21 réponses à ce sujet

[Birdman076]

So, I had a thought. What if a group was assembled to bring all the pre-1.69 modules up to spec and fix bugs, compile errors and issue that were never addressed from the time the module(s) were posted for download on the vault? They could be grouped, catagorized, reviewed, and summarized in one posting making them a bit easier to find on the vault. I'm not talking about a revamp where the group would change or add to, I'm mearly speaking in terms of 1.69 update, latest dmfi updates and/or CEP 2.xxx compatibility as well.

Any interest in such a thing?

[werelynx]

Well sure if you would do so. Some time ago I thought that couple modules would need not only repair, but also enhancing with CEP, 1.69 update, some other haks specific to the module and maybe NWNCQ tileset visual improvements. Not to mention new quests, more convo options and roleplay possibilities and all classes compatibility.
You can count on me when it comes to playtesting:P, maybe storywriting/conversations if you wish a non-native speaker.

Edit: 2 suggestions: don't do the modules that have no ending, like 1 part only; do the Penultima!!!

Modifié par werelynx, 15 août 2011 - 08:10 .

[SHOVA]

You are welcome to copy, modify and rerelease anything on the vault, as long as you have the original authors blessing. If you don't your opening yourself to a crap storm. I agree that some of the mods could benifit from this kind of project, but, I believe the original should remain just as they are now, as released. I disagree with werelynx, if your going to add new content, writing, quests, and the like then this isn't a compadibilty update anymore, its a new revision of others work. It will need to be labled as such.

[Birdman076]

I never said anything about changing anything, on the contrary my intent is to bring modules up to current spec for ease of use and fix any bugs, etc that may make it unplayable or game breaking, list them in one entry on the vault and link back to the original works, try to contact the original author, and cross my eyes and dot my tees so I don't end up employing any copyright lawyers who may be perving these boards.

[olivier leroux]

While I don't have what it takes to be part of such a project, I'd definitely encourage and applaud the effort as a player. It stands to reason that the originals would remain as they are now, especially when the authors are not around anymore. I take it the group would just provide an alternative fixed version (ideally with a link to the original's Vault page), and I see nothing wrong with that if the modules were broken by the patches and are currently unplayable.

Incidentally, jml recently uploaded a fixed version of "Bone Kenning I" after I offered it to him. The script that fixed the teleportation feature was provided by neclon in the module's comment section but the players still had to apply it with the toolset themselves, which prevented jml (and probably other Mac users who don't have access to the toolset) to play the module in the way it was meant to be played before the patches. So Birdman's suggestion sounds like a great idea to me.

Modifié par olivier leroux, 15 août 2011 - 11:13 .

[Shadooow]

If you really want to do this you should consider to update them onto my unofficial patch. 1.69 havent solved almost anything.
EDIT: Hmm except that it wouldnt be needed actually. My patch is client-side, those who install it gains its benefits to all single player modules. So nevermind

Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 16 août 2011 - 05:42 .

[Calgacus]

Birdman076,
There are many mods I'd try out if they were updated as you propose. I might be able to help occasionally too but can't promise any serious commitments.

[jmlzemaggo]

A fine idea, and it has been done already... but in a funny way. 
Let me introduce you to our local artist here... since we have one:
Mr. Ken La Mella!
He "moved" an already favourite of mine 'vampire' module, Vampire – Heaven Defied, by Chojin, to modern age as you said, through his "own" 'Court of Night'...
(Along with a few more, including another copy & paste of one of the AL serie by Alazander)

I had a blast when playing it!
Just to say how much that "Rejuvenation" idea is quite a good one. I experienced it: that works!

Until our local Inspector Clouseau  found out it was nothing but an updated 100% copy & paste of the original (Vampire – Heaven Defied, by Chojin)
A forgery, as the toolset easily proves it. 
Everything was the same, including the original bugs even! Only modernised with the latest mods. 
Great! Again, it was wonderful! And I'm certain Ken didn't see any wrong by doing so. Actually? He still doesn't... 
On the contrary, I liked the new one maybe more than the first myself, at playing point. 

Only... and these are the matters I wanna mention about this "Rejuvenation Project": 

- Mandatory to give the proper credit to the only one real author of the module, making crystal clear it's not a creation, but a "rejuvenation", with the true name of the true author in the author box on the vault page, what Ken... forgot... 
- Make sure, through some decent testing, the newest version doesn't come with more bugs than the original one, because of that unethical and "barbarian" translation. What Ken... forgot as well... 
- Never write it's your story 100%. What Ken... 

