I've come to the conclusion that what I want out of Mage for this play through is to create a crazy-powerful battlefield controller. This is essentially an Elemental/Force mage with some small tweaks. My goal is to achieve crowd control through all the means that entails with the exception of Blood Magic. I'll be playing on Hard.
Currently, I'm looking at:
Elemental
Winter's Grasp/Winter's Blast - Freezing foes, causing BRITTLE
Cone of Cold/Deep Freeze - Same as above
Fireball - Mainly to get to Firestorm
Firestorm/Apocalyptic Firestorm - Used primarily for the Panic effect, DPS is secondary
Elemental Mastery - 100% BRITTLE
Primal
Rock Armor - You'd be stupid not to
Arcane
Mind Blast - I don't know how useful this is, actually, but I need something to reduce threat
Barrier - This is a maybe. Could come in handy, but it doesn't really fit the idea I have in mind.
Entropy
Horror - One point wonder
(NOTE: Would get Sleep, except from the description (50% on Normal enemies? Pfft), Sleep sounds absolutely useless. True or not true?)
Creation
Glyph of Paralysis/Glyph of Binding - This is pretty crucial. It works as a stop for those that didn't get hit by Pull of the Abyss, along with Horror and Winter's Grasp
Glyph of Repulsion - Made for holding down choke points or simply buying a party member (or myself) some time
Force Mage
Fist of the Maker (with both upgrades) - This is another control spell. The increased radius and reduced reuse time allows for more interruption of enemy activity
Telekinetic Burst - I've been trying this out, not sure how to use it to its best ability. Tips with this would be welcome.
Pull of the Abyss - Duh.
Gravitic Ring - Double dub.
Unshakable - I hesitate on this because I feel that if I get hit, I'm gonna be screwed anyway, but this could also come in handy to get an interrupt off.
Lastly, I'd grab the Spirit Healer specialization for the boost to Mana. This all comes out to 23 points, so far. 24 if Barrier was taken.
----
This build would be used in conjunction with Fenris, Varric, and a fourth as-of-yet undecided party member (probably Sebastian since I hate Anders and Merrill and Isabela doesn't have much purpose in this build). I toyed with the idea of including Aveline or replacing Fenris with Aveline to set up guaranteed STAGGER for Fist of the Maker's bonus damage but I think overall, having her in wouldn't be too beneficial.
There are a few things I worry about with this build.
First of all, it's pretty heavy in terms of mana usage. Granted, the average fight wouldn't go much longer than Pull of the Abyss --> Gravitic Ring --> Outliers (Horror any Elites/Assassins and focus fire; Glyph of Para new spawns or any away from the main group) --> Fist of the Maker or Winter's Grasp for a quick Interrupt. Or something like that, anyway. I could always toss on a bunch of +regen gear (though that stuff doesn't seem to be all that effective) or +mana gear.
Second, this build generates a somewhat significant amount of hate, and shedding hate as a Mage has proven somewhat difficult. I think this problem will resolve itself once Fenris gets more powerful and gets his attack speed buff and all that jazz, but it's a concern.
Third, I would be operating without focus in AOE DPS or Support/Healing. I think I can get away with this in most fights, but bosses are a concern. Haven't had my Rock Wraith trial by fire yet, though.
Lastly, because I'm not all that knowledgable of the specific game mechanics, I'm not sure how good this build is period. I'm sure there's things that could be tweaked, that some of the spell choices I have are silly, and that there's more DPS I could do somewhere/somehow.
But my goal with this isn't DPS. Since I'm rolling without Anders or Merrill, my goal is to prevent damage in the first place through use of Obscures, Freeze, Interrupts, Stuns, Glyphs, and positioning. The only thing I'd want but won't have in this build is Haste.
What do y'all think? Viable? Viable but dumb? Viable but inefficient?
Decided what kind of Mage to make, but does my build make sense?
Débuté par
ModicaSolis
, août 15 2011 09:36
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#2
Posté 15 août 2011 - 11:16
mr_afk
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1. if you're struggling mana-wise and don't want to use bloodmagic/pump willpower you could consider getting death syphon.
2. if you're struggling with threat just get one of your rogues to get goad/armistice or get your warrior to draw more threat via greater dps/taunt/upgraded bravery or battle synergy. I wouldn't have thought threat would be a problem though as your build isn't intended to have that great a dps? stuns (mind blast/fist of maker) can redirect threat, otherwise just crowd controlling/killing them works.
3. Your main problem will be the absence of a haste. Without haste that's a party wide drop in dps, especially if you're going without anders. Though haste may be still bugged on the lower difficulties if I remember right. Firestorms are all the area dps you really need. If you use cold staves/spells and dps builds the ARW shouldn't be a problem.
4. The best way to 'prevent dps' is to kill things faster. There is a distinct lack of CCCs in your build which isn't so good. You won't have any disorient CCCs (unless you take aveline along), one stagger CCC (chain lightning/crushing prison CCCs would help get some spike damage), and only two spells for brittle setups (which are unreliable at best) - though I suppose that isn't entirely your fault as it's mainly due to having one mage.
