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[Celtic Latino]

Darth Krytie wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

GarrusV4karian wrote...

Not these kind of threads again...

What's wrong with my thread? I vented some legitimate complaints and would love some clarification.
 

1. This sort of whinge-fest has been done to death and then some necromancer brought it back to life just to do it to death for a second and more annoying time.

2. I swear these threads are done because people get a thrill out of having the people you're writing about hear your insignificant opinion.

3. Origins wasn't perfect and some people played both and preferred DA2. It'd be awesome if anyone on this forums present their opinions as just that...opinions instead of touting them as fact. Fact is, not everyone will agree.

4. Get some prespective. If it were just as easy as phoning your boss and saying, "Hey, yo, give me x more months to work on this (which does, in fact, equal x more dollars to pay for it), it'd have been done. There are realities of the gaming industry which people need to accept. It costs money to make games. There are limited resources. You can't prevent 100% of bugs no matter how many QCers you use.

5. Busted might just be referring to old technology not working with the new technology. It actually has been explained before on the forums. Many times. There were aspects of the old engine that would not work well with the new one. There were things that did not transfer well. There were things they tried to improve on. Mind you, they have telemetry and data we do not to base their opinions on. And experience. And know-how. etc. etc.

Couldn't have said it better. Like I've said since people BEGAN whining about DA2 months before it came out. If you don't like it, don't play it. If you love Origins and prefer it by all means stick with it (nothing wrong with it). I'm not saying DA2 is the best game ever nor am I saying Origins was bad. In fact, I played Origins ten times, twelve if you want to include Awakening, and fourteen if you want to go by console (twice on the PC, ten on my Xbox 360). I enjoyed the heck out of Origins when it came out, and yes, there were some things lacking in DA2. But...I liked DA2 better overall, being one of those "dumbed down console players", I got into the action combat faster, and I already knew what I was going up against when I've already read it was going to be a shorter, more concentrated game. I took it for what it was. I knew it wasn't Dragon Age Origins 2.0 nor was the entire series to be "Dragon Age: Tale of the Warden from Origins". 

The Dragon Age series is meant to be told in different perspectives of different characters. Origins got players into the world and was your traditional "let's save the world" type deal. DA2 had a concentrated story of defining a character and the conflicts he or she was presented with. I think what's got many continuing to be annoyed is that people are attached to one specific character (the Warden), I'm pretty darn sure if Hawke could be an elf or dwarf people would still be complaining because it wasn't their Origins character or a continuation. Of course, I'm sure if DA2 was called "Dragon Age: Hawke's Rise to Power" or something like that the backlash may be less severe, but I guess fans figured sequel = more of the same thing. 

I take both games for what they are. Personally after DA2 I can't go back to Origins, the combat and overall slower pace just feels drawn out to me. But...I respect that those who favor Origins can't get into the streamlined, "dumbed down" (as they call it), combat or the story of DA2 even (I even admit Origins had a better overall story). But, DA2 is what it is, and the series will go in the direction the producers choose to. 

Long rant/explanation aside, my suggestion is those who didn't like DA2 to just get over it or give it a rest already. The responses by developers are this way because they are tired of hearing the same complaints over and over again. 

Looking forward to how people are going to get over DA3. 

[TEWR]

I personally don't attack any of the devs (if any of my posts come off that way, I apologize because that's not the intent), but I do think much of DA's core integrity was lost in DAII. Specifically choices that don't get railroaded to the exact same ending.

And I do want some clarification on what was busted.

[Zoikster]

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

 Laidlaw: “If I’m going to ****** you guys off, it’s going to be because I still firmly believe that RPGs do need to be more accessible to new players,” Laidlaw adds. “Not diminished, but made less imposing and less terrifying to new players. In part because I want more people to play Dragon Age, and in part because there have been a lot of improvements in gameplay and UI design in the past 15 years, and we can learn from them.”

And this bit.

 “I’ve said it before, and I will say it again: we stripped some stuff out of DA becuase it was busted”

Exactly what was busted? I'd love some clarification. What exactly was so "imposing" about DA:O? I introducted several people to it who weren't familiar with the RPG genre who absolutely loved it; and hated DA 2. A lot of casual types adored the game. Laidlaw has made some serious miscalculations here.I just can't wrap my mind around his throught process except to think that EA says to dumb the game down to try and draw a larger audience. Which obviously would/has backfired. Can we at least stop blaming DA 2 problems on Origins?

