235 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

Uzzy wrote...

Anyway, you're right that not many other companies do this sort of thing. CDP are going far beyond what's expected of post game support nowadays. With many games we're lucky if they are patched once, let alone overhauled. It's a sad state really, with a lot of companies thinking it's acceptable to just fire off a game and forget about it.

There have been two substantial patches for DA2, Bioware didn't just forget about the game.

Yeah, Bioware won't do it, but their rivals will.. and that sort of thing gets remembered. I know I'll remember it.

If under the same circumstances, CDPR wouldn't do it either.

[Gotholhorakh]

Persephone wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Persephone wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
but they don't have the same level of customer care as CDPR.

They also operate on entirely different scales. Again, let's wait and see where CDPR will be in 15 years and 15 games later.

You want to compare the Witcher 1 to Shattered steel or the Witcher 2 to Baldur's Gate I?

No. I want to compare the Bioware of today to CDPR when they have released more than 2 games, have survived in the industry as long as Bioware has etc.

I wouldn't compare a first time Golden Globe Winner to Meryl Streep either.

Hm. This timeline thing is an interesting qualification to add to the mix, I can see some interesting comparisons arising if we take different developers at points relative to where Obsidian, CDPR, Bethesda, BioWare etc. are now.

To be fair, I don't think it's something paying customers have in mind when they are comparing two products or two companies.

If it they do have that in mind it's probably quite selfish - "what can I get out of buying from a bigger/smaller company" rather than excusing anything.

[bzombo]

Maybe a small patch to fix the maps would be a nice gesture that would also keep size down enough for consoles and also add some goodwill.

[Darth Krytie]

bzombo wrote...

Maybe a small patch to fix the maps would be a nice gesture that would also keep size down enough for consoles and also add some goodwill.

I honestly don't think that could be a small patch.

[Realmzmaster]

bzombo wrote...

Maybe a small patch to fix the maps would be a nice gesture that would also keep size down enough for consoles and also add some goodwill.

What do you mean by fix the maps? Are you saying change the quests so that each has a different map? If that is the case, then no it would not be a simple fix nor a small patch.

[Dubya75]

Realmzmaster wrote...

bzombo wrote...

Maybe a small patch to fix the maps would be a nice gesture that would also keep size down enough for consoles and also add some goodwill.

What do you mean by fix the maps? Are you saying change the quests so that each has a different map? If that is the case, then no it would not be a simple fix nor a small patch.

Perhaps bzombo means the minimap on the UI. 
I have to say, it is incredibly frustrating when a map shows a path that ends up being blocked off by a concrete door...

[Realmzmaster]

Dubya75 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

bzombo wrote...

Maybe a small patch to fix the maps would be a nice gesture that would also keep size down enough for consoles and also add some goodwill.

What do you mean by fix the maps? Are you saying change the quests so that each has a different map? If that is the case, then no it would not be a simple fix nor a small patch.

Perhaps bzombo means the minimap on the UI. 
I have to say, it is incredibly frustrating when a map shows a path that ends up being blocked off by a concrete door...

Agreed! It would be nice if the door actual match the surrounding area and the mini-map only showed the area that can actually be reached.

[Wusword77]

Uzzy wrote...
This continues to puzzle and amuse me. Apparently customer goodwill isn't worth investing in anymore.

Anyway, you're right that not many other companies do this sort of thing. CDP are going far beyond what's expected of post game support nowadays. With many games we're lucky if they are patched once, let alone overhauled. It's a sad state really, with a lot of companies thinking it's acceptable to just fire off a game and forget about it.

Now, I do not believe for one second that it is unrealistic for Bioware, a massive company that is bankrolled by a company so large it could finance it's own moon shot, to overhaul a game in a similar way to what CDP is doing. It may take an investment and a diversion of resources, and be seen as a waste, given that customer goodwill isn't seen as something worth investing in anymore, but it's entirely doable. Even something that removed all the repeated areas and gave more variety to those damn caves and warehouses would be a start. It wouldn't fix the major problems with DA2, but it'd fix the biggest problem that most everyone agrees with.

Yeah, Bioware won't do it, but their rivals will.. and that sort of thing gets remembered. I know I'll remember it.

