235 réponses à ce sujet

[aries1001]

Maybe because CDP can do this because they are their own publisher? CDP Red is a subsidary of CDP, a Polish game company that also is a very big publisher in Eastern Europe.

The only thing that, imo, in my way needs fixing in DA2 is the combat. It should have been more similar to the combat found in Legacy.

[Wyndham711]

Persephone wrote...

Again, why compare them at all, given how little they have in common? 

Let
me put it this way: I adore RPGs. RPGs like Might and Magic VI&VII.
RPGs like Morrowind. RPGs like DAO and DAII. And RPGs like TW1&TW2.
And that's all.

Alright, I guess that's a nice standpoint to have, thinking these things as entirely seperate entities where everyone just does their own thing. I might feel much more relaxed about many things were I able to adobt a similar way of thinking. Unfortunately I'm just a personality that can't help but compare and contrast. And I do think TW2 and DA2 are well within the range of reasonable comparison, I'd say fairly close to each other even within the broader genre.

Modifié par Wyndham711, 18 août 2011 - 04:39 .

[Costin_Razvan]

TW1 is the game you should compare to DA2.

Just saying.

TW1 blows DA2 out of the water anyway.

[Persephone]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

TW1 is the game you should compare to DA2.

Just saying.

TW1 blows DA2 out of the water anyway.

*Sighs* 

[AngryFrozenWater]

Dubya75 wrote...

If CDPR can do it - they are soon releasing an overhaul to TW2 - why can'y BioWare do the same with the hugely criticized DA2? 
CDRP  seem to recognise the loyalty of their customers who buy their games in good faith (because let's face it, it's a gamble) and they also seem to be committed to providing a quality product, and if the product is not quality, then they fix it.
If there is one game that deserves this same treatment, it is DA2.

So why is BioWare refusing to do the right thing?

I think BW believes that there is nothing wrong with the game. Any improvements as a result of the feedback will make its way to DA3. Anything like CDPR is doing is viewed by BW as giving in and is considered defeat. The company's primary focus is making money (and that's a good thing), but they don't have the same level of customer care as CDPR. These two companies just have different goals.

[Mr.House]

The fact of the matter is this, even if Bioware made a Dragon Age 2: 2.0 it would only fix the level design for the caves/mansions/warehouses, encounter design,some design issues and import bugs. It would not fix the writing, acts or any issues that have to do with writing. If you hated the characters in DA2, you are still going to hate them if they do a overhaul, same with the story I rather Bioware work on more high quality dlc like Legacy and take there time on DA3 then waste time on an overhaul when modders can fix most oft he issues.

A DA2 overhaul is not gonig to make people who hated the game like it sincet he peopel who disliked the game hate it because
1:Hawke
2: story
3: Didn't like the companions
4:Choices didn't matter

Four issues that would not be fixed in an overhaul, so Bioware don't waste your time and continue your work on other projects, and hopefully higher quality.

[nubbers666]

doing a over haul on da2 now
would not really have any affect on the players that would make it worth while
would cost them a decent amount of money to produce it across the platforms

but only thing you can do is hope they live and learn for when da3 comes out

[Persephone]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
but they don't have the same level of customer care as CDPR.

They also operate on entirely different scales. Again, let's wait and see where CDPR will be in 15 years and 15 games later.

[Mr.House]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

If CDPR can do it - they are soon releasing an overhaul to TW2 - why can'y BioWare do the same with the hugely criticized DA2? 
CDRP  seem to recognise the loyalty of their customers who buy their games in good faith (because let's face it, it's a gamble) and they also seem to be committed to providing a quality product, and if the product is not quality, then they fix it.
If there is one game that deserves this same treatment, it is DA2.

So why is BioWare refusing to do the right thing?

I think BW believes that there is nothing wrong with the game. Any improvements as a result of the feedback will make its way to DA3. Anything like CDPR is doing is viewed by BW as giving in and is considered defeat. The company's primary focus is making money (and that's a good thing), but they don't have the same level of customer care as CDPR. These two companies just have different goals.

No. There is no point becuase people will still hate the game with only a few praising the overhaul because the "main issues" will still be there, plus DA2 is not only on the PC, thus getting it to the console players would be tricky and cost more money, where TW2 2.0 is a FREE download to PC USERS only. That's the diffrence, it has nothing to do with Bioware admiting defeat or that crap, it has to do with profit and time, and a overhaul on a cross-platform game would turn into a disaster. Console users would have to pay for it because of it's size.

[Costin_Razvan]

Persephone wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
but they don't have the same level of customer care as CDPR.

