150 réponses à ce sujet

[TMA LIVE]

Il Divo wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Like pieces of Sovereign that suggests it isn't Reaper creation, and is unlike the Geth. Yet, they want to assume it's of Geth creation, despite it being more advanced then them.

What do you compare it to in order to prove that it's a Reaper? "Advanced tech" really doesn't cut it. The Council acknowledges that Sovereign is clearly an advanced space ship. But how does this prove that he's a sentient space ship, and that more are coming through the Citadel?

You can compare it to any Geth ship we shoot down in Council Space. Which apparently we've been doing. And you'd realize how stupid it would be for one ship to be lightyears more advanced them the rest of the ships. You could at least consider that Sovereign wasn't Geth.

Which doesn't prove Reapers in any way, shape, or form. All it means is that we have advanced technology to explore. Should the Council be investigating into its source? Certainly, but it's not clear where the Reaper theory enters the picture.

It proves one ship can't possibly be Geth, and you have lots of recordings from multiple people telling you otherwise.

Again, is Shepard fabricating evidence? Because that's the conclusion you'd have to go on if you didn't believe.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 05:37 .

[TMA LIVE]

Again, why wouldn't they believe it after going to Ilos, and seeing a prothean bunker filled with dead Protheans, and a back door to the Citedal. Plus a recording telling them the story?

Plus, recording of Sovereign, and his conversation. Same with Saren. And same with Benezia.

Plus pieces of Sovereign compared to the rest of the Geth Fleet.

If you didn't believe it, you'd have to assume Shepard, the Hero of the Citadel and savior of the Council, is lying to you. That he fabricated this evidence. Or that Saren literally told Shepard how to stop him, and gave him data in order to do it when it came to Vigil, all while telling him a bull**** story.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 05:46 .

[Il Divo]

TMA LIVE wrote...

It proves one ship can't possibly be Geth, and you have lots of recordings from multiple people telling you otherwise.

Recordings ultimately mean nothing, beyond what the plot decides they mean. We have a recording of Sovereign, which we have ample reason to question. And the Council believes that Saren is purposely misleading Shepard, which makes everything he says suspect.

Again, is Shepard fabricating evidence? Because that's the conclusion you'd have to go on if you didn't believe.

No it isn't. Saren deceived Shepard works just as well.

[Praetor Knight]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Again, why wouldn't they believe it after going to Ilos, and seeing a prothean bunker filled with dead Protheans, and a back door to the Citedal. Plus a recording telling them the story?

Plus, recording of Sovereign, and his conversation. Same with Saren. And same with Benezia.

Plus pieces of Sovereign compared to the rest of the Geth Fleet.

If you didn't believe it, you'd have to assume Shepard, the Hero of the Citadel and savior of the Council, is lying to you. Or that Saren literally told Shepard how to stop him, and gave him data in order to do it when it came to Vigil.

Well, from the meeting on the Citadel in ME2, it sounds as if they sent people to investigate Ilos and could not find supporting evidence or get Vigil to work.

So they decided to fill in the blanks with the wrong info as a result. And assume that Shepard might not be right in the head.

[TMA LIVE]

Recordings me nothing? It didn't when it came to Saren being a traitor. Same with a video recording of Vigil? Again, you'd have to believe it's fabricated by Shepard in order not to believe it. After all, the recording came from somewhere.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 05:45 .

[TMA LIVE]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Again, why wouldn't they believe it after going to Ilos, and seeing a prothean bunker filled with dead Protheans, and a back door to the Citedal. Plus a recording telling them the story?

Plus, recording of Sovereign, and his conversation. Same with Saren. And same with Benezia.

Plus pieces of Sovereign compared to the rest of the Geth Fleet.

If you didn't believe it, you'd have to assume Shepard, the Hero of the Citadel and savior of the Council, is lying to you. Or that Saren literally told Shepard how to stop him, and gave him data in order to do it when it came to Vigil.

Well, from the meeting on the Citadel in ME2, it sounds as if they sent people to investigate Ilos and could not find supporting evidence or get Vigil to work.

