19 réponses à ce sujet

[Cypher0020]

I love ME1 and ME2. But I hate having to replay every time I want to import. Is it worth it to download Genesis for the 360?

For instance... I want to play as a Maleshep that romanced Ash, but hate having to go through the whole game, so will using Genesis help at all or no?

[BentOrgy]

I personally loathe the fact that Genesis is even on the 360. To me it was like Bioware saying,

"Oh yeah, even though you guys can experience the WHOLE story, now you don't have to! Who needs context and a reason to give a damn about what happens? Amirite?"

So, from my point of view, no, its not; You miss out on all the smaller, more intimate factors that carry over through all three games, you also miss out on things like Feros, most of Noveria, and a cubic-butt-load of other perks,

[Cypher0020]

Ah got it......

The comic skips PLOT planets like Feros? WTF?

[BentOrgy]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Ah got it......

The comic skips PLOT planets like Feros? WTF?

Yush, and its just as stupid as it sounds; Cipher, Thorian, Shiala, poof! Gone.

So it might suck, having to run through the entire game again (God knows I did it enough, especially when I forgot to do the Eletania vision, that was a pain.) but in the end, I think its WAY worth it, especially when the alternative is a horribly put together, altogether shallow and meaningless comic.

/Rant.

[Raven4030]

BentOrgy wrote...

I personally loathe the fact that Genesis is even on the 360. To me it was like Bioware saying,

"Oh yeah, even though you guys can experience the WHOLE story, now you don't have to! Who needs context and a reason to give a damn about what happens? Amirite?"

So, from my point of view, no, its not; You miss out on all the smaller, more intimate factors that carry over through all three games, you also miss out on things like Feros, most of Noveria, and a cubic-butt-load of other perks,

I always thought of it as a matter of "Hey guys, did you think of a kind of Shepard you wanted to import but don't feel like spending all the hours building him by playing ME1? Don't have to anymore!"

That being said, when I want a new Shepard I run him/her through ME1 first anyway, then again when I'm starting "a new story" it always feels wrong to me to pick it up in the middle instead of starting over from the beginning.

[eternalnightmare13]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Ah got it......

The comic skips PLOT planets like Feros? WTF?

Feros?! Feros?! Don't talk about Feros!  The stupid dlc doesn't even mention the geth once.  That's right! The GETH.
Never mentioned! At all! Ever!  

[toastye weasel]

whats the point of having Genesis for 360 its skips all the good bits

[RAF1940]

Genesis sucks.

[BentOrgy]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Cypher0020 wrote...

Ah got it......

The comic skips PLOT planets like Feros? WTF?

Feros?! Feros?! Don't talk about Feros!  The stupid dlc doesn't even mention the geth once.  That's right! The GETH.
Never mentioned! At all! Ever!  

Geth?! Geth?! What are Geth?! We all know the quarians we ousted by irate microwave ovens for inadequate dental plans, and Sovereign stormed the Citadel with Saren and the Sundance Kid! Why would you even mention something that doesn't exist?!

But seriously; How the hell did they drop the ball on that one? Rather, how could they? The Geth were primary antagonists for crying out loud, and they were still kicking in ME2, and are going to be back in ME3.

Bioware needs to put down the party pants, and cram the thinking cap back on.

[Raven4030]

BentOrgy wrote...

But seriously; How the hell did they drop the ball on that one? Rather, how could they? The Geth were primary antagonists for crying out loud, and they were still kicking in ME2, and are going to be back in ME3.

1) It's a, if I recall, <$5 DLC that summarizes a game that costs at the very least $20 to buy new (wouldn't be too surprised if it was still at full price TBH)

2) The only people who give a s*** about ME1s story are:
People who enjoyed ME1
People who couldn't play ME1 but read the codex to see what they missed.

3) The only reason it exists in the first place is so that you can make the 'big' decisions without having to spend another 30+ hours (for me, the average is closer to 40) replaying the first game. Or so those who own a PS3 but don't have a computer that can run ME1 or otherwise don't want to buy it.

In short, putting the extra effort into telling what is honestly a long story anyway (15 minutes probably pushes the attention span of a large share of the market) just isn't worth it to appease those who already know the story by heart by now anyway.

