150 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

With regards to the proof that Saren believes in Reapers, the Council never disputed Shepard's report on the facts. They disputed weather or not Saren was telling the truth.

The Ilos/vigil thing is pretty silly, though.

Either it's all a plot hole, or we're dealing with Citadel Indoctrination.

[Clonedzero]

SandTrout wrote...

With regards to the proof that Saren believes in Reapers, the Council never disputed Shepard's report on the facts. They disputed weather or not Saren was telling the truth.

The Ilos/vigil thing is pretty silly, though.

Either it's all a plot hole, or we're dealing with Citadel Indoctrination.

yeah, saren can't fake VIs that'd be crazy.

[Clonedzero]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

SirKillsalot wrote...

You people really think that in the future it won't be possible to completely fake such a recording? The council would have no reason to trust the footage.

Funny, they defintely believed Tali's recording of Lady Benezia and Saren in ME1.  *blows your theory out of the sky*

saren admitting he commited a terrorist attack and implicating another person is alot different than "hey look theres evil space unicorns that are gonna kill us all"

if i found two videos. one of a person talking about how they commited a crime. thats easy evidence.
if i present a video of someone talking about evil crab people living at the bottom of the ocean. people would need more proof than that to believe theres evil crab people.

[SandTrout]

Clonedzero wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

With regards to the proof that Saren believes in Reapers, the Council never disputed Shepard's report on the facts. They disputed weather or not Saren was telling the truth.

The Ilos/vigil thing is pretty silly, though.

Either it's all a plot hole, or we're dealing with Citadel Indoctrination.

yeah, saren can't fake VIs that'd be crazy.

Except that VI is where you got the citadel override program from. Saren might fake Vigil, but he wouldn't sabotage his own opperation. Also, if it was put there by Saren, why not just keep Shepard captured by the barrier curtain until the Reapers arive?

Of course, you could go with the Vigil was lying scenario....

[Someone With Mass]

Didn't that squee*random numbers* guy already cover this on YouTube?

[TMA LIVE]

We already know they have helmet cams and suit recordings based on what Ash says. Which I guess squee didn't know about.

[S.A.K]

A helmet cam will really f*ck up the story line. So I am fine like this.

[TMA LIVE]

Here's the line. And don't forget about the recording we got at the beginning of the game, showing Sovereign in the attack.

[Someone With Mass]

TMA LIVE wrote...

We already know they have helmet cams and suit recordings based on what Ash says. Which I guess squee didn't know about.

I think he said something along the lines that it still wouldn't be enough proof.
---
By the way, it's one thing to prove one man's guilt and another thing to prove the existence of an ancient machine race that's systematically wiping out all advanced life in the galaxy every fifty thousand years.

I think you need a little more than a crappy camera recording for the Council to start acting on that.

[Clonedzero]

jollyorigins wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

jollyorigins wrote...

Because they have suit recordings, as stated by Ashley in ME1, but then again no one on the team seems to realise they can use those audio files to prove the Reapers are real.

"look at this recording, the reapers are real, i was talking to one!"
"shepard. thats a VI hologram. my kid has one just like it for his video game. this proves nothing"

Yet the council fully believes Shepard about Saren once they hear Tali's magically appearing audio file of Saren and Benezia talking?

i already went over this.

proving theres magical giant death robots coming to kill all intelligent life requires more proof than a recording of someone talking about it.

proving someones involved in a terrorist attack can be proved by them talking about it.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Il Divo]

Someone With Mass wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

We already know they have helmet cams and suit recordings based on what Ash says. Which I guess squee didn't know about.

I think he said something along the lines that it still wouldn't be enough proof.
---
By the way, it's one thing to prove one man's guilt and another thing to prove the existence of an ancient machine race that's systematically wiping out all advanced life in the galaxy every fifty thousand years.

I think you need a little more than a crappy camera recording for the Council to start acting on that.

True enough, particularly when you're also trying to convince them that said machines (somehow) have the foresight to manipulate our technological development to the point where our entire existence is essentially in illusion. It's really the final nail in the coffin regarding believability.

[TMA LIVE]

Someone With Mass wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

We already know they have helmet cams and suit recordings based on what Ash says. Which I guess squee didn't know about.

I think he said something along the lines that it still wouldn't be enough proof.
---
By the way, it's one thing to prove one man's guilt and another thing to prove the existence of an ancient machine race that's systematically wiping out all advanced life in the galaxy every fifty thousand years.

I think you need a little more than a crappy camera recording for the Council to start acting on that.

Yeah, but you have both a recording and witnesses, and one of them being the Hero of the Citedal, and the one who could have saved the Council.

Only for them to say, "Well, we didn't talk to the VI face to face, so sucks to be you".

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 05:00 .

[S.A.K]

Btw Shepard don't even need a cam to get the proof. If he try youtube he'll find more than enough proof. That place is loaded with that sh*t.