If you ever choose an old module which truly deserves such a fine "rejuvenation", and are not afraid of the work to be done, I could playtest it, eventually. 

What I'm, also, saying is, beside the "creation ownership" part, Ken accomplished an amazing "rejuvenation" job around a few modules, which should be considered by anyone interested in such a "Rejuvenation Project", just by looking at the humongous list of haks required to play his latest 'Gauntlgrym' for instance. 
This is one of the nicest list of the most amazing NWN mods around. 

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 16 août 2011 - 12:43 .

[Androrc]

This brings me to a question: what is considered in the community permissible in regards to use of other modules?

For instance, is including one of the PnP conversions of the short adventures that were on WotC's in your own module considered ok (with full credit given, of course)?

[werelynx]

I have seen plenty of pnp conversions on the vault, that gave full credit and have seen no copyright problems.
Regarding the use of modules: There should be some copyright terms in the game licence. I'm not sure, but if I recall correctly it was allowed to use anything created in the toolset(given proper credit).

[SHOVA]

werelynx wrote...

I have seen plenty of pnp conversions on the vault, that gave full credit and have seen no copyright problems.
Regarding the use of modules: There should be some copyright terms in the game licence. I'm not sure, but if I recall correctly it was allowed to use anything created in the toolset(given proper credit).

PnP conversions are fine, as they known to be the NWN authors creative vision of it. Usualy they also credit the Original author. Most Community members would not allow someone to release a conversion without the credit.

What I previously posted was in responce to this:

werelynx wrote...

Not to mention new quests, more convo options and roleplay possibilities and all classes compatibility.

Now if you do that to a PnP conversion, I doubt anyone will have a problem with it. If you were to do that with a mod like A Dance with Rogues, well I am sure Valine would have a problem with it, especialy if it was done without her knowledge. I can imagine Fester Pot would not want you to make Almraiven a Ranger mod either. the point is, there is custom NWN art that has been done, that many of our community enjoy, but once you change it to be more current, or add new CC like CEP, or add new quests or whatever, it is no longer the original authors work. It is your additions. making new content for NWN is a good thing, rewriting the work previously done by our community is a can of worms. It will either be loved or hated, but I believe your better off making your own stuff, than redoing other peoples hard work.

[Birdman076]

SHOVA wrote...

werelynx wrote...

I have seen plenty of pnp conversions on the vault, that gave full credit and have seen no copyright problems.
Regarding the use of modules: There should be some copyright terms in the game licence. I'm not sure, but if I recall correctly it was allowed to use anything created in the toolset(given proper credit).

PnP conversions are fine, as they known to be the NWN authors creative vision of it. Usualy they also credit the Original author. Most Community members would not allow someone to release a conversion without the credit.

What I previously posted was in responce to this:

werelynx wrote...

Not to mention new quests, more convo options and roleplay possibilities and all classes compatibility.

Now if you do that to a PnP conversion, I doubt anyone will have a problem with it. If you were to do that with a mod like A Dance with Rogues, well I am sure Valine would have a problem with it, especialy if it was done without her knowledge. I can imagine Fester Pot would not want you to make Almraiven a Ranger mod either. the point is, there is custom NWN art that has been done, that many of our community enjoy, but once you change it to be more current, or add new CC like CEP, or add new quests or whatever, it is no longer the original authors work. It is your additions. making new content for NWN is a good thing, rewriting the work previously done by our community is a can of worms. It will either be loved or hated, but I believe your better off making your own stuff, than redoing other peoples hard work.

You are really missing the point again so let me explain using an example this time so maybe its understood.

Lets say Random Mod 1 uses CEP 1.52 which isn't compatible with patch 1.69. It's virtually unplayable unless of course I downgrade my NWN to play it, then upgrade to play everything else.

So to rejuvenate it we simply install CEP 2.4 and address issues if any from the upgrade from CEP 1.52.

So where are we adding new content? Quests? or Whatever?

No one but you is talking about redoing someone elses hard work, on the contrary the post was meant as an inquiry to the interest in making the work available when it  was updated past and not maintained for whatever reasons. I'm more then sure any author would have no qualms about his/her work being made playable to the masses once again and if they happened to have issue then thier work remains unchanged and unplayable.