If you can't kill them fast enough you'll receive more damage. This means that you'll need more healing (which you don't have any of). That places quite a lot of pressure on your crowd control abilities and fights with multiple waves will be issuey.
So I wouldn't think this would be the most powerful or easy build to play but everything is viable in the end of the day. And since you've already put quite a lot of thought into it you might as well just try it out and see how it goes. If it utterly blows you could always just respec. haha
I would recommend a build more focused on CCCs if I were going no-anders/merrill.
Pull of the abyss --> Fatiguing fog --> Walking bomb --> Scatter/Assualt = Entire group dead.
Pinning shot --> Stone fist/Spirit bolt = Reasonable spike damage.
Shield bash --> Crushing prison/Chain lightning/Fist of the maker = Decent spike damage.
Winter's Grasp/Cone of Cold/Petrify --> Archer's Lance (and maybe mighty blow etc if fenris is there)
That would involve aveline and varric mainly. The third companion would be more for extra dps, CCC setup or threat management. Isabela could deal pretty solid spike damage via lacerate+twin fangs/explosive strike.
and Fenris could be.. a douche as usual.
2. if you're struggling with threat just get one of your rogues to get goad/armistice or get your warrior to draw more threat via greater dps/taunt/upgraded bravery or battle synergy. I wouldn't have thought threat would be a problem though as your build isn't intended to have that great a dps? stuns (mind blast/fist of maker) can redirect threat, otherwise just crowd controlling/killing them works.
3. Your main problem will be the absence of a haste. Without haste that's a party wide drop in dps, especially if you're going without anders. Though haste may be still bugged on the lower difficulties if I remember right. Firestorms are all the area dps you really need. If you use cold staves/spells and dps builds the ARW shouldn't be a problem.
4. The best way to 'prevent dps' is to kill things faster. There is a distinct lack of CCCs in your build which isn't so good. You won't have any disorient CCCs (unless you take aveline along), one stagger CCC (chain lightning/crushing prison CCCs would help get some spike damage), and only two spells for brittle setups (which are unreliable at best) - though I suppose that isn't entirely your fault as it's mainly due to having one mage.
If you can't kill them fast enough you'll receive more damage. This means that you'll need more healing (which you don't have any of). That places quite a lot of pressure on your crowd control abilities and fights with multiple waves will be issuey.
So I wouldn't think this would be the most powerful or easy build to play but everything is viable in the end of the day. And since you've already put quite a lot of thought into it you might as well just try it out and see how it goes. If it utterly blows you could always just respec. haha
I would recommend a build more focused on CCCs if I were going no-anders/merrill.
Pull of the abyss --> Fatiguing fog --> Walking bomb --> Scatter/Assualt = Entire group dead.
Pinning shot --> Stone fist/Spirit bolt = Reasonable spike damage.
Shield bash --> Crushing prison/Chain lightning/Fist of the maker = Decent spike damage.
Winter's Grasp/Cone of Cold/Petrify --> Archer's Lance (and maybe mighty blow etc if fenris is there)
That would involve aveline and varric mainly. The third companion would be more for extra dps, CCC setup or threat management. Isabela could deal pretty solid spike damage via lacerate+twin fangs/explosive strike.
and Fenris could be.. a douche as usual.
Modifié par mr_afk, 15 août 2011 - 11:29 .
#3
Posté 15 août 2011 - 02:41
thendcomes
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Certainly viable, but inefficient. If you're playing on Hard, then don't even worry about it. As long as you observe the guides on the forum about gearing and tactics, you won't have any difficulty.
#4
Posté 15 août 2011 - 04:19
SuicidalBaby
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Elemental
Winter's Grasp/Winter's Blast - Freezing foes, causing BRITTLE
Cone of Cold/Deep Freeze - Same as above
Fireball - Mainly to get to Firestorm
Do not discount this spell. The 67% buff from the last patch has made this spell something enemies should fear every cooldown.
Firestorm/Apocalyptic Firestorm - Used primarily for the Panic effect, DPS is secondary
This is your DPS, don't confuse it. You're Force Mage for this reason. Grav/Pull/Firestorm/Fireball
Elemental Mastery - 100% BRITTLE
Primal
Rock Armor - You'd be stupid not to - Unnecessary; you're not on Nightmare
Arcane
Mind Blast - I don't know how useful this is, actually, but I need something to reduce threat
Unnecessary unless you are going for Crushing/Paralyzing Prison which falls into your overall CC statement. And when Combined with the Cold effects from your elemental build result in a 100% snare even after just Crushing Prison that is not upgraded.
Barrier - This is a maybe. Could come in handy, but it doesn't really fit the idea I have in mind
Unnecessary. Elemental Weapons makes a much better fill for the 2nd point to acquire Crushing Prison. As it adds 10% overall dps to your group.
