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[kill_switch_423]

Let's not forget that there were two pieces of evidence pointing to Saren's connection to Eden Prime.

The first was the dock worker's testimony. This evidence was not considered enough on it's own for a conviction, but was not completely thrown out.

The second was Tali's recording. If it was fabricated, how did anyone involved (remember, no Asari team members at this time) know how to mimic Benezia's voice? And why would they, if they only intended to implicate Saren? Furthermore, why mention the Reapers or the Conduit in a fabricated recording? Would have been much simpler to imply Saren attacked Eden Prime due to his hatred for Humanity.

As has been stated before, proving a living, sentient person who has a past history of being accused of hating humanity attacked a colony on the borders of the Attican Traverse/Citadel Space is a lot less difficult than convincing someone that Robot Chthulu's army is back to wipe out all existence.

Let's move one, now, to the recordings with Saren, Sovereign, Vigil, and the Battle of the Citadel.

It is known that the Council believes Saren is manipulating Shepard, so anything he says is null. The same for Sovereign, as a VI is not difficult to set up (we assume) to further manipulate Shepard.

Vigil is the first real point of contention. It is possible that the Council believes this evidence is fabricated, which DOES NOT necessarily contradict them accepting Tali's recording for Saren's conviction. Consider this: You hear an audio clip of someone admitting they murdered someone who the accused was already known to hate. Not too hard to believe this as a possibility. Now, someone shows you a video of Bigfoot saying he has an army of Yeti waiting to take over the world. Just because you found the audio clip credible does not mean you have to believe every video you see, ever.

The Battle of the Citadel, then. Surely the hardsuit and security footage would be evidence enough! Well, sorry. If you think about it, they could record Saren commiting suicide. You want us to assume he did this because of the Reapers and indoctrination. Why would anyone jump to that? Saren was backed into a corner, he knew he was caught. It's much more believable that Saren simply decided to **** with Shepard's head more then kill himself rather than be murdered or captured.

But his body comes back to life! There's no way that they could dispute that! Wrong again. It is, again, much more reasonable to assume that Saren's tech upgrades were advanced Geth technology. After all, they've been in hiding for 300 years and no one knows anything about what they've been up to until now. It's reasonable to assume that the Geth upgraded Saren with AI technology, which is astonishingly similar to the design of their own "Stalker" models as a failsafe, than to approve the existence of the Reapers.

Saren's wreckage? Well, I can buy into that snag a bit more. Except there is really nothing to suggest that the ship was not simply an advanced Geth flagship. "But why would they only build one?" Well, obviously they didn't have enough resources to make more than one and the Council assumed that the Geth thought that the one ship would be sufficient.

As far as studying for the age of Sovereign's creation and digging deeper into Ilos? Well, the Council didn't put that much effort into studying that particular aspect of Sovereign's wreckage because they had no reason to believe it was necessary, as they didn't believe any of the previous evidence towards Reaper existence. They didn't feel it necessary.

The Council is also very cautious about going to Ilos more than necesarry because the Mu Relay is in Terminus Space. Every time they send even a small probe through space to the Relay, they are risking war with the Terminus. Avoiding confrontation with the Terminus Systems is a higher priority to them than searching for evidence of some bat**** crazy myth. They did go once, to find Vigil, and found an abandoned planet with some bodies degraded by about 50,000 years of rot. Again, the Reapers are still not the first logical explanation. There may not have even been enough left of the bodies to prove they were Prothean in the first place. We just don't know. With Vigil deactivated, further suspicion now rested on Shepard because it's awfully convenient that a possibly fabricated VI (by Shepard, in their eyes, not Saren) mysteriously shuts down right when they have a chance to speak with it.

The Conduit's existence does not prove Reaper existence, either. So, it was a one way relay to the Citadel from Ilos. Must have been a handy shortcut that the Protheans built, as far as they believe. It is also easy to assume that these relays are no longer active anyway, and the Citadel Groundskeeper in Mass Effect two even refers to it as the Conduit rather than as the Relay Monument.

