61 réponses à ce sujet

[Funny_chan]

harkness72 wrote...

 I know this has been discussed many times, but here goes:

* Both Flemeth and Andraste were magi (possibly in Andraste's case)

Here's the description for the companion gift "The Search for the True Prophet":

This
tattered tome explores the possibility that Andraste was a powerful
mage, not the Maker's Chosen. It seems this book was saved from a fire
at some point.

harkness72 wrote...
* Both characters were betrayed by their husbands
* Both characters supposedly led and were defeated by great armies
*
Finally, the clincher, Marethari mentions a debt she owes
to Asha'bellanar. Andraste freed the elven slaves, so surely the modern
day elves would owe her a debt?

Also, Flemeth shapeshifts into a High Dragon, that's the reason  the people of Haven thought that the High Dragon was Andraste.

Another possible clue is that Old Gods (dragons) are known for singing beautifully,  same as Andraste.

[Masako52]

I've always liked this theory myself. I'm hoping for DA3 with Flemeth being the ultimate baddie, who is actually Andraste. It is a little hard to justify past "it would be cool" though.

I'm Team Andraste-Was-A-Mage and There-is-no-actual-Maker. Plus I'm just dying to f*ck with the Chantry. lol

[Darth Wraith]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Good point. It's the concept of parallel myths, or the hero with 1000 faces. A specific archetype, a specific quality or aspect, but with different faces/facades based on culture, or intent.

As such, I suspect that the Maker is something other than the male father-figure the Chantry has made him out to be. He may be Fen'Harel with the "Maker" disguise.

Same with Flemeth...and being known as a shapeshifter may be a big neon hint for us to view her in that light.

Clearly I'm not the only one who've read Joseph Campbell.:happy: I absolutely agree with you concerning the Maker; I suspect that somewhere down the line in the Dragon Age series the Chantry is in for a crisis of faith when the true nature of that particular deity is revealed. There might not even be a "Maker" in the literal sense.

Masako52 wrote...

I'm Team Andraste-Was-A-Mage and There-is-no-actual-Maker. Plus I'm just dying to f*ck with the Chantry. lol

I like how you think, but I fear that Andraste being a mage would be a stretch. No matter how much historical revising and editing the Chantry got up to it would be hard to suppress the fact that Andraste could launch fireballs at people. Especially among the Tevinter Imperium a fact like that would be hard to erase.

Modifié par Darth Wraith, 17 août 2011 - 10:07 .

[whykikyouwhy]

The Maker is a piñata - something (or someone) is going to crack him open and a lot of tasty old(er) god candies will come pouring out. And much like children run around screaming when the piñata opens, so will the people of Thedas behave.

Only probably not in glee.

(And I was a big fan of Campbell's interview with Bill Moyers.)

[Darth Wraith]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

The Maker is a piñata - something (or someone) is going to crack him open and a lot of tasty old(er) god candies will come pouring out. And much like children run around screaming when the piñata opens, so will the people of Thedas behave.

Only probably not in glee.

(And I was a big fan of Campbell's interview with Bill Moyers.)

There might just be a touch of glee over in my little corner of the world, though. I'll try not to be malicious about it, but still. A certain Yoda-esque giggle might be heard.

[jlb524]

harkness72 wrote...
* Finally, the clincher, Marethari mentions a debt she owes to Asha'bellanar. Andraste freed the elven slaves, so surely the modern day elves would owe her a debt?

Until her Chantry re-enslaved them.

Nah, probably not.

[whykikyouwhy]

jlb524 wrote...

harkness72 wrote...
* Finally, the clincher, Marethari mentions a debt she owes to Asha'bellanar. Andraste freed the elven slaves, so surely the modern day elves would owe her a debt?

Until her Chantry re-enslaved them.

Nah, probably not.

If anything, were Flemeth actually Andraste, or vice versa (which I don't subscribe to, either way), the Witch of the Wilds would probably be working to undermine the Chantry.

Oooo...unless that's why she's planning the big party with the old(er) god piñata. She's going for the grand finale/epic crescendo/awesome reveal.

[jlb524]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
If anything, were Flemeth actually Andraste, or vice versa (which I don't subscribe to, either way), the Witch of the Wilds would probably be working to undermine the Chantry.

Indeed she isn't, as far as we know.

whykikyouwhy wrote...
Oooo...unless that's why she's planning the big party with the old(er) god piñata. She's going for the grand finale/epic crescendo/awesome reveal.

We only know that she wants Morrigan to have an Old God Baby.

We know that she also wants the Warden to kill her. 