TL;DR version: You're mad because they wouldn't retell the story you know by heart for under $5. Get over it.

Modifié par Raven4030, 16 août 2011 - 03:28 .

[Inutaisho7996]

BentOrgy wrote...

I personally loathe the fact that Genesis is even on the 360. To me it was like Bioware saying,

"Oh yeah, even though you guys can experience the WHOLE story, now you don't have to! Who needs context and a reason to give a damn about what happens? Amirite?"

So, from my point of view, no, its not; You miss out on all the smaller, more intimate factors that carry over through all three games, you also miss out on things like Feros, most of Noveria, and a cubic-butt-load of other perks,

Several people requested that BioWare release Genesis on the 360 and PC...so they did.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Honestly TC, if you have access to a flash drive you can mod your file using gibbs. This skips having to play ME1 for the umpteenth time but allows you to decide what choices will be available in your ME2 file. Barring that, check out GameFAQs.com for a list on what carries over and you can speed rush ME1.

[BentOrgy]

Raven4030 wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

But seriously; How the hell did they drop the ball on that one? Rather, how could they? The Geth were primary antagonists for crying out loud, and they were still kicking in ME2, and are going to be back in ME3.

1) It's a, if I recall, <$5 DLC that summarizes a game that costs at the very least $20 to buy new (wouldn't be too surprised if it was still at full price TBH)

2) The only people who give a s*** about ME1s story are:
People who enjoyed ME1
People who couldn't play ME1 but read the codex to see what they missed.

3) The only reason it exists in the first place is so that you can make the 'big' decisions without having to spend another 30+ hours (for me, the average is closer to 40) replaying the first game. Or so those who own a PS3 but don't have a computer that can run ME1 or otherwise don't want to buy it.

In short, putting the extra effort into telling what is honestly a long story anyway (15 minutes probably pushes the attention span of a large share of the market) just isn't worth it to appease those who already know the story by heart by now anyway.

TL;DR version: You're mad because they wouldn't retell the story you know by heart for under $5. Get over it.

... I never said I was mad, I am however, confused as hell, and rightly so.

I'm also confused as hell as to why you seem to be on a mission to shoot down my posts. Defend or posture how you want, but that's how its shaping up to me.

1) It was initially created for the PS3 release of the game, which means they had more than enough time and money to make it actually feel like a summary, rather than a cheap attempt that was being made on a bus roof going 80 miles an hour while the author was on fire. So it being five dollars really shouldn't be an issue, because at the time of its developement, it wasn't penned as DLC. It was created for those who didn't have accsess to ME1's story, therefore, it should actually TELL ME1/s story. I never asked for it to include every sidequest and diologue option; but skipping PLOT planets, and PLOT races like the Geth are a no-no. Its basic storytelling.

2) And your point is? These are the people that should be catered to, not the droves of people who evidently think the the "2" in "Mass Effect 2" means nothing. Its a bloody sequel, would you watch Star Wars Episode Six without seeing the others? Sure, you could, but it'd be loony to do so, 'cause it wouldn't make sense. Mass Effect is no different. Plenty of Game frachises have told multi-part stories without feeling the need to sacrifice itself for the sake of "New commers" Metal Gear Solid is a shining example.

3) No, and yes. It wasn't created for your first reason (As far as we're aware.), and as for your second; that's exactly my point. As stated above, it was created for the expressed purpose of engaging those people without access to Mass Effect 1, into its story. It would have taken them, what? Another week? To fill in the gaping holes that were blown into Genesis.

And it is worth the effort, if you actually give a damn about the story you are trying to tell, and to the new fans you are trying to pull in. It wouldn't have been an economical crisis for Bioware to crunch some extra hours/days to actually do justice to a story THEY wrote, which is what it sounds like you think it could have been. They're not hurting for money, not to the degree where this would have been a problem, especially when they have a behemoth company like EA backing them up.

And really? If 15 minutes is too much, why the hell are they playing RPG's? We spend that much time rifiling through our inventories trying to sort out what goes with who. You want to defend Bioware's halfhearted attempt? Be my guest, but there are fistfulls of poeple who loathe it, and with good reason; if there weren't any critiques and or critisisms, then we would never have games like Mass Effect in the first place.