Here is the link

Sorry, just had to vent. 

Gonna have to burst your bubble a bit here, PC Gamer took that quote way out of context.  The Quote came from a thread where quite a few Bioware staff and forum users were having a civil (Yeah I know weird eh?) Discussion about the reception Dragon age 2 got and the community feedback and how it was being assimilated.

http://social.biowar...ndex/7992640/1

The above thread has the entire debate in, its gets interesting around page 4 but its worth reading the first 10 or 15 to get the  context of that comment.

The sad thing is, the one time that we managed to get multiple bioware staff talking openly with us, PC gamer and Eurogamer take as many quotes out of context as they can to try and sensationalise the story which is rather sad because he goes on to list 4 big issues people had with DA 2 that they want to make sure never happen again. 

Unfortunately since then the forums have once again devolved into lets bash the biowarian, its understandable that frustrations ride high but this kind of quote without contex headline doesnt help.

It's not taken out of context, in fact its described in the article. I read the thread myself.

[Celtic Latino]

I do respect OP for being reasonable though, sorry if I came off as a little rude. : )

[Zoikster]

Celtic Latino wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

GarrusV4karian wrote...

Not these kind of threads again...

What's wrong with my thread? I vented some legitimate complaints and would love some clarification.
 

1. This sort of whinge-fest has been done to death and then some necromancer brought it back to life just to do it to death for a second and more annoying time.

2. I swear these threads are done because people get a thrill out of having the people you're writing about hear your insignificant opinion.

3. Origins wasn't perfect and some people played both and preferred DA2. It'd be awesome if anyone on this forums present their opinions as just that...opinions instead of touting them as fact. Fact is, not everyone will agree.

4. Get some prespective. If it were just as easy as phoning your boss and saying, "Hey, yo, give me x more months to work on this (which does, in fact, equal x more dollars to pay for it), it'd have been done. There are realities of the gaming industry which people need to accept. It costs money to make games. There are limited resources. You can't prevent 100% of bugs no matter how many QCers you use.

5. Busted might just be referring to old technology not working with the new technology. It actually has been explained before on the forums. Many times. There were aspects of the old engine that would not work well with the new one. There were things that did not transfer well. There were things they tried to improve on. Mind you, they have telemetry and data we do not to base their opinions on. And experience. And know-how. etc. etc.

Couldn't have said it better. Like I've said since people BEGAN whining about DA2 months before it came out. If you don't like it, don't play it. If you love Origins and prefer it by all means stick with it (nothing wrong with it). I'm not saying DA2 is the best game ever nor am I saying Origins was bad. In fact, I played Origins ten times, twelve if you want to include Awakening, and fourteen if you want to go by console (twice on the PC, ten on my Xbox 360). I enjoyed the heck out of Origins when it came out, and yes, there were some things lacking in DA2. But...I liked DA2 better overall, being one of those "dumbed down console players", I got into the action combat faster, and I already knew what I was going up against when I've already read it was going to be a shorter, more concentrated game. I took it for what it was. I knew it wasn't Dragon Age Origins 2.0 nor was the entire series to be "Dragon Age: Tale of the Warden from Origins". 

The Dragon Age series is meant to be told in different perspectives of different characters. Origins got players into the world and was your traditional "let's save the world" type deal. DA2 had a concentrated story of defining a character and the conflicts he or she was presented with. I think what's got many continuing to be annoyed is that people are attached to one specific character (the Warden), I'm pretty darn sure if Hawke could be an elf or dwarf people would still be complaining because it wasn't their Origins character or a continuation. Of course, I'm sure if DA2 was called "Dragon Age: Hawke's Rise to Power" or something like that the backlash may be less severe, but I guess fans figured sequel = more of the same thing. 

I take both games for what they are. Personally after DA2 I can't go back to Origins, the combat and overall slower pace just feels drawn out to me. But...I respect that those who favor Origins can't get into the streamlined, "dumbed down" (as they call it), combat or the story of DA2 even (I even admit Origins had a better overall story). But, DA2 is what it is, and the series will go in the direction the producers choose to. 

Long rant/explanation aside, my suggestion is those who didn't like DA2 to just get over it or give it a rest already. The responses by developers are this way because they are tired of hearing the same complaints over and over again. 