It is very easy to not believe something if you really don't want to, and the Council clearly doesn't want to.

[CrazyCatDude]

Of course, there is also one other, simple reason to prepare for a Reaper invasion even if you believe that Sovereign is Geth built Dreadnaught and not a millions of years old mecha-chtulhu.

If the Geth can build 1 Sovereign class Dreadnaught, what's to stop them from building a hundred, or a thousand?

[marshalleck]

The PLC wrote...

You're right. Giant plot hole right there.

It's more 'fridge logic' than plot hole

[Lotion Soronarr]

Clonedzero wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


..but this hologram of Saren talking proves EVERYTHING!

again. proving involvement in an attack. fairly straight forward and simple.

proving space unicorns want to kill everyone. gonna need alot more evidence than that.

If recordings can be easily faked and can't be told apart from real ones, then how could ANY recording be proof of anything...EVER?

There does come a point where you have to draw a line somewhere. How does the judicial system even work if everything can be faked?

[Lotion Soronarr]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Again, why wouldn't they believe it after going to Ilos, and seeing a prothean bunker filled with dead Protheans, and a back door to the Citedal. Plus a recording telling them the story?

Plus, recording of Sovereign, and his conversation. Same with Saren. And same with Benezia.

Plus pieces of Sovereign compared to the rest of the Geth Fleet.

If you didn't believe it, you'd have to assume Shepard, the Hero of the Citadel and savior of the Council, is lying to you. That he fabricated this evidence. Or that Saren literally told Shepard how to stop him, and gave him data in order to do it when it came to Vigil, all while telling him a bull**** story.

QFT.
The evidence just keeps piling up and the Council just keeps dismissing it. But people in power have to hold the Idiot Ball for Shep to save the universe.

[Someone With Mass]

Again, I really doubt that the Council would start preparing for a full scale war because of one man's camera feed, so it doesn't really matter if it's fake or not.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Il Divo wrote...

Again, is Shepard fabricating evidence? Because that's the conclusion you'd have to go on if you didn't believe.

No it isn't. Saren deceived Shepard works just as well.

Then Saren would have to be an idiot if he goes for such an incredible story...that really has no purpose.
Think about it for a second - what would Saren hope to schive with all of that? And the attack on the Citadel? Why? IT doesn't make any sense at all.

[Slayer_22]

"I don't for time for this technology! Charge!"

But yes, a helmet cam would have been a good investment, if he had known that he was going to meet with everything he did.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Again, I really doubt that the Council would start preparing for a full scale war because of one man's camera feed, so it doesn't really matter if it's fake or not.

Sovereign and a Geth fleet are not a cammera recording.

The heart of civilization was a ttacked by a force, lead by a warship of immense size and power. Adn what do hte citadel races do after that? Nothing.
You'd think they'd all go Defcon 1 and attack the Geth in a pre-emptive strike. But no, they sti merrily on their ases and wait for the "geth" to vcome back with an even bigger fleet.

[Someone With Mass]

They defeated the geth quite thoroughly both during and after ME1 in case you didn't notice. They rooted out pockets of geth resistance and everything. They started to salvage what's left of Sovereign and the geth ships, cleaning up the wards and so on. That's not "doing nothing".

[mcsupersport]

What I don't understand is now people actually think in ME2 that the council doesn't believe in Reapers? And what I also don't understand is why people think they would discuss anything of such Galaxy shaking significance with a possible rogue agent working with a terrorist organization.

The Council knows but will never admit it to prevent panic.

[kill_switch_423]

I guess my post got filed under "tl;dr". >_>;

[Skullheart]

doesnt the kestrel helmet has a lot f microcamaras or something like theat?