So they decided to fill in the blanks with the wrong info as a result. And assume that Shepard might not be right in the head.

Which makes me believe Bioware forgot that Shepard could have already recorded everything. Since that's never mentioned.

[Sgt Stryker]

In ME1, a helmet cam recording would only be useful after Ilos, at which point Saren and Sovereign were already attacking the Citadel. No time to file reports to your superiors.

In ME2, Shepard is working with Cerberus and cannot be trusted by the Council.

/thread

[Davie McG]

Il Divo wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

It proves one ship can't possibly be Geth, and you have lots of recordings from multiple people telling you otherwise.

Recordings ultimately mean nothing, beyond what the plot decides they mean. We have a recording of Sovereign, which we have ample reason to question. And the Council believes that Saren is purposely misleading Shepard, which makes everything he says suspect.

Again, is Shepard fabricating evidence? Because that's the conclusion you'd have to go on if you didn't believe.

No it isn't. Saren deceived Shepard works just as well.

Not to mention at the end of the first Mass Effect the council seems to accept the fact that Sovereign was a reaper. Joker tells you at the start of the second game that the council are trying to cover up everything reaper related.

[TMA LIVE]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

In ME1, a helmet cam recording would only be useful after Ilos, at which point Saren and Sovereign were already attacking the Citadel. No time to file reports to your superiors.

/thread

He could have gave the recordings after the attack in a report, since the Normandy was destroyed a month after the attack.

[Il Divo]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Recordings me nothing? It didn't when it came to Saren being a traitor. Same with a video recording of Vigil? Again, you'd have to believe it's fabricated by Shepard in order not to believe it. After all, the recording came from somewhere.

And I'd argue that was a plothole from the start, given the level of technology available in the Mass Effect universe. You also have to consider in that instance Saren chose to flee, validating his guilt. And (once more), you have to consider that convincing someone that their agent is a traitor does not require as large a leap of faith as convincing someone that a race of millienia-old machines have systematically purged the galaxy of all life every 50k years. And that they are coming to do so again, using a relay hidden in the Citadel.

There, Vigil is the one element that (from a plot perspective) is problematic, given that the Council has access to Ilos. However, that still demands investigation and is not indisputable in proving that Reapers are coming.

[TMA LIVE]

Il Divo wrote...

No it isn't. Saren deceived Shepard works just as well.

Deceiving him by telling him how to stop him, and even giving him a program to do it? All on tape?

Bull****.

[Il Divo]

Davie McG wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

It proves one ship can't possibly be Geth, and you have lots of recordings from multiple people telling you otherwise.

Recordings ultimately mean nothing, beyond what the plot decides they mean. We have a recording of Sovereign, which we have ample reason to question. And the Council believes that Saren is purposely misleading Shepard, which makes everything he says suspect.

Again, is Shepard fabricating evidence? Because that's the conclusion you'd have to go on if you didn't believe.

No it isn't. Saren deceived Shepard works just as well.

Not to mention at the end of the first Mass Effect the council seems to accept the fact that Sovereign was a reaper. Joker tells you at the start of the second game that the council are trying to cover up everything reaper related.

True enough. By ME2, Shepard has been gone two years and returns working for a terrorist group. At this point, whatever investigation into Reapers he presented has been buried. At this point, I doubt they'd be enthusiastic of opening that can of worms again.

[TMA LIVE]

How about a recording of Saren literally blowing his own brains out after pretty much winning the battle? Is that his finally way of deceiving everyone? And then turning into some weird cyborg?

[Il Divo]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Deceiving him by telling him how to stop him, and even giving him a program to do it? All on tape?

Bull****.

Was that conversation on tape? I do recall Ashley mentioning that they had suit recordings of the Virmire conversation, but little else.

Even so, I did mention that Ilos itself was problematic plot-wise.

[Xeranx]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

I still laugh at how the Council could just believe that the recording was real about Saren just by listening to it.

I reason it as the Asari Councilor knows that the other voice belongs to Matriarch Benezia and that the party on Eden Prime never met nor heard about her so they could create her voice in the recording.

