73 réponses à ce sujet

[Vyse_Fina]

havoc373 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Besides: Why only look at the bad stuff between thelines of these announcements. There may even be a Demo on XBL and PSN if there is a playbale demo on the showfloor =)

a downloadable demo for one of the most anticipated games of 2012 7 months before release... i seriously doupt it.
its makes no buisness sense to get the public hype machine going this early.

c'mon, positive thinking ;D

Modifié par Vyse_Fina, 14 août 2011 - 02:06 .

[crimzontearz]

ok then

I still dislike the marketing turn that was taken for the ME franchise, it is not going to change and I know I will still love it as ME is my favorite gaming series to date. I know it will not make the game any worse but it does irritate me that this route has to be taken to rally in people who have the attention span of a beagle in a milkbone factory that is ran by squirrels covered in chunky peanut butter and that the core aspects of the game and the RPG features (and the improvements made on them) are just sidelined in favor of "hey guys..this is the BEST place to start the trilogy....who cares about characters, decisions and relationships developed in the first two games? after after 8 years you'd have to be rain man to remember!"


-groans in psychological pain-

[Clonedzero]

ThePwener wrote...



That's the problem > it stopped being an RPG.

really? when did they get rid of the story you can effect? or dialogue with teammates? or roleplaying your character a number of different ways? or having your own customized character?

oh wait. they didnt.

its still an rpg, relax

[Il Divo]

Clonedzero wrote...

ThePwener wrote...



That's the problem > it stopped being an RPG.

really? when did they get rid of the story you can effect? or dialogue with teammates? or roleplaying your character a number of different ways? or having your own customized character?

oh wait. they didnt.

its still an rpg, relax

The real issue is: does anyone actually care what they call it? Anyone who's spent enough time to log into a forum is probably following Mass Effect 3's development. Genre labels (imo) are more useful when picking up games which I have no knowledge of.

[Someone With Mass]

Il Divo wrote...
The real issue is: does anyone actually care what they call it? Anyone who's spent enough time to log into a forum is probably following Mass Effect 3's development. Genre labels (imo) are more useful when picking up games which I have no knowledge of.

And since the developers have already etablished that they don't want to do the traditional RPG, I don't think it matters in any way, because anyone who's interested in games more than likely knows of Mass Effect and roughly what it's about.

[Iakus]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Il Divo wrote...
The real issue is: does anyone actually care what they call it? Anyone who's spent enough time to log into a forum is probably following Mass Effect 3's development. Genre labels (imo) are more useful when picking up games which I have no knowledge of.

And since the developers have already etablished that they don't want to do the traditional RPG, I don't think it matters in any way, because anyone who's interested in games more than likely knows of Mass Effect and roughly what it's about.

I have no problem with nontraditional rpgs as such.  But what bugs me is that "rpg" is now a dirty word for the ME universe (it's a "hybrid" or a "nontraditional rpg" or "has rpg mechanics") but "shooter" is not.  Shouldn't it be a "shooter hybrid" or something?

 I care about what it's called because that tells me what the developers think of it and who the game is aimed at.  If it's a "high octane space adventure" that tells me something.  If it's described as "epic space opera filled with old friends new enemies, diplomacy, politics, adventure and betrayal" that's another thing.

If all I'm seeing in demos is Commander Shepard shooting at husks, shooting at Cerberus agents, shooting at Reapers (no mercs so far, for that I'm thankful) that tells me something.  If I'm seeing a demonstration on how weapons and armor work with different mods, conversations and interrupts, that tells me something else.  If I'm seeing vehicles and exploration, that tells me something else again.

So far what we've seen is a whole lot of shooting and very little of anything else.  That tells me something.

Maybe Gamescom will be different, but somehow I doubt it.

Modifié par iakus, 14 août 2011 - 05:35 .

[Davie McG]

iakus wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Il Divo wrote...
The real issue is: does anyone actually care what they call it? Anyone who's spent enough time to log into a forum is probably following Mass Effect 3's development. Genre labels (imo) are more useful when picking up games which I have no knowledge of.

