235 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Morroian wrote...

Yep, anyone who expects that from a public company is in la la land. You know it occurs to me that CDP have yet to release the console version of TW2, maybe the console port is clunky and whatever overhaul they are doing is in fact to make it work better on the consoles with the side benefit of improving the PC version.

That may all be true but it is brilliant marketing (esp if so) because it turns a liability into a PR bonus with the added benefit of making their competitors look like chumps.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Yep, anyone who expects that from a public company is in la la land. You know it occurs to me that CDP have yet to release the console version of TW2, maybe the console port is clunky and whatever overhaul they are doing is in fact to make it work better on the consoles with the side benefit of improving the PC version.

That may all be true but it is brilliant marketing (esp if so) because it turns a liability into a PR bonus with the added benefit of making their competitors look like chumps.

-Polaris

Indeed, CDP handles things smartly (minus the forum fiasco). For that alone, I respect them. Not for a non-existent altriusm.

[AtreiyaN7]

Uzzy wrote...

Well, out of their parent company that has enough money to put together a moon shot, perhaps. Or perhaps rather then going full speed ahead with DA3 so early, they could work on DA2 some more.

Should I feel sorry that Bioware chose to engage in multiple projects and now don't have the ability to give proper support to their existing games? Really?

Hmm, how many ways can one say that it's not common (business) sense to entirely rework an old game and put the sequel on a backburner...okay, not that many. In any case, please list how many mainstream companies have done what CDP has done and how many games have gone through such extensive overhauls. Can you name a whole bunch of them? I doubt it. Patches for NWN, etc. don't exactly qualify as being as extensive as the kinds of changes made to TW. It was a different time back then (ca. NWN), and I'm pretty sure BW didn't have the kinds of expenses/issues back then that they do now. Who's going to pay the VAs to do more work, eh? Who's going to the pay for the new animations and graphics? Are you going to bankroll it with your "goodwill"?

I think it's safe to say that most companies don't generate dollars by indulging people who demand the kinds of things that some people in this thread want. Again, what you consider "proper support" is something that seems flat-out unrealistic for most companies. I certainly don't want your sympathy for BW; I'm just pointing out the realities of the situation, which you don't seem to want to accept.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 18 août 2011 - 02:55 .

[Emperor Mars]

 Why?

I would prefer Bioware work on the next in the series and make it great, than continue to work on a game that I (and m many others) consider to be decent.

[Morroian]

IanPolaris wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Yep, anyone who expects that from a public company is in la la land. You know it occurs to me that CDP have yet to release the console version of TW2, maybe the console port is clunky and whatever overhaul they are doing is in fact to make it work better on the consoles with the side benefit of improving the PC version.

That may all be true but it is brilliant marketing (esp if so) because it turns a liability into a PR bonus with the added benefit of making their competitors look like chumps.

Sure but they shouldn't then be hailed as the altruists they are. Plus they can do stuff like that because they aren't constrained by stockholder and stock exchange rules like others.

Modifié par Morroian, 18 août 2011 - 02:36 .

[Ariella]

Morroian wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Yep, anyone who expects that from a public company is in la la land. You know it occurs to me that CDP have yet to release the console version of TW2, maybe the console port is clunky and whatever overhaul they are doing is in fact to make it work better on the consoles with the side benefit of improving the PC version.

That may all be true but it is brilliant marketing (esp if so) because it turns a liability into a PR bonus with the added benefit of making their competitors look like chumps.

Sure but they shouldn't then be hailed as the altruists they are. Plus they can do stuff like that because they aren't constrained by stockholder and stock exchange rules like others.

I doubt altruism has any part in it, but as I said, they're just giving themselves rope for the time when they aren't the "little scappy Polish company" anymore, and can't pull things like this out of their rear end.

[Realmzmaster]

I would rather money be spent on making an expansion, dlc and DA3 than trying to patch up DA2 considering that it would have to be done across all three platforms.

Now some forum mates are saying that CDprojectk is doing it with Witcher 2. The difference is that CDProjectK only has to do it for the PC release. The console release is not due until November. So all the improvements can make their way to the console with no problem.
Not the same with DA2 which is already released..

Also if CDProjectK is going to include the new stuff in the console release they would have to release it to the PC gamers. It also would create a lot of ill will if CDProjectK charge the PC gamers for content that the console gamers would get automatically in the base price.

[Bryy_Miller]

Why do people bother comparing BioWare to CDP? That's like comparing Team Meat to Valve, or HBO to the CW. There are very clear and obvious differences between the two.

