150 réponses à ce sujet

[TMA LIVE]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
So again, why wouldn't the rest of the fleet have a weapons as advanced if they made it, and can be bought and equiped on something like the Normandy?

Didn't the Cerberus team manage to deduce the dead Reaper's age? If so, why couldn't the council do the same with Sovereign.

If I recall, they deduced that from the planet/super weapon, not from the Reaper itself.

And it would just tell them how old the material Sovereign is made out of is. Doesn't really tell them anything about its origin.

If we can tell how old a pyramid is, then how old the material is when it came from it's source wouldn't be a factor. If we can tell from a scan and study that a pyranid was built in this time, then how old the material is when it came from the planet shouldn't mess with figuring that out. Then again, I ain't no expert.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 06:08 .

[TMA LIVE]

Here's something from Cerberus News:

“Historians and astronomers alike are abuzz tonight over a new paper published by Dr. Amanda Kenson of the University of Arcturus. Her team claims that by testing the dust trapped in the gravity wells around a mass relay, and comparing its composition to that of dust clouds in the same system, scientists can create a timeline of when the relay passed through the dust. Her conclusion? "Only a small fraction of the mass effect relays date back 50,000 years," she writes, "The majority are far older, indicating they were created by a species predating even the Protheans." Dr. Aurana T'Meles of the University of Serrice met the information with skepticism: "While Dr. Kenson's methods appear sound, the asari tried a similar procedure centuries ago and discounted it. What civilization could have spanned the galaxy for not thousands, but millions of years? If this were the case, we should have found mountains of evidence of their passing. Where is this species now?"”

If a study can tell us how old a Relay is, and conclude that one is far older then the other, then how old the planet that contained the material shouldn't be a factor.

A study would say Sovereign was a ship that has been running for millions of years, despite the Geth only being around for 300.

[Sgt Stryker]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

In ME1, a helmet cam recording would only be useful after Ilos, at which point Saren and Sovereign were already attacking the Citadel. No time to file reports to your superiors.

/thread

He could have gave the recordings after the attack in a report, since the Normandy was destroyed a month after the attack.

It's likely he did, immediately after the Battle of the Citadel. At the least, the asari councilor acknowledges the existence of the Reapers at the very end of ME1. However, that all changed after the ambush over Alchera and two years of cover-up.

EDIT: Regarding the age of mass relays: Just because the dust cloud dating method worked on mass relays, doesn't mean it would work on Sovereign's wreckage. The entry says Dr. Kenson analyzed the dust that accumulated around the gravity well of a mass relay. Even if this dust accumulation could happen with Sovereign (big if), I doubt you could get anything useful out of analyzing a wreckage that's been blasted with hundreds of mass accelerator rounds and strewn across the Citadel.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 14 août 2011 - 06:23 .

[TMA LIVE]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

In ME1, a helmet cam recording would only be useful after Ilos, at which point Saren and Sovereign were already attacking the Citadel. No time to file reports to your superiors.

/thread

He could have gave the recordings after the attack in a report, since the Normandy was destroyed a month after the attack.

It's likely he did, immediately after the Battle of the Citadel. At the least, the asari councilor acknowledges the existence of the Reapers at the very end of ME1. However, that all changed after the ambush over Alchera and two years of cover-up.

Which is why I believe two things could be happening.

Either the Reapers can manipulate the Council somehow, and convince them not to believe the Reapers, not investigate AI, not advance beyond a certain point, and not go to war unless it affects the entire galaxy, using devices within the Citadel.

Or They're aware of the possibility of the Reapers, and don't want to say anything to Shepard because he's working for Cerberus. And behind the Alliance's back, they're studying pieces of Sov so they can have an advantage over the Alliance. (After all, I don't think they want to rely on humanity protecting them forever, and want some power over them again.)

And the Alliance is doing the exact same thing.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 06:33 .

[TMA LIVE]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

In ME1, a helmet cam recording would only be useful after Ilos, at which point Saren and Sovereign were already attacking the Citadel. No time to file reports to your superiors.

/thread

He could have gave the recordings after the attack in a report, since the Normandy was destroyed a month after the attack.

It's likely he did, immediately after the Battle of the Citadel. At the least, the asari councilor acknowledges the existence of the Reapers at the very end of ME1. However, that all changed after the ambush over Alchera and two years of cover-up.