Looking forward to how people are going to get over DA3. 

If you don't like it, there are other threads. I've never understood people who come into a thread just to whine that they have a differing opinion. Sorry tough.

[AtreiyaN7]

Also from the article:

At the same time, Laidlaw says that Bioware are listening carefully to fan feedback to Dragon Age 2. He points toward the recently released DLC pack, Legacy as an indication that the developers have been acting on some of the most controversial aspects of the sequel, including the use of repeated areas, respawning waves of enemies and the customisation of party followers.

“Legacy, I think, goes a long way towards demonstrating that we are listening, that we are aware of the weaknesses of DAII, and that we will continue to address them,” writes Laidlaw. “Up until Legacy, though, I
don’t think anyone would have believed me if I’d said we were going to take it into account. A lot of people on this forum had built up a grand conspiracy theory where we were deliberately stripping RPG out of Dragon Age because we are MEAN.”

The rest of the article briefly addresses the four points: 
1. Area Re-use.
2. “Wave” combats
3. Impact of choice
4. Follower customization

It seems to me that judging what he said by the whole article, they've actually acknowledged changes that didn't sit right with some people. I rather doubt he meant that DA:O as a whole was "broken." I suspect that it refers to things such as the positioning characters in combat and how clunky the shuffling was. If you look at things like runecrafting in the Awakening expansion for example, it was a colossal pain in the butt (if you ask me) and was rather awkward/inconvenient. Maybe he's including crafting in the the "broken" category too (if he's taking the expansion into account in relation to DA:O). They're certainly not blaming fans either. Apparently, that's the new sin people say they're committing these days, though: "blaming fans." 

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 14 août 2011 - 08:27 .

[Zoikster]

I would give him credit if he said it was just a few things broken. But flat-out said DA:O was busted. He didn't go into specifics, which is why (if you can read) I asked for clarification.

[Maconbar]

Zoikster wrote...

shadowhawk233 wrote...

Zoikster, What else was missing from Dragon Age 2 that i should know about?

Other races and a lack of branched stories, the story was quite linear.

I would argue that DA:O was pretty linear also.

[Zoikster]

And exactly what was so imposing about DA:O I'd love to be enlightened.

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Zoikster wrote...

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

 Laidlaw: “If I’m going to ****** you guys off, it’s going to be because I still firmly believe that RPGs do need to be more accessible to new players,” Laidlaw adds. “Not diminished, but made less imposing and less terrifying to new players. In part because I want more people to play Dragon Age, and in part because there have been a lot of improvements in gameplay and UI design in the past 15 years, and we can learn from them.”

And this bit.

 “I’ve said it before, and I will say it again: we stripped some stuff out of DA becuase it was busted”

Exactly what was busted? I'd love some clarification. What exactly was so "imposing" about DA:O? I introducted several people to it who weren't familiar with the RPG genre who absolutely loved it; and hated DA 2. A lot of casual types adored the game. Laidlaw has made some serious miscalculations here.I just can't wrap my mind around his throught process except to think that EA says to dumb the game down to try and draw a larger audience. Which obviously would/has backfired. Can we at least stop blaming DA 2 problems on Origins?

Here is the link

Sorry, just had to vent. 

Gonna have to burst your bubble a bit here, PC Gamer took that quote way out of context.  The Quote came from a thread where quite a few Bioware staff and forum users were having a civil (Yeah I know weird eh?) Discussion about the reception Dragon age 2 got and the community feedback and how it was being assimilated.

http://social.biowar...ndex/7992640/1

The above thread has the entire debate in, its gets interesting around page 4 but its worth reading the first 10 or 15 to get the  context of that comment.

The sad thing is, the one time that we managed to get multiple bioware staff talking openly with us, PC gamer and Eurogamer take as many quotes out of context as they can to try and sensationalise the story which is rather sad because he goes on to list 4 big issues people had with DA 2 that they want to make sure never happen again. 

Unfortunately since then the forums have once again devolved into lets bash the biowarian, its understandable that frustrations ride high but this kind of quote without contex headline doesnt help.

It's not taken out of context, in fact its described in the article. I read the thread myself.