They also operate on entirely different scales. Again, let's wait and see where CDPR will be in 15 years and 15 games later.

You want to compare the Witcher 1 to Shattered steel or the Witcher 2 to Baldur's Gate I?

[hoorayforicecream]

Overhauling it this late would be like the Star Wars Galaxies NGE.

[Persephone]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Persephone wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
but they don't have the same level of customer care as CDPR.

They also operate on entirely different scales. Again, let's wait and see where CDPR will be in 15 years and 15 games later.

You want to compare the Witcher 1 to Shattered steel or the Witcher 2 to Baldur's Gate I?

No. I want to compare the Bioware of today to CDPR when they have released more than 2 games, have survived in the industry as long as Bioware has etc.

I wouldn't compare a first time Golden Globe Winner to Meryl Streep either.

Modifié par Persephone, 18 août 2011 - 04:59 .

[Realmzmaster]

What does the OP want overhauled? The story? Hawke? The combat? Companions? How long is the OP willing to wait? 6 months or a year?

Those resources are better spent making DA3, an expansion or DLC. Is the OP stating that Bioware should make an expansion that fixes the problems and adds new content and give it away for free?
None of this is Bioware's call. Bioware is a wholly owned subsidiary of EA.

Can anyone tell me on any other company that makes CRPGs that has done an overhaul of a selling product other than CDProjectK?

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 18 août 2011 - 05:37 .

[Dubya75]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

If CDPR can do it - they are soon releasing an overhaul to TW2 - why can'y BioWare do the same with the hugely criticized DA2? 
CDRP  seem to recognise the loyalty of their customers who buy their games in good faith (because let's face it, it's a gamble) and they also seem to be committed to providing a quality product, and if the product is not quality, then they fix it.
If there is one game that deserves this same treatment, it is DA2.

So why is BioWare refusing to do the right thing?

I think BW believes that there is nothing wrong with the game. Any improvements as a result of the feedback will make its way to DA3. Anything like CDPR is doing is viewed by BW as giving in and is considered defeat. The company's primary focus is making money (and that's a good thing), but they don't have the same level of customer care as CDPR. These two companies just have different goals.

Sadly, you are probably right.

[Zjarcal]

Mr.House wrote...

The fact of the matter is this, even if Bioware made a Dragon Age 2: 2.0 it would only fix the level design for the caves/mansions/warehouses, encounter design,some design issues and import bugs. It would not fix the writing, acts or any issues that have to do with writing. If you hated the characters in DA2, you are still going to hate them if they do a overhaul, same with the story I rather Bioware work on more high quality dlc like Legacy and take there time on DA3 then waste time on an overhaul when modders can fix most oft he issues.

A DA2 overhaul is not gonig to make people who hated the game like it sincet he peopel who disliked the game hate it because
1:Hawke
2: story
3: Didn't like the companions
4:Choices didn't matter

Four issues that would not be fixed in an overhaul, so Bioware don't waste your time and continue your work on other projects, and hopefully higher quality.

This.

There's simply no point in doing an overhaul, focus on the future and avoid making the mistakes of the past.

[aries1001]

I've played well over 100+ hours now in both DA2 and Legacy (including reloads and having to start the Deep Roads in Chapter over three times...). And to me, the only real thing that is 'wrong' or not made well in DA2 is - wait for it - the combat. Bioware fixed the combat in Legacy. It is very clear that the combat in Legacy is much much better than the combat in DA2. It is more strategic and tactical, you'll need to think on how to position your characters, when to heal, when to use the spell 'aid allies' and when , for instance, Varric needs to go into shadow mode... As for being able to equip your companions, luckily there's a mod out there that's let's you to just do this. (equip your companions that is).

And yes, both DA2's and Legacy's story have a similar ending - since every great story needs to have an ending. So that a new one can be told. And each Bioware game have had quests that turned out the same in the end, regardless of the choices during them.

As for CDP doing the 'right thing with The Witcher 2', I'd say this has as much to do with the game coming to consoles. And that they, CDP, wants the pc version to get what the console version does e.g. a proper tutorial for the game's controls - and then some. As I've stated before in this post, I don't see anything wrong with DA2 - except for the combat. And maybe the non-ability to equip your companions.
As for the re-use of areas (or rather the cave and house modules etc) I'd rather have those if it means that we get more content in these - ahem- modules.

[Bryy_Miller]

Gunderic wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Why do people bother comparing BioWare to CDP? That's like comparing Team Meat to Valve, or HBO to the CW. There are very clear and obvious differences between the two.

... Which one's Team Meat then?