"Get over it." Edgy, but silly, because its not like I'm losing sleep over this. When I smell bull****, I say it stinks.

"It stinks."

Modifié par BentOrgy, 16 août 2011 - 04:17 .

[BentOrgy]

Doublies, move along....

Modifié par BentOrgy, 16 août 2011 - 04:15 .

[Raven4030]

I just like to argue, and you just happen to most frequently post things I think are wrong. Plus: waaaaay too much free time on my hands.

Now, rather than write another wall o' text, I'll just boil down the crux of my argument as follows:

It seems like you're getting upset because they didn't do a faithful retelling of ME1, a story you know by heart. You aren't entitled to have that story retold to you, the fact that they even went through the effort of letting you have a DLC to alter some save variables is more effort than most put in (to use your MGS example: the only effort they put into telling the story of the past games is a block of text). And yes, you are acting entitled, you and others are ranting over plot points that a DLC with no real consequences attached to it missed, plot points that those that care can easily fill in.

And to be clear, I'm not defending Genesis, I'm attacking the sense of entitlement that so many gamers seem to carry. It's frustrating when a "fan" pitches a fit every time a developer does something that doesn't cater to their little group.

Also, with regards to your response to my 15 minutes thing: If you're spending 15 minutes fiddling with inventory screens and figuring out the optimal build for your squad instead of, you know, playing the game, I would call that a flaw.

[BentOrgy]

Damn it. Its like I'm cursed over here.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 16 août 2011 - 08:27 .

[BentOrgy]

BentOrgy wrote...

Raven4030 wrote...

I just like to argue, and you just happen to most frequently post things I think are wrong. Plus: waaaaay too much free time on my hands.

Now, rather than write another wall o' text, I'll just boil down the crux of my argument as follows:

It seems like you're getting upset because they didn't do a faithful retelling of ME1, a story you know by heart. You aren't entitled to have that story retold to you, the fact that they even went through the effort of letting you have a DLC to alter some save variables is more effort than most put in (to use your MGS example: the only effort they put into telling the story of the past games is a block of text). And yes, you are acting entitled, you and others are ranting over plot points that a DLC with no real consequences attached to it missed, plot points that those that care can easily fill in.

And to be clear, I'm not defending Genesis, I'm attacking the sense of entitlement that so many gamers seem to carry. It's frustrating when a "fan" pitches a fit every time a developer does something that doesn't cater to their little group.

Also, with regards to your response to my 15 minutes thing: If you're spending 15 minutes fiddling with inventory screens and figuring out the optimal build for your squad instead of, you know, playing the game, I would call that a flaw.

Last time I checked, critiques were a welcome part of art, and if not welcome, then certainly required. Otherwise the art stagnates, and ultimately we'd still be playing games like Duke Nukem the First. We are "Entitled" to say what we believe would make the art better, and here we just happen to be saying that Genisis could have GREATLY benifited from telling, at the very least, ALL the major plot points in the game. Which it didn't, hence this post. We are "Entitled" to faithful retelling of what ACTUALLY happened in the game, otherwise, what the hell was the point? They left out Feros, which means the left out the Cipher. That alone throws the chain of events out the window. How did we discover the Mu Relay? How did Saren? Etc.

If this was a dinky Arcade game, then continuity wouldn't matter, hell, a story wouldn't matter. But, quite obviously, this isn't an Arcade game, it is (was) an RPG, with the core staff telling us how much they worked into the title's story and setting. When a derivative of said title fails to properly potray the story and setting, of course you're going to be on the receiving end of a lot of bad blood. Its like you were asking for it.

I would hardly call those who believe Bioware is slipping in their narratives a "Little group." The recent string comments regarding the company's adventures, (Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Arrival, Gensis.) have been negative. This means they're doing something wrong. And before you say anything, yes, when the broad majority of your fans say its wrong, guess what, it is. Who do you think you're building the game for? The fans. Without them, your games would have no audience, and therefore, no profit. Its simple.

And while you would call it a flaw, many would call it normal. It depends on the genre of the game. Its not black and white, like you're suggesting. You remind a lot of that hack "Smudboy." in that regard.