[SHOVA]

again, I was responding to Werelynx, I even quoted him, to avoid confusion.
I get that your not interested in adding new content other than 1.69, and CEP2.4 Birdman, however some of the issue I brought up still apply. CEP2.4, is not flick a switch compatible with CEP1.52. The 2. CEP team was not able to even keep the same 2da entries as the CEP 1 team. Changing it out, will change the mod. it will add new content. it may not be what the original author wanted. they may take offence to it being done to their work. They may infact not want the CEP2 added to their work, there are some who do not like the direction the CEP2 team has taken it. CEP 2 has more content than CEP1, so it is a instance of adding new content to a Mod. If your adding CEP2, but not using the new content, then why change it to begin with? whats the point, just to add more haks?

You of course are free to do what you want. I think its a bad Idea to change someone elses work, just to make it current with the latest CEP, when the Latest CEP, is not the final version. let alone bug free.

As a side note there is a compadibility hak for CEP1.52 and 1.69 on the vault now.
http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=7505

[werelynx]

Sorry to have caused so much stir. It was not my intention. I only said it crossed my mind. Updating ADWR with new quests is indeed insane idea, as it already has plenty of them, and what's more important, Valine is still active community member.
Updating very, very old modules should be fine as they are no longer cared for. It has been done before. Just see how many versions of Spires of Ravenloft are out there. Let me quote BSG: "All this has happened before, and it will happen again".
Besides isn't anything released by authors "for community"? Of course it should be clear that it is a "revision" of a module and author should be specified. If anyone(of the authors) complained it could always be removed. Again wouldn't most authors be happy that their little modules are still played and cared for?

Aside from adding new things:
Compatibility hak should work fine and should eliminate the bugs in 1.52 and earlier modules and the idea of uploading already "patched" modules is good methinks. Not everyone knows how to include new hak or even has the willing to do so much "work" before playing.

Sorry if I offend anyones feelings or moral beliefs.

[Androrc]

SHOVA wrote...

PnP conversions are fine, as they known to be the NWN authors creative vision of it. Usualy they also credit the Original author. Most Community members would not allow someone to release a conversion without the credit.

What I meant was, for instance: I have Dungeon issue #92, and I liked the adventure "The Swarm" that is included within it. There is already a NWN module conversion of such adventure in the Vault, and I would like to use the areas from that conversion to include the adventure in my module. Is that ok?

[SHOVA]

Androrc, there is nothing that should keep you from doing that. There is no list of mods or builders who can do what. I posted my responces in requard to 2 things, one Birdman who originaly posted "all pre 1.69 modules". and Werelynx, who posted "adding quests and dialog." In my opinion, adding new content to existing mods, and then re-uploading them is fine, as long as A, you get the original authors blessing, B give proper credit to the original author, and C keep in the same spirit of the original intent. C, takes into account the idea of changing a mod, like A Dance With Rogues, and making it a druid mod or whatever. (I used this as an example because it is a pre 1.69 mod.) If you a re-making a mod from scratch, there should not be a problem. if you are using previous mods as an addition, then Please follow A, B, and C. its just good manners.

[Androrc]

Thanks for the explanation. The thing is that I don't want to use areas from the PnP conversion module(s) and have problems later on with accusations by community members.

B and C are always possible, but the problem with A is that too often authors have left no form to contact them (aren't registered at the Vault, or didn't put an email in their Vault profile).

[jmlzemaggo]

Freedom is the rule, and good manners the human way to access it. Try to contact the authors, get their approval if you're improbably lucky, or fail to reach them, do what ever you feel like doing, then upload it, but under two conditions:
- Full credits to the rightful creator, with a nice and respectful link to the original one.
- Making sure the module you're finally offering works!!! before uploading it, with no stopping bugs, as just foolishly copying scripts from someone else without his spirit won't work 99,99% of the time. 
There is another rule I almost forgot: having fun...  

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 19 août 2011 - 08:15 .

[werelynx]

Gotta agree with jml

[Bluebomber4evr]

I've been working on a few "rejuvenations" myself, and agree with jml as well. Part of the problem is that at this late date many of the module creators are no longer part of the community and/or are not reachable through their listed contact information on the Vault...if they even still have contact info available after the Vault made changes to its systems. Many of the authors I've tried to contact either don't respond or my email is bounced back as undeliverable. In any event, the original module's author will be properly credited once I release a "rejuvenation" of their work.

[werelynx]

needs playtesting?

[Bluebomber4evr]

Nothing that's ready yet, unfortunately. But I'll post on these forums when they're ready for it.