177 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

Beauty Contest?

Really Crash? Wow.

[Sylvianus]

charmingcharlie wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
First A poll  should always ask things clearly, to simplify . Especially on Facebook.

" Like The one you want in your game ? " Yes and ? They can't work on it ?

Does it mean final production ? It's about a choice among 6 presets.

And the one we will have would be  probably the // 5.  But where do you see written that the fans can't continue the story of femshep //5 on this preset chosen ?

Anyway, Bioware can read like all of us on facebook (so many comments about the will to change some things for some presets ) and also on this forum and could very well meet strong demand. They have promised nothing.

Yes I would say it is pretty clear we get to vote on the one we want in the game.  That is ALL you can say anything else is speculation on your part.  They gave us a choice of 6 femsheps we voted on that basis and it is just "good manners" that Bioware should honour that choice people made.

As for listening to the comments that is a poor way of doing things.  Only about 10% of those that voted actually made a comment with regards to this poll.  So should they ignore the silent majority (90%) just because a few cry babies spat their dummies out because things weren't exactly right for them ?

Yes they did "promise" something they gave us a poll that clearly said we get to like the Femshep that will appear in the game (the poll states that clearly).  If they are now going to go back on that then I consider that a broken promise.

A poll of less than 100,000 people who votes, is already less than 10% of the majority who play Mass Effect. And among them 60 % didn't vote for blondeshep.

So., always willing to ignore those who have the ability to make their voices heard ?

This forum is less than 1% of the majority. Not even 10 000 people on it. Yet because of them or thanks to them many changes are made ​​by BioWare at the expense of the rest of the community. Million people.

So don't be too quick to condemn the minority who can express a trend.

Anyway, I do not think Bioware will do something in this direction.

[Ottemis]

Sylvianus wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
The 5 will be probably the postergirl, but that doesn't mean necessairly this current version.

Nonsensical.
Also, try reading my post, just a thought.

Nonsensical ? So let's choose a preset, but not allowed to work on ?   this makes sense, yeah. This doesn't  just enter in your considerations.

You, you think when you vote, nothing should be changed, others do not think it at all and would like to see changes that may well be the subject of an another vote on the same preset that has been chosen.

Do not confuse facts = / opinions, thank you.

And I read your post, but what are your considerations,  Bioware isn't obliged to share them.  your thoughts, they are cool, but they aren't the universal truth and the law that all we must follow.

Doesn't enter into my considerations? Sorry, I'm seriously confused.

I think if we get offered a vote, we either vote because we want to participate, or don't and make a statement against the vote from the get-go. Either way if the vote is offered X way, then i think it should be followed through X-way aswell yeah. Complaining after the fact is crying over spilled milk. I support CONSISTENCY. If you state to do something a certain way, then follow through and do it.

That isn't me saying AT ALL that people's cry for customisation of the preset shouldn't be heard, which I clearly stated in my post:

You got 6 choices, you picked the one you liked most. You want to customize her? Make sure you support the presets being custimizable and make THAT into a campaign because THAT means caring about people's
opinion a whole lot more then voting in great detail for the one design the mayority likes.
So, put all this energy into getting all 6 designs into the CC as customizable presets with better textures.

Modifié par Ottemis, 15 août 2011 - 12:51 .

[Puzzlewell]

Blondes are a "race" now? Well color me surprised...

I'm with Crash on this one. I personally didn't vote for #5 but the numbers are the numbers. Dragging this out further just kind of rubs me the wrong way. I know they want to make people happy but... I can't help but feel these borderline beauty contests border on incredibly superficial. It's the kind of thing that leads to people angsting that us FemShep fans are comparable to banshees with us stomping our feet and demanding more (demanding is not what happened. Requests and demands are two different things. It's not like any of us said we wouldn't preorder\\buy the game if FemShep didn't get more marketing. There are plenty of people here that state they won't buy the game if X isn't in there. *That* is far more extreme than anything I've seen from other FemShep fans).

