138 réponses à ce sujet

[Bluko]

People complain about everything, and it's not exclusive to BSN trust me. People complain to me every day. Do I smack them in the face and tell them to be silent and obey my will because I know what it is best? Well not very often...

Heck there are people who even complain about the complaining of others.

And then there are people like me complaining about the complaining of the complainers! And then someone will complain about me complaining about the complaining of the complainers!

You cannot break the cycle.

[Ryzaki]

BW's not a child they can handle some trolling. If they can't they should stay off the forums.  And I'm not trying to be a jerk justbeing honest. People on the internet are gonna be jerks. That's just the way it is. You can argue with them, ignore them, or not go on the forums period. 

That said criticism and trolling are not the same thing. Some people are far to fond of lumping anything negative into the trolling pile.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 août 2011 - 05:45 .

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Oh, I can. I just disagree with "civility at all times."

Civility when it's deserved. Respect when it's earned. 

The fact that you have the notion that civility is an option in a public forum is an option just makes me stare in the screen in a weird manner.

The fact that you think it isn't paints you as naive.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Bluko wrote...



You cannot break the cycle.

Reapers are the worst complainers of all?

[King Minos]

You can't blame BSN members, they care alot about bioware games but when bioware start to cater towards the crowd that love short simple single player games with an emphasis on multiplayer the they are bound to get upset. The members are just very outspoken, while their comments are insulting to bioware itself, you can bet your ass they will still buy their games and show support irony development.

[King Minos]

Sorry double post, not 'irony development'I meant 'during development'.

[Bluko]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

Bluko wrote...



You cannot break the cycle.

Reapers are the worst complainers of all?

Well when is the last time Harbinger or Sovereign said anything nice about Humans? It's always on and on about how we are "bacteria" and how everything we do is pointless.

Sounds like a bunch of ungrateful God machines who can't accept the fact they're getting owned.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
The fact that you think it isn't paints you as naive.

Um, no.

Civility is an option for you outside of a forum with rules. You can literally treat everyone like sh*t, because there is no written rule that you shouldn't be an ass to other people.

That doesn't apply to a forum, because:

• a) Lack of civility is punishable,
• Something completely not tolerated in a normal, non-porn posting, non-whining, non-retarded, non-Mass Effect community. 

I don't care if you  think that your behavior is to be tolerated, the forum rules clearly state that it's not.

[Dionkey]

Brenon Holmes wrote...
*snip*

I do not believe the customer is always right. However, I do believe that you should listen to your long time customers that have been here since the beginning, even if there are less of them than new customers that you could get by going against your long time supporters. I hope you understand where I am coming from.

Modifié par Dionkey, 16 août 2011 - 05:53 .

[marshalleck]

Phaedon, nobody was asking whether it will or should be tolerated or if it's against forum rules. Even so, that still doesn't mean people won't do it.

Spoilers are also supposed to be off limits in certain forums, but that doesn't prevent people from posting them and expecting people to follow that directive is naive and an exercise in frustration/futility, because people are self-interested and in many cases just don't care to read the tiny header text which says "no spoilers."

Thanks for you non-contribution to the discussion. If I wanted the site rules, I could just click on the link at the bottom of the page (see? I did know it's there!) I'd wish you luck on your campaign to become a moderator, but frankly I think you'd be terrible at remaining impartial and not abusing your privilege.

Modifié par marshalleck, 16 août 2011 - 05:56 .

[Brenon Holmes]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I'm not talking about myself. In the article we're refering to, which you've probably read by now, the writer is over the top with their description of how horrible the Mass Effect (I don't think they meant BSN by itself) fans tend to be.

I personally have not encountered what they spoke of: calling the devs names and "bullying." This could be because of my low exposure (I stay around the ME3 General Discussion subforum), or it could be because their being "melodramatic," as mentioned by other people here.

And that's probably fair... I do know that there were some incidences a while back involving specific developers, which were probably unwarranted. I didn't mean to single you out specifically... it's simply that I've seen that particular phrase "The Customer is always right" a fair number of times now... usually used to reinforce someone's opinion on a given topic...

As I said, I wasn't speaking of myself, I was speaking of all of the fans. And I'm not saying that Bioware needs to take notice of only me. But I am saying that when a croud is very vocal about a game (DA2--I haven't even played it, haven't even really been over to the forums, but the overwelming majority of comments about it are negative) Bioware sure needs to take notice. That's what the article seems to be criticizing.

Again, that's fair... and I'm sure that the DA guys have taken notice and probably have some creative plans on how to deal with the reception. :happy:

And for the record, I think it's great that you guys come onto these forums. I know you don't have to do that. I'm not really active anywhere else, and I don't know of any other developer that has such a cool site. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't point out inconsistencies and problems.

Hope I don't come off as a jerk.

