628 réponses à ce sujet

[lobi]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Esbatty wrote...

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Hard to get a better DA  game when everyone defends it, you may like bad games hooray but i don't.

Someone has to be blamed for Barbie Horse Adventure being backwards compatible on the Xbox 360 but not Star Wars Starfighter. That person... is now you. I hope you're happy with yourself.

Ok, batty bring on the blame

So it was you!

Modifié par lobi, 15 août 2011 - 09:58 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

No i don't confuse fact with opinions i stated MY opinion, yes he explain well but don't share his opinion that's all or perhaps i explained myself bad (i don't hate DA 2 but i don't love it either).

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 15 août 2011 - 10:05 .

[hoorayforicecream]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

No i don't confuse fact with opinions i stated MY opinion, yes he explain well but don't share his opinion that's all or perhaps i explained myself bad (i don't hate DA 2 but i don't love it either).

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Nightmare is only difficult in a few battle in DA 2 while nightmare is DA:O was easier so it's not that much of a difference and the game is plain easy from hard and down so i don't agree with a wider range of difficulties, hard is like normal on dao. and the skilltree still sucks, more complex maybe it's a matter of personal preference but the ton of negative stuff annoys, hell it's even less specs than dao offered, DA 2 sloppy work is a fact.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 15 août 2011 - 10:07 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

Ok, i forgot that i wrote that last thing, i should have written that i think so, anyway thanks for showing me the error,

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 15 août 2011 - 10:11 .

[Elhanan]

Ain't just the last thing, as your take on the difficulty is also an opinion, as would be the suckage of the skill tree.

And I love that link....

[turian councilor Knockout]

Difficulty opinion yes but there i did wrote that i did not agree with him and not that he was wrong, skilltree is a matter of what you prefer and i did wrote that too and the link was fun but i was a bit irritated so i took it negative but sorry for that FACT statement i made.

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 15 août 2011 - 10:24 .

[Elhanan]

I understand that you have the opinion that DA2 is a bad game, and you wish to rant on that. But that opinion does not make it factual. And hardly 'everyone' is defending the game....

Modifié par Elhanan, 15 août 2011 - 10:30 .

[Yrkoon]

Combat difficulty was NOT what Laidlaw meant when he was talking about "accessability to a larger audience". He was talking about game complexity. The mechanics, the learning curve, and skill-sets and stuff like that. ie. The "wall of stats" that traditional RPGs are known to greet you with at the door.

But again, I don't see how DA:O applies. It was very SIMPLE and intuitive  by traditional RPG standards. Why the hell do they feel they need to make it even more simple?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 août 2011 - 11:23 .

[Zanallen]

I didn't find Dragon Age: Origins terribly complex; however, I have been playing RPGs since I first got my NES as a young boy. Other people may not be accustomed to RPGs and may need less of a learning curve. As such, I have no problem with making games more accessible, as long as Bioware makes good on their promise of building up to a suitable complexity.

[Feanor_II]

Continuing the process to transform from Clint Eastwood to Michael Bay.
From Burton's Batman to Schumacher's Batman.

Modifié par Feanor_II, 15 août 2011 - 11:25 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

Bioware says a lot things, problem is that they think that streamlining is the future but if they keep the promise to change those things that they talked about i will happily but DA 3 and like it.

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 15 août 2011 - 11:28 .

[Eudaemonium]

Yrkoon wrote...

Combat difficulty was NOT what Laidlaw meant when he was talking about "accessability to a larger audience". He was talking about game complexity. The mechanics, the learning curve, and skill-sets and stuff like that. ie. The "wall of stats" that traditional RPGs are known to greet you with at the door.

But again, I don't see how DA:O applies. It was very SIMPLE by traditional RPG standards. Why the hell do they feel they need to make it even more simple?

It was simple, but unless you were an RPG veteran or had someone sitting next to you it was pretty tricky to understand what most of the statistics even did. I have a few friends who dumped level-ups into meaningless statistics because they misunderstood the actual gameplay benefits of those statistics. DA2 did a much beter job of explaining what the stats did by giving you actual visual indicators on the level-up screen. You can see Attack, Defence, Magic Resistance, Etcetera all being raised by visible amounts. I thought DA2 handled this very well. Could it be made more accessible/intuitive? Probably. I tend to think some of teh issue is the fact that teh leveling-up mechanic tends to be treated very much as a feature of gameplay-story segregation.

[Elhanan]

RE: Simplification

I did not miss the Skill tree; just wished that all, or at least more Skills had may their way to being integrated into Attributes. And I did like the more detailed explanations of the Attributes, as to leave the actual equations further behind the curtain.

What I miss is the freedom to create heavy armor and shield Rogues, Warrior archers and DW's, and weapon wielding wizards (gotta luv alliteration).

[AmstradHero]

I've noted that many of the people who complain about the "simplification" and "dumbing down" of DA2 routinely ignore some of the longer and more reasoned arguments in any discussions about the merits of the two games, particularly if those arguments aren't saying "DA2 is terrible."

I just found that to be an interesting observation.

[Yrkoon]

Elhanan wrote...

What I miss is the freedom to create heavy armor and shield Rogues, Warrior archers and DW's, and weapon wielding wizards (gotta luv alliteration).

Yep.  But again, you and me call that freedom.    Bioware devs would call it  "overly complex".     After all, You really have to play around   with those  "intimidating" stats if you want your rogue to wear heavy armor  and shields and not totally suck in combat.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 août 2011 - 11:48 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 15 août 2011 - 12:05 .