Entropy
Horror - One point wonder
Good choice, pick up Hex of Torment as well
(NOTE: Would get Sleep, except from the description (50% on Normal enemies? Pfft), Sleep sounds absolutely useless. True or not true?)
Useless
Creation
Glyph of Paralysis/Glyph of Binding - This is pretty crucial. It works as a stop for those that didn't get hit by Pull of the Abyss, along with Horror and Winter's Grasp
good
Glyph of Repulsion - Made for holding down choke points or simply buying a party member (or myself) some time
much better options than this, i.e. petrify, utilizing stonefist, both are great utility spells. Also; No Heal? No Heroic/Valiant Aura? No Great Haste?
Force Mage
Fist of the Maker (with both upgrades) - This is another control spell. The increased radius and reduced reuse time allows for more interruption of enemy activity
If you have enough stagger running around, a lot of people have found great use with this ability on the lower difficulties
Telekinetic Burst - I've been trying this out, not sure how to use it to its best ability. Tips with this would be welcome.
Great to free allies that are swarmed. Great for de-stealthing an Assassin after he completes his stealth animation, this requires patience.
Pull of the Abyss - Duh.
Gravitic Ring - Double duh.
Unshakable - I hesitate on this because I feel that if I get hit, I'm gonna be screwed anyway, but this could also come in handy to get an interrupt off.
Only really needed on Nightmare at this point, especially if you plan on putting even the most minimal of points into con.(10)
Lastly, I'd grab the Spirit Healer specialization for the boost to Mana. This all comes out to 23 points, so far. 24 if Barrier was taken.
----
This build would be used in conjunction with Fenris, Varric, and a fourth as-of-yet undecided party member (probably Sebastian since I hate Anders and Merrill and Isabela doesn't have much purpose in this build). I toyed with the idea of including Aveline or replacing Fenris with Aveline to set up guaranteed STAGGER for Fist of the Maker's bonus damage but I think overall, having her in wouldn't be too beneficial.
There are a few things I worry about with this build.
First of all, it's pretty heavy in terms of mana usage. Granted, the average fight wouldn't go much longer than Pull of the Abyss --> Gravitic Ring --> Outliers (Horror any Elites/Assassins and focus fire; Glyph of Para new spawns or any away from the main group) --> Fist of the Maker or Winter's Grasp for a quick Interrupt. Or something like that, anyway. I could always toss on a bunch of +regen gear (though that stuff doesn't seem to be all that effective) or +mana gear.
Second, this build generates a somewhat significant amount of hate, and shedding hate as a Mage has proven somewhat difficult. I think this problem will resolve itself once Fenris gets more powerful and gets his attack speed buff and all that jazz, but it's a concern.
They cant hate you if they are dead. Focus towards murder not deflection. Or allow others to do the controlling. Fenris can have Taunt/Bellow. Varric can have Armitice/Goad
Third, I would be operating without focus in AOE DPS or Support/Healing. I think I can get away with this in most fights, but bosses are a concern. Haven't had my Rock Wraith trial by fire yet, though.
Lastly, because I'm not all that knowledgeable of the specific game mechanics, I'm not sure how good this build is period. I'm sure there's things that could be tweaked, that some of the spell choices I have are silly, and that there's more DPS I could do somewhere/somehow.
But my goal with this isn't DPS. Since I'm rolling without Anders or Merrill, my goal is to prevent damage in the first place through use of Obscures, Freeze, Interrupts, Stuns, Glyphs, and positioning. The only thing I'd want but won't have in this build is Haste.
DPS is preventing damage. Do not confuse this.
Winter's Grasp/Winter's Blast - Freezing foes, causing BRITTLE
Cone of Cold/Deep Freeze - Same as above
Fireball - Mainly to get to Firestorm
Do not discount this spell. The 67% buff from the last patch has made this spell something enemies should fear every cooldown.
Firestorm/Apocalyptic Firestorm - Used primarily for the Panic effect, DPS is secondary
This is your DPS, don't confuse it. You're Force Mage for this reason. Grav/Pull/Firestorm/Fireball
Elemental Mastery - 100% BRITTLE
Primal
Rock Armor - You'd be stupid not to - Unnecessary; you're not on Nightmare
Arcane
Mind Blast - I don't know how useful this is, actually, but I need something to reduce threat
Unnecessary unless you are going for Crushing/Paralyzing Prison which falls into your overall CC statement. And when Combined with the Cold effects from your elemental build result in a 100% snare even after just Crushing Prison that is not upgraded.
Barrier - This is a maybe. Could come in handy, but it doesn't really fit the idea I have in mind
Unnecessary. Elemental Weapons makes a much better fill for the 2nd point to acquire Crushing Prison. As it adds 10% overall dps to your group.
Entropy
Horror - One point wonder
Good choice, pick up Hex of Torment as well
(NOTE: Would get Sleep, except from the description (50% on Normal enemies? Pfft), Sleep sounds absolutely useless. True or not true?)
