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[Huntress]

Gervaise wrote...

a very long fuse?

A spell... isn't he a mage? Only none magic people uses fuses..

When he hits the ground with the staff thats when the spell take it curse.

I don't feel any guilt for siding with Mages at the end:
1) The building was not meant as a museum, hospital/clinic/free food market, it was a religion building who do not feel pity nor remorse of what mages are suffering, the head of that building was warned to leave or die, she got her trip to the maker.

2) My hawke won't kill prisioners to satisfie this nut case named meredith,
Hawke: Killing blood mages because they are rising demons, bring it on!
Hawke:killing mages inside their cell? And Innocent of what ( spoilers) have done? sorry can't do! not a chance, ceya in hell Meredith.

I only read about one mage who married he was the one who had Shale ( origens) An explanation for that was given but it was so long ago.. can't remeber how he was able to, he had to do or be somebody to get pass the rules. He even had a son.

Modifié par Huntress, 15 août 2011 - 01:28 .

[dragonflight288]

He fought in the war with Orlais and earned commendations for his bravery and skill, and was allowed to live in Honneleath and get married even as he did research for the Circle there.

[Plaintiff]

Gervaise wrote...

Actually the melodramatics is what I might expect from the Anders I knew in Awakening. He was very effusive and enthusiastic about things and always just a little bit OTT. So happy carefree, devil may care Anders has now just become a bit of a drama queen. Just for the matter of interest - do you actually find the idea of someone drowning you in a river of blood just to keep you safe romantic? I mean I get the sentiment but the way of expressing it - I would battle the whole host of ithe darkspawn, take on the archdemon single handedly, storm the gates of hell - those sorts of things - but rivers of blood, I'm not so sure. But then again apparently you have no objection to the bomb so.........

Well I don't think he would or could really do it, he doesn't know any blood magic anyway. XD

In a general sense, yes, I do consider it romantic. It is a bit specific, I suppose, but it fits with the culture and his specific background. Anders has quite strong principles when it comes to blood magic, saying that he would abandon them to protect you is, in context, pretty much the grandest statement he can possibly make abut his devotion to you.

[Sepewrath]

Mages having real relationships in the tower doesn't seem like a wise decision, they already have someone who has total control over them; last thing you need is to give them more ammo. But then on the other side of that equation, I could see why Templar's wouldn't want them having relationships, love can make people do stupid things i.e. Jowan.

Even more important though, what kind of relationship could you have in a prison, what you sit together at the mandated lunch? Push your bunks together at night? You cant have a family or anything like that, so ultimately, its rather pointless to look for anything other than sex as a Circle mage.

[Quething]

Sepewrath wrote...

Mages having real relationships in the tower doesn't seem like a wise decision, they already have someone who has total control over them; last thing you need is to give them more ammo. But then on the other side of that equation, I could see why Templar's wouldn't want them having relationships, love can make people do stupid things i.e. Jowan.

Even more important though, what kind of relationship could you have in a prison, what you sit together at the mandated lunch? Push your bunks together at night? You cant have a family or anything like that, so ultimately, its rather pointless to look for anything other than sex as a Circle mage.

You might as well say it's pointless to look for freedom. People obviously still do, and that's a hell of a lot more forbidden than love.

I do think Anders is talking out his ass quite a bit there. His perspective on the Ferelden Circle is anything but unbiased. Sketchy things will happen anywhere that one group has power over another -- I'm sure there is rape and abuse in the Ferelden Circle, and I'm sure it's not punished as often as it's reported or reported as often as it happens. That's the nature of rape and abuse. And the Harrowing is just... unacceptable. But Jowan seems quite happy there (he's running away so he can be with Lily, the only objection to the Circle he ever lodges is the fraternization rule that keeps them apart). Wynne seems quite happy there, and tries to get mage!Warden and... whatshisface, her student, to join back up. Finn seems quite happy there, and explicitly considers Anders a nutcase for wanting to leave. Niall considers it a home he'd die to protect. That one pervy Senior Enchanter has nothing but fond memories of his life in there. Surana and Amell have the opportunity to hate the Circle or think of it as home, and both are valid and supported by the plot. Warden!Mage is also clearly on basically friendly terms with Cullen, and Greagoir and Irving are basically Carver and Hawke, so there isn't some vast uncrossable divide of inequality and control there, templars and mages can be good friends. Life in the Ferelden Circle strikes me as comparable to life in the Derenim Alienage -- restrictive and sometimes dangerous, but hardly Kirkwall. The idea that friendships, love and happiness don't happen there is ludicrous.

It's a good thing for Anders' revolt that he ended up in Kirkwall. I can't imagine any Circle that could better encourage him to believe he has the right to tear down the system without any other mage's consent. Do we ever meet one Kirkwall mage who doesn't loathe every moment of their existence? Solivitus maybe, but he's still got exactly endorsing the place. The only people with anything good to say about it are templars and Tranquil. Well, and Bethany, but she's got a vested interest in not saying anything that will get Hawke killed trying to singlehandedly drag her out of there.

Modifié par Quething, 15 août 2011 - 06:06 .

[Gervaise]

Anders talks about breaking rules.  If it is merely his own rule not to fall in love, then what are the other rules he enjoys breaking?    If his personal rule is as a result of the way mages are treated, to avoid being hurt,  then, yes, it is still a two fingered gestured to the Chantry.   Could this be why he is also prepared to entertain a romance with a blood mage, despite his own objections to the practise?  That it is a double forbidden love? 