[whykikyouwhy]

jlb524 wrote...

We only know that she wants Morrigan to have an Old God Baby.

We know that she also wants the Warden to kill her. 

The OGB may be the one holding the bat for the candy extraction.

As for killing - I think it may be part of the cycle of rebirth and evolution, for lack of a better word. Maybe she needed to be "reborn" in her phoenix-like glory. The amulet being taken to Sundermount was part insurance policy and perhaps part focusing of power. Sundermount being a hotbed of power, what better place to reform and be renewed into her armored glory?

Hmm. I feel the familiar tug of impending madness.

[jlb524]

The funny thing is that Morrigan continued to go through with her plan even after finding out all the bad stuff about her (the body snatching stuff). Oh wait, Morrigan is a genius, nvm XD

Flemeth's new soul was reborn at an alter dedicated to Mythal. Which I think is...important? It has to be.

Why send Marethari's clan there specifically?

[Zanallen]

She WANTED the Warden to kill her? Where did you get that? I just figured that she didn't trust Morrigan to not try and oust her and so set up a contingency plan.

[Aradace]

Darth Wraith wrote...

First of all, I think saying that Andraste was a mage is a bit of a stretch. .

Really? You do realize that there is a book in Orzamaar in Origins that argues that very point.  That she could have very well been a powerful mage.

[Zanallen]

Aradace wrote...

Really? You do realize that there is a book in Orzamaar in Origins that argues that very point.  That she could have very well been a powerful mage.

She certainly could have been, but a gift book that you can't even read isn't really evidence.

[jlb524]

Zanallen wrote...

She WANTED the Warden to kill her? Where did you get that? I just figured that she didn't trust Morrigan to not try and oust her and so set up a contingency plan.

"I have...an appointment to keep."

And her weak ass attempt at killing the Warden...come on...she could have pwned him/her if she wanted.

[Zanallen]

jlb524 wrote...

"I have...an appointment to keep."

And her weak ass attempt at killing the Warden...come on...she could have pwned him/her if she wanted.

But why? Why not flee? Why does she try and get the Warden to let her go? What would she gain from being killed and relying on Hawke to bring her back?

[Aradace]

Zanallen wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Really? You do realize that there is a book in Orzamaar in Origins that argues that very point.  That she could have very well been a powerful mage.

She certainly could have been, but a gift book that you can't even read isn't really evidence.

Ahhhh but it doesnt prove that she wasnt either or that it's a "stretch".  See what I did there?

[Zanallen]

Aradace wrote...

Ahhhh but it doesnt prove that she wasnt either or that it's a "stretch".  See what I did there?

True. Andraste could have been Oghren for all we really know.

[Aradace]

Zanallen wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Ahhhh but it doesnt prove that she wasnt either or that it's a "stretch".  See what I did there?

True. Andraste could have been Oghren for all we really know.

Could you imagine the hilarity that would ensue if that were the case?  And the inevitable forum riots

[whykikyouwhy]

Aradace wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Ahhhh but it doesnt prove that she wasnt either or that it's a "stretch".  See what I did there?

True. Andraste could have been Oghren for all we really know.

Could you imagine the hilarity that would ensue if that were the case?  And the inevitable forum riots

At least Andraste-Oghren could teach Thedas to appreciate a good drink. That's a plus.

[Zanallen]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Aradace wrote...
Could you imagine the hilarity that would ensue if that were the case?  And the inevitable forum riots

At least Andraste-Oghren could teach Thedas to appreciate a good drink. That's a plus.

Yes, it would be such a beautiful thing...

[jlb524]

Zanallen wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

"I have...an appointment to keep."

And her weak ass attempt at killing the Warden...come on...she could have pwned him/her if she wanted.

But why? Why not flee? Why does she try and get the Warden to let her go? What would she gain from being killed and relying on Hawke to bring her back?

I don't know...but it's obvious that's what she wants.  She wants to be reborn at Mythal's shrine. 

Modifié par jlb524, 17 août 2011 - 11:12 .

[jlb524]

Mash Mashington wrote...

I don't know if it has been discussed anywhere but why does she always make that *checking my hand watch* gesture?

She likes her wrist?

[Zanallen]

Mash Mashington wrote...

I don't know if it has been discussed anywhere but why does she always make that *checking my hand watch* gesture?

She has a magic, invisible wrist watch.

Modifié par Zanallen, 17 août 2011 - 11:27 .

[whykikyouwhy]

She's been to the future. She knows that portable timekeeping clockworks and conteaptions will abound. She probably lost hers in the last amulet transport.