And since the developers have already etablished that they don't want to do the traditional RPG, I don't think it matters in any way, because anyone who's interested in games more than likely knows of Mass Effect and roughly what it's about.

I have no problem with nontraditional rpgs as such.  But what bugs me is that "rpg" is now a dirty word for the ME universe (it's a "hybrid" or a "nontraditional rpg" or "has rpg mechanics") but "shooter" is not.  Shouldn't it be a "shooter hybrid" or something?

 I care about what it's called because that tells me what the developers think of it and who the game is aimed at.  If it's a "high octane space adventure" that tells me something.  If it's described as "epic space opera filled with old friends new enemies, diplomacy, politics, adventure and betrayal" that's another thing.

If all I'm seeing in demos is Commander Shepard shooting at husks, shooting at Cerberus agents, shooting at Reapers (no mercs so far, for that I'm thankful) that tells me something.  If I'm seeing a demonstration on how weapons and armor work with different mods, conversations and interrupts, that tells me something else.  If I'm seeing vehicles and exploration, that tells me something else again.

So far what we've seen is a whole lot of shooting and very little of anything else.  That tells me something.

Maybe Gamescom will be different, but somehow I doubt it.

It tell's me they don't want to spoil the storyline a year before the game is released.

The only thing they can show that isn't a spoiler is combat, showing the dialouge wheel in every demo in regards to the story would result in rage from people who just got their game spoiled.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

I have no problem with nontraditional rpgs as such.  But what bugs me is that "rpg" is now a dirty word for the ME universe (it's a "hybrid" or a "nontraditional rpg" or "has rpg mechanics") but "shooter" is not.  Shouldn't it be a "shooter hybrid" or something?

 I care about what it's called because that tells me what the developers think of it and who the game is aimed at.  If it's a "high octane space adventure" that tells me something.  If it's described as "epic space opera filled with old friends new enemies, diplomacy, politics, adventure and betrayal" that's another thing.

If all I'm seeing in demos is Commander Shepard shooting at husks, shooting at Cerberus agents, shooting at Reapers (no mercs so far, for that I'm thankful) that tells me something.  If I'm seeing a demonstration on how weapons and armor work with different mods, conversations and interrupts, that tells me something else.  If I'm seeing vehicles and exploration, that tells me something else again.

So far what we've seen is a whole lot of shooting and very little of anything else.  That tells me something.

Keep in mind Iakus, that what you even call an RPG, while similar to my own, is different from other users. Ex: RPG just means stat-based combat, an idea which I don't agree with, so we already run into issues with what Bioware would mean by such a definition.

Genre labels only exist for classification, but consider that the RPG label is applied to games as diverse as Diablo, Final Fantasy, Fable, Elder Scrolls, and Planescape Torment. RPGs, for example, don't always feature exploration. What Bioware always seems intent on maintaining (over everything else) is dialogue, interactive narrative, meeting interesting characters, and the ability to make moral decisions. Since Neverwinter Nights, every Bioware game has included these elements.

Modifié par Il Divo, 14 août 2011 - 05:43 .

[RocketManSR2]

People, stop ruining Vertigo's topic with an idiotic RPG debate. Good grief.

[Jesse]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

People, stop ruining Vertigo's topic with an idiotic RPG debate. Good grief.

+1

[marshalleck]

iakus wrote...
Maybe Gamescom will be different, but somehow I doubt it.

You'll get to see the multiplayer! 

[Gatt9]

Clonedzero wrote...

ThePwener wrote...



That's the problem > it stopped being an RPG.

really? when did they get rid of the story you can effect? or dialogue with teammates? or roleplaying your character a number of different ways? or having your own customized character?

oh wait. they didnt.

its still an rpg, relax

I had a story I could affect in Wing Commander 3.  I had dialogue in countless games.  I couldn't Roleplay my character in ME2,  because there was no character,  one was never defined.  Customization was pointless because at level 2 you kill a YMIR and he's as bad as it gets,  there's no need for anything other than what you start with.