Investing in customer goodwill can be very different from investing millions of dollars in an already released game that portions of the community don't think needs an "overhaul."  Doing patches to fix in game issues, making DLC (both free and pay), getting and listening to customer feedback are all means of fostering goodwill with the customers.  Bioware has done all fo these things, which could hardly be counted as "just firing off a game."

Secondly, I love how people are buying into CDP's marketing on this.  The game isn't getting too much of an "overhaul" as much as it's getting "2 new" modes (Dark mode isn't new, it's Insane that you can save on with a few extra items) and an in game tutorial (which it sorely needed).  That's not an overhaul, not by any stretch of the imagination.  An Overhaul would imply that the game is changing in a fundemental way, like what people are calling for in a DA2 "Overhaul" (Change in story, main character, maps and encounters, ect.), not what TW2 is getting.

People really need to look more closely at whats actually coming out with this free patch (see thats marketing right there) then just buying into the marketing speak they dish out.

[LobselVith8]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Because a patch can't fix what's wrong with DA2, I think. A patch will not fix a poorly executed plot, lack of cohesion and coherence, or add the needed character and NPC development arcs that this game lacks. Nor will it be able to add choices or gameplay paths that matter. And a patch can't fix the numerous immersion issues.

The best that I can hope for is an expansion that gives me the impression and hope that the mistakes and fails of DA2 have been noted, and that Bioware is changing from where it was going with the series in DA2. A well written, well developed expansion or DLC would not fix the game, but it would restore my faith in the franchise alot.

At this point, I've accepted DA2 is what it is, and all my annoyance and disappointment with how the game turned out won't change anything. I can only hope that Bioware has taken notice of the ire and fan rage, and will take their numerous complaints into consideration when they start development for an expansion and DA3.

I agree. I don't think a patch is going to be able to fix the problems with the narrative, with the horrible depiction of mages as buffons, with the absurd macguffin that's never properly explained, and the protagonist who is reactive instead of proactive. Given Legacy repeating the "Sheparding Wolves" ending (that I decided to delete because I don't need to play a story that makes me feel like my protagonist is any more of an idiot than the main game made me feel towards Hawke), I'm not really holding out much hope for the future of Dragon Age 2.

[Realmzmaster]

CDProjectK is not doing a total overhaul of TW2. The core game will not change. What they are doing is adding a game tutorial and different modes. The main game will not change. The changes are being made in anticipation of the console release.

If TW2 had already been released on the XBox (sorry PS3 you are not getting a release at the moment). I seriously doubt you will see a large overhaul.

Since TW2 only has a PC release it is easy to have the PC gamers simply download the overhaul. This way the PC gamers will not grouse about the console gamers having features that they do not.

DA2 on the other hand is release on all three platforms which means overhauling the game (whatever that means) is a big deal in terms of resources and money.

Now you can say it will generate goodwill, but if that goodwill is going to wipe out any profit it is a non starter.

[Dubya75]

Realmzmaster wrote...

CDProjectK is not doing a total overhaul of TW2. The core game will not change. What they are doing is adding a game tutorial and different modes. The main game will not change. The changes are being made in anticipation of the console release.

If TW2 had already been released on the XBox (sorry PS3 you are not getting a release at the moment). I seriously doubt you will see a large overhaul.

Since TW2 only has a PC release it is easy to have the PC gamers simply download the overhaul. This way the PC gamers will not grouse about the console gamers having features that they do not.

DA2 on the other hand is release on all three platforms which means overhauling the game (whatever that means) is a big deal in terms of resources and money.

Now you can say it will generate goodwill, but if that goodwill is going to wipe out any profit it is a non starter.

I don't think it was ever a case of overhauling the game's core mechanics and what not, it is more to do with remedial work to areas in which the game failed.
Yes, they have taken steps in the right direction by tweaking the combat and delivering an awesome DLC, but I just can't get over the notion that there's so much more that can be done to make the core game better.
I don't see how this can consume all the revenue the game has generated so far, in fact I'm convinced it could help sales.
What you are saying however does seem frustratingly more realistic than hoping for something to be done about things like recycled areas, character customisation and so on.
But then, we're not talking about altering the story or the flow of the game in any way, just some added features and replacing some areas that are clearly been used too many times.

[Wusword77]

Dubya75 wrote...
I don't see how this can consume all the revenue the game has generated so far, in fact I'm convinced it could help sales.

