628 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

I'm having trouble following the conversation now, if there was any to begin with.

[Darth Krytie]

FieryDove wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

ilu! Let's be bffs and hold hands and such.

Obviously, it's because they get "cool points" if a Dev comments on their thread and they can brag about how they got the nifty bioware clicky on their post.

That's really unfair and one helluvah blanket statement. I'm on the "I like DA2" side of the fence, and I had very interesting discussions here with people who don't or have radically different opinions than mine on specific points.

No its not unfair. They just caught 25 more cool points for themselves. /snark - Sorry I had too

My opinion of BSN and maybe mankind has been lowered by one trillion cool points.

Now, you made me laugh, honestly. (Though, you're totally undercutting just how many cool points I earned, methinks.)

But, it was a blanket statement and obviously, with the sketchy whistly smiley there, wasn't totally being serious... I shudder to think that we actually do need sarcasm italics. It makes me want to cry a little.

[Yrkoon]

Darth Krytie wrote...


ilu! Let's be bffs and hold hands and such.

Obviously, it's because they get "cool points" if a Dev comments on their thread and they can brag about how they got the nifty bioware clicky on their post.

Such Nonsense.

This is a community.  Some of us have friends here.    Some of us have been posting  long long before DA2 came out.  Some of us  are here even though we haven't even played Mass effect  (for example).   And some of us  just like debating.   And as for why we're posting in the DA2 forums even though we thought  DA2 was spectacular garbage...  Well, when all the other Bioware game's you've played were awesome, but this one sucked,  you'll probably  want to stick around here to try and find out  what the hell happened, and what is being done to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 14 août 2011 - 11:49 .

[Maconbar]

Zoikster wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

Not only that, but it's not as though you're accepting my opinion either, you just dislike the tone I've taken. Seems my strong personality offends you.

A "strong personality" isn't an excuse to be rude. If hoorayforicecream thinks your tone has crossed a line, then I'm sure it has. You have an opinion, that's fine! Being civil in expressing that opinion is one of the rules of this forum, no matter how "strong" your personality is.

That'd be funny if I were the only one being rude. I was trying to moderate the thread with a nice tone, to keep the ad-homs to a minimum. 

Wrong. Once you started calling people Fanbois, you were no longer "moderating the thread with a nice tone."

[Apollo Starflare]

I'm not even going to begin to read the pages that have gone before, threads such as this never go in a positive direction, however:

In the bluntest possible way the OP has said something I agree with, whilst I don't overly have a problem with the mindset of 'bringing in new players is a good thing' - was Origins really turning that many away? Perhaps that question is best left to the number crunchers at BioWare HQ but personally I've introduced a handfull of people to DAO that have barely touched RPGs previously and the magic of the DA world has drawn them in regardless - much as KotOR did for me.

There is undoubtably such a thing as too much streamlining, or catering to those who would otherwise overlook a genre - some people will never approach a fantasy RPG which requires some thought on the players part with any enthusiasm, it's just that simple.

Modifié par Apollo Starflare, 14 août 2011 - 11:46 .

[Zoikster]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm having trouble following the conversation now, if there was any to begin with.

Agreed, the civility has went out the window. I admit I was uncivil a few times, but it wasn't one-way. Let's try to get back on track instead of making thread a he said she said before it gets locked down.

[Zoikster]

Maconbar wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

Not only that, but it's not as though you're accepting my opinion either, you just dislike the tone I've taken. Seems my strong personality offends you.

A "strong personality" isn't an excuse to be rude. If hoorayforicecream thinks your tone has crossed a line, then I'm sure it has. You have an opinion, that's fine! Being civil in expressing that opinion is one of the rules of this forum, no matter how "strong" your personality is.

That'd be funny if I were the only one being rude. I was trying to moderate the thread with a nice tone, to keep the ad-homs to a minimum. 

Wrong. Once you started calling people Fanbois, you were no longer "moderating the thread with a nice tone."

I understood that, but the personal attacks started well before I said fanbois.

[Sutekh]

FieryDove wrote...

My opinion of BSN and maybe mankind has been lowered by one trillion cool points.

Because of what I said? 

(Actually forget it. I'm just very, very confused by this thread. I think I'll just go back to fight fady darkspawn now.)

[Monica21]

Yrkoon wrote...
This is a community.  Some of us have friends here.    Some of us have been posting  long long before DA2 came out.  Some of us  are here even though we haven't even played Mass effect  (for example).  And as for why we're posting in the DA2 forums even though we thought  DA2 was spectacular garbage...  Well, when all the other Bioware game's you've played were awesome, but this one sucked,  you'll probably  want to stick around here to try and find out  what the hell happened, and what is being done to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I like you, and mostly because your name is Yrkoon. My first RPG character's name was Myshella. 

[FieryDove]

Sutekh wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

My opinion of BSN and maybe mankind has been lowered by one trillion cool points.

Because of what I said? 

(Actually forget it. I'm just very, very confused by this thread. I think I'll just go back to fight fady darkspawn now.)

Not in a million years. You are fine. It was more a less a comment on the snarkiness or lack of in some of the posts in general.

We have something positive going...no one from the UraHater has jumped in yet. Ooo did I just jinx this thread. My bad.

[MorrigansLove]

www.youtube.com/watch

Guys, guys, stop the useless arguing and watch this video!

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

This thread is starting to become too funny.

have some popcorn

[Aeowyn]

MorrigansLove wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Guys, guys, stop the useless arguing and watch this video!