When the comments from those voting consisted of a lot of "Number X is hawt", it just leads me to think that the vote wasn't really charting fair numbers of what people really wanted to see. I know it sounds silly but if people voted that don't plan to play FemShep, just went with the one they found most visually appealing, it's not a proper representation of what the community wants. Yes we'll probably always be divided, every player has their own vision of FemShep in their mind, but it's something better than voting just how visually appealing they might be.

[Ottemis]

You know what it is though, it's not a beauty contest untill people start calling it that.
The negativity made something cool into something degrading, if you ask me.
Imho we threw in our own windows, it's not so much a fault with the idea as the people the opportunity to participate was offered to.

[Captain Crash]

Phaedon wrote...

Beauty Contest?

Really Crash? Wow.

Im just repeating what Chris Priestly himself called it. As well as several other media sites.

"However, this WAS essentially a beauty contest..." - Chris Priestly

http://social.biowar...8880/13#8023028


Plus it makes the statement that this is what the vote will be remembered for. Especailly if they continue down this path and carry on with more options.


This should be a celebration that Bioware have given us the choice and that femshep finally gets some recognistion.  But its become overshadowed and will carry on especially if Bioware go the direction the tweet is leading on.

[Sylvianus]

Ottemis wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
The 5 will be probably the postergirl, but that doesn't mean necessairly this current version.

Nonsensical.
Also, try reading my post, just a thought.

Nonsensical ? So let's choose a preset, but not allowed to work on ?   this makes sense, yeah. This doesn't  just enter in your considerations.

You, you think when you vote, nothing should be changed, others do not think it at all and would like to see changes that may well be the subject of an another vote on the same preset that has been chosen.

Do not confuse facts = / opinions, thank you.

And I read your post, but what are your considerations,  Bioware isn't obliged to share them.  your thoughts, they are cool, but they aren't the universal truth and the law that all we must follow.

Doesn't enter into my considerations? Sorry, I'm seriously confused.

I think if we get offered a vote, we either vote because we want to participate, or don't and make a statement against the vote from the get-go. Either way if the vote is offered X way, then i think it should be followed through X-way aswell yeah. Complaining after the fact is crying over spilled milk. I support CONSISTENCY. If you state to do something a certain way, then follow through and do it.

This is not crying to vote for a preset and ask in the same time it appear more mature for a 29 year old woman when she seems to have 19 . Many have said that  DURING the vote, not after. Since the beginning, even if did vote for blondeshep.

This is not crying to vote for the preset 4 hoping it doesn't have red hair in the middle of a dark hair, and hasn't hair before the eyes for a soldier.

The preset may not have been "perfect ", at the beginning and have been chosen by default from a selection of some sort. If Bioware offers the possibility to solve large applications, such as removing the hair before the eyes, offering several models of the same preset,  why not.

No one forces them to meet this demand. If they do, that's because they believe these considerations are quite credible and important.

And if Bioware could give us all the presets and the possibilities to modify them, then yes it would be useless to talk about change. But I really doubt it.

Rather, I think we'll have a single preset and we will not have choices. There will be the custom character, yes, but that is still less worked than the defaultshep.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 août 2011 - 01:09 .

[charmingcharlie]

Sylvianus wrote...
A poll of less than 100,000 people who votes, is already less than 10% of the majority who play Mass Effect. And among them 60 % didn't vote for blondeshep.

Perhaps they should've voted then eh   After all the poll clearly says "the one with the MOST likes wins".  It does not say "the femshep people **** and moan about in the comments will be altered to fit said ****ing and moaning" poll

Sylvianus wrote... So., always willing to ignore those who have the ability to make their voices heard ?

Well I feel it is better to go with the wishes of the 32,000 people that voted for blonde femshep over a thousand (if that) that whined about her being blonde.  The poll was clear the femshep with the most likes WINS, end of discussion.  

