85 réponses à ce sujet

[Faust1979]

 it's probably already been speculated but it's most likely the same magic that kept Wynne alive. I've never killed Lelianna myself in any of the playthroughs good or bad

[Sundance31us]

She has DM grace and cannot be killed.

[TEWR]

I doubt Leliana got possessed by a spirit of faith. I would think there's only one spirit of faith, and that spirit's residing in Wynne.

[Faust1979]

Filament wrote...

The gauntlet is shifted into a layer of the Fade due to all of the lyrium in the walls, that is my current favorite theory. So when she dies in the Fade, she doesn't actually die, same as your companions in Feynriel's dream.

that's an awesome theory

[Nerdage]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I doubt Leliana got possessed by a spirit of faith. I would think there's only one spirit of faith, and that spirit's residing in Wynne.

Why do you say there's only one? There are countless numbers of each kind of 'demon', which are ultimately just spirits, why not multiple 'nice' spirits of each kind, too?

Not that I think she is possesed. Just wondering.

Modifié par nerdage, 16 août 2011 - 03:37 .

[devSin]

I bet it's because she's twins.

[stewie1974]

She wears chantry underwear.

[addiction21]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I doubt Leliana got possessed by a spirit of faith. I would think there's only one spirit of faith, and that spirit's residing in Wynne.

Well as I understand it there are not just one "spirit" of whatever. THey are just more rare then demons and on top of that they are less likely to mingle with those outside of the fade.

The whole Lelianna thing looks to me as the writers having a larger story to involve her in so there she is.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I doubt Leliana got possessed by a spirit of faith. I would think there's only one spirit of faith, and that spirit's residing in Wynne.

Why would there be one spirit of faith?

Filament wrote...

The gauntlet is shifted into a layer of the Fade due to all of the lyrium in the walls, that is my current favorite theory. So when she dies in the Fade, she doesn't actually die, same as your companions in Feynriel's dream.

They'd know if they left their bodies. Also, since they can take the ashes (and any treasure) with them out of the place, that means the only way it's the Fade is if they went in physically. I don't think I need to explain the problem with that.

[Zeevico]

A Wizard Did It.

[addiction21]

Zeevico wrote...

A Wizard Did It.

This is Dragon Age!!!



Sandal did it!

[SpockLives]

addiction21 wrote...

Zeevico wrote...

A Wizard Did It.

This is Dragon Age!!!



Sandal did it!

I approve.
Warden: "Sandal, how did you bring Leliana back to life?!"
Sandal: "Not Enchantment!"

[nuclearpengu1nn]

Only works with mages

[TEWR]

nerdage wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I doubt Leliana got possessed by a spirit of faith. I would think there's only one spirit of faith, and that spirit's residing in Wynne.

Why do you say there's only one? There are countless numbers of each kind of 'demon', which are ultimately just spirits, why not multiple 'nice' spirits of each kind, too?

Not that I think she is possesed. Just wondering.

Demons prey on different facets of the human psyche: Audacity, Allure, Hubris, Torpor, etc. So far, we've never encountered multiple demons with the same name. We haven't met two Allures, or two Audacity type demons.

Audacity is the act of being incredibly bold, while hubris is excessive pride. Both deal with pride, but in vastly different ways. Much like how Allure and Caress are both facets of Desire, but in different ways (and Desire even extends to greed).

Of course, each demon represents the same trait, but in different ways. So Audacity and Hubris, while both are Pride Demons, are not the same type of pride demon.

There may be a spirit of belief, or hope, or truth, or whatever else is a synonym for faith in some way. But they're not the same exact spirit, which was my point.

Or I'm actually wrong and this entire post was a waste of space. It doesn't matter.

Also, I'd feel like it would be a giant cop out if they resorted to that.


EDIT: Also, I wasn't actually being serious up there with my first post. I just felt like making a kinda jokey (but not really funny) remark.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 août 2011 - 04:20 .

[T3H Fish]

SpockLives wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Zeevico wrote...

A Wizard Did It.

This is Dragon Age!!!



Sandal did it!

I approve.
Warden: "Sandal, how did you bring Leliana back to life?!"
Sandal: "Not Enchantment!"

I approve of this theory as well, simply because Sandal makes the coolest and most unimaginable things happen. I still wish you could take that frozen ogre and set it up somewhere in the estate as a prize.

Filament wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

They'd know if they left their bodies. Also, since they can take the ashes (and any treasure) with them out of the place, that means the only way it's the Fade is if they went in physically. I don't think I need to explain the problem with that.

So what was Amgarrak then? The mechanism they used to trap the Harvester there certainly seemed like it was using different layers of the Fade, what with the music and all. Maybe a high concentration of lyrium tears the veil? Or it can create an 'artificial Fade' bubble in Thedas where the normal laws of the universe don't apply? Whatever the means, Amgarrak's trap was able to make things in one phase incorporeal or undetectable to things in another phase, so it could be a possibility that taking a grievous wound in one phase wouldn't be true death.

The problem with that is that the Fade traps only existed within that Thaig (as far as we know, since it was created under the supervision of the Magisters), then the dwarves sealed it away along with the Harvester. In the Gauntlet, as far as I know, the Veil is only thin enough there to allow interaction with spirits, not for anyone to actually physically enter the Fade from that location.