EDIT: Regarding the age of mass relays: Just because the dust cloud dating method worked on mass relays, doesn't mean it would work on Sovereign's wreckage. The entry says Dr. Kenson analyzed the dust that accumulated around the gravity well of a mass relay. Even if this dust accumulation could happen with Sovereign (big if), I doubt you could get anything useful out of analyzing a wreckage that's been blasted with hundreds of mass accelerator rounds and strewn across the Citadel.

You could still get something like a fuel sample. Or how old parts have been in use. Rust. When parts were welded on. There's all kinds of things you can study that could point to Sov being older then 300.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 06:32 .

[Savber100]

Would a camera really change anything?

The Council had a f*cking reaper flying into their faces and they still deny them. As for Vigil, I would suspect that Vigil was communicating telepathically and as a result any suit recordings would just show Shepard talking aloud to himself in front of a glowing light. It's my theory anyways seeing how the Protheans were highly advanced creatures and I doubt they would necessarily talk by making noises by their mouths. I assumed that they devolved and were reshaped later to the chirping Collectors in ME2 which might explain the changes later. 

Modifié par Savber100, 14 août 2011 - 06:33 .

[TMA LIVE]

Actually, since the Reapers are made out of flesh and goo, then you couldn't use the "old material from an old planet" theory. Because the material itself would be too alien. And completely not the same as the material used for the Geth.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 06:31 .

[Izhalezan]

Savber100 wrote...

Would a camera really change anything?

The Council had a f*cking reaper flying into their faces and they still deny them. As for Vigil, I would suspect that Vigil was communicating telepathically and as a result any suit recordings would just show Shepard talking aloud to himself in front of a glowing light. It's my theory anyways seeing how the Protheans were highly advanced creatures and I doubt they would necessarily talk by making noises by their mouths. I assumed that they devolved and were reshaped later to the chirping Collectors in ME2 which might explain the changes later. 

Vigil taught itself english and talked to the whole squad, how would a VI speak telepathically?

[Annihilator27]

The Turian Councilor would just dismiss it and say its edited footage.

[Sgt Stryker]

I dunno, probably the same way Prothean beacons communicate telepathically.

TMA: I like your idea of the Council knowing of the Reapers, but not admitting it to Shepard. Has anyone also considered the possibility that they're publicly denying everything to prevent a galaxy-wide panic?

[TMA LIVE]

Anyways, we can always shoot video, and as Ash says, do have suit recordings. It just a matter of knowing if Shepard and his crew even bothered to record anything, and present it. And if not, why?

[TMA LIVE]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

I dunno, probably the same way Prothean beacons communicate telepathically.

TMA: I like your idea of the Council knowing of the Reapers, but not admitting it to Shepard. Has anyone also considered the possibility that they're publicly denying everything to prevent a galaxy-wide panic?

Yes, that too. But when it comes to Shepard, it's definitely because he's Cerberus. But then you have Anderson being clueless about it, and being told to stop investigating. Which means even an Admiral or a Councilor is being told the Reapers don't exist. And by the Alliance. And TIM oddly believes the Alliance has no plans to do anything, nor want to believe it (as he tells himself in the books).

Which is why I can only conclude either A) They do know, and trying to study behind everyone's back. And even going so far as to not keep their own Councilor in the loop. Or They don't believe because something specifically is making them think that way.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 août 2011 - 06:55 .

[Pockles]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

I dunno, probably the same way Prothean beacons communicate telepathically.

TMA: I like your idea of the Council knowing of the Reapers, but not admitting it to Shepard. Has anyone also considered the possibility that they're publicly denying everything to prevent a galaxy-wide panic?

That's what I assumed they would do after ME1, but they don't seem to be making any preparations for the Reaper's arrival. The most I've noticed is the Turians bulding a few more dreadnaughts and "bolstering their crew complement". If the Council actually believe that the Reapers are going to attack, wouldn't they be funneling every available resource into a massive war effort, using the false threat of an imminent Geth invasion as an excuse?

[Paula Deen]

ShadowSplicer wrote...

I simply cover up the plot-hole with some made up fan fluff: When he talks to Sovereign, the technology in the room is sort of taken over by the Reaper (I mean look what he did to the lighting)! I'd like to imagine that a sort of technology/communications blackout appears whenever in the direct attention or proximity of a Reaper.

Even assuming that crackpot theory is correct, that doesn't explain why Shepard's conversation with Vigil or Saren SHOOTING HIMSELF IN THE HEAD AFTER A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE REAPERS, or SAREN'S CORPSE BEING REANIMATED BY SOVEREIGN.