[element eater]

mmm interview is ok on the whole. Although the sentiment of dao having busted aspects seems a little strong. I certainly don't believe any particular aspect was flawed to the extent that it was better of removed all together rather than improved nor do I believe that the changes made in da2 necessarily occur in areas were dao required improvement.

[MorrigansLove]

Feanor_II wrote...

Continuing the process to transform from Clint Eastwood to Michael Bay.
From Burton's Batman to Schumacher's Batman.

#

WIN!

[SkittlesKat96]

AmstradHero wrote...

I've noted that many of the people who complain about the "simplification" and "dumbing down" of DA2 routinely ignore some of the longer and more reasoned arguments in any discussions about the merits of the two games, particularly if those arguments aren't saying "DA2 is terrible."

I just found that to be an interesting observation.

Your completely right.

People are misinterpreting what the developers are saying and won't accept that maybe a voiced protagonist, better cinematics, streamlined companion systems and UI is better for Bioware's games.

DA 2 was bad because of: Bad plot writing and ideas (the connection of plot, the time skip idea etc.) repetitive and boring/unlively environments and the fact that DA 2 was rushed by EA.

Bioware is trying to find a middle ground / compromise so they can get more fans and recognition and success. If they hadn't made ME 1 and ME 2 then they would be much less popular and would keep declining in popularity (the amount of old school Rpg fans is small, and games cost money to make. Maybe its EA behind this, I'm not sure.)

So yeah. The point is Bioware is trying to find a middle ground with their games, they made DA 2 and didn't find that balance and they rushed the game and it ended up bad now all the oldschool fans are outraging and misinterpreting what the devs are saying.

EDIT: I know I will get flamed for saying this, so all I have to say is that when Dragon Age 3 comes out it will (hopefully) be a good game and will prove that there is a middle ground and that moving with the future isn't such a bad thing...

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 15 août 2011 - 12:17 .

[Yrkoon]

Well, I don't know how "small" the old school RPG crowd is, but DA:O is Bioware's biggest selling game to date, and it was fairly well received by the RPG crowd. So Perhaps there's some formula within it that trumps even the elusive "middle ground"  that people so matter-of-factly think has to be reached.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 août 2011 - 12:50 .

[Eudaemonium]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

EDIT: I know I will get flamed for saying this, so all I have to say is that when Dragon Age 3 comes out it will (hopefully) be a good game and will prove that there is a middle ground and that moving with the future isn't such a bad thing...

My opinion is that Dragon Age 2 will be looked back on in the same way fans of Devil May Cry view DMC2. DMC2 was hated by a lot of fans for its change in tone and various other systems, but it was the origin of a lot of the more developed gameplay systems that were loved and praised in DMC3.

Basically, DA2 is a good game with some rather overly-noticable flaws (that as a result tend to be concentrated on).

[csfteeeer]

Eudaemonium wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

EDIT: I know I will get flamed for saying this, so all I have to say is that when Dragon Age 3 comes out it will (hopefully) be a good game and will prove that there is a middle ground and that moving with the future isn't such a bad thing...

My opinion is that Dragon Age 2 will be looked back on in the same way fans of Devil May Cry view DMC2. DMC2 was hated by a lot of fans for its change in tone and various other systems, but it was the origin of a lot of the more developed gameplay systems that were loved and praised in DMC3.

Basically, DA2 is a good game with some rather overly-noticable flaws (that as a result tend to be concentrated on).

Damn, i hope you're right, otherwise, DA2 will be the New Deus Ex 2.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if this has already been mentioned.

There was nothing wrong with DAO or DAA until patch 1.03 came out. Both games played fine until this patch. Since this patch Awakenings is partially broken. This is when the imports got broken was due to this patch or at least with my games. So I can't speak for everyone only on the games that I actually own. We still don't have a patch to correct the mistakes that this patch created. So instead of turning the patch back or fully repairing this patch Laidlaw says that DAO and DAA is broken? Lame excuse if you ask me for the whole game to be rebuilt. Foolish actually and a waste of resources. Did the engine need to be tweaked? I'd say yes but not to the point of a total rebuild.

Many modders over at dragonagenexus have created mods that repaired the game. So if modders are able to create mods to correct many of the issues that patch 1.03 created, then I don't see the problem with the Dragon Age team repairing the two previous games.

Others who mod the game have created some amazing files and additions to the game with the use of the toolset and they didn't have any problems importing old characters into both engines, so I don't understand what the problem is with Bioware themselves not fixing their own game. There are some amazing fan created videos on the web showing their work.

So I really don't understand the problem or the issue of Laidlaw saying that DAO and DAA is broken and it needed to be scrapped. If I'm understanding correctly this is the whole problem on why they won't continue the warden's story for those of us who wish for this to happen, because according to them the imports are broken. I'd like to remove patch 1.03 but I can't if I want to play WH or other dlc that this patch is required.

Funny, but the only other rpg that I had played before DAO and DAA was NWN. I know of two other people who had never played an RPG before and they both love Dragon Age. I learned how to play the game and really enjoyed the challenge of it. Personally, I think and will always think DAO was the better game. I'm not sure if this was due to the longer development cycle of DAO. If I'm not mistaken it took them five years to create this game.

The modder community has already proven that the DAO and DAA can be repaired. The only thing that I can think of is that there is something coming in a future title that the old engine won't be able to handle. I'd believe this before believing that they couldn't repair the two previous games.