Useless
Creation
Glyph of Paralysis/Glyph of Binding - This is pretty crucial. It works as a stop for those that didn't get hit by Pull of the Abyss, along with Horror and Winter's Grasp
good
Glyph of Repulsion - Made for holding down choke points or simply buying a party member (or myself) some time
much better options than this, i.e. petrify, utilizing stonefist, both are great utility spells. Also; No Heal? No Heroic/Valiant Aura? No Great Haste?
Force Mage
Fist of the Maker (with both upgrades) - This is another control spell. The increased radius and reduced reuse time allows for more interruption of enemy activity
If you have enough stagger running around, a lot of people have found great use with this ability on the lower difficulties
Telekinetic Burst - I've been trying this out, not sure how to use it to its best ability. Tips with this would be welcome.
Great to free allies that are swarmed. Great for de-stealthing an Assassin after he completes his stealth animation, this requires patience.
Pull of the Abyss - Duh.
Gravitic Ring - Double duh.
Unshakable - I hesitate on this because I feel that if I get hit, I'm gonna be screwed anyway, but this could also come in handy to get an interrupt off.
Only really needed on Nightmare at this point, especially if you plan on putting even the most minimal of points into con.(10)
Lastly, I'd grab the Spirit Healer specialization for the boost to Mana. This all comes out to 23 points, so far. 24 if Barrier was taken.
----
This build would be used in conjunction with Fenris, Varric, and a fourth as-of-yet undecided party member (probably Sebastian since I hate Anders and Merrill and Isabela doesn't have much purpose in this build). I toyed with the idea of including Aveline or replacing Fenris with Aveline to set up guaranteed STAGGER for Fist of the Maker's bonus damage but I think overall, having her in wouldn't be too beneficial.
There are a few things I worry about with this build.
First of all, it's pretty heavy in terms of mana usage. Granted, the average fight wouldn't go much longer than Pull of the Abyss --> Gravitic Ring --> Outliers (Horror any Elites/Assassins and focus fire; Glyph of Para new spawns or any away from the main group) --> Fist of the Maker or Winter's Grasp for a quick Interrupt. Or something like that, anyway. I could always toss on a bunch of +regen gear (though that stuff doesn't seem to be all that effective) or +mana gear.
Second, this build generates a somewhat significant amount of hate, and shedding hate as a Mage has proven somewhat difficult. I think this problem will resolve itself once Fenris gets more powerful and gets his attack speed buff and all that jazz, but it's a concern.
They cant hate you if they are dead. Focus towards murder not deflection. Or allow others to do the controlling. Fenris can have Taunt/Bellow. Varric can have Armitice/Goad
Third, I would be operating without focus in AOE DPS or Support/Healing. I think I can get away with this in most fights, but bosses are a concern. Haven't had my Rock Wraith trial by fire yet, though.
Lastly, because I'm not all that knowledgeable of the specific game mechanics, I'm not sure how good this build is period. I'm sure there's things that could be tweaked, that some of the spell choices I have are silly, and that there's more DPS I could do somewhere/somehow.
But my goal with this isn't DPS. Since I'm rolling without Anders or Merrill, my goal is to prevent damage in the first place through use of Obscures, Freeze, Interrupts, Stuns, Glyphs, and positioning. The only thing I'd want but won't have in this build is Haste.
DPS is preventing damage. Do not confuse this.
Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 15 août 2011 - 05:04 .
#5
Posté 15 août 2011 - 04:53
SuicidalBaby
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Try this:
1.Mind Blast
2.Winter's Grasp
3.Heroic Aura
4.Glyph of Paralysis
Respec
1.Heroic Aura
2.Winter's Grasp
3.Spirit Bolt
4.Walking Bomb
5.Glyph of Paralysis
6.Heal
7.Valiant Aura - Spec: Force Mage
8.Haste
9.Glyph of Binding
10.Fireball
11.Firestorm - Tome of Ability(Hubert): Pyromancer
12.Great Haste
13.Hex of Torment
Act II
14.Telekinetic Burst - Spec: Spirit Healer
15.Fist of the Maker - Tome of Ability(Master Ilen): Gravitic Ring
17.Pull of the Abyss - Elixir of Arcane(Black Emporium): Cone of Cold
18.Winter's Blast
19.Elemental Mastery
20.Greater Heal
+21. *
*Consider Death Syphon and Death Vortex as a decent late game mana solution at 10% per corpse. (which results in about 6.5% with both sustained abilities active. Heroic Aura = 15% | Death Syphon = 20%)
Summation:
The early balance you gain from Walking Bomb gives you the freedom to build your support structure early without fear of not having the dps to clear encounters. Do not shy away from the big spells and poultice sucking. Your group will rely on poultices for the most part as a healing supplement, which the game will supply you with.
if you need tactics, click below.
