for Dorthea (the Divine now) all along, and she was playing the warden for a fool.

-Polaris

[RagingCyclone]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

From the toolset with hardened Leliana:
Marjoliane killed:
Warden: What will you do when this is all over?
Leliana: I don't know...I think returning to Orlais would be the first order of business.  Marjolaine may be dead, but who knows what other events she set in motion in the years I was away. I deserve a fresh start, and I cannot have that if I am prusued by people from my past. They must be dealt with.
Warden: You mean killed?
Leliana: I was hoping a firm warning would suffice, but you never know. I may have to seek a more permanent solution.

Marjoliane spared differences:
Leliana: Marjolaine is not done with me. I know her. I'm not going to wait  for her to spring another attack on me. I should have done it in Denerim. I don't know what I was thinking. She is cunning, duplicitious...I do not believe she will leave me alone.  She was right. It will never be over for us, until one of us is dead. It won't be me.

I could continue along those dialogue trees, but nowhere does she talk about returning to the Chantry.

The divine she is serving under was a part of her past with Marjolaine.

IIRC, the endgame ceremony has the potential to have her say she'll be working for the Chantry.

Yes, in some scenarios she does, and there it does make sense to me. However, I then refer to my first post a few pages back as to why it was not handled like Wrex was in ME1 to ME2? Not all scenarios for Leliana have her going to the chantry but instead doing something else. In those cases there should have been an alternate character much like what was done for Wrex in ME2 if he was killed in ME1. So what is essentially happening is either handwaving and retconning for Leliana, or what the warden did with her in Origins means nothing. Again I go back to why is she there in the first place when not all scenarios for her would have her there?

[Wulfram]

Hardened Leliana is still both pious and grateful to the chantry. When someone she knows and has regard for becomes Divine, why wouldn't she agree to put her skills to work for them?