[JayhartRIC]

I think they are denying the Reapers to avoid inciting a riot.

[Shotokanguy]

It's not a plot hole. If we knew there was no reason for him to not do it, then it would be.

For now, we should just assume that recorded video isn't proof enough.

[Killjoy Cutter]

The people in fiction are often far more stupid as a whole than the people in real life.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 14 août 2011 - 08:40 .

[Paula Deen]

JayhartRIC wrote...

I think they are denying the Reapers to avoid inciting a riot.

Denying the Reapers in both discrete actions and private meetings indicates otherwise.

[robarcool]

Swordfish56 wrote...

Even with a suit feed, I think the Council would have dismissed his evidence as total fabrication. That's how it fits with the plot I suppose.

This is the reason a camera won't help!

[cactusberry]

It was 'shopped.

[RAF1940]

This thread is

[Sgt Stryker]

Paula Deen wrote...

ShadowSplicer wrote...

I simply cover up the plot-hole with some made up fan fluff: When he talks to Sovereign, the technology in the room is sort of taken over by the Reaper (I mean look what he did to the lighting)! I'd like to imagine that a sort of technology/communications blackout appears whenever in the direct attention or proximity of a Reaper.

Even assuming that crackpot theory is correct, that doesn't explain why Shepard's conversation with Vigil or Saren SHOOTING HIMSELF IN THE HEAD AFTER A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE REAPERS, or SAREN'S CORPSE BEING REANIMATED BY SOVEREIGN.

You don't need a crackpot fan theory to cover up a nonexistent plot hole. Let's make the following assumptions:
1) Shepard has a video-audio recording system in his hardsuit.
2) That device was recording information during the conversation on Virmire with the Sovereign hologram
3) That video footage was sent to the Council as part of Shepard's after action report upon completion of the Virmire operation

Upon watching a POV version of this video, I bet the turian councilor would have reacted something like this:
"A VI hologram with a booming voice hardly proves the existence of ancient sentient warships. Saren is a master manipulator; he could have easily programmed this message himself to throw Shepard off. I dismiss his claims" etc. etc.

As for the events on Ilos and the Battle of the Citadel, there was no time to submit an official report to the council, for reasons that I have established in previous posts here. The best time for Shepard to do so would have been immediately after the battle. Since the Council (if they survived) did acknowledge the Reapers at the end, it is reasonable to assume that Shepard did exactly that. Fast forward two years later, and the Council (like politicians tend to do) did a flip-flop on their policy regarding the Reapers.

[Darkelefantos1]

Or he didn't cause he couldn't. Because he got the vision from the beacon, fell into coma, and all we are playing is his weird dream.

Most stupid plot twist ever.


Edit: Then he wakes up, after like 2 days of coma, and ME3 ends with the discussion between Anderson and Shepard about what happened on Eden Prime. Then, BW releases a new trilogy with the events that really happen, which are strikingly similar to the dream.

Modifié par Darkelefantos1, 14 août 2011 - 10:07 .

[LTiberious]

There's no amazon in the future?

[InkognitoY]

Memmahkth wrote...

Well, Saren was clearly out of his mind. Even if Shepard had video logs of his conversation with Saren, that's not proof of the existence of the Reapers. His words could be interpreted as his mental state collapsing, or the proof of some new geth weapon.

Then why does the council believe the audio recording of Saren?

Kasumi proves that you can easily fake an audio recording during her loyalty mission, so my question is why would the Council believe the audio recording, but not video evidence of Shepards doings?

I also think Shepard was the only one to understand the VI on Ilos. If he were to record it, it'd probably just show him conversing with some static spouting some nonsensical language.

I guess it depends how you interpret it. I personally am of the opinion that when he said, "I have monitered your transmissions/communications and translated my output into a format your will understand," he was actually speaking out loud. Audio. 

The conversation with Sovereign however.. would go a long way to help his case.

Indeed it would. 


And for those of you saying that video evidence wouldn't change anything, why the heck not? If the conversation with Soveriegn, Saren, Matriach Benezia, Vigil is not enough evidence to support the idea that Reapers exist, Then please, justify how Shepard and his crew can believe in the Reapers, when a video camera would show exactly what Shepard and his crew have seen? 

The >only< thing that a camera would not show would be Shepard's visions from the prothean beacons. But then again, nobody else on his team besides Liara has seen them either.