1.Mind Blast
2.Winter's Grasp
3.Heroic Aura
4.Glyph of Paralysis
Respec
1.Heroic Aura
2.Winter's Grasp
3.Spirit Bolt
4.Walking Bomb
5.Glyph of Paralysis
6.Heal
7.Valiant Aura - Spec: Force Mage
8.Haste
9.Glyph of Binding
10.Fireball
11.Firestorm - Tome of Ability(Hubert): Pyromancer
12.Great Haste
13.Hex of Torment
Act II
14.Telekinetic Burst - Spec: Spirit Healer
15.Fist of the Maker - Tome of Ability(Master Ilen): Gravitic Ring
17.Pull of the Abyss - Elixir of Arcane(Black Emporium): Cone of Cold
18.Winter's Blast
19.Elemental Mastery
20.Greater Heal
+21. *
*Consider Death Syphon and Death Vortex as a decent late game mana solution at 10% per corpse. (which results in about 6.5% with both sustained abilities active. Heroic Aura = 15% | Death Syphon = 20%)
Summation:
The early balance you gain from Walking Bomb gives you the freedom to build your support structure early without fear of not having the dps to clear encounters. Do not shy away from the big spells and poultice sucking. Your group will rely on poultices for the most part as a healing supplement, which the game will supply you with.
if you need tactics, click below.
#6
Posté 15 août 2011 - 04:53
devilspep
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I finished Dragon age II and Legacy with a Blood mage/Spirit Healer. I can take health away and give it back at will which is a neat combo to have. Force Mage seemed like a powerful class but I really wanted to try a blood mage since I was playing a selfish slightly on the evil side mage. Spirit Healer is just great if you want to turn a losing battle into a victory. Your whole party gets wiped out and just like that you get them back in the fight. Plus there's a passive ability of plus 10 constitution. I felt like a near invincible mage by storie's end.
My spells outside my bonus classes I focused on elemental (fire and cold damaging spells). Firestorm will tear clustered enemies apart and winter grasp and cone cold are awesome at demobilizing units and especially elite ones. My favorite spell I have to say, though it may seem basic, is improved Mind blast. Nothing's better when you have enemies charging at you ready to tear you apart and with a press of the button they're either stunned or thrown back a few feet. Really cool spell and saved my arse many times.
With a game like this though it's entirely up to you what kind of character you wanna role with and everyone tends to find what fits their style of play and character.
My spells outside my bonus classes I focused on elemental (fire and cold damaging spells). Firestorm will tear clustered enemies apart and winter grasp and cone cold are awesome at demobilizing units and especially elite ones. My favorite spell I have to say, though it may seem basic, is improved Mind blast. Nothing's better when you have enemies charging at you ready to tear you apart and with a press of the button they're either stunned or thrown back a few feet. Really cool spell and saved my arse many times.
With a game like this though it's entirely up to you what kind of character you wanna role with and everyone tends to find what fits their style of play and character.
#7
Posté 15 août 2011 - 04:59
thendcomes
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SuicidialBaby wrote...
Fireball - Mainly to get to Firestorm
Do not discount this spell. The 40% buff from the last patch has made this spell something enemies should fear every cooldown.
Fireball actually increased by 67%. Firestorm increased by ~40%.
#9
Posté 15 août 2011 - 08:36
ModicaSolis
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SuicidalBaby, thanks for the input.
A lot of your advice on Tactics were things I knew already (the Tactics system is great for people like me and, I assume, you who love doing testing and behavior analysis on the cause-and-effect of if:then statements and conditionals), but your advice on the abilities is much appreciated.
I am loathe to lose Haste, really. I'm going to try and fit it in in a way that doesn't compromise my build, although I really don't want to spend the points to get it. Oh well. Good to know I was right about Sleep. Glyph of Repulsion, after playing with a little, is quite useless. I was hoping it was as effective as it was in DA:O. Haven't made up my mind on Crushing Prison yet, but I'm leaning towards ignoring it.
One thing I am curious about is creating Stagger with my party composition. I've seen, here and there, that Sunder doesn't work the way it should. Is this true? If so, then my options for Staggering are going to be quite limited, it would seem.
A lot of your advice on Tactics were things I knew already (the Tactics system is great for people like me and, I assume, you who love doing testing and behavior analysis on the cause-and-effect of if:then statements and conditionals), but your advice on the abilities is much appreciated.
I am loathe to lose Haste, really. I'm going to try and fit it in in a way that doesn't compromise my build, although I really don't want to spend the points to get it. Oh well. Good to know I was right about Sleep. Glyph of Repulsion, after playing with a little, is quite useless. I was hoping it was as effective as it was in DA:O. Haven't made up my mind on Crushing Prison yet, but I'm leaning towards ignoring it.
One thing I am curious about is creating Stagger with my party composition. I've seen, here and there, that Sunder doesn't work the way it should. Is this true? If so, then my options for Staggering are going to be quite limited, it would seem.
#10
Posté 15 août 2011 - 09:22
Mocker22
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Aveline is stagger-on-a-stick every 10 seconds. She is your Everything!