[Ramus Quaritch]

I'm surprised that it wasn't mentioned, but the Council wouldn't listen to you no matter what you say. They'd say that you staged it or that Saren/a VI set that up to trick you. You can even bring a frakkin geth to the Council to say that Sovereign was a Reaper and the Council won't believe you. It would be nice if it was mentioned more, as most soldiers have cameras on them somewhere, but I don't think it would change the Council's mind.

[xX N7 Xx]

 Bad sh#t always happens to people that wear helmet cameras. Just type in "Helmet Camera" on YouTube. Yeah it's funny but it's also dangerous. 

[Il Divo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Then Saren would have to be an idiot if he goes for such an incredible story...that really has no purpose.
Think about it for a second - what would Saren hope to schive with all of that? And the attack on the Citadel? Why? IT doesn't make any sense at all.

I don't think it makes any less sense than at the start of Mass Effect. At that point, the Council still had no idea what Saren was after, but still believed he posed a threat. He's an organic turian. Perhaps he wants to usurp the Council. Maybe he doesn't like the Citadel. Maybe he wants to commit genocide on humanity and take the Council as a hostage. If he is faking the Reaper story, he would not magically explain to Shepard what his true motivations are.

Modifié par Il Divo, 15 août 2011 - 04:56 .

[Izhalezan]

mcsupersport wrote...

What I don't understand is now people actually think in ME2 that the council doesn't believe in Reapers? And what I also don't understand is why people think they would discuss anything of such Galaxy shaking significance with a possible rogue agent working with a terrorist organization.

The Council knows but will never admit it to prevent panic.

How can you belive it yet also deny to the face of the person who exposed it?

[Sgt Stryker]

Because the person who exposed it violently died two years ago, and now out of the blue, he comes back and announces that he's working for a human supremacist organization that regularly performs acts of terrorism to achieve its means.

[Mysten]

Shepard knows what happened to Pvt. Jenkins. The guy with the helmet camera always dies and leaves it behind to be found.

[IndelibleJester]

Foster115 wrote...

Shepard uses up all the space on his camera for his youtube videos "OMG OMG Turian falls down stairs!" And "Lol! I Hid Tali's Helmet!"

www.youtube.com/watch

Shepherd watches this mid-reaper fights while shotgunning, punching, and charging everything to death. Mine does, anyway.

[zweistein_J]

the idea of even using HUD is showing that Shepard can use technology with recording input.
but then again, i still don't mind about it too much.

[Bcuz]

Plot holes in Mass Effect? Surely you jest.

[Ihatebadgames]

Why doesn't the Asari council member meld with Shepard?Go through his memories see what he/she has seen and done.Don't need a camara whose batteries would go out or you'd leave the lens cap on.

[mcsupersport]

Izhalezan wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...

What I don't understand is now people actually think in ME2 that the council doesn't believe in Reapers? And what I also don't understand is why people think they would discuss anything of such Galaxy shaking significance with a possible rogue agent working with a terrorist organization.

The Council knows but will never admit it to prevent panic.

How can you belive it yet also deny to the face of the person who exposed it?

Think for a second, you have helmet/armor recording devices while visiting the Citadel and the Council.  The Council discusses the Reaper threat and the projections of deaths and loss of planets with Shepard.  Cerberus then takes a copy of the Video file and releases it on the net to discredit the Council......what would happen???

Again, do you really think the Council will discuss a major Galaxy threat that is capable of wiping life out in the entire Galaxy with a rogue Specter working with a known terrorist organization??  How niave are you?  And do you really believe politicians EVER tell the truth when they have any other option?

[Izhalezan]

Ihatebadgames wrote...

Why doesn't the Asari council member meld with Shepard?Go through his memories see what he/she has seen and done.Don't need a camara whose batteries would go out or you'd leave the lens cap on.

From what I've been told, the melding is not really a "polite and decent act."  So it would be unbecoming of her to just do that, even though she would certainly see for herself the truth, although it's not like humans are known for being able to fake memories..... but if that's true, then you and Liara "did it" in front of the crew... several times..