Mind you I do note that Justice would appear to have certain rules Anders is meant to follow.  Apart from romantic distractions being disapproved of, he mentions that he is not allowed to get drunk now - whether it is that he is not allowed to drink that much or that Justice prevents it from affecting him is not clear - he still drops into the Hanged Man and gets put on Varric's tab. Since alcohol would not appear to be permitted in the Circle - dangers attached to getting drunk possibly -  this would appear to be a divergence between what Anders wants as a free mage and Justice permits.   

I do not believe the real Anders would approve of bombing the Chantry with people inside - as it is night the children and lay people will be in bed asleep rather than in the communal area but since the whole building goes up, they do die or get horribly maimed.  (There are children in the Chantry, there are children in the Gallows - we know this but thankfully the designers don't give us images/sounds of screaming children dying).   He admits there are no limits to what he would do to further the cause of mage freedom - which in itself is rule that he follows. 

He also denied his alleged love the freedom of choice because he is afraid they will stop him or want to join him and yet I gather will actually have the nerve to say "if you love me, you'll do this for me", if they refuse some part of the Justice plan.  So he expects blind devotion - not the care and concern of someone who truly loves and wants to save their love from himself. (Ditto friend incidentally - except as friend you don't get the ultimatum).  You can still believe in mage freedom and not think the bomb is a good idea.  Discussing plans can often result in a better plan.  As for being afraid they would want to join in - well you get sucked in anyway - it's not as if it is not common knowledge you hang out together (even if they don't know you live together).  I think the concept of guilt by association does apply in Kirkwall.

Just as he claims to have warped Justice, so Justice has warped him.  It would seem that in Justice, Anders has exchanged one set of rules  and  Code of Conduct for another - both causes and systems of belief have some highly questionable ideas and acts attatched to them.

[Plaintiff]

Gervaise wrote...

Anders talks about breaking rules.  If it is merely his own rule not to fall in love, then what are the other rules he enjoys breaking?    If his personal rule is as a result of the way mages are treated, to avoid being hurt,  then, yes, it is still a two fingered gestured to the Chantry.   Could this be why he is also prepared to entertain a romance with a blood mage, despite his own objections to the practise?  That it is a double forbidden love? 

Mind you I do note that Justice would appear to have certain rules Anders is meant to follow.  Apart from romantic distractions being disapproved of, he mentions that he is not allowed to get drunk now - whether it is that he is not allowed to drink that much or that Justice prevents it from affecting him is not clear - he still drops into the Hanged Man and gets put on Varric's tab. Since alcohol would not appear to be permitted in the Circle - dangers attached to getting drunk possibly -  this would appear to be a divergence between what Anders wants as a free mage and Justice permits.   

I do not believe the real Anders would approve of bombing the Chantry with people inside - as it is night the children and lay people will be in bed asleep rather than in the communal area but since the whole building goes up, they do die or get horribly maimed.  (There are children in the Chantry, there are children in the Gallows - we know this but thankfully the designers don't give us images/sounds of screaming children dying).   He admits there are no limits to what he would do to further the cause of mage freedom - which in itself is rule that he follows. 

He also denied his alleged love the freedom of choice because he is afraid they will stop him or want to join him and yet I gather will actually have the nerve to say "if you love me, you'll do this for me", if they refuse some part of the Justice plan.  So he expects blind devotion - not the care and concern of someone who truly loves and wants to save their love from himself. (Ditto friend incidentally - except as friend you don't get the ultimatum).  You can still believe in mage freedom and not think the bomb is a good idea.  Discussing plans can often result in a better plan.  As for being afraid they would want to join in - well you get sucked in anyway - it's not as if it is not common knowledge you hang out together (even if they don't know you live together).  I think the concept of guilt by association does apply in Kirkwall.

Just as he claims to have warped Justice, so Justice has warped him.  It would seem that in Justice, Anders has exchanged one set of rules  and  Code of Conduct for another - both causes and systems of belief have some highly questionable ideas and acts attatched to them.

How do we know that there are children in the chantry? We know there are children in the Circle because it's established from Origins that they get taken there when their powers show up, we never see any children in any Chantry except under fairly specialised circumstances, like when they're holed up in Redcliffe because of zombie attack.

I saw nothing in DA2 or Origins to suggest they were in the habit of harbouring children as a matter of course. If that were the case, why are there orphans wandering around Darktown? Sebastian and Elthina claim the Chantry does all sorts of good work, but you can tell just from walking around Kirkwall that nobody has received any such help.

[Sons of Horus]

Gervaise wrote...

Mind you I do note that Justice would appear to have certain rules Anders is meant to follow.  Apart from romantic distractions being disapproved of, he mentions that he is not allowed to get drunk now - whether it is that he is not allowed to drink that much or that Justice prevents it from affecting him is not clear - he still drops into the Hanged Man and gets put on Varric's tab. Since alcohol would not appear to be permitted in the Circle - dangers attached to getting drunk possibly -  this would appear to be a divergence between what Anders wants as a free mage and Justice permits.   

Alcohol is permitted in the Circle of Ferelden as Wynne explains to the drunk Oghren . "The Tranquil mages of the Circle just happen to be alchemical miracle-workers, and they brew more than just potions. There was always a pitcher or two of fine ale at our supper table."