BioWare. Take into mind that when making these examples, size is not the thing here. Resources are.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Mr.House wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

If CDPR can do it - they are soon releasing an overhaul to TW2 - why can'y BioWare do the same with the hugely criticized DA2? 
CDRP  seem to recognise the loyalty of their customers who buy their games in good faith (because let's face it, it's a gamble) and they also seem to be committed to providing a quality product, and if the product is not quality, then they fix it.
If there is one game that deserves this same treatment, it is DA2.

So why is BioWare refusing to do the right thing?

I think BW believes that there is nothing wrong with the game. Any improvements as a result of the feedback will make its way to DA3. Anything like CDPR is doing is viewed by BW as giving in and is considered defeat. The company's primary focus is making money (and that's a good thing), but they don't have the same level of customer care as CDPR. These two companies just have different goals.

No. There is no point becuase people will still hate the game with only a few praising the overhaul because the "main issues" will still be there, plus DA2 is not only on the PC, thus getting it to the console players would be tricky and cost more money, where TW2 2.0 is a FREE download to PC USERS only. That's the diffrence, it has nothing to do with Bioware admiting defeat or that crap, it has to do with profit and time, and a overhaul on a cross-platform game would turn into a disaster. Console users would have to pay for it because of it's size.

It is not about hate. In the case of CDPR I don't think the majority of their players dislike the game. TW1 was different and it needed an overhaul and the gamers got one. In case of TW2 the team listened to the feedback. Where possible bug fixes, tweaks, and additional content were released through patches. Anything more substantial than that will be addressed in the overhaul.  Of course do the console players benefit from the overhaul of TW2. TW2 version 2.0 is scheduled to be released in September. The console version is scheduled to be released in Q4. So it is likely that the console players get that overhauled version too as the initial release.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 18 août 2011 - 08:25 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mr.House wrote...

The fact of the matter is this, even if Bioware made a Dragon Age 2: 2.0 it would only fix the level design for the caves/mansions/warehouses, encounter design,some design issues and import bugs. It would not fix the writing, acts or any issues that have to do with writing. If you hated the characters in DA2, you are still going to hate them if they do a overhaul, same with the story I rather Bioware work on more high quality dlc like Legacy and take there time on DA3 then waste time on an overhaul when modders can fix most oft he issues.

A DA2 overhaul is not gonig to make people who hated the game like it sincet he peopel who disliked the game hate it because
1:Hawke
2: story
3: Didn't like the companions
4:Choices didn't matter

Four issues that would not be fixed in an overhaul, so Bioware don't waste your time and continue your work on other projects, and hopefully higher quality.

Indeed. No amount of overhaul is going to change my opinion, except maybe make it less painful to play, but that is assuming I am even encouraged to play it a 2nd time.

So let them focus on the future and improve, and we'll see.

[Addai]

Dubya75 wrote...

If CDPR can do it - they are soon releasing an overhaul to TW2 - why can'y BioWare do the same with the hugely criticized DA2? 
CDRP  seem to recognise the loyalty of their customers who buy their games in good faith (because let's face it, it's a gamble) and they also seem to be committed to providing a quality product, and if the product is not quality, then they fix it.
If there is one game that deserves this same treatment, it is DA2.

So why is BioWare refusing to do the right thing?

NO.  No overhauls.  DA2's setup is not worth the trouble.  Bury the dead horse and move on.

CDPR releases overhauls because apparently they believe in having their pre-order customers beta test the game for them.

[Zanallen]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

It is not about hate. In the case of CDPR I don't think the majority of their players dislike the game. TW1 was different and it needed an overhaul and the gamers got one. In case of TW2 the team listened to the feedback. Where possible bug fixes, tweaks, and additional content were released through patches. Anything more substantial than that will be addressed in the overhaul.  Of course do the console players benefit from the overhaul of TW2. TW2 version 2.0 is scheduled to be released in September. The console version is scheduled to be released in Q4. So it is likely that the console players get that overhauled version too as the initial release.

What is your point, exactly? Of course the console version will benefit from the overhaul. The issue is that the overhaul comes before the console version, so CDProjekt doesn't have to deal with the issues and overhead inherent to pushing overly large patches through on a console. I can almost guarantee that if the console version was already out, it would not be receiving this overhaul.

And are you saying that Bioware isn't listening to feedback? I seem to recall several patches and bug fixes to DA2 that addressed what concerns that they could. And Legacy, while not free, seems to address even more concerns by fans for the future of the franchise.

[Costin_Razvan]

CDPR releases overhauls because apparently they believe in having their pre-order customers beta test the game for them.

Origins, Awakening and DA 2 all released with rather big bugs to them while the Witcher 2 ran smoothly for the most part.