Having a story,  or talking to people,  isn't what constitutes an RPG.  Having a defined Character that can succeed or fail independent of you is what constitutes an RPG.

It's a sad day for gaming when having a story is considered a "Mechanic".

Genre labels only exist for classification, but consider that the RPG label is applied to games as diverse as Diablo, Final Fantasy, Fable, Elder Scrolls, and Planescape Torment. RPGs, for example, don't always feature exploration. What Bioware always seems intent on maintaining (over everything else) is dialogue, interactive narrative, meeting interesting characters, and the ability to make moral decisions. Since Neverwinter Nights, every Bioware game has included these elements.

Actually,  what Bioware seems intent on is making a Shooter,  because that's all they show,  and all they talk about.

As far as what they've included,  to be honest,  they're just dropping in the same elements every time,  to the point where their games and characters are pretty much just all rehashes of their last few games.  ME3's plot is ME2's plot,  and also DAO's plot.  The love interests are all pretty much interchangable,  down to having extremely similiar personalities.  You don't make moral decisions,  because no matter what you do,  everyone gets the same results.

Honestly,  as much as everyone lauds Bioware,  they're really extremely stagnant.  Even down to putting in cookie-cutter ultra-simple renditions of other genres such as they did with ME2.  Bioware hasn't done anything really impressive since KotOR,  and their one chance to make a difference,  the ME series,  where they could've had an expansive story and taken exploration to all new levels,  instead they made a weak clone of Gears of War.

So it's really no surprise they're not even calling it an RPG anymore,  they abandonded making RPG's a long time ago.

[Blacklash93]

Is it too much to hope for another trailer?

[Vertigo_1]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Is it too much to hope for another trailer?

Nah, I get the feeling they might release another one then.

[MrFob]

crimzontearz wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

"high octane deep space adventure"

joy...............it is not even marketed as an RPG anymore

>Still thinking Mass Effect is an RPG

I abandoned that ship longggg ago. Just enjoy it for what it is: A fantasy-action game. Note that I said fantasy because everything is explained with magic and not science.

we could settle for sci-fan

and there are RPG elements, let's hope Christina makes good on her initial promise

Oh look at that, That topic got derailed with ... uhm ... the second post (the first one being the OP) .
BTW: Christina is no longer with BW.

On topic: Looking forwar to gamescom info. Thanks Vertigo for the thread. I hope it gets back to what it was supposed to be once the fun starts in good ol' Germany.

[moneycashgeorge]

Gatt9 wrote...

I know it's a gameplay mechanic,  I also realize it's epicly idiotic in concept,  form,  and function.  Maybe before you rant next time you should take a moment to consider all of the things blantantly wrong with the system in question,  because otherwise you're going to look *really* foolish trying to explain why none of my team can figure out how to put a bullet in a chamber,  unless I magically teleport those bullets there from 30 yards away,  never mind the fact that they start magically exploding with no alterations to their design.  Mind you,  we're talking about some highly trained military types...who can't figure out how to put a round in a chamber?

There's a general rule of thumb with any form of entertainment,  don't take something everyone is familiar with and try to give it unbelievable properties without a explanation that is at least semi-plausible.  Teleporting bullets don't fit that.

You might also want to avoid talking about the health regeneration,  since from there we're going to have to discuss the industry's current trend towards making all games as simple as possible so no one has to face any challenges,  which ME2 illustrated in spades.

Using inventory as an example isn't a wise choice either.  Once again,  you have that because today's Industry easy-modes everything,  and doesn't implement limited pack space or encumbrance because too many people complain when you make it reasonable.

I'm sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I have ever had the misfortune to read. Complaining about "teleporting bullets"? Really? Thats not supposed to literally be a thing in the game-universe. Its just a game mechanic and a representation of the player's abilities. They don't have Shepard walk over to his allies and modify their guns because that would ruin the game. That's like complaining about the auto loot from ME1 because of "teleporting loot". Matter of fact, thats like complaining about the loot in any game ever because you dont actually see the character go through the enemy's pockets and actually pull out the items, making the items "teleporting".

I strongly suggest that you don't engage in arguments anymore, because you're only going to make yourself look like foolish. Not just about this, about anything. Clearly you can not see the obvious.

And for the record, Mass Effect (well, ME1 more than 2 or 3) does a very good job of being sci-fi and not fantasy. Almost everything in the setting can be logically explained using the principles of the the lone fantasy aspect, "the Mass Effect". Having one fantastic element and basing everything on that and science is a legitimate science fiction technique, used in many reputable books. The Mass Effect setting is very logical and well thought out (again, 1 more than 2 and 3), and is one of the only true science fiction settings in video games.

[kill_switch_423]

moneycashgeorge wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

I know it's a gameplay mechanic,  I also realize it's epicly idiotic in concept,  form,  and function.  Maybe before you rant next time you should take a moment to consider all of the things blantantly wrong with the system in question,  because otherwise you're going to look *really* foolish trying to explain why none of my team can figure out how to put a bullet in a chamber,  unless I magically teleport those bullets there from 30 yards away,  never mind the fact that they start magically exploding with no alterations to their design.  Mind you,  we're talking about some highly trained military types...who can't figure out how to put a round in a chamber?

There's a general rule of thumb with any form of entertainment,  don't take something everyone is familiar with and try to give it unbelievable properties without a explanation that is at least semi-plausible.  Teleporting bullets don't fit that.

You might also want to avoid talking about the health regeneration,  since from there we're going to have to discuss the industry's current trend towards making all games as simple as possible so no one has to face any challenges,  which ME2 illustrated in spades.

Using inventory as an example isn't a wise choice either.  Once again,  you have that because today's Industry easy-modes everything,  and doesn't implement limited pack space or encumbrance because too many people complain when you make it reasonable.

I'm sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I have ever had the misfortune to read. Complaining about "teleporting bullets"? Really? Thats not supposed to literally be a thing in the game-universe. Its just a game mechanic and a representation of the player's abilities. They don't have Shepard walk over to his allies and modify their guns because that would ruin the game. That's like complaining about the auto loot from ME1 because of "teleporting loot". Matter of fact, thats like complaining about the loot in any game ever because you dont actually see the character go through the enemy's pockets and actually pull out the items, making the items "teleporting".

I strongly suggest that you don't engage in arguments anymore, because you're only going to make yourself look like foolish. Not just about this, about anything. Clearly you can not see the obvious.

And for the record, Mass Effect (well, ME1 more than 2 or 3) does a very good job of being sci-fi and not fantasy. Almost everything in the setting can be logically explained using the principles of the the lone fantasy aspect, "the Mass Effect". Having one fantastic element and basing everything on that and science is a legitimate science fiction technique, used in many reputable books. The Mass Effect setting is very logical and well thought out (again, 1 more than 2 and 3), and is one of the only true science fiction settings in video games.

Wait... I've never had to reload for my squad.  I've commanded (y'know, being Commander Shepard) them to switch ammo types, or use one of their powers, which they seem perfectly competent at.  O_o

If you're going to argue against the game, don't use an argument about an element that doesn't even exist.  Thank you.

[Johnsen1972]

Gamescom is actually a few streets away from my home, so I dont need a ticket, but .... I still have to watch the livestream, because normal fans are NOT allowed to be on the pressconference on thuesday!!!

But I've been told that I can play the ME3 DEMO on Gamescom! Im excited!
Envy me! 

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 15 août 2011 - 08:25 .

[kill_switch_423]

^Consider yourself envied. Y I LIVE IN U.S.?

[Johnsen1972]

Well, I will report back with my first impressions. I gonna occupy a ME3 Demo computer for 8 hours, if thats possible ;-)

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 15 août 2011 - 08:33 .

[el master pr]

Gatt9 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

ThePwener wrote...



That's the problem > it stopped being an RPG.

really? when did they get rid of the story you can effect? or dialogue with teammates? or roleplaying your character a number of different ways? or having your own customized character?

oh wait. they didnt.

its still an rpg, relax

I had a story I could affect in Wing Commander 3.  I had dialogue in countless games.  I couldn't Roleplay my character in ME2,  because there was no character,  one was never defined.  Customization was pointless because at level 2 you kill a YMIR and he's as bad as it gets,  there's no need for anything other than what you start with.

Having a story,  or talking to people,  isn't what constitutes an RPG.  Having a defined Character that can succeed or fail independent of you is what constitutes an RPG.

It's a sad day for gaming when having a story is considered a "Mechanic".

Genre labels only exist for classification, but consider that the RPG label is applied to games as diverse as Diablo, Final Fantasy, Fable, Elder Scrolls, and Planescape Torment. RPGs, for example, don't always feature exploration. What Bioware always seems intent on maintaining (over everything else) is dialogue, interactive narrative, meeting interesting characters, and the ability to make moral decisions. Since Neverwinter Nights, every Bioware game has included these elements.

Actually,  what Bioware seems intent on is making a Shooter,  because that's all they show,  and all they talk about.

As far as what they've included,  to be honest,  they're just dropping in the same elements every time,  to the point where their games and characters are pretty much just all rehashes of their last few games.  ME3's plot is ME2's plot,  and also DAO's plot.  The love interests are all pretty much interchangable,  down to having extremely similiar personalities.  You don't make moral decisions,  because no matter what you do,  everyone gets the same results.

Honestly,  as much as everyone lauds Bioware,  they're really extremely stagnant.  Even down to putting in cookie-cutter ultra-simple renditions of other genres such as they did with ME2.  Bioware hasn't done anything really impressive since KotOR,  and their one chance to make a difference,  the ME series,  where they could've had an expansive story and taken exploration to all new levels,  instead they made a weak clone of Gears of War.

So it's really no surprise they're not even calling it an RPG anymore,  they abandonded making RPG's a long time ago.

OMG, dude. Really? You should take your time to read the effin' Codex. Everything is based on or a product of the discovery and study of mass effect physics! Kinetic barriers, mass accelerators, biotics, omni-tools, medi-gel, body armor, genetic engineering, and the list goes on. Are you sure you played any ME game? Seems to me you're just trolling.

On topic, I hope for a new trailer to be revealed. I'll be watching the stream tomorrow, hopefully!

[Il Divo]

Gatt9 wrote...

Actually,  what Bioware seems intent on is making a Shooter,  because that's all they show,  and all they talk about.

As far as what they've included,  to be honest,  they're just dropping in the same elements every time,  to the point where their games and characters are pretty much just all rehashes of their last few games.  ME3's plot is ME2's plot,  and also DAO's plot.  The love interests are all pretty much interchangable,  down to having extremely similiar personalities.  You don't make moral decisions,  because no matter what you do,  everyone gets the same results.

Honestly,  as much as everyone lauds Bioware,  they're really extremely stagnant.  Even down to putting in cookie-cutter ultra-simple renditions of other genres such as they did with ME2.  Bioware hasn't done anything really impressive since KotOR,  and their one chance to make a difference,  the ME series,  where they could've had an expansive story and taken exploration to all new levels,  instead they made a weak clone of Gears of War.

So it's really no surprise they're not even calling it an RPG anymore,  they abandonded making RPG's a long time ago.

Actually, I'd argue that everything since KotOR has been a vast improvement on previous Bioware games, such as Baldur's Gate 1 and Neverwinter Nights, both of which I consider Bioware's weakest titles. Yes, their games have become stagnant in terms of mission order and character dialogue, but I find that it's a simple instance of "It works, no need to fix it".  

Modifié par Il Divo, 15 août 2011 - 04:34 .

[Chris Priestly]

Please use the now stickied thread so everyone can read the feedback and news from Gamescom.


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