It really is taken out of context because the quote its self is not put into the context of the debate that was being had.   Its just a quote, it doesnt mention anything about the preceeding 10 pages or the folliowing 10 pages that would put that quote a much less harsh light.  On its own it does sound a very confrontational thing to say, but that thread was one which was operating on the principle of being able to say what ever you wanted to say and not have it jumped on, we got some good answers to a lot of questions. 

Now I am not one of these "I love Dragon age 2" people, fact is I too felt dissapointed with it in many ways, but the debate in that thread was more about the communities reception and perception of DA 2 and in that sense PC Gamer just went for the headline quote and did not even mention the way it came about or any of the discussion that lead to it.

So yes, it was taken out of context, because the quote was supplied with out any context. 

[Tirfan]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I personally don't attack any of the devs (if any of my posts come off that way, I apologize because that's not the intent), but I do think much of DA's core integrity was lost in DAII. Specifically choices that don't get railroaded to the exact same ending.

And I do want some clarification on what was busted.

I'd hug you if that wouldn't be quite weird.
Clarification what was busted and if the said feature was removed, why was it removed instead of trying to fix it would be really nice.

There is a boatload of things I think DA2 did wrong, yeah, many here don't share the same complaints that I have, especialyl on certain areas, but I have to say, it really felt amazing to play DA:O after DA2.. there just was something in that game that DA2 lacked.

But even after that, yeah, this bashing is getting a bit boring, even for me.

[Zoikster]

Maconbar wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

shadowhawk233 wrote...

Zoikster, What else was missing from Dragon Age 2 that i should know about?

Other races and a lack of branched stories, the story was quite linear.

I would argue that DA:O was pretty linear also.

Several starting choices and several different ways to end the game, I'd say they don't even compare in that department.

Modifié par Zoikster, 14 août 2011 - 08:28 .

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Zoikster wrote...

I would give him credit if he said it was just a few things broken. But flat-out said DA:O was busted. He didn't go into specifics, which is why (if you can read) I asked for clarification.

I can read just fine, but please continue with the condascending tone, I am sure you will get a lot of replys and find that people flock to give you the information you seek.

[Zoikster]

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

I would give him credit if he said it was just a few things broken. But flat-out said DA:O was busted. He didn't go into specifics, which is why (if you can read) I asked for clarification.

I can read just fine, but please continue with the condascending tone, I am sure you will get a lot of replys and find that people flock to give you the information you seek.

Likewise. Feeling's mutual

Modifié par Zoikster, 14 août 2011 - 08:35 .

[Monica21]

Darth Krytie wrote...
Actually, no. It doesn't make  my opinion of it more significant. It makes me tired of going to the Bioware forums five months after the game came out and there's still all this annoying complaining.

I never spend this much energy griping about stuff I don't like. I hated Venetica. I never bother to go whine on their forums. Instead, I play another game and move on.

I also don't sit around waiting for the Devs of the game to say something so I can deliberately take it the wrong way and call him out like I'm Anderson effing Cooper.

Well, I literally (like, an hour and a half ago) just finished my first play-through of DA2 and I was disappointed. I'm not going to keep from stating my opinion on the game because it annoys you and because the game is five months old. I'm pretty sure there's no time limit on when players get to stop expressing their opinion.

If people are "whining" it's because we see something that wasn't broken but needed a bit of refinement. We saw potential in storylines and it wasn't realized, and we saw bad paraphrases and lazy writing. If people are here expressing an opinion that you don't share it's because we still like the franchise and want the potential of it to be fully realized.

[Zoikster]

Monica21 wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...
Actually, no. It doesn't make  my opinion of it more significant. It makes me tired of going to the Bioware forums five months after the game came out and there's still all this annoying complaining.

I never spend this much energy griping about stuff I don't like. I hated Venetica. I never bother to go whine on their forums. Instead, I play another game and move on.

I also don't sit around waiting for the Devs of the game to say something so I can deliberately take it the wrong way and call him out like I'm Anderson effing Cooper.

Well, I literally (like, an hour and a half ago) just finished my first play-through of DA2 and I was disappointed. I'm not going to keep from stating my opinion on the game because it annoys you and because the game is five months old. I'm pretty sure there's no time limit on when players get to stop expressing their opinion.

If people are "whining" it's because we see something that wasn't broken but needed a bit of refinement. We saw potential in storylines and it wasn't realized, and we saw bad paraphrases and lazy writing. If people are here expressing an opinion that you don't share it's because we still like the franchise and want the potential of it to be fully realized.