This is amazing.

[bEVEsthda]

MorrigansLove wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Guys, guys, stop the useless arguing and watch this video!

...Of course, the mere context risks making that an insulting post

[nitefyre410]

MorrigansLove wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Guys, guys, stop the useless arguing and watch this video!

  

you sir  win post the day.   LOL

[Zoikster]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

This thread is starting to become too funny.

have some popcorn

I kind of figured it might devolve into a DA 2 is better than DA:O brawl, I was hoping that wouldn't be the case though. Oh well 

Modifié par Zoikster, 15 août 2011 - 12:02 .

[Salaya]

So, returnign to the point of this thread...

I do not see any problem in making a game more accesible to wider audience. It's great But Dragon Age Origins was already a game that satisfied lots of audiences, no? Sales justify that statement. The changes implemented in DA2 had the contrary effect: it sold worse. So? maybe you need to implement changes better. Or maybe -just maybe- you need to accept that classic CRPG as conceived in Origins is not as bad for wider audiences as you think.

By the way: is really necessary to state that fans of origins are wrong to believe that was a great game? I know. He is only saying that the game needed changes. But that tone... it was really the most appropiate thing to do? Whenever I read this press/interviews I think that the new devs for DA franchise see us (fans of Origins) as some kind of weird, elite players who don't want changes.

There are many, too many, changes in DA2 that do not fall in the "wide audience" category. Changes that are, plain and simple, bad dev moves.

It is better that players are unable to swap weapons? It was worse when players could equip any Playable Character with any weapons/armor? It is better that companions could only start chats within the hubs? It was worse that players were able to start lots of different prologues? It is better that quests items do not show in menu? It was worse that the PC version had tactical camera? It is better that enemies pop from nowhere? It was worse that we were able to have impact on main quests decisions? It is better that we do not have any dialog skills to improve? It was worse that rogues were capable of setting up traps? It is better that facts contradict the codex? It was worse to play within different, not re-used, enviroments?

Sigh.

Modifié par Salaya, 15 août 2011 - 12:05 .

[TEWR]

MorrigansLove wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Guys, guys, stop the useless arguing and watch this video!

dropped it right into my favorites. Thank you for that

[Zanallen]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Hmmm, these boards aren’t the exclusive property of those who somehow managed to glean a little joy out of the consensus driven abomination that was DA2. To bring us back on topic, Mike’s vision for the franchise, as I understand it, is to strip Dragon Age down to its bare bones in an effort to draw in a new audience who would otherwise have been turned off by the depth and complexity of Origins. I loathe this new direction and Mike’s vain attempts to explain it away as anything more worthy than assembly-line game development. Whats more, this is the right place to say so!

That is actually not at all what Mike thinks or has said. He said he wants to keep the complexity, but build up to it. Thus making the game more accessible. It would start out relatively simple and then build up on it to create a fairly complex game.

[Zanallen]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Do me a lemon Zanallen, I’ve dabbled with Dragon Age 2 and to say the game isn’t as complex as Origins is to say the least of it I'm afraid.

I never said it was. I was telling you what Laidlaw has said on the subject at hand. He has also said that, much like with ME3, they are thinking about adding some complexity back in. They stripped things out with DA2 that could have just been tinkered with. However, they only had 18 months. I assume several things were not working as they wished or didn't work together and so were cut for now. Nothing says they cannot be added back in.

[Meglort]

OP - agree with your frustration on these kind of 'PR' comments for what it is worth.

I have introduced maybe a dozen people to DAO, would never consider doing the same for DA2.

The kind of comments (repeated as they are from these forums) seem to be from someone who is making excuses for their bad judgement, unable to accept that their idea was more poorly received than their predecessors and simply seem to completely unable accept negative feedback.

I have a shelf full of quality bioware games that I have loved playing for years and I am worrying after this there will be no more accumulating there in years to come based on these kind of comments...

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I totally agree with the OP. Origins was not broken, nor was it "terrifying" to new RPG players. In fact, Origins, compared to other ROG games and franchises before it, was ridiculiusly simple and easy to jump into for even the most casual, non-RPG gamer. Hell, I was shocked to discover my bartender, who prefers racing and sports games, played DAO and loved it, it was his forst RPG ever.

Origins mechanics and gameplay were incredibly simple for the new commer to grasp.

And I agree that Origins did need some improvements, but these were incredibly minor when compared to everything the game did right. It did only need a few touch ups, not an overhaul. In my opinion, they tossed the baby out with the bath water in DA2, which I saw as a degression and backwards step from Origins. In fact, I'd really like to know what sort of drugs Bioware's management are on if they think there was anything "innovative" about DA2. I saw nothing in DA2 that was really groundbreaking, new, or even imaginative in fantasy RPGs.  The game might have been innovative in the 90s, but now? Meh. It was definitely several steps back from origins, which really was innovative and ground breaking, as far as I am concerned.

This contempt Bioware has for perhaps their best and most innovative creation disturbs me, especially given what they consider to be an "improvement".

[Yrkoon]

Zanallen wrote...

He said he wants to keep the complexity, but build up to it. Thus making the game more accessible. It would start out relatively simple and then build up on it to create a fairly complex game.

What does that even mean?

 That  the elusive "new crowd" that quits after  an hour due to the complexity, will now play for 5 hours before quitting due to the complexity?


Mike Laidlaw is the master of stating Ideals that sound great in theory.   But what he's actually saying makes no sense in application. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 août 2011 - 12:29 .