Nope, not at all! In general I think a lot of the "pointing out inconsistencies and problems" stuff has been pretty good. I can only think of a few discussions off the top of my head in the ME3 general discussion area that have been kind of over the top. So with respect to the ME3 general discussion, you probably have a point... :happy:

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 16 août 2011 - 05:55 .

[AtreiyaN7]

BasilKarlo wrote...

It's easy to say that Bioware listens to the fans and we abuse them but that's not really the case. Look at their recent offerings and tell me that's true. Origins was a financial and critical hit, but they they went the opposite direction of what the fans wanted for DA2. Arrival was abysmal compared to LotSB even though pretty much everyone said that LotSB was the new standard for ME2 DLC to meet. It's awesome that they have this BSN for us to congregate and share our opinions, but we're not just a bunch of ungrateful pissants whining about things not being perfect. DA2 was just a mediocre game at best and Arrival was rushed and slapped together.

I've been around here for a long time, and I have seen posters here who do behave with all the sensitivity of wild baboons. They swear, they insult the devs left and right, they call them liars, call them incompetent and say all kinds of other particularly nasty things.

I'm not surprised by the terrible reputation these forums have. You know why? Because the people here ranting in anger and swearing and calling for people to be fired, etc. deserve that reputation. They earned that. I'd be embarrassed to be associated with certain forumites here to be honest. In my job, I've had to control my anger (because, trust me, there are plenty of ways for authors to drive a book designer up the wall). When I communicate with author reps about issues with an author's edits or requests, I learned something really important: keep your inside voice INSIDE.

If I want to fume/rage/rant, then I do that in the privacy of my home office or vent with friends. In work e-mails, I generally try to conduct myself with some measure of professionalism and detachment when I give feedback and keep any animosity I have towards authors out of things. The ARs and I occasionally vent to each other over someone who's particularly disagreeable, and I'm guilty of slipping when an author's been jerking me around, but otherwise, professionalism is the key. For some forumites here, being civil/respectful (for the most part) when expressing their frustrations and moderating their tone is impossible.

[Rockworm503]

Just got this from Youtube its in a video about Ashley's new look

"To be honest she turned from a tanned tom-boy to a ****ing **** in high heels?...Thats EA trying to push the barrier of bull**** for ya!

Mass Effect 1 - Amazing

Mass Effect 2 - Amazing, but kind of annoying mining game...

Mass Halo Call of Duty Effect Bisexual Rape 3 - Who the **** made this and where do they live so we can egg their house, **** in their lawns, **** their dogs and ****** in their cars gas tank. **** those bastards for ****ing up Mass Effect!"

I'm sitting here scratching my head.
Not only the amount of assuming but its all in relation to a short 1 minute long video showing Ashley's looking from the first game to her new look in the 3rd.
This guy wants blood and he wants it bad. One little picture of Ashley has turned this guy into a raving maniac. It boggles the mind. It is no doubt a knee jerk reaction.
In comparison youtube makes people on here look like nice gentlemen who always help the elderly.

[Leonia]

Bluko wrote...

People complain about everything, and it's not exclusive to BSN trust me. People complain to me every day. Do I smack them in the face and tell them to be silent and obey my will because I know what it is best? Well not very often...

Heck there are people who even complain about the complaining of others.

And then there are people like me complaining about the complaining of the complainers! And then someone will complain about me complaining about the complaining of the complainers!

You cannot break the cycle.

Is that a cycle that repeats every 50,000 years or so?

I think this thread is getting seriously off-topic, for what it's worth.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...

Phaedon, nobody was asking whether it will or should be tolerated or if it's against forum rules. Even so, that still doesn't mean people won't do it. 

Spoilers are also supposed to be off limits in certain forums, but that doesn't prevent people from posting them and expecting people to follow that directive is naive, because people are self-interested and in many cases just don't care to read the tiny header text which says "no spoilers."

Thanks for you non-contribution to the discussion.

Hint: That's just as, or less valid than saying that posting pornography of nude quarians and salarians is an option.

Why? Yes, you "can" do it. Until your post is reported, deleted, and you get trolled away from posting them for weeks.

So, it either seems that you posted something stupid initially which you want to cover up, or that it's you who doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. 

No, posting "Hack Walters", or "BioWare Kool Aid", or " *sigh* ~Button Awesome >.> <.< >.<" or overabusing the word "mainstream".


Civility and non-constructive criticism are not things that BioWare has to earn from you, it's the things that you owe to them by taking up server space (for free) every time you post.

Modifié par Phaedon, 16 août 2011 - 06:00 .

[GoG ToXiC]

I just complain about those who complain. The game will turn out however turns out. No amount of unfounded ****ing and complaining will change that. Example: People whining about multiplayer RUMORS when they don't even know if they're true, let alone what the multiplayer might mean. For all we know, it could be some incredibly entertaining mode that makes the game worth that much more. Drives me insane when people complain about things they don't know anything about. And now here I am complaining more... I guess the cycle's unbreakable.