-Tanks
-Dishes DPS and CCCs
-Bodyguard
-can add Rally
-Not Fenris
lol, anywho keep in mind you can always respec. Nothing will break your character, and I for one do enjoy choosing spells sometimes for RPing reasons too.
-Tanks
-Dishes DPS and CCCs
-Bodyguard
-can add Rally
-Not Fenris
lol, anywho keep in mind you can always respec. Nothing will break your character, and I for one do enjoy choosing spells sometimes for RPing reasons too.
#11
Posté 15 août 2011 - 09:36
AreleX
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sunder is bugged, and if you want staggers you are pretty much locked to aveline, since 1. she has a guaranteed stagger in shield bash, and 2. stagger causing abilities (cleave, sunder) got absolutely ruined in the patch.
#12
Posté 15 août 2011 - 10:05
SuicidalBaby
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ModicaSolis wrote...
SuicidalBaby, thanks for the input.
A lot of your advice on Tactics were things I knew already (the Tactics system is great for people like me and, I assume, you who love doing testing and behavior analysis on the cause-and-effect of if:then statements and conditionals), but your advice on the abilities is much appreciated.
I am loathe to lose Haste, really. I'm going to try and fit it in in a way that doesn't compromise my build, although I really don't want to spend the points to get it. Oh well. Good to know I was right about Sleep. Glyph of Repulsion, after playing with a little, is quite useless. I was hoping it was as effective as it was in DA:O. Haven't made up my mind on Crushing Prison yet, but I'm leaning towards ignoring it.
One thing I am curious about is creating Stagger with my party composition. I've seen, here and there, that Sunder doesn't work the way it should. Is this true? If so, then my options for Staggering are going to be quite limited, it would seem.
There are work arounds for the Sunder bug on 2h weilders which can nullify the impact of the bug. For the most part they are annoying to have to do.
One involves manually saving the game, you have to turn off auto-save, and using Maker's Sighs to reapply the passive buff after loading areas of the game. Im not exact on the fix, but I'm sure a google will reveal its formula.
ATM, Pommel Strike, Pummel, Shield Bash are the most reliable way to stagger enemies. Shield Bash being the most prominent. As the primary target is 100% Stagger, any nearby the impact are only 40% for additional applications.
Using Aveline+Varric can lead to some incredibly powerful combinations as she can gain stun immunity through her personal tree. Varric's Miasmic Flask and Fatiguing Fog turn anything surrounding Aveline into impotent targets ready for her to go to town on. Aveline is by far the best warrior in the game right now just because of the southern half of her personal tree. (and lack of bugs)
The problem I see though is that your build is focusing on raw AoE damage and you dont have anyone really working staggers. So I would not worry about it. Try giving Aveline the southern end of shield and sword, her southern personal tree, upgraded rally, bolster, and drop the rest into vanguard with upgraded might to share with everyone during paralyzed enemy time via upgraded Rally. work with Varric and Sebastion to create massive areas of Fatiguing Fog with suppliments from Pinning Shot. Which in turn, may promt you to upgrade Spirit Strike and Walking Bomb later on.
Haste:
If you dont want to grab haste, simply pick up, Pull of the Abyss sooner.
do something like this:
Pull of the Abyss
Glyph of Paralysis
Walking Bomb any normal
Varric has:
enemy: paralyzed: fatiguing fog
enemy: paralyzed: uccfnt
enemy: target of hawke: Rhyming Triplet/Bursting Arrow/ect...
Spirit Strike that same normal
Fireball that normal
SPOISIONS
BOOM
EXPLOSIONS
MICHEAL BAY
EXPOSEAL BAYIONS
MICHEXPLOSIONS
rinse, repeat.
Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 15 août 2011 - 10:23 .
#13
Posté 17 août 2011 - 02:57
ripstrawberry
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“Cone of Cold/Deep Freeze - Same as above”
If you don’t have people to take advantage of the brittle of deep freeze, I think you can afford to skip it. Unless you like going into mele range, you’ll probably only use it when enemies get close enough. The slow effect and the elemental effect should be enough CC for you to get away.
“Fireball - Mainly to get to Firestorm”
If you have spare points the upgrade to this and pyromancer are useful to increase your fire dmg. Higher fire dmg/area means more enemies panic. Panic means they are CCd.
“Rock Armor - You'd be stupid not to”
You’re not on nightmare. You have a party. You’re not a blood mage.
“Mind Blast - I don't know how useful this is, actually, but I need something to reduce threat”
I’d upgrade this to get the stun effect if you’re looking for a way to redirect threat.
“Barrier - This is a maybe. Could come in handy, but it doesn't really fit the idea I have in mind.”
I’d pass on this. I think the duration’s too short and it’s not worth the investment for the effect.
“Horror - One point wonder”
I’d get the upgrade for the DOT so you can also use it to dmg bosses. Get hex of torment too.
“(NOTE: Would get Sleep, except from the description (50% on Normal enemies? Pfft), Sleep sounds absolutely useless. True or not true?)”
