127 réponses à ce sujet

[C Barchuk]

Getting ready to run the OC followed by the 2 expansions. I'm wanting to run as assassin that's playable from the gound up. Would love some suggestions. Thanks guys.

[Shia Luck]

A bit more info might be necessary to get you what you want so here's two things to think about.

Firstly, assassin is a prestige class and so you cannot play it from lvl1. you will need to be lvl 6 at least before taking assassin. Easiest, and most obvious route to get there is to start as a rogue, but maybe you have another idea?

Secondly, the two expansions are not designed to carry on from NWN OC. The OC is a standalone game which will get you to lvl 17 or so. HotU continues on from SoU (where you start at lvl 1 again)  and will take you to mid 20s (and then there are community modules which can take you to lvl 40) soooo do you now want a lvl 17, lvl 27 or lvl 40 character?

The more info you give, the better the character we can suggest.

Have fun

Modifié par Shia Luck, 14 août 2011 - 11:09 .

[C Barchuk]

Hey Shia, thanks for the response. I totally forgot that SoU starts at level 1 again. Its been so long. I thought playing all 3 took you to 40. Anyways, ultimately I would like to end up at level 40. I definitely plan on playing the countless community modules out there once I finish HotU. I have looked through the original epic builds archive for some ideas as well though it was pretty hard to find at first. I definitely want a DEX-based dual wielder. Many of the examples I came across were STR-based, which maybe better, but just don't make alot of sense to me from a role playing perspective. I know the assassin prestige class isn't the most popular but I've always been a fan of it so I was hoping to find other closet-fans as well. I definitely want a strong character for sure that is built well. Some of the archived examples I came across were like Ass 25/SD 1/14 Fighter. While something like this ultimately is very powerful, it kind of sucks through the first part of the game cause your basically just leveling as a fighter. I dunno, maybe a build like that is the best way to go. My first thought is to go with rogue at first for maybe 13 levels, grab 1 of SD(I know...cheese) and the rest assassin. I guess I'm just worried my AB will be bad going that route. Anyways, I hope that adds some specifics. Thanks for any help you can give me.

[WebShaman]

Weeelll....I personally like Wiz/Rng/Ass...makes for a great build, lots of synergy going! MMM type of Wizard, with some dual-wielding (turn the FE into a spell focus feat), and some Assassination fun with Tumble, UMD drops...yep. Note that the Death Attack DC is Int based...as well as level based (in Assassin).

[Shia Luck]

Sin26/R13/SD1 is certainly an incredibly strong assassin, until you meet crit immune nasties. Epic dodge (and possibly 50% self concealment, but assassin gives you this 1/day with imp invis), not to mention HiPS, makes you very hard to kill as well. Doing damage against crit immune is the problem, which is why Ftr is a very useful third class. Epic weapon specialisation is very very useful for any dex build, so perhaps it is more a question of how much you want SD.

As you say, it'll be quite a bit of levelling as FTR and cross classing skills (and therefore a high INT score which will impact on your other starting stats) to make a sin/ftr/sd work. Personally I'd drop the SD for ftr, even if that means giving up on HiPS & Death attack synergy. Rogue gets you epic dodge which is worth its weight in gold and darkness from assassin and scrolls of it, or invisibilty wands/scrolls have much the same effect, tho I can't say how available they are in the OC & EXP.

The sands of fate series is made to continue on from HotU and will take you to 40-ish, and if you go this route then I would strongly reccommend not relying on DA/SA as your only damage. (hint hint)

As Web said, assasin does have a lot of synergy with wizard as INT helps the DA paralysis DC and assasin lvls help you to get more attacks per round. Personally I love my Shadow of Death for this. You'll want to take note of Kail's comments on this build and if the environment is to be SoU, HotU and SoF then the Spell penetration feats would be the option to choose over a second spell foci. I don;t know if 13 levels of assasin will be enough for you, but she does have many other ways of insta killing enemies.

The other thing that springs to mind is cleric/sin/sd. 10-12 levels of cleric with extend spell and strength domain will give you lots of divine power which will sort out AB issues and put your low STR to 18 for some extra damage. Trickery domain for invis spells is also going to be useful. 