Thank you, I couldn't agree more.

[dheer]

Darth Krytie wrote...

Zoikster wrote...
The irony, because you have a positive opinion of it, let me guess that makes your opinion more significant. Let's stop attacking others for simply disagreeing.

Actually, no. It doesn't make  my opinion of it more significant. It makes me tired of going to the Bioware forums five months after the game came out and there's still all this annoying complaining.

Then go somewhere else. No one is forcing you to be here and as long as they follow the BSN rules, they're free to express their opinion wether you're tired of it or not.

Modifié par dheer, 14 août 2011 - 08:35 .

[Dave of Canada]

Zoikster wrote...

And exactly what was so imposing about DA:O I'd love to be enlightened.

You seem deadset on viewing Origins as perfect and to be offended, I don't think you could be enlightened if Laidlaw personally came in here and describe what he felt needed to be fixed. It's been stated quite a few times on these forums what he wanted to accomplish and change from Origins.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 14 août 2011 - 08:36 .

[Dave of Canada]

shadowhawk233 wrote...

Then why don't the devs come out and say, "Yes we really screwed up on Dragon Age 2, we're sorry..."

Because some of them might not think that way. Fan opinion isn't the end all of opinions. They might like the direction, they might like the actual implementation (though from what's been said, they've admit it needs a bit more work).

People demanding for developers to apologize will only recieve a "We're sorry YOU didn't like the game".

[Atakuma]

shadowhawk233 wrote...

Then why don't the devs come out and say, "Yes we really screwed up on Dragon Age 2, we're sorry..."

Because they don't have to and it wouldn't help.

[Zoikster]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

And exactly what was so imposing about DA:O I'd love to be enlightened.

You seem deadset on viewing Origins as perfect and to be offended, I don't think you could be enlightened if Laidlaw personally came in here and describe what he felt needed to be fixed. It's been stated quite a few times on these forums what he wanted to accomplish and change from Origins.

No reason to get all nasty, either answer the question or don't. I never said it was perfect. I'm not anymore deadset in saying Origins is perfect as the lot of you would like to pretend DA 2 is. Simply saying others have prouncounded what is imposing in DA:O doesn't quite work.

Modifié par Zoikster, 14 août 2011 - 08:39 .

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Monica21 wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...
Actually, no. It doesn't make  my opinion of it more significant. It makes me tired of going to the Bioware forums five months after the game came out and there's still all this annoying complaining.

I never spend this much energy griping about stuff I don't like. I hated Venetica. I never bother to go whine on their forums. Instead, I play another game and move on.

I also don't sit around waiting for the Devs of the game to say something so I can deliberately take it the wrong way and call him out like I'm Anderson effing Cooper.

Well, I literally (like, an hour and a half ago) just finished my first play-through of DA2 and I was disappointed. I'm not going to keep from stating my opinion on the game because it annoys you and because the game is five months old. I'm pretty sure there's no time limit on when players get to stop expressing their opinion.

If people are "whining" it's because we see something that wasn't broken but needed a bit of refinement. We saw potential in storylines and it wasn't realized, and we saw bad paraphrases and lazy writing. If people are here expressing an opinion that you don't share it's because we still like the franchise and want the potential of it to be fully realized.

I dont think anyone is discouraging people from expressing what they liked or disliked, I think what some people are a bit weary of is how every other thread is trying to take various people to task over the dissapointment that was Dragon Age 2.

While there is no denying that the majority of Forum goers seem to be dissapointed with it, there does seem to be two camps of people expressing their displeasure.

There are people like your self who express very well thought out view points and who offer constructive feedback, and then there are people like the OP here who bulldozes in and basically insults anyone who dares to disagree with their opinion because they are angry that they plumbed money into the game.

While I can understand both frustrations I think some people on these forums who are more regular than even me are just a bit weary of the circular arguments that come up every time some one does a DA  and DA 2 thread.  While I agree there needs to be constant feedback from the Fans of Origins (I am one) there is a 100+ page constructive critique thread and a bunch of others and some people take it on them selves to simply try and funnel off those kind of debates so they dont happen in every thread (which seems to be the norm).  Now I am in no way saying that this is what you were attempting, but that is why some people respond the way they do to such debates.