[TMA LIVE]

Also, why wouldn't they believe it after going to Ilos themselves, seeing a prothean bunker filled with dead Protheans, and a back door to the Citedal. Plus a recording telling them the story?

If you didn't believe it, you'd have to assume Shepard, the Hero of the Citadel and savior of the Council, is lying to you. Or that Saren literally told Shepard how to stop him, and gave him data in order to do it.

[WillieStyle]

I think we all know by now that the reason the Council and the Alliance don't believe Shepherd is so that Bioware can keep the player at the center of the action. If the powers that be were to take the existential threat to the Galaxy seriously, Shepherd would become just one soldier amidst a massive operation.

The rational thing for the council to believe after the attck on the Citadel is that Soveriegn was a ancient Prothean battleship that Saren and the Geth somehow found and repaired. In which case, a sane Council would launch a massive search for any further "Reaper" battleships before the Geth or Battarians found them first.

But again, that would leave Shepherd as just one extremely talented soldier in a huge army. Instead of assaulting the Collector base with one ship and 10+ squad mates, yours would be one platoon in a ten thousand man invasion. It'd be hard to make the player feel like he or she were at the center of the action.

[Someone With Mass]

Il Divo wrote...

True enough, particularly when you're also trying to convince them that said machines (somehow) have the foresight to manipulate our technological development to the point where our entire existence is essentially in illusion. It's really the final nail in the coffin regarding believability.

It's one step away from calling in the straitjackets.

[Il Divo]

jollyorigins wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

jollyorigins wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

jollyorigins wrote...

Because they have suit recordings, as stated by Ashley in ME1, but then again no one on the team seems to realise they can use those audio files to prove the Reapers are real.

"look at this recording, the reapers are real, i was talking to one!"
"shepard. thats a VI hologram. my kid has one just like it for his video game. this proves nothing"

Yet the council fully believes Shepard about Saren once they hear Tali's magically appearing audio file of Saren and Benezia talking?

i already went over this.

proving theres magical giant death robots coming to kill all intelligent life requires more proof than a recording of someone talking about it.

proving someones involved in a terrorist attack can be proved by them talking about it.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

Shepard directly talks to Sovereign on Virmire, if they had suit recordings of both Sovereign's conversation and of Saren's talk to Shepard before the end of Virmire, wouldn't that be a lot of proof to the existance of the Reapers?

Virmire probably wouldn't do it, primarily due to the improbability of an actual Reaper appearing out of thin air to explain to the protagonist (for no particular reason) why he is worthless and the exact means by which he will die. Which is exactly what Sovereign does. Sovereign could simply be a VI interface designed by Saren to deceive Shepard.

On the other hand, I do think Ilos with Vigil's recording would be a bit more difficult to shrug off, even if Vigil were to shut down. The nature of the facility makes it much less likely that Saren would bother to plant another piece of deception for Shepard, during the culmination of his master plan.  

[TMA LIVE]

I'm just assuming the Council members are being manipulated by the Reapers somehow using devices to make them think a certain way.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

It's already absurdly easy to fake videos thanks to video editing software. Imagine how much easier it will be in the future? Having video and audio doesn't mean that much. Having hard evidence is another thing entirely.

[Someone With Mass]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Yeah, but you have both a recording and witnesses, and one of them being the Hero of the Citedal, and the one who could have saved the Council.

Only for them to say, "Well, we didn't talk to the VI face to face, so sucks to be you".

Still, we're talking about a threat that would be on the levels of massing all their fleets, upping the production rate of weapons, ships and the recruiting of soldiers and sending out dozens or hundreds of scouting parties to verify all the facts, just because one man had a bad dream and blames it on a non-functioning VI and its race's beacons, which nobody fully understands yet.

You'd need something that's a little more solid than a camera recording.

[_Somebody]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It's already absurdly easy to fake videos thanks to video editing software. Imagine how much easier it will be in the future? Having video and audio doesn't mean that much. Having hard evidence is another thing entirely.

Then we set it up to a live feed. Link it straight to the council or the Alliance or whatever.

Modifié par Somebody, 14 août 2011 - 05:12 .

[Clonedzero]

jollyorigins wrote...

Shepard directly talks to Sovereign on Virmire, if they had suit recordings of both Sovereign's conversation and of Saren's talk to Shepard before the end of Virmire, wouldn't that be a lot of proof to the existance of the Reapers?

"so shepard, your proof giant robot spaceships that want to kill all intelligent life for no apparent reason is a VI talking to you that saren could have easily left to distract you?"

[Clonedzero]

Somebody wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It's already absurdly easy to fake videos thanks to video editing software. Imagine how much easier it will be in the future? Having video and audio doesn't mean that much. Having hard evidence is another thing entirely.

Then we set it up to a live feed. Link it straight to the council.

you cant do that.