Now of course the poll is not legally binding and Bioware are free to do whatever they like.  However I personally would consider it pretty bad form for them to totally ignore the results of this poll just because of a vocal minority.

Sylvianus wrote... This forum is less than 1% of the majority. Not even 10 000 people on it. Yet because of them or thanks to them many changes are made ​​by BioWare at the expense of the rest of the community. Million people.

Well at least I know who to blame for some of the rubbish in ME 2 then.

Sylvianus wrote...So don't be too quick to condemn the minority who can express a trend.

How about you don't be so quick to ignore the people that actually voted for femshep 5 then eh ? Just because some one makes a comment does not make their opinion more important than some one that voted and didn't leave a comment.  Femshep No 5 got 32,000 votes which is twice as many as the second place femshep.

Now I agree it is not an "outright" majority but that would've been difficult for any of the femsheps to achieve since there were six options.  However the poll is very clear, the winner is not the one with an outright majority.  The winner is the one with the MOST likes.  That winner is femshep 5 and as a matter of integrity Bioware should stick to the result and carry it through.

Modifié par charmingcharlie, 15 août 2011 - 01:17 .

[Legbiter]

....because we homely gals feel threatened....

[Sylvianus]

charmingcharlie wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
 A poll of less than 100,000 people who votes, is already less than 10% of the majority who play Mass Effect. And among them 60 % didn't vote for blondeshep.

1- Perhaps they should've voted then eh   After all the poll clearly says "the one with the MOST likes wins".  It does not say "the femshep people **** and moan about in the comments will be altered to fit said ****ing and moaning" poll

Sylvianus wrote... This forum is less than 1% of the majority. Not even 10 000 people on it. Yet because of them or thanks to them many changes are made ​​by BioWare at the expense of the rest of the community. Million people.

2- Well at least I know who to blame for some of the rubbish in ME 2 then.

1 - Mhh I doubt that the complaints had any real influence on Bioware. If they decided to continue on femshep //5, it would be mainly with their own considerations.

I saw more people complaining about those who complained, ten times more, than those who complained really about femshep blonde. Others have simply indicated their preference about hair color , without really to complain. All that have just showed a trend, other that Femshep // 5 loved by many people.

2- Well I kinda agree.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 août 2011 - 01:29 .

[MarchWaltz]

I honestly think they should jennifere hale pick instead of us

[Arppis]

marshalleck wrote...

People just mad that the pretty white girl won, and they're jealous/resentful. Deal with it

Not to mention blonde.

They should stick with this, or let the lead designer pick the one he likes.

Modifié par Arppis, 15 août 2011 - 01:37 .

[SilentK]

Ottemis wrote...

You know what it is though, it's not a beauty contest untill people start calling it that.
The negativity made something cool into something degrading, if you ask me.
Imho we threw in our own windows, it's not so much a fault with the idea as the people the opportunity to participate was offered to.

I was pretty happy about the whole thing, voted for nr 5 pretty early. Well, before all the complaining started. She doesn't look like any of the FemShep's I have made myself so far but I would love to play it through with her. Hope that they will keep her and get the trailer going. I think it's fun to finally see her having some attention. I really don't think that they will let FemShep look 19 in-game. Perhaps it would have been better if they had just made a descision on their own and presented her and that would have been it but I really don't see it as them trying to milk this. They just asked on twitter if people wanted FemShep, then they tried to get a feel for who this FemShep would be.

I'm gonna try to hold on to my happy-feelings for the whole thing. I really want to see the trailer with the FemShep I voted for     
    
If they change her a little that's no big problem. But I would like to see a little resemblance at least.

Modifié par SilentK, 15 août 2011 - 01:39 .