But I get it that you hate the combat, but at least try and give and objective opinion on that please?

Patch 2.0 is not an overhaul for the Witcher 2 as I see it, it's more along the lines of a major bug fix patch with some DLC content in it. ( Maybe they will add CGI cinematics who knows ).

 And are you saying that Bioware isn't listening to feedback? I seem to recall several patches and bug fixes to DA2 that addressed what concerns that they could. And Legacy, while not free, seems to address even more concerns by fans for the future of the franchise.

You can't defend Bioware by saying they fixed the problems of DA 2 with Legacy, because they didn't. Nor was Legacy the awesomeness that everyone claims it is.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 18 août 2011 - 10:20 .

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

CDPR releases overhauls because apparently they believe in having their pre-order customers beta test the game for them.

Origins, Awakening and DA 2 all released with rather big bugs to them while the Witcher 2 ran smoothly for the most part.

But I get it that you hate the combat, but at least try and give and objective opinion on that please?

I'm not going only by my own experience, also by others including game reviewers that said the game's balance issues and awkwardness could have benefitted from beta testing.

I get it that you think any criticism of the game or of the developer is biased.

[Costin_Razvan]

I'm not going only by my own experience, also by others including game reviewers that said the game's balance issues and awkwardness could have benefitted from beta testing.

I get it that you think any criticism of the game or of the developer is biased.

Any criticism? Right. I'm all for criticism related to the fact of bad facial expressions, certain points in the plot that ****** me off quite a lot, technical issues ( the game crashed for me a LOT for instance ) etc.

But I am sorry if I do not take the criticism of someone who failed to even finish Chapter I not seriously. I am sorry if I fail to take the criticism of people who died 20 ****ing times on normal or easy in the prologue them dismissed the game as ****, or that I do not take the reviewers who say: Geralt cannot block! because they can't ****ing figure out that Geralt can only block when he has vigor.

I am sorry if I do not take the opinion of people who need to be told by the ****ing game to reload their weapon to understand how a gun works ( Mass Effect 2 tutorial ) seriously and because people can't open a GAME MANUAL to read it. God forbid that happens.

How about I compare this guy www.youtube.com/watch with his let's play ( who gave the game a 7/10 after he finished it ) to this guy www.youtube.com/watch - who also was criticizing the game's combat.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 18 août 2011 - 11:11 .

[Uzzy]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Uzzy wrote...

Well, out of their parent company that has enough money to put together a moon shot, perhaps. Or perhaps rather then going full speed ahead with DA3 so early, they could work on DA2 some more.

Should I feel sorry that Bioware chose to engage in multiple projects and now don't have the ability to give proper support to their existing games? Really?

Hmm, how many ways can one say that it's not common (business) sense to entirely rework an old game and put the sequel on a backburner...okay, not that many. In any case, please list how many mainstream companies have done what CDP has done and how many games have gone through such extensive overhauls. Can you name a whole bunch of them? I doubt it. Patches for NWN, etc. don't exactly qualify as being as extensive as the kinds of changes made to TW. It was a different time back then (ca. NWN), and I'm pretty sure BW didn't have the kinds of expenses/issues back then that they do now. Who's going to pay the VAs to do more work, eh? Who's going to the pay for the new animations and graphics? Are you going to bankroll it with your "goodwill"?

I think it's safe to say that most companies don't generate dollars by indulging people who demand the kinds of things that some people in this thread want. Again, what you consider "proper support" is something that seems flat-out unrealistic for most companies. I certainly don't want your sympathy for BW; I'm just pointing out the realities of the situation, which you don't seem to want to accept.

This continues to puzzle and amuse me. Apparently customer goodwill isn't worth investing in anymore.

Anyway, you're right that not many other companies do this sort of thing. CDP are going far beyond what's expected of post game support nowadays. With many games we're lucky if they are patched once, let alone overhauled. It's a sad state really, with a lot of companies thinking it's acceptable to just fire off a game and forget about it.

Now, I do not believe for one second that it is unrealistic for Bioware, a massive company that is bankrolled by a company so large it could finance it's own moon shot, to overhaul a game in a similar way to what CDP is doing. It may take an investment and a diversion of resources, and be seen as a waste, given that customer goodwill isn't seen as something worth investing in anymore, but it's entirely doable. Even something that removed all the repeated areas and gave more variety to those damn caves and warehouses would be a start. It wouldn't fix the major problems with DA2, but it'd fix the biggest problem that most everyone agrees with.

Yeah, Bioware won't do it, but their rivals will.. and that sort of thing gets remembered. I know I'll remember it.