Modifié par T3H Fish, 16 août 2011 - 04:27 .

[Rifneno]

Filament wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

They'd know if they left their bodies. Also, since they can take the ashes (and any treasure) with them out of the place, that means the only way it's the Fade is if they went in physically. I don't think I need to explain the problem with that.

So what was Amgarrak then? The mechanism they used to trap the Harvester there certainly seemed like it was using different layers of the Fade, what with the music and all. Maybe a high concentration of lyrium tears the veil? Or it can create an 'artificial Fade' bubble in Thedas where the normal laws of the universe don't apply? Whatever the means, Amgarrak's trap was able to make things in one phase incorporeal or undetectable to things in another phase, so it could be a possibility that taking a grievous wound in one phase wouldn't be true death.

I don't know what the deal was with Amgarrak.  But I do know the switches didn't transport you into a part of the fade that looks exactly like the real thaig except with a colored filter, though.

[T3H Fish]

Filament wrote...

That area in the Fade in Awakening looked like the Blackmarsh village before it turned into a wasteland. Feynriel's dream looked like the Gallows. The Fade can mimic the real world at times. Though in this case I'd like to think it's more like they're pulling the Fade into Thedas, not pulling themselves into the Fade. There must be some kind of connection between them (Thedas and the Fade), what with torn Veils all over the place.

I imagine the the Veil serves as a barrier that exists between the Fade and the mortal realm (being Thedas), a barrier only mages can cross over, whether by the aid of lyrium or while asleep. Yes in, some instances the Fade does reflect locations, but during the Origin Mage's Harrowing, and encountering Sloth, show the Fade as this twisted landscape. The replication of locations could be just the product of something, like a Demon, spirit, or a Dreamer manipulating the appearance with their will alone to something more familiar to themselves or to their intended target.

Weaknesses in thie Veil seem to be caused by either highly concetrated areas of lyrium or where-ever a great deal of magic was recklessly or maliciously used, resutling in these tears and causing overlaps between the Fade and Thedas if it's severe enough.

[Gespenst]

She ate some of the sacred ashes and got better.

If she was left in Lothering she just got the hell out of Dodge about fifteen minutes affter you did.

Side note, her response to your questions in Faith reminded me of this:

Modifié par Gespenst, 16 août 2011 - 04:45 .

[addiction21]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
snip

I think you went a little to deep with the whole demon/spirit lore thing.

Demons = the darker evil natures of humans who are uncontent and looking to spread that particular nature they are named for.

Spirits = The better or "good" nature of humans and are content with what and where they are so its rare they are met in the fade and more rare that they decide to embodie a mortal.

[devSin]

Gespenst wrote...

She ate some of the sacred ashes and got better.

Except you just defiled the ashes.

I bet it's just a false memory. She hypnotized you during that awful song sequence and planted the memory of you killing her after defiling the ashes.

What really happens is that she ran off with Marjolaine, killed the old Divine, and Marjolaine is now blackmailing the new Divine to keep her past affair secret (Leliana is basically the enforcer, to keep the old bag in line).

[TEWR]

devSin wrote...

Gespenst wrote...

She ate some of the sacred ashes and got better.

Except you just defiled the ashes.

I bet it's just a false memory. She hypnotized you during that awful song sequence and planted the memory of you killing her after defiling the ashes.

What really happens is that she ran off with Marjolaine, killed the old Divine, and Marjolaine is now blackmailing the new Divine to keep her past affair secret (Leliana is basically the enforcer, to keep the old bag in line).

defiling the ashes doesn't mean they're now useless. Dragon's blood has healing properties and gives a person more strength and endurance, while also causing a person who drinks it to eventually go insane. And Kolgrim's insane.

If anything the dragon's blood either amplified the healing properties given to the Ashes by lyrium (the most likely cause) or they didn't do anything to the Ashes except ****** off the Guardian, Leliana, and Wynne because a person decided they'd take a **** all over something of religious significance.

[Rifneno]

Filament wrote...

That area in the Fade in Awakening looked like the Blackmarsh village before it turned into a wasteland. Feynriel's dream looked like the Gallows. The Fade can mimic the real world at times. Though in this case I'd like to think it's more like they're pulling the Fade into Thedas, not pulling themselves into the Fade. There must be some kind of connection between them (Thedas and the Fade), what with torn Veils all over the place.

edit: I mean a connection, topographically speaking... obviously they're connected in a general sense.

"No." - Sten

First, both the Blackmarsh and the Gallows in the Fade had that weird shimmering/wavy visual filter. The Gauntlet did not. Second, the reason the Fade can mimic Thedas is because the Fade is constantly changing (aside from the Black City). Spirits, demons, and somniari can shape the Fade to their will. The Gallows Fade was shaped by Feynriel, the Blackmarsh Fade by the Baroness-turned-pride demon. The Fade didn't "pull a piece of Thedas into it," there was just a replica constructed there. So the opposite can't be true, that Thedas pulled a piece of the Fade in.

As the story goes, the Tevinter Imperium had to use 2/3rds of the lyrium in their entire lands at the height of their power along with the blood of several hundred slaves in order to send five people into the Fade. While it's possible the story is exaggerated, it can't be exaggerated too much because in the thousands of years of Thedas' history, physically entering the Fade has only happened one time. It takes a whole lot more than being in little cave in a mountain that has a high lyrium content.