[Dionkey]

Rockworm503 wrote...
*snip*

The only problem I have with Bioware is there tendency to change things so drastically and then pass it off as something else ot make themselves look good. DA2 was just a terrible game, and I don't blame the ME team or the TOR team for that. However, Bioware/EA likes to take things in games that have a problem and completely remove them to make new customers happy. Inventory, for example, was completely removed from the game. Would it have been difficult to refine? Not really, just get rid of the pages of loot and make money worth something. Instead, they just scrapped the entire thing. Same thing with exploration. The presentation and combat were a step up, but it's as if they try to disguise going in a big-budget-shooter route. I don't really find this justifiable and I feel as if they are being bottlenecked by EA too much.

EDIT: I should have noted that I was discussing ME2 there. Might have been a bit confusing.

Modifié par Dionkey, 16 août 2011 - 06:06 .

[javierabegazo]

@Marshalleck and Phaedon

If you wish to continue your conversation over your interpretations of the "liberties" of the User here, on the Forums, and the application of the Site Rules, please do so via PM.

Thanks guys.

[Wusword77]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
As I said, I wasn't speaking of myself, I was speaking of all of the fans. And I'm not saying that Bioware needs to take notice of only me. But I am saying that when a croud is very vocal about a game (DA2--I haven't even played it, haven't even really been over to the forums, but the overwelming majority of comments about it are negative) Bioware sure needs to take notice. That's what the article seems to be criticizing.

This is the internet.  EVERYONE is vocal because almost NOTHING is ever deleted and is one google/yahoo/bing/ask search away from being found.  A company like Bioware can't base the direction of their games on the words of a few hundred (maybe a thousand) people who purchased their games, which sell hundreds of thousands if not millions of copies.  While their words could have an impact, like when they all say the same thing (I'm looking at YOU re-use of levels), much of what is said is done in a manor that doesn't help anyone.

You also don't speak for me, let alone all of the fans Bioware has.  it is just arrogance on your part to assume that you speak for the WHOLE of the Bioware community on any subject.

Also the only people I have met that ever use the phrase "The customer is always right" has never worked with an actual customer a day in their lives.  Working in retail my entire working life (including a gaming store) I can tell you the majority of the time the customer is indeed wrong.  Most of the time they don't even know what they want, it's why you see many arguments about ME2/DA2 calling for a return to DA:O/ME1.  Customers don't tend to have originality and they only want what has worked for them before (it's why Branding works so well).


As for the article in the OP, I agree with both sides of posters in this thread.  The article has a good message, don't be a dick when voicing your opinion about the flaws in a game, but it was wrapped in Fanboy bubble wrap.  Bioware does treat us better then most companies in regards to feed back, Lair of the Shadowbroker and Legacy are prime examples of this, but that doesn't mean they treat us like "family."

[Rockworm503]

Dionkey wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...
*snip*

The only problem I have with Bioware is there tendency to change things so drastically and then pass it off as something else ot make themselves look good. DA2 was just a terrible game, and I don't blame the ME team or the TOR team for that. However, Bioware/EA likes to take things in games that have a problem and completely remove them to make new customers happy. Inventory, for example, was completely removed from the game. Would it have been difficult to refine? Not really, just get rid of the pages of loot and make money worth something. Instead, they just scrapped the entire thing. Same thing with exploration. The presentation and combat were a step up, but it's as if they try to disguise going in a big-budget-shooter route. I don't really find this justifiable and I feel as if they are being bottlenecked by EA too much.

EDIT: I should have noted that I was discussing ME2 there. Might have been a bit confusing.

Ok but what does that have to do with what I posted?
You are being way to rational and nice here add some swears and hyperbole... Assume the worst would be great too.

[Dionkey]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...
*snip*

The only problem I have with Bioware is there tendency to change things so drastically and then pass it off as something else ot make themselves look good. DA2 was just a terrible game, and I don't blame the ME team or the TOR team for that. However, Bioware/EA likes to take things in games that have a problem and completely remove them to make new customers happy. Inventory, for example, was completely removed from the game. Would it have been difficult to refine? Not really, just get rid of the pages of loot and make money worth something. Instead, they just scrapped the entire thing. Same thing with exploration. The presentation and combat were a step up, but it's as if they try to disguise going in a big-budget-shooter route. I don't really find this justifiable and I feel as if they are being bottlenecked by EA too much.

EDIT: I should have noted that I was discussing ME2 there. Might have been a bit confusing.

Ok but what does that have to do with what I posted?
You are being way to rational and nice here add some swears and hyperbole... Assume the worst would be great too.

Haha, I was just trying to relate Youtube people's useless concerns to perhaps something more practical that many fans complain about here on the forums.:happy: