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[Zoikster]

 Laidlaw: “If I’m going to ****** you guys off, it’s going to be because I still firmly believe that RPGs do need to be more accessible to new players,” Laidlaw adds. “Not diminished, but made less imposing and less terrifying to new players. In part because I want more people to play Dragon Age, and in part because there have been a lot of improvements in gameplay and UI design in the past 15 years, and we can learn from them.”

And this bit.

 “I’ve said it before, and I will say it again: we stripped some stuff out of DA becuase it was busted”

Exactly what was busted? I'd love some clarification. What exactly was so "imposing" about DA:O? I introducted several people to it who weren't familiar with the RPG genre who absolutely loved it; and hated DA 2. A lot of casual types adored the game. Laidlaw has made some serious miscalculations here.I just can't wrap my mind around his throught process except to think that EA says to dumb the game down to try and draw a larger audience. Which obviously would/has backfired. Can we at least stop blaming DA 2 problems on Origins?

Here is the link

Sorry, just had to vent. 

Modifié par Zoikster, 14 août 2011 - 07:37 .

[LobselVith8]

I think we've seen with the response from fans and critics that Dragon Age 2 hasn't been received as well as they had hoped. Especially their "innovations." Honestly, I don't think anyone should expect anything similar to Origins to ever surface from Bioware.

[Zoikster]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think we've seen with the response from fans and critics that Dragon Age 2 hasn't been received as well as they had hoped. Especially their "innovations." Honestly, I don't think anyone should expect anything similar to Origins to ever surface from Bioware.

I think I'm more aggrivated that he seems to be implying Origins was broken. Drives me up the wall.

Modifié par Zoikster, 14 août 2011 - 07:13 .

[LobselVith8]

Zoikster wrote...

I think I'm more aggrivated that he seems to be implying Origins was broken. Drives me up the wall.

It's akin to the creators blaming the fans for the poor reception of Dragon Age 2, and for blaming fans for expecting a sequel to Origins... to be remotely similar to the game that got them interested in the Dragon Age universe in the first place.

[Savber100]

Zoikster wrote...

 Laidlow: “If I’m going to ****** you guys off, it’s going to be because I still firmly believe that RPGs do need to be more accessible to new players,” Laidlaw adds. “Not diminished, but made less imposing and less terrifying to new players. In part because I want more people to play Dragon Age, and in part because there have been a lot of improvements in gameplay and UI design in the past 15 years, and we can learn from them.”

And this bit.

 “I’ve said it before, and I will say it again: we stripped some stuff out of DA becuase it was busted”

Exactly what was busted? I'd love some clarification. What exactly was so "imposing" about DA:O? I introducted several people to it who weren't familiar with the RPG genre who absolutely loved it; and hated DA 2. A lot of casual types adored the game. Laidlaw has made some serious miscalculations here.I just can't wrap my mind around his throught process except to think that EA says to dumb the game down to try and draw a larger audience. Which obviously would/has backfired. Can we at least stop blaming DA 2 problems on Origins?

Here is the link

Sorry, just had to vent. 

Yeah.. the Origin bash has been pretty stinging seeing how 2/3 of us played DA2 because we enjoyed/loved Origins. 

Laidlaw had the chance to prove that simple = dumb, shallow, and linear and i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when DA2 announced. Sure, I don't mind making things easier to undertand but than why does this mean that the story and the characters have to suddenly be a jumbled mess? The writing ended up being horrendous and unsubtle with characters basically screaming "Look at me! I'm the stereotypical naive girl or I'm the emo boy with a mysterious past!" 

Instead of just creating a better UI and easier to understand mechanics, his team just kinda went for the easy route by making everything more simple rather than true streamlining which should have made DA2 easy-to-understand but still have incredible depth. 

If Laidlaw wants to make gameplay easier... fine, I'll deal with it. But keep the depth of the choices, the story, and the characters. 

Also why so insecure that you have to keep treating Origins like some diseased leper? I seriously want to hear Laidlaw come up and say that Origins was an incredible game and tell us why he loved the original. I honestly never heard him even give a positive view of Origins besides to say that the vague promise of DA3 being the "best of both worlds" 

Modifié par Savber100, 14 août 2011 - 07:23 .

[TEWR]

DAO wasn't that hard of a game. It was actually easy to get into. It was my first cRPG (I've played JRPGs and games like Pokemon before), and I didn't find it imposing at all.

Combat animations were odd, but that was a minor concern.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 14 août 2011 - 07:51 .

[King Cousland]

I hear you. There was a lot of room for improvement in Origins no doubt, but what was needed was a lick of paint, not a demolition and rebuild. Does Bioware honestly think that shooter fans or people who wouldn't normally play RPGs are going to come over in droves just because of a few changes? No, they aren't. Maybe a few'll be drawn in sure, but the changes are more likely to draw in 3% and alienate 13%, maybe even 30%. The fact remains however, that RPG players will stick to RPGs and shooter fans will stick to shooters. It's an immutable fact of nature, not a bad one, nor a good one. It simply is.

[King Cousland]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

DAO wasn't that hard of a game. It was actually easy to get into. It was my first real RPG (unless you broaden the concept of RPGs to a few other games, like Pokemon), and I didn't find it imposing at all.

Combat animations were odd, but that was a minor concern.

This. Honestly, I had played some RPGs beforehand, but it was casual. I saw the  Orgins trailer and was blown away. Bought the game and now I'm a harcore RPer. Origins is my go to game when I don't have anything else to play. 

[TEWR]

I don't fault anyone for wanting to draw more fans to the series. But there are other ways that could be done without sacrificing the core integrity of the game.

Badass trailers usually work.

[Atakuma]

I believe it's simply that Bioware doesn't want to make games like Origins anymore, and are attempting to rationalize it by saying their trying to expand the audience.

[King Cousland]

Atakuma wrote...

I believe it's simply that Bioware doesn't want to make games like Origins anymore, and are attempting to rationalize it by saying their trying to expand the audience.

Yeah, "Bioware" *cough* EA! *cough*

[Atakuma]

harkness72 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I believe it's simply that Bioware doesn't want to make games like Origins anymore, and are attempting to rationalize it by saying their trying to expand the audience.

Yeah, "Bioware" *cough* EA! *cough*

That distiction doesn't really matter anymore. Bioware is EA.

[miraclemight]

I'll appreciate it if developers move huge innovations to a new IP, and improve the familiar formula that made DA:O popular.

[Alexander1136]

Zoikster wrote...

 Laidlaw: “If I’m going to ****** you guys off, it’s going to be because I still firmly believe that RPGs do need to be more accessible to new players,” Laidlaw adds. “Not diminished, but made less imposing and less terrifying to new players. In part because I want more people to play Dragon Age, and in part because there have been a lot of improvements in gameplay and UI design in the past 15 years, and we can learn from them.”

And this bit.

 “I’ve said it before, and I will say it again: we stripped some stuff out of DA becuase it was busted”

Exactly what was busted? I'd love some clarification. What exactly was so "imposing" about DA:O? I introducted several people to it who weren't familiar with the RPG genre who absolutely loved it; and hated DA 2. A lot of casual types adored the game. Laidlaw has made some serious miscalculations here.I just can't wrap my mind around his throught process except to think that EA says to dumb the game down to try and draw a larger audience. Which obviously would/has backfired. Can we at least stop blaming DA 2 problems on Origins?

Here is the link

Sorry, just had to vent. 

I agree with you 100% Origins was my first RPG that I really liked. I've played oblivion and a FF here or there. and I played champions of norrrath on ps2. But usually I Play shooters, Origins was the first RPG i really got into and is the only other game besides SOCOM where i frequent the message boards because I want to be active in its community. Orgins was pretty damn simple and self explaitory if you ask me.  it's there series if they want to ruin it let them Im tired of complaining.

Modifié par Alexander1136, 14 août 2011 - 07:43 .

[Zhijn]

"I probably should have just cut content to reduce the re-use, but that’s a tough call to make in the moment."

What the hell of an excuse is that, DA2 was a 18 month project. 
How about you tell EA (or yourself) to give you another year or two on the game.

Blah, this guy have zero interest in fan feedback, even more so the game itself.

Gah i better stop here or ill say something ill regret.. Grr!.

[GarrusV4karian]

Not these kind of threads again...

[Zoikster]

GarrusV4karian wrote...

Not these kind of threads again...

What's wrong with my thread? I vented some legitimate complaints and would love some clarification.
 

Modifié par Zoikster, 14 août 2011 - 07:53 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Zoikster wrote...
Exactly what was busted? I'd love some clarification. What exactly was so "imposing" about DA:O?

I agree that clarification is needed in BioPR.

EA says to dumb the game down to try and draw a larger audience.

1) Resorting to blaming EA never makes you look credible.
2) BioWare has been moving in this direction for years now.
3) Expanding your audience =/= dumbing down

Can we at least stop blaming DA 2 problems on Origins?

I honestly don't understand why people think that saying "this didn't work" is blame.

[Zoikster]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

1) Resorting to blaming EA never makes you look credible.
2) BioWare has been moving in this direction for years now.
3) Expanding your audience =/= dumbing down

Can we at least stop blaming DA 2 problems on Origins?

I honestly don't understand why people think that saying "this didn't work" is blame.

I didn't "resort to blaming EA" I said the only way I personally can wrap my mind around it, since this all seems so illogical, is that this was a call by EA. I don't care what you think of my "credibilitiy" to be honest. I was speculating, since all this seems to make little sense.

As far as your last line, I honestly don't how you don't think doesn't equate to blame. Saying Origins is busted as the reasons for stripping the game....you connect the dots.

Edit: And one more thing, expanding your audience to Laidlaw means "dumbing down" that didn't quite work out so well did it? 

Modifié par Zoikster, 14 août 2011 - 08:02 .

[Nerdage]

After more than a dozen Origins play-throughs I've yet to craft anything above lesser lyrium potions outside of quest items, I'd say that was broken, or at best poorly implemented. Not broken in the sense that it didn't work, I just don't think it worked very well.

But really what's wrong with making things more accessible? It says nothing about how complex the game actually is. If I might use a slightly patronizing metaphor, replacing your doorstep with a ramp makes the house more accessible, you people act like he's planning to just remove the whole floor to bring the whole thing down to ground level, which would be pretty hard to do (a complete re-design of the game systems) and rather miss the point (that's making a different kind of game that's already accessible, not making RPGs more accessible). Accessible means helping the player understand the systems, not to just removing the systems to make it simpler, so what's the problem? Unless you want to argue he doesn't mean what he's saying, in which case why quote him at all?

[Pzykozis]

I'd say skills were fairly busted [coercion lulwut? Need arbitrary point to be able to speak in a persuasive manner, tactics needing points... really?] (and Arcane warriors... and rogues and warriors using the same dual wield abilities), but I bet a lot of people would beg to differ. Shame that, you should become my mindless minions and we'd create a better world for all or atleast myself, or something [I'm just joking.. kinda-ish].

Busted things that aren't in the second game... seems to fall in line with what he said, obviously I can't speak for him but y'know, Origins was great, but there were worthless [pretty much all of the crafting] / broken things in there, whether they should have been improved [crafting is better now or well... more useful anyway] or removed is a different story though I guess.

[Zoikster]

Pzykozis wrote...

I'd say skills were fairly busted [coercion lulwut? Need arbitrary point to be able to speak in a persuasive manner, tactics needing points... really?] (and Arcane warriors... and rogues and warriors using the same dual wield abilities), but I bet a lot of people would beg to differ. Shame that, you should become my mindless minions and we'd create a better world for all or atleast myself, or something [I'm just joking.. kinda-ish].

Busted things that aren't in the second game... seems to fall in line with what he said, obviously I can't speak for him but y'know, Origins was great, but there were worthless [pretty much all of the crafting] / broken things in there, whether they should have been improved [crafting is better now or well... more useful anyway] or removed is a different story though I guess.

Adding lolwut doesn't strengthen your case. I happened to like coercion.

[Zoikster]

nerdage wrote...

After more than a dozen Origins play-throughs I've yet to craft anything above lesser lyrium potions outside of quest items, I'd say that was broken, or at best poorly implemented. Not broken in the sense that it didn't work, I just don't think it worked very well.

But really what's wrong with making things more accessible? It says nothing about how complex the game actually is. If I might use a slightly patronizing metaphor, replacing your doorstep with a ramp makes the house more accessible, you people act like he's planning to just remove the whole floor to bring the whole thing down to ground level, which would be pretty hard to do (a complete re-design of the game systems) and rather miss the point (that's making a different kind of game that's already accessible, not making RPGs more accessible). Accessible means helping the player understand the systems, not to just removing the systems to make it simpler, so what's the problem? Unless you want to argue he doesn't mean what he's saying, in which case why quote him at all?

If he meant making the game more accessible by changing the game so drastically that in the end it massively hurt sales, then I guess he has a point.

[Darth Krytie]

Zoikster wrote...

GarrusV4karian wrote...

Not these kind of threads again...

What's wrong with my thread? I vented some legitimate complaints and would love some clarification.
 

1. This sort of whinge-fest has been done to death and then some necromancer brought it back to life just to do it to death for a second and more annoying time.

2. I swear these threads are done because people get a thrill out of having the people you're writing about hear your insignificant opinion.

3. Origins wasn't perfect and some people played both and preferred DA2. It'd be awesome if anyone on this forums present their opinions as just that...opinions instead of touting them as fact. Fact is, not everyone will agree.

4. Get some prespective. If it were just as easy as phoning your boss and saying, "Hey, yo, give me x more months to work on this (which does, in fact, equal x more dollars to pay for it), it'd have been done. There are realities of the gaming industry which people need to accept. It costs money to make games. There are limited resources. You can't prevent 100% of bugs no matter how many QCers you use.

5. Busted might just be referring to old technology not working with the new technology. It actually has been explained before on the forums. Many times. There were aspects of the old engine that would not work well with the new one. There were things that did not transfer well. There were things they tried to improve on. Mind you, they have telemetry and data we do not to base their opinions on. And experience. And know-how. etc. etc.

Modifié par Darth Krytie, 14 août 2011 - 08:08 .