I seriously doubt that there will be a spike in sales for the TW2 on PC as a result of this patch.  While the game may continue to sell it will most likely not be the result of the patch being released, rather it will be due to the reputation the game already has made for itself.

[Morroian]

Wusword77 wrote...

Secondly, I love how people are buying into CDP's marketing on this.  The game isn't getting too much of an "overhaul" as much as it's getting "2 new" modes (Dark mode isn't new, it's Insane that you can save on with a few extra items) and an in game tutorial (which it sorely needed).  That's not an overhaul, not by any stretch of the imagination.  An Overhaul would imply that the game is changing in a fundemental way, like what people are calling for in a DA2 "Overhaul" (Change in story, main character, maps and encounters, ect.), not what TW2 is getting.

Is that seriously all they're doing? Hahahahahahaha!

Sad really, Bioware has been raked over the coals for similar misleading marketing.

Modifié par Morroian, 19 août 2011 - 11:45 .

[CSick]

aries1001 wrote...

As for being able to equip your companions, luckily there's a mod out there that's let's you to just do this. (equip your companions that is).

.

i kind of get annoyed when people dismiss this problem because some fans have fixed it themselves. i've played all the DA games on PS3, so the annoyance of having Isabela wear a sheet with holes in it for the entire game is not remedied for me. and having 4 armor upgrades scattered throughout the game is still unrewarding and further adds to the tediousness of this game.

i just hope bioware doesn't take the attitude that they don't have to deal with issues like this, because fans will do it for them; thinking something like, "oh well, PC gamers are the only ones that care about that sort of thing, and they can do it on their own anyway, so who cares." for me, the fact of the matter is that my little gateway laptop isn't exactly the best gaming rig, but it works fine for everything else. so, i don't plan on upgrading anytime soon, and i can get a much more enjoyable gaming experience on my consoles. i'm sure there are others like me, and i hope that bioware is still taking us into consideration. 

[FedericoV]

Dubya75 wrote...

If CDPR can do it - they are soon releasing an overhaul to TW2 - why can'y BioWare do the same with the hugely criticized DA2? 

CDPR is not doing an overhaul. It's a glorified patch that adds some nice feature (the arena and so on) and that try to address some of the technical problems of the game. The core of the game will be the same. So, the combat system will likely continue to suck just like the first time we played it .

[alex90c]

CSick wrote...

aries1001 wrote...

As for being able to equip your companions, luckily there's a mod out there that's let's you to just do this. (equip your companions that is).

.

i kind of get annoyed when people dismiss this problem because some fans have fixed it themselves. i've played all the DA games on PS3, so the annoyance of having Isabela wear a sheet with holes in it for the entire game is not remedied for me. and having 4 armor upgrades scattered throughout the game is still unrewarding and further adds to the tediousness of this game.

i just hope bioware doesn't take the attitude that they don't have to deal with issues like this, because fans will do it for them; thinking something like, "oh well, PC gamers are the only ones that care about that sort of thing, and they can do it on their own anyway, so who cares." for me, the fact of the matter is that my little gateway laptop isn't exactly the best gaming rig, but it works fine for everything else. so, i don't plan on upgrading anytime soon, and i can get a much more enjoyable gaming experience on my consoles. i'm sure there are others like me, and i hope that bioware is still taking us into consideration. 

*looks at Turian avatar*

*chuckles*

*walks away*

[Waage25]

Morroian wrote...

Wusword77 wrote...

Secondly, I love how people are buying into CDP's marketing on this.  The game isn't getting too much of an "overhaul" as much as it's getting "2 new" modes (Dark mode isn't new, it's Insane that you can save on with a few extra items) and an in game tutorial (which it sorely needed).  That's not an overhaul, not by any stretch of the imagination.  An Overhaul would imply that the game is changing in a fundemental way, like what people are calling for in a DA2 "Overhaul" (Change in story, main character, maps and encounters, ect.), not what TW2 is getting.

Is that seriously all they're doing? Hahahahahahaha!

Sad really, Bioware has been raked over the coals for similar misleading marketing.

What misleading marketing?
You mean like the first news we got of this was a video that detailed what was coming out with this patch??.

The thing is TW2 dose not need a lot of fixing. The combat could use tweaking, a better tutorial and that is about it.