[Dubya75]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Why do people bother comparing BioWare to CDP? That's like comparing Team Meat to Valve, or HBO to the CW. There are very clear and obvious differences between the two.

Maybe so, but from a consumer standpoint there are certain expectations and thing we look for. When company A does it, but company B (from whom we expect it) does not, then it is only natural to compare.

[SkittlesKat96]

The Witcher 2 is PC exclusive so I'd imagine it would be completely different.

Trust me, a lot of companies like Bioware and Valve have a hard time working with consoles if I recall...

[Gunderic]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Why do people bother comparing BioWare to CDP? That's like comparing Team Meat to Valve, or HBO to the CW. There are very clear and obvious differences between the two.

... Which one's Team Meat then?

[Persephone]

Mr.House wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Persephone wrote...
If only they did not feel the need to resort to immature jabs at Bioware, marketing tricks and rather obvious manipulation to gain that position,

I'll say it again.   if massive FREE DLC  to an already good game  = Manipulation, then  Please CDPR:  keep Manipulating me!

What massive free dlc? Troll and harpy dlc? Those where fun but not enough content to warrent a price, more so if you compare it to say OWB, LotSB and Legacy.

Having played the so called massive free DLC CDPR has done so far....if they are massive, then Legacy or LOTSB are gigantic.

[Wyndham711]

I'm having a hard time believing that on this planet there could exist a non-delusional person who honestly thinks that DA2 is a better, higher quality game than Witcher 2, or that BioWare in its current state is a more admirable developer than CD Project.

[Persephone]

Wyndham711 wrote...

I'm having a hard time believing that on this planet there could exist a non-delusional person who honestly thinks that DA2 is a better, higher quality game than Witcher 2, or that BioWare in its current state is a more admirable developer than CD Project.

Oh they exist. Plenty. Alive and well too.

[happy_daiz]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

The Witcher 2 is PC exclusive so I'd imagine it would be completely different.

Trust me, a lot of companies like Bioware and Valve have a hard time working with consoles if I recall...

I beg to differ; The Witcher 2 is coming out for 360 in Q1 2012.

How did I get sucked into this thread again? 

Modifié par happy_daiz, 18 août 2011 - 03:12 .

[Dubya75]

Wyndham711 wrote...

I'm having a hard time believing that on this planet there could exist a non-delusional person who honestly thinks that DA2 is a better, higher quality game than Witcher 2, or that BioWare in its current state is a more admirable developer than CD Project.

Let's not go there.
The size of the DLC in this discussion is irrelevant and only serves as a catalyst to start a war.
What is more relevant however is the fact that BioWare has so far given us nothing for free (not even those good-for-nothing item packs), the only attempt they've made at making the game better was to tweak the combat, but the concern MOST people have with the recycled areas and poor customizition options has been ignored.
Yes, Legacy was an AWESOME DLC, but I still want to do new playthroughs of the main game and i'm still having to deal with endlessly and shamelessly repeated maps.
My friends won't buy the game for this very reason. They would buy the game if these issues were addressed, and I would be a happy customer.
CDPR is going out of their way to ensure their customers are happy. If they can do it, BioWare can do it as well.
I don't really care about how much it costs to push out large patches and bla bla bla, all I care about is getting the impression that BioWare REALLY wants their customers to be happy with DA2.
Even if it comes down to paying for an Overhaul (which I'm sure my friends would pay for as well if it means ending up with an awesomely replayable game)... 

Modifié par Dubya75, 18 août 2011 - 02:01 .

[Yrkoon]

Persephone wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Persephone wrote...
If only they did not feel the need to resort to immature jabs at Bioware, marketing tricks and rather obvious manipulation to gain that position,

I'll say it again.   if massive FREE DLC  to an already good game  = Manipulation, then  Please CDPR:  keep Manipulating me!

What massive free dlc? Troll and harpy dlc? Those where fun but not enough content to warrent a price, more so if you compare it to say OWB, LotSB and Legacy.

Having played the so called massive free DLC CDPR has done so far....if they are massive, then Legacy or LOTSB are gigantic.

You've played  the yet to be released 2.0, have you?

Because that was what we were discussing. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 18 août 2011 - 03:19 .

[Il Divo]

Wyndham711 wrote...

I'm having a hard time believing that on this planet there could exist a non-delusional person who honestly thinks that DA2 is a better, higher quality game than Witcher 2, or that BioWare in its current state is a more admirable developer than CD Project.

People are allowed to have different opinions? This is news to me.

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Wyndham711 wrote...

I'm having a hard time believing that on this planet there could exist a non-delusional person who honestly thinks that DA2 is a better, higher quality game than Witcher 2, or that BioWare in its current state is a more admirable developer than CD Project.

Now TW 2 is a better game than DA 2 in many respects most vocal people seem agree.

CDPR are a admirable company most people agree.

But one bad game does not mean the end of Bioware as we knew them, just as one swallow does not a summer make, one poo does not a sewer make.

Modifié par Kothoses Rothenkisal, 18 août 2011 - 03:29 .

[Emperor Mars]

Wyndham711 wrote...

I'm having a hard time believing that on this planet there could exist a non-delusional person who honestly thinks that DA2 is a better, higher quality game than Witcher 2, or that BioWare in its current state is a more admirable developer than CD Project.

Considering biowares 16 year history of creating gigantic hit after gigantic hit...and CD projekt 17 year history of developing..one game which was fairly well recieved and another which was a hit...

I am still pretty sure that BioWare is an admirable developer, and I can say that without being delusional.

Modifié par Emperor Mars, 18 août 2011 - 03:47 .

[Wyndham711]

BioWare is admirable because of its legacy. Never did I claim it is not an admirable developer to some degree or another. And never did I forbid or deny differing opinions - I just said I find it hard to believe that this particular opinion exists without the support of delusions. Me finding it incredibly difficult to grasp doesn't make it impossible.

There is also a seperate issue of enjoyement. There are some rather bad games I enjoy on some level, but I don't claim them to be good games or of high quality.

[Il Divo]

Wyndham711 wrote...

BioWare is admirable because of its legacy. Never did I claim it is not an admirable developer to some degree or another. And never did I forbid or deny differing opinions - I just said I find it hard to believe that this particular opinion exists without the support of delusions. Me finding it incredibly difficult to grasp doesn't make it impossible.

Claiming that those who disagree are delusional is a form of denying differing opinions. If someone disagrees with your opinion, your post indicates that they are delusional. Your point could easily have been made without the hyperbole.

There is also a seperate issue of enjoyement. There are some rather bad games I enjoy on some level, but I don't claim them to be good games or of high quality.

Which assumes that Bioware games are lacking in quality, despite enjoyment. I consider Bioware games to be of high-quality in addition to being enjoyable.

CD Projekt has made a grand total of two video games. Bioware's history dates back to 1996 and almost every game since has been a commercial and critical success. This comes down to a rather simple issue of whether the Witcher series can compare to giants such as Baldur's Gate, Knights of the Old Republic, and Mass Effect, amongst their other titles.

Modifié par Il Divo, 18 août 2011 - 04:18 .

[Persephone]

Wyndham711 wrote...

BioWare is admirable because of its legacy. Never did I claim it is not an admirable developer to some degree or another. And never did I forbid or deny differing opinions - I just said I find it hard to believe that this particular opinion exists without the support of delusions. Me finding it incredibly difficult to grasp doesn't make it impossible..

No delusions required, given that comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. I really do not think it is necessary to stoop to such a personal level.

Me? I enjoy both of them.

[Wyndham711]

I did not mean to say that people that disagree with me on this are necesserily delusional - I could never know that and it would be foolish to claim otherwise.

However, I'm honestly so baffled by this particular opinion - which I outlined earlier - that suspecting delusional thinking is just a personal crutch of mine that I use in this state of confusion where I can find no other explanation. I'm absolutely ready to admit it is not constructive, nor does it lead anywhere, nor is it even close to truth with all cases, and for that I am sorry.

Now, I guess with admiration I can come to a kind of understanding - some people see admiration as something strongly cumulative and quite resilient, rather than something that easily fluctuates and changes. I place less value on BioWare's legacy, and more on what the company currently seems like in my eyes. And they still seem admirable to a degree, just not as admirable as CD Project.

[Persephone]

Wyndham711 wrote...

I did not mean to say that people that disagree with me on this are necesserily delusional - I could never know that and it would be foolish to claim otherwise.

However, I'm honestly so baffled by this particular opinion - which I outlined earlier - that suspecting delusional thinking is just a personal crutch of mine that I use in this state of confusion where I can find no other explanation. I'm absolutely ready to admit it is not constructive, nor does it lead anywhere, nor is it even close to truth with all cases, and for that I am sorry. .

Again, why compare them at all, given how little they have in common? 

Let me put it this way: I adore RPGs. RPGs like Might and Magic VI&VII. RPGs like Morrowind. RPGs like DAO and DAII. And RPGs like TW1&TW2. And that's all.