[InfiniteCuts]

It was a bad idea to begin with... how they failed to see the potential controversy in doing something like this is beyond me. At the end of the day, it was absolutely a beauty contest and the result was set in stone before voting began. Some of the responses here show the bias, and anyone that has put any thought into issues surrounding perceptions of beauty in the west knows this was a bad idea. Way to not show trust in your artists/writers, whoever thought this up.

[Captain Crash]

Thrombin wrote...

Femshep #5 won the vote but only because she was the best of the models presented. It was blatantly clear that a lot of people were not happy with the options presented.

Points were made that all of them looked too young, many who voted for #5 were voting for hair style but wanted a different colour. I don't think Bioware can be at all confident that #5 is really what people want.

If they do a new poll with options more akin to what the community have been asking for then where's the harm?

If people still want #5 then #5 will win again. If not, then they were right to re poll. I don't see the downside?

Actually this a interesting take on the situation.

Personally I think carrying it on, or adding new options and adjustments is harmful.  As said its already becoming viewed as Biowares "beauty contest" and carrying on adding to it is going to leave a negative lasting image.  Its no longer about the CE Box or the Trailer.  Its all about her looks and that whats going to be remembered.  Not the fact femshep finally got recognition, but the fact Bioware created a marketing stunt and an image they couldnt decide on and the fans diagreed with each other over.


I mean if they redo them all again and do a new contest what then?  The same things will be happening. People will be unhappy one of them won, or they wish another had a different hair colour.  Additionally the vote may even be closer with some new designs and the new winning shep may have for example 26% of the vote. What then? You have a crowd now of 74% who are unhappy with the new look.    Are you going to do yet another poll?  


Its a situation where not everyone will be happy.  Simple fact!  But Blonde Shep does have a large chunk of the votes and Bioware should stick to it.   Tweeking and adding new Shepards will make the situation even worse in my eyes.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 15 août 2011 - 02:01 .

[miraclemight]

I don't know why people are becoming too troubled with this. Shepard is customizable. If you don't like how her default appearance looks, create one yourself.

(Disclaimer- I'm not a fan of blonde hair and extremely sweet faces, but does it matter? New game> character creation)

[Arppis]

People who voted the hairstyle were just loud, doubt they were the majority.

[Ottemis]

Also the remarks that a 29 year old should look older then the presets we've been offered to vote on (and what I'm about to say has been said before by others aswell):
Not all 30 year olds look like a wet towel, are twinkled and weathered and smell like old sock you know...
When you're wrestling in mud that just means you've got mud on your face, not that you have to look like you eat rock and sh*t dynamite, been rolling in a pigsty 24-7 and never heard of a comb. Now this is an exaggeration, but the statement is rather insulting.

Something else that's been said before:
Mass Effect is staged in the future, genetic manipulation is a hot topic and over the decades humans have evolved to live longer by their healthier way of living and the eradication of more and more disease.
Aside from that, what ages skin considerably? Smoking for one. I've seen ONE Batarian smoke in Mass Effect, my guess is, that makes quite the difference too. (aside from TiM, granted)

Sylvianus wrote...

And if Bioware could give us all the presets and the possibilities to modify them, then yes it would be useless to talk about change. But I really doubt it.

Rather, I think we'll have a single preset and we will not have choices. There will be the custom character, yes, but that is still less worked than the defaultshep.

Alot of people doubted femshep ever getitng the recognition and marketting she's getting now, what it took in the end was people asking for it.
I would think asking for the presets ingame is a much more viable idea then asking for another vote, which will, as crash also pointed out, no doubt not change the fact that people complain about it.
You can't make everyone happy here, it's completely impossible.

Modifié par Ottemis, 15 août 2011 - 02:03 .

[PhatSeeJay]

I'll just put this here.

Article quote...

I asked Silverman whether the results of the Facebook voting are going to be absolutely definitive.

"That has been the plan since we first came up with the idea and I don't see why we would change it now. That said, we have received some comments from people that they like -- the hair style of one with the color of another -- so we may decide to take the winning one and do a 2nd round of voting where we change some cosmetic things like hair and eye color just to ensure that fans get the FemShep they want."