Have fun

[C Barchuk]

Thanks for the all the help guys. Well maybe that going the Fighter(or Ranger)/SD/Assassin is the way to go. Sounds like there alot of sneak attack immune enemies which, I have to admit, kind of sucks. Honestly that ends making these type of builds pointless...ugh. Ok. I was really liking the idea of Sin26/R13/SD1 at first. I love having epic dodge as well as self-concealment. But this build would completely suck against anything immune to crit/sneaks etc...Maybe I should just go with a high level rogue build like R29/SD1/F10. That's another build I saw that gets all those rogue goodies plus EWF and EWS. I really want to go with 25 levels minimum in the main class whether its rogue or assassin. Question: does crippling strike still work against sneak attack immune enemies?

[WebShaman]

You know, Wizards never have problems with Crit Immune types...just sayin'.

What is the abbr. Sin for? Besides, of course, the obvious...

[Shia Luck]

WebShaman wrote...

You know, Wizards never have problems with Crit Immune types...just sayin'.

Hence casters are better than rogues, no? *grin*

WebShaman wrote...
What is the abbr. Sin for? Besides, of course, the obvious...

Sin or ass? I can't win *grin* :innocent:

[C Barchuk]

Yea I'm just not a huge fan of wizards. I realize they're very powerful but I just don't enjoy playing them as much. I think I'm going to go with some sort of rogue/fighter/sd with epic dodge and self concealment. Could someone help me with a build order? I always mess that part up.

[Shia Luck]

C Barchuk wrote...

Thanks for the all the help guys. Well maybe that going the Fighter(or Ranger)/SD/Assassin is the way to go. Sounds like there alot of sneak attack immune enemies which, I have to admit, kind of sucks. Honestly that ends making these type of builds pointless...ugh. Ok. I was really liking the idea of Sin26/R13/SD1 at first. I love having epic dodge as well as self-concealment. But this build would completely suck against anything immune to crit/sneaks etc...Maybe I should just go with a high level rogue build like R29/SD1/F10. That's another build I saw that gets all those rogue goodies plus EWF and EWS. I really want to go with 25 levels minimum in the main class whether its rogue or assassin. Question: does crippling strike still work against sneak attack immune enemies?

If you want to play assasin, play assasin. Yes rogue is probably better, but you are not going to play in some mad PG PW. Assasin is a great class to play. (And trust me, in modules such as SoF and HotU, the gear available does give you power vs crit immunes). The enemies just make you use skills/tactics more is all. 

Anyone can play a ftr/rog  or rang/rog on easy and think they are wonderful. The real joy imho is finding the character concept you like and making it work. (so really don't listen to the advice on how to play an assasin from someone who never plays an assasin because they clearly have no idea, no? If you ask for an assasin and they say play rogue then all it says is they cannot read or do not care about your wish, no?)

Have fun

[Kail Pendragon]

Not dual wielding but getting the same number of APR and more with FoB on plus deflect arrows from the offhand. The ranged option is pretty viable too. Last but not least, it is an halfling of doom!


DEATH FROM BELOW - FIGHTER(10), MONK(3), ASSASSIN(27)
Halfling, Lawful Evil



ABILITIES(ending)
STR: 10
DEX: 18 (36)
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 16
CHA: 8



BASIC STATS
Hitpoints: 406
Skillpoints: 281

Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 25/19/37
Saving Throw bonuses: Mind Effects: +2, Traps: +2, Poison: +6, Fear: +2

BAB: 27
AB: 45 (melee), 43 (ranged), 44 (ranged within 15 feet)
APR: 6 (melee), 4 (ranged), +1 melee/ranged with FoB/RS

AC (naked): 34, 35 vs current target/last attacker, +4 vs AoOs

Death Attack: +14d6
Death Attack DC: 40



SKILLS
Craft Trap 17(20), Disable Trap 43(48), Hide 43(56), Move Silently 41(56), Open Lock 12(25), Search 19(22), Set Trap 30(45), Tumble 40(53), UMD 36(35)



LEVELING GUIDE
Halfling: (Fearless, Good Aim, Lucky, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Move Silently, Small Stature)
01: Monk(1): Luck of Heroes, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}
02: Fighter(1): Weapon Finesse
03: Fighter(2): Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Kama
04: Monk(2): DEX+1, {Deflect Arrows}, (DEX=19)
05: Fighter(3)
06: Monk(3): Rapid Shot
07: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Kama
08: Assassin(1): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
09: Assassin(2): Blind Fight, {Uncanny Dodge I}
10: Assassin(3)
11: Assassin(4)
12: Assassin(5): DEX+1, Dodge, (DEX=21)
13: Assassin(6)
14: Fighter(5)
15: Fighter(6): Mobility, Knockdown
16: Fighter(7): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
17: Assassin(7)
18: Assassin(8): Toughness
19: Fighter(8): Improved Knockdown
20: Fighter(9): DEX+1, (DEX=23)
21: Fighter(10): Epic Weapon Focus: Kama, Epic Weapon Specialization: Kama
22: Assassin(9)
23: Assassin(10)
24: Assassin(11): DEX+1, Epic Prowess, (DEX=24)
25: Assassin(12)
26: Assassin(13)
27: Assassin(14): Armor Skin, Great Dexterity I, (DEX=25)
28: Assassin(15): DEX+1, (DEX=26)
29: Assassin(16)
30: Assassin(17): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=27)
31: Assassin(18): Great Dexterity III, (DEX=28)
32: Assassin(19): DEX+1, (DEX=29)
33: Assassin(20): Great Dexterity IV, (DEX=30)
34: Assassin(21)
35: Assassin(22): Great Dexterity V, (DEX=31)
36: Assassin(23): DEX+1, Great Dexterity VI, (DEX=33)
37: Assassin(24)
38: Assassin(25)
39: Assassin(26): Great Dexterity VII, Great Dexterity VIII, (DEX=35)
40: Assassin(27): DEX+1, (DEX=36)

[C Barchuk]

Thanks again everyone for the feedback. Yep, I definitely want a dex build and Low, I agree, if I'm going the dex route I definitely want epic dodge.

http://home.comcast....uild237511.html

This build you linked Low is the one I dig the most. The only issue with it is it isn't a dual wielder. So I would need to figure out how to swap in those feats. Otherwise the build is exactly what I'm looking for. I need to pick up TWF, Ambidexterity, and ITWF. What levels do you think I should insert those at?

[C Barchuk]

What about a level distribution like this:

Halfling: (Fearless, Good Aim, Lucky, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Move Silently, Small Stature)
01: Rogue(1): Ambidexterity
02: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
03: Fighter(1): Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
04: Fighter(2): DEX+1, Weapon Focus: Dagger, (DEX=20)
05: Fighter(3)
06: Fighter(4): Knockdown, Weapon Specialization: Dagger
07: Rogue(3): {Uncanny Dodge I}
08: Fighter(5): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
09: Fighter(6): Blind Fight, Improved Knockdown
10: Rogue(4)
11: Rogue(5)
12: Rogue(6): DEX+1, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, (DEX=22)
13: Rogue(7)
14: Rogue(8)
15: Rogue(9): Dodge
16: Rogue(10): DEX+1, Improved Evasion, (DEX=23)
17: Rogue(11)
18: Rogue(12): Mobility
19: Rogue(13): Defensive Roll
20: Rogue(14): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
21: Fighter(7): Epic Weapon Focus: Dagger
22: Shadowdancer(1): {Hide in Plain Sight}
23: Fighter(8): Epic Weapon Specialization: Dagger
24: Fighter(9): DEX+1, Great Dexterity I, (DEX=26)
25: Fighter(10): Epic Prowess
26: Rogue(15)
27: Rogue(16): Great Dexterity II, Epic Dodge, (DEX=27)
28: Rogue(17): DEX+1, (DEX=28)
29: Rogue(18)
30: Rogue(19): Great Dexterity III, Crippling Strike, (DEX=29)
31: Rogue(20)
32: Rogue(21): DEX+1, (DEX=30)
33: Rogue(22): Self Concealment I
34: Rogue(23)
35: Rogue(24): Self Concealment II
36: Rogue(25): DEX+1, Self Concealment III, (DEX=31)
37: Rogue(26)
38: Rogue(27)
39: Rogue(28): Self Concealment IV, Self Concealment V
40: Rogue(29): DEX+1, (DEX=32)

This was suggested to me. Is there any area for improvement here?