Useless.
“Glyph of Paralysis/Glyph of Binding - This is pretty crucial. It works as a stop for those that didn't get hit by Pull of the Abyss, along with Horror and Winter's Grasp”
I’d get AOE dmg spells/upgrades 1st before these. Rely on the elemental effecs based on the dmg for CC. You won’t need to CC them really if they’re dead. Exceptions are POA and GR.
“Glyph of Repulsion - Made for holding down choke points or simply buying a party member (or myself) some time”
See above.
“Fist of the Maker (with both upgrades) - This is another control spell. The increased radius and reduced reuse time allows for more interruption of enemy activity”
I think you can afford to not get the upgrade to reduce cooldowns if you’ll be getting another spell that does dmg.
“Unshakable - I hesitate on this because I feel that if I get hit, I'm gonna be screwed anyway, but this could also come in handy to get an interrupt off.”
I’d go with a pass on this one unless you have a spare point. Better focus on CC and threat management
“This build would be used in conjunction with Fenris, Varric, and a fourth as-of-yet undecided party member (probably Sebastian since I hate Anders and Merrill and Isabela doesn't have much purpose in this build). I toyed with the idea of including Aveline or replacing Fenris with Aveline to set up guaranteed STAGGER for Fist of the Maker's bonus damage but I think overall, having her in wouldn't be too beneficial.”
I’d go w/ Sebastian too but replace Fenris w/ Aveline to add more staggers to the group.
“First of all, it's pretty heavy in terms of mana usage. Granted, the average fight wouldn't go much longer than Pull of the Abyss --> Gravitic Ring --> Outliers (Horror any Elites/Assassins and focus fire; Glyph of Para new spawns or any away from the main group) --> Fist of the Maker or Winter's Grasp for a quick Interrupt. Or something like that, anyway. I could always toss on a bunch of +regen gear (though that stuff doesn't seem to be all that effective) or +mana gear.”
+stamina/mana regen gear is crap. +stamina/mana or + will is better. Death siphon should be considered.
“Lastly, because I'm not all that knowledgable of the specific game mechanics, I'm not sure how good this build is period. I'm sure there's things that could be tweaked, that some of the spell choices I have are silly, and that there's more DPS I could do somewhere/somehow. “
You could do more dps by focusing +crit% and +crit dmg after mag. +x% elemental dmg is also good. Especially fire.
“3. Your main problem will be the absence of a haste. Without haste that's a party wide drop in dps, especially if you're going without anders. Though haste may be still bugged on the lower difficulties if I remember right. Firestorms are all the area dps you really need. If you use cold staves/spells and dps builds the ARW shouldn't be a problem.”
It is. Haste is pointless if you’re not on nightmare IMO.
If you don’t have people to take advantage of the brittle of deep freeze, I think you can afford to skip it. Unless you like going into mele range, you’ll probably only use it when enemies get close enough. The slow effect and the elemental effect should be enough CC for you to get away.
“Fireball - Mainly to get to Firestorm”
If you have spare points the upgrade to this and pyromancer are useful to increase your fire dmg. Higher fire dmg/area means more enemies panic. Panic means they are CCd.
“Rock Armor - You'd be stupid not to”
You’re not on nightmare. You have a party. You’re not a blood mage.
“Mind Blast - I don't know how useful this is, actually, but I need something to reduce threat”
I’d upgrade this to get the stun effect if you’re looking for a way to redirect threat.
“Barrier - This is a maybe. Could come in handy, but it doesn't really fit the idea I have in mind.”
I’d pass on this. I think the duration’s too short and it’s not worth the investment for the effect.
“Horror - One point wonder”
I’d get the upgrade for the DOT so you can also use it to dmg bosses. Get hex of torment too.
“(NOTE: Would get Sleep, except from the description (50% on Normal enemies? Pfft), Sleep sounds absolutely useless. True or not true?)”
Useless.
“Glyph of Paralysis/Glyph of Binding - This is pretty crucial. It works as a stop for those that didn't get hit by Pull of the Abyss, along with Horror and Winter's Grasp”
I’d get AOE dmg spells/upgrades 1st before these. Rely on the elemental effecs based on the dmg for CC. You won’t need to CC them really if they’re dead. Exceptions are POA and GR.
“Glyph of Repulsion - Made for holding down choke points or simply buying a party member (or myself) some time”
See above.
“Fist of the Maker (with both upgrades) - This is another control spell. The increased radius and reduced reuse time allows for more interruption of enemy activity”
I think you can afford to not get the upgrade to reduce cooldowns if you’ll be getting another spell that does dmg.
“Unshakable - I hesitate on this because I feel that if I get hit, I'm gonna be screwed anyway, but this could also come in handy to get an interrupt off.”