[Il Divo]

TMA LIVE wrote...

How about a recording of Saren literally blowing his own brains out after pretty much winning the battle? Is that his finally way of deceiving everyone? And then turning into some weird cyborg?

Again, do we have a recording of that?

[Meshaber]

The council believing the recording of Saren's voice *might* not be as silly as it sounds. Tali got it from a geth, maybe their audio recording uses completely different file formats or something, might be incredibly hard to fake.

[Someone With Mass]

TMA LIVE wrote...

You wouldn't make one advanced ship that's lightyears ahead, yet leave the rest of the fleet behind in time. Especially when you have the turians already equiping stuff like Sov's canon.

It's not that hard to reverse-engineer a cannon if the original is relatively intact. It doesn't really prove anything either. It just shows that Sovereign had some powerful weapons.

[TMA LIVE]

Il Divo wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

How about a recording of Saren literally blowing his own brains out after pretty much winning the battle? Is that his finally way of deceiving everyone? And then turning into some weird cyborg?

Again, do we have a recording of that?

If it's possibly we did, I'd like a real reason why we didn't, since Ash claims we could have.

Even so, it was in the Council Chambers. I imagine it's filled with security cameras.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 05:59 .

[TMA LIVE]

Someone With Mass wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

You wouldn't make one advanced ship that's lightyears ahead, yet leave the rest of the fleet behind in time. Especially when you have the turians already equiping stuff like Sov's canon.

It's not that hard to reverse-engineer a cannon if the original is relatively intact. It doesn't really prove anything either. It just shows that Sovereign had some powerful weapons.

So again, why wouldn't the rest of the fleet have weapons as advanced if they made it, and can be bought and equiped on something like the Normandy? Why make one super ship, and completely different from the rest of the Geth in design, while everything else is way behind?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 05:59 .

[Il Divo]

Meshaber wrote...

The council believing the recording of Saren's voice *might* not be as silly as it sounds. Tali got it from a geth, maybe their audio recording uses completely different file formats or something, might be incredibly hard to fake.

True, but it's not something really explored or elaborated on. And given the level that technology has reached by Mass Effect's time, it seems like a very forced method of turning Shepard into a Spectre. I mean, we've achieved FTL travel, can make people float with our minds, etc,but a voice recording can't be duplicated?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TMA LIVE wrote...
So again, why wouldn't the rest of the fleet have a weapons as advanced if they made it, and can be bought and equiped on something like the Normandy?

Didn't the Cerberus team manage to deduce the dead Reaper's age? If so, why couldn't the council do the same with Sovereign.

[Meshaber]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

How about a recording of Saren literally blowing his own brains out after pretty much winning the battle? Is that his finally way of deceiving everyone? And then turning into some weird cyborg?

Again, do we have a recording of that?

If it's possibly we did, I'd like a really reason why we didn't, since Ash claims we could have.

Even so, it was in the Council Chambers. I imagine it's filled with security cameras.

The council chamber wasn't in the best of conditions.

Besides, the council took Shepards word for what Vigil had said, they didn't start sweeping the reapers under the rug until Shepard was already dead. By which time Shepard was already, eh, dead.

[Il Divo]

Lizardviking wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
So again, why wouldn't the rest of the fleet have a weapons as advanced if they made it, and can be bought and equiped on something like the Normandy?

Didn't the Cerberus team manage to deduce the dead Reaper's age? If so, why couldn't the council do the same with Sovereign.

If I recall, they deduced that from the planet/super weapon, not from the Reaper itself.

[Someone With Mass]

Il Divo wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
So again, why wouldn't the rest of the fleet have a weapons as advanced if they made it, and can be bought and equiped on something like the Normandy?

Didn't the Cerberus team manage to deduce the dead Reaper's age? If so, why couldn't the council do the same with Sovereign.

If I recall, they deduced that from the planet/super weapon, not from the Reaper itself.

And it would just tell them how old the material Sovereign is made out of is. Doesn't really tell them anything about its origin.