THOUS Are the big issues with the game nothing else really needs any thing.

[CSick]

alex90c wrote...

*looks at Turian avatar*

*chuckles*

*walks away*

see? this is exacty the kind of mentality i'm talking about.

[Morroian]

Waage25 wrote...

What misleading marketing?
You mean like the first news we got of this was a video that detailed what was coming out with this patch??.

So where are the people calling it a total overhaul getting that from?

[Heather Cline]

This has been stated it's just not economically feasible for Bioware/EA to totally re-tool the game. Because as stated to release patches it takes time and Microsoft has a limit on how many patches they allow through, how big the patches are and so on and so forth. Only real benefit would be to PC players and that's not really fair to the rest of the community.

Frankly the only way to re-tool DA2 is to redo the entire game and re-release it on disc for all console players and then charge players another 40-60 dollars to get their money back. Because they would be losing money instead of making it. Bioware is a company in the gaming industry out to make money. Yes they are trying to keep their fanbase but they can't just shove out a game and expect no return on their investment. You have to pay the developers, pay for all the over head costs and still make a profit.

It's a business first and foremost. A total re-tooling of the game is just not economically profitable.

As for TW2 right now it is just PC so they can release however many patches they want without problems. The game when released for the 360 and any other console will be the ultimate edition with all the patches all the DLC as stated in a press release. This is why TW2 is getting such good press because the game came out for PC first and all problems are being worked out right now before console release.

Modifié par Heather Cline, 21 août 2011 - 05:28 .

[Ulous]

The first Witcher was broken so they fixed it.

Regardless of what you think of DA2 personally the game is not broken.

[Krusty84]

Ulous wrote...

The first Witcher was broken so they fixed it.

Regardless of what you think of DA2 personally the game is not broken.

Only english translation...DA2 is concept/strorry broken and that can't be fixed by patch. Dragon Age 2 the game equivalent of Highlander 2.

Modifié par Krusty84, 21 août 2011 - 08:32 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Morroian wrote...

Wusword77 wrote...

Secondly, I love how people are buying into CDP's marketing on this.  The game isn't getting too much of an "overhaul" as much as it's getting "2 new" modes (Dark mode isn't new, it's Insane that you can save on with a few extra items) and an in game tutorial (which it sorely needed).  That's not an overhaul, not by any stretch of the imagination.  An Overhaul would imply that the game is changing in a fundemental way, like what people are calling for in a DA2 "Overhaul" (Change in story, main character, maps and encounters, ect.), not what TW2 is getting.

Is that seriously all they're doing? Hahahahahahaha!

Sad really, Bioware has been raked over the coals for similar misleading marketing.

The main problem here is that "goodwill" and "marketing" are not generally seen as the same exact thing, even though they are.

[Gotholhorakh]

Ulous wrote...

The first Witcher was broken so they fixed it.

Regardless of what you think of DA2 personally the game is not broken.

Regardless of? Interesting way to qualify that 


I'll pick some games that readily spring to mind as famously "broken" at release - Fallout 3 and Empire: Total War - actually even HL2 a bit, if you count the terrible audio looping you could get - 

No amount of CTD or technical problems from these games brought as many gaming sessions to an end as the frustrations and annoyances of DA2 gameplay and its cut corners, nor did they cause me to uninstall and put the disk/case out of sight instead of on the shelf next to the other fallout/total war/HL games.

Give me 100 CTDs over that kind of brokenness any day of the week. 

Yeah, it's quite clear that it's not financially viable to "fix" it, even if they thought it needed that. on the other hand, it's really not financially viable for lots of us to blow 60 bucks on an experiment in radically, knowingly and admittedly departing from what we were expecting.

The idea that loads of fans just absorb the cost of that experiment is just as laughable as the idea of people expecting BioWare to rewrite the game now - the difference is that one of the parties is SOL and stuck with it anyway. 

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 21 août 2011 - 09:22 .

[Vicious]

Because maybe some people don't hate and despise DA2 as much as some of you loudmouthed fellows do.

Or maybe some of us would rather they spent time on DA2 DLC and making ME3 great and getting DA3 right, than re-releasing  DA2 just to please some 'fans' who probably don't give a crap anyway.

Just a thought.

Modifié par Vicious, 21 août 2011 - 10:08 .