I’d go with a pass on this one unless you have a spare point. Better focus on CC and threat management
“This build would be used in conjunction with Fenris, Varric, and a fourth as-of-yet undecided party member (probably Sebastian since I hate Anders and Merrill and Isabela doesn't have much purpose in this build). I toyed with the idea of including Aveline or replacing Fenris with Aveline to set up guaranteed STAGGER for Fist of the Maker's bonus damage but I think overall, having her in wouldn't be too beneficial.”
I’d go w/ Sebastian too but replace Fenris w/ Aveline to add more staggers to the group.
“First of all, it's pretty heavy in terms of mana usage. Granted, the average fight wouldn't go much longer than Pull of the Abyss --> Gravitic Ring --> Outliers (Horror any Elites/Assassins and focus fire; Glyph of Para new spawns or any away from the main group) --> Fist of the Maker or Winter's Grasp for a quick Interrupt. Or something like that, anyway. I could always toss on a bunch of +regen gear (though that stuff doesn't seem to be all that effective) or +mana gear.”
+stamina/mana regen gear is crap. +stamina/mana or + will is better. Death siphon should be considered.
“Lastly, because I'm not all that knowledgable of the specific game mechanics, I'm not sure how good this build is period. I'm sure there's things that could be tweaked, that some of the spell choices I have are silly, and that there's more DPS I could do somewhere/somehow. “
You could do more dps by focusing +crit% and +crit dmg after mag. +x% elemental dmg is also good. Especially fire.
“3. Your main problem will be the absence of a haste. Without haste that's a party wide drop in dps, especially if you're going without anders. Though haste may be still bugged on the lower difficulties if I remember right. Firestorms are all the area dps you really need. If you use cold staves/spells and dps builds the ARW shouldn't be a problem.”
It is. Haste is pointless if you’re not on nightmare IMO.
#14
Posté 18 août 2011 - 01:32
Darchon_
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I worry about your party synergy.
You don't have anything to take advantage of STAGGER, or DISORIENT combos. All three of your companions are only good at capitalizing on BRITTLE, and you only have your 2 cold spells to share between them all.
There are a few ways to fix this
- Take Aveline over Fenris, and spec her with Scatter and Assail (upgraded), then spec either Varric or Seb heavily into the Sabotage Tree and the other heavy into the Archery/Bianca Tree. This gives you good DISORIENT and BRITTLE combos.
OR
- Take another mage instead of one of the rogues and give them the Primal Spec to take advantage of both STAGGER and DISORIENT.
I suppose you could also bring Isabella along instead of one of the other rogues to take advantage of STAGGER, but it's much more difficult to work these situations into tactics.
I see a few other things (like no HASTE!) but people have already covered them.
You don't have anything to take advantage of STAGGER, or DISORIENT combos. All three of your companions are only good at capitalizing on BRITTLE, and you only have your 2 cold spells to share between them all.
There are a few ways to fix this
- Take Aveline over Fenris, and spec her with Scatter and Assail (upgraded), then spec either Varric or Seb heavily into the Sabotage Tree and the other heavy into the Archery/Bianca Tree. This gives you good DISORIENT and BRITTLE combos.
OR
- Take another mage instead of one of the rogues and give them the Primal Spec to take advantage of both STAGGER and DISORIENT.
I suppose you could also bring Isabella along instead of one of the other rogues to take advantage of STAGGER, but it's much more difficult to work these situations into tactics.
I see a few other things (like no HASTE!) but people have already covered them.
#15
Posté 18 août 2011 - 07:08
ripstrawberry
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“I am loathe to lose Haste, really. I'm going to try and fit it in in a way that doesn't compromise my build, although I really don't want to spend the points to get it. Oh well. Good to know I was right about Sleep. Glyph of Repulsion, after playing with a little, is quite useless. I was hoping it was as effective as it was in DA:O. Haven't made up my mind on Crushing Prison yet, but I'm leaning towards ignoring it.”
I would say skip haste because you’re not on nightmare. It’s only been de-bugged on nightmare. Do get valiant aura though. Get heal as the prereq point. An extra way to heal besides poultices never hurts. Crushing prison is excellent vs. staggered elites/bosses because you end up paralyzing them and dealing decent DOT at the same time. Rally, death siphon and lyrium potion will handle mana needs enough so you can focus your attributes more on maxing mag then possibly dex->cun to increase your dps.
I would say skip haste because you’re not on nightmare. It’s only been de-bugged on nightmare. Do get valiant aura though. Get heal as the prereq point. An extra way to heal besides poultices never hurts. Crushing prison is excellent vs. staggered elites/bosses because you end up paralyzing them and dealing decent DOT at the same time. Rally, death siphon and lyrium potion will handle mana needs enough so you can focus your attributes more on maxing mag then possibly dex->cun to increase your dps.
#16
Posté 22 août 2011 - 12:24
Mr_Raider
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My suggestion for the first 23 points. I suggest you round the build out with a disorient finisher like spirit bolt or golem's fist. Talents are not in order of level up.
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Modifié par Mr_Raider, 22 août 2011 - 12:33 .