[Uhh.. Jonah]

I think they may have just said that to please the fan that tweeted them.

[Mims]

A second round is a recipe for disaster. No matter what happens, you won't be able to win:

Either A, the blonde Shepard will win again. People outraged by "blonde ideal" will be doubly outraged now that the facebook masses has confirmed that hairstyle was not the determining factor, but the simple fact she was blonde.

Or B, by making a new vote to determine hair/skin color... you're effectively saying there's something 'wrong' with blonde hair. Like an apology for making her blonde, because clearly, a blonde could never save the galaxy.

Whether or not you like the results, we just need to shut the book on this and move on.

[Thrombin]

At the end of the day it's all publicity for femshep and ME3. The longer they draw things out, particularly if it's controversial, the more these topics appear in the press.

They won't even need to market femshep at all at this rate.

I say, it's all good

[Captain Crash]

Contrary to popular belief not all publicity is good publicity. Especially things that are easily debated or controversial. She becoming the centre of attention for all the wrong reasons at the moment.

[Nimrodell]

Captain Crash wrote...

Thrombin wrote...

Femshep #5 won the vote but only because she was the best of the models presented. It was blatantly clear that a lot of people were not happy with the options presented.

Points were made that all of them looked too young, many who voted for #5 were voting for hair style but wanted a different colour. I don't think Bioware can be at all confident that #5 is really what people want.

If they do a new poll with options more akin to what the community have been asking for then where's the harm?

If people still want #5 then #5 will win again. If not, then they were right to re poll. I don't see the downside?

Actually this a interesting take on the situation.

Personally I think carrying it on, or adding new options and adjustments is harmful.  As said its already becoming viewed as Biowares "beauty contest" and carrying on adding to it is going to leave a negative lasting image.  Its no longer about the CE Box or the Trailer.  Its all about her looks and that whats going to be remembered.  Not the fact femshep finally got recognition, but the fact Bioware created a marketing stunt and an image they couldnt decide on and the fans diagreed with each other over.


I mean if they redo them all again and do a new contest what then?  The same things will be happening. People will be unhappy one of them won, or they wish another had a different hair colour.  Additionally the vote may even be closer with some new designs and the new winning shep may have for example 26% of the vote. What then? You have a crowd now of 74% who are unhappy with the new look.    Are you going to do yet another poll?  


Its a situation where not everyone will be happy.  Simple fact!  But Blonde Shep does have a large chunk of the votes and Bioware should stick to it.   Tweeking and adding new Shepards will make the situation even worse in my eyes.

Agreed. I felt extatic when I read that BW will finally make trailer for femShep and it was miraculous victory, 'cause the players of both genders pulled it through and it is something that is happening for the first time in gaming history - one hero, both gender versions getting equal recognition in the media... and then the poll happened and I was stunned by many comments, especially 'cause of the fact that we all have our own canon femSheps. Many posts just kept depicting how shallow we are, full of prejudices, how we take surface to judge one's personality. Just plagued by stereotypes. Remember that huge topic here on Sheps blonde hair? Or that PC Gamer article (I was actually ashamed for being the same gender as the author - I guess she still has issues from high school).

I support your initiative whole-heartedly. Important thing happened, our female version of Shepard got huge recognition finally and it should progress on that way. Blonde Shepard got majority of votes, she is beautiful (as femShep should be, being military or smart doesn't mean being ugly or too masculine - that's just another stereotype imposed on us and I find it very offensive tbh) - make that trailer already and let us see 'true' Shepard finally.

[Ottemis]

@Nimrodell: Agreed.

Highlighting

Or that PC Gamer article (I was actually ashamed for being the same gender as the author - I guess she still has issues from high school).

Fully agreed, I cringed something fierce.

Modifié par Ottemis, 15 août 2011 - 02:35 .