[C Barchuk]

Man, thanks again. Does it matter what level I take that 7th and 8th level of fighter at? Heck I guess I could just take them at level 10 and 11 just to get them out of the way. What do ya think?

[Shia Luck]

Do note that if you have a high tumble score (which you will) mobility is not an especially needed feat,  (you will not need mobility playing SoU/ hotU etc... it is only really in PvP when a dex build needs to be concerned about it). Toughness is also pretty useless when your character specialises in not getting hit in the first place. 40 hp at lvl 40 can be done by a Mass Effect space Hamster or a Dragon Age squirrel at lvl 40. but only if they can hit you.

The advantage of having a ftr lvl that gives a feat in epic levels is the increased choice of actually useful feats and contray to what Lowlander says, moving ftr 8 to pre epic does not give you an extra feat unless you sacrifice a rogue level and therefore sacrifice sneak attack damage. Do remember that when attacking from stealth your AB is effectively increased massively because the enemy is flat footed and you get AB bonus when flanking, so AB is not the be all and end all of this type of build. A loss of 1 AB to get a useful feat instead of a fairly useless feat is not such a bad tradeoff for a sneaking dex rogue.

IMHO what you should be looking at is how to start on DEX 20 so as to get epic dodge and SCV earlier, but you'll need to post the starting stats before we can consider that. With any rogue /assasin build the skill points are very important too so no way to say how effective or versatile this could be without knowing that.

have fun

EDIT:  I am still advocating the lack of need for SD, and supporting Assassin in the environment you will play in. I am well aware of the need for mobility as a class requisite for SD

Modifié par Shia Luck, 15 août 2011 - 01:19 .

[Shia Luck]

Lowlander wrote...

I would trade 1d6 sneak damage for +1AB and 40 more hit points.

As we proved in the prestige class thread ... is always good to mention what you lose and not just focus on the positives. , especially when giving advice.

[Kail Pendragon]

Lowlander wrote...

Above build doesn't have epic dodge requested

Oh man, you figured that out ? I'm amazed! From what exactly? Maybe from the fact there's no Epic Dodge written down? Or from the lack of classes able to fill up the prereqs? Besides it was expressed as a possible wish in a further post down the thread so...

and  EXP penalty from level 14 onward. Some don't mind, but I hate that...

And since you are not the OP, who cares?

But again most are likely strength builds. Simple reason is that if you are going to have an Epic Dex build, not having Epic Dodge, seems like a huge waste and Assassin won't give you that.

And so one will keep limiting himself unnecessarily instead of enjoying the many different builds that can be played.

And to the OP, SC is overrated. If you play somewhere where Impr Invisibility is easily available you ar ebetter off with the consumables than with the feats. High prerequisites, late acquisition (which in turn means you'll have to rely on consumables until you max it out) and BF squaring it (which means anything below SCIV is of little to almost no use) don't make it an optimum choice in a typical mid magic environment.

[Kail Pendragon]

Lowlander wrote...

That looks really good to me. My change would take fighter to level 8 before 20.

That would be +1 BAB and one more feat. I would move Mobiltiy to the fighter feat and take Toughness as the Level 18 general feat. That would give +40 HP by the end.

And lose one epic feat (EP) so that you get -1 AB. No AB increase therefore, just to be clear.

Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 15 août 2011 - 01:49 .

[Kail Pendragon]

Lowlander wrote...

My tweaks.... Basically I pulled back fighter to level 9 pre-epic to get toughness, +1 AB. I sacrificed one Epic fighter feat: Epic Prowess which is is +1 AB. So basically a win on Toughness for free.

I also stop fighter on odd level pre-epic, so I can take EWS immediately take EWS on level 21. Benefit is EWS (+6 damage) as soon as possible.

Disadvantage is-1 Ref save compared to FTR 6/Rogue 14 and -1 Fort save compared to FTR 8/Rogue 12. -1 Fort is not worth earlier EWS IMO.

I didn't go to 20 Dex so I could keep Con at 14.

And neither the suggested build did.

You get potential of 402 HP max.
368 skill points, which I did not distribute, But this is a LOT.

It's much lesss than you think. Just barely enough to get the main things, but another 50+ points could still easily be spent.