And as if you honestly think that Metal Gear's narrative was relegated to just "a block of text." Then you;

• Seriously need to replay the games.
• Need to stop talking about the subject until you do. Because;
• Metal Gear's story encompasses over 50 ingame years, every one of them brilliantly linked through flashbacks, diolouge, and 30 minute expertly blocked cutscenes. A story that is grossly passed over by today's gamers, and one of the few that mad me cry, yeah, I said it, cry. Because of how well built and executed it was. Call me a fanboy, or some other meaningless drivel to lower either mine, or Metal Gear's stance in this debate. but its my opinion that many games (Especially titles like Mass Effect, who pride themselves on the emotion they bring.) could learn from Kojima-san and co. It was the first series that made me realize the power and potential that games have.

With that out of the way, I can sum this up nicely:

Do it right , or don't do it at all.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 16 août 2011 - 08:26 .

[Raven4030]

I won't dispute the right to critique art. But there is a fine line between being critical and nitpicking. There are lots of story elements that you could critique and I'd be fine with. The thing is, Genesis wasn't really a story element, it was just something thrown together so that people could set certain variables regarding ME1 without having to play through the entire game.

And when I said you're acting entitled. I mean it seems like you're saying you're entitled to Bioware putting out masterpieces every single time they want to release anything. It doesn't matter what it was intended to be, it still has to be perfect.

My comment about blocks of text has to do with how they told the story of the previous games in later sequels. The story related to the games themselves were expert examples of storytelling... in cinema. However, we can save a debate over whether or not MGS is an example of good or bad video game story telling for PMs.

Modifié par Raven4030, 16 août 2011 - 10:55 .

[BentOrgy]

Raven4030 wrote...

I won't dispute the right to critique art. But there is a fine line between being critical and nitpicking. There are lots of story elements that you could critique and I'd be fine with. The thing is, Genesis wasn't really a story element, it was just something thrown together so that people could set certain variables regarding ME1 without having to play through the entire game.

And when I said you're acting entitled. I mean it seems like you're saying you're entitled to Bioware putting out masterpieces every single time they want to release anything. It doesn't matter what it was intended to be, it still has to be perfect.

My comment about blocks of text has to do with how they told the story of the previous games in later sequels. The story related to the games themselves were expert examples of storytelling... in cinema. However, we can save a debate over whether or not MGS is an example of good or bad video game story telling for PMs.

I'm going to be frank, and say that when I spied that you'd replied, (Rhymes, teehee.) I was expecting a wall of flames and arrogant rambling about how I'm a douchebag and need to go cut myself.

One of the few times in history that I'm thankful I was proven wrong.

Moving on; I disagree completely that Gensis wasn't a story element; considering the fact that its very existence was to provide story and background information to new players. You say that its basically an artsy variable generator, its not. It wasn't designed for those with access to ME1 to be lazy, it was designed for those without access; in other words, those who really need to get a handle on the story, because its a sequel. Couple that fact with the blatant void of information, or misleading information (Vigil being "Just" a "Prothean Databank.")  and you arrive at where we are; scores of discontent and/or confused fans that are clamoring for something that actually deserves the Bioware name.

I never expect anything to be perfect, least of all on the first shot. Hell, I'm still forgiving Lionhead over and over for all their mediocrity. But when something fails to accomplish its sole purpose, accomplish it in a way that actually justifies its production, then yes, I, along with others, will say something. And in my case, say something coherent and progressive that can potentially better the overall experience. That's why we have Q&A and gametesters, its called "Quality Control."

If Genisis were to get the editing it sorely needs, I'd let it go. (I in no way believe that will happen; its been too long, and if Arrival hasn't been fixed, some five minute virtual comic sure as hell won't.) But until then, when the issue is brought up, I'll be, understandably, ready to pitch in my opinion.

Interesting you bring up cinema, considering that's what Kojima-san was majoring in, until his senior year when he decided to break into gaming.

[Raven4030]

It seems we've reached the point where neither of us have anything more to say, so we can just leave it at that.

And regarding Mr. Kojima's qualifications, I'm somehow not surprised his focus was originally in cinema. But again, an argument about whether or not MGS is a good example of story telling in video games is best reserved for PMs or some other means.