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Hawke is powerless.


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#1
Ramza_1

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I think one of the reasons DA2 is less enjoyable is that Hawke is powerless.  Many people have made the point already that nothing he does matters.  In act 3, for example, you can choose to side with the mages or the templars, but it makes zero difference in terms of gameplay or results to the world.  You still fight bajillions of blood mages demons, Orsino still somehow becomes the Harvester from the DAO golems dlc, and you still fight meredith. 

The other reason Hawke feels powerless is because of the bloated combat.  After killing the 1000th faceless bandit, its more like mowing the lawn than overcoming powerful and worthy foes. 

Also, I noticed that in DAO all the human enemies used the same ruleset as you.  Enemy mages used the same spells, had reasonable hp for a pc mage, and the challenge was in their AI.  Emissaries, for example, were really scary when they would use fireball on your clumped up group.  The enemies felt like a threat, but also could be delt with because the rules they functioned by were the same as yours. 

In DA2 it feels more gamey, less like your beating a foe and more like overcoming a silly mechanic of the game because the enemies play by different rules than you; the bosses are ridiculous hp sponges that sit there and wave their swords around generating some weird aura while you stab them in the face for 30 minutes.  The mages sit there with their hp sponges and cast ineffective charging spells rather than just using fireball like you do.  Also everyone is a paratrooper.

Furthermore, almost every foe you kill in DA2 is characterized by some kind of extreme.  They are all completely fascist templars, insane blood mages, greed-possessed thugs, and all are one-dimensional and unmemorable.  There are no truly great adversaries with complex motivations.  I swear every mage is whiny or insane, and all sound victimized.  If you play through with a sarcastic Hawke overtone, you will notice that there are MANY lines where all hawke does is say "your insane" or "great, another crazy" or "why is everyone I meet crazy".  The reason this is so is because there is basically nothing else appropriate for hawke to say. 

You don't feel powerful unless you use skill and wit to overcome worthy foes.  There ARE NO worthy villains in DA2.  Mages act like wimps or are insane.  Even end game bosses, like Orsino and Meredith, are just one dimensional crazies.  Orsino would have been a much more interesting boss fight if he had just behaved how an archmage should- by using every spell in the damned game intelligently.  Please see the end fight against Irenicus in BG2 for an example.  I felt badass after beating irenicus. 

Modifié par Ramza_1, 16 août 2011 - 01:09 .


#2
Prince_12

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Old topic is old

#3
whykikyouwhy

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Quite a few people have felt that Hawke was "powerless." I saw Hawke as someone moving along, trying to do the best thing for the family, and getting caught up in the circumstances and events around him/her. There is still a matter of choice in that. The end result will be the same - it's a game with a defined end bit after all, but the journey is what matters. Maybe I role-played Hawke somewhat differently than you.

And sure there were some extremes - it's a fantasy game. Lobbing fireballs from the sky is extreme. Wielding a greatsword and felling an ogre is extreme. That's part of the charm and beauty.

And you seem to have a negative connotation of sponges. I find sponges quite helpful when I'm doing the dishes.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 16 août 2011 - 01:15 .


#4
Ramza_1

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Prince_12 wrote...

Old topic is old


Well done.  A brick is a brick.  A frog is a frog.  A phone is a phone.  Your contribution is appreciated, but why don't you sit quietly and let the adults with the slightly more developed reasoning ability have their turn?

#5
Ramza_1

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whykikyouwhy wrote...

Quite a few people have felt that Hawke was "powerless." I saw Hawke as someone moving along, trying to do the best thing for the family, and getting caught up in the circumstances and events around him/her. There is still a matter of choice in that. The end result will be the same - it's a game with a defined end bit after all, but the journey is what matters. Maybe 8 role-played Hawke somewhat differently than you.

And sure there were some extremes - it's a fantasy game. Lobbing fireballs from the sky is extreme. Wielding a greatsword and felling an ogre is extreme. That's part of the charm and beauty.

And you seem to have a negative connotation of sponges. I find sponges quite helpful when I'm doing the dishes.


It felt more like being caught on rails.  The witcher 2 had the same premise; huge political events were in motion, and the witcher was just a piece in the chess set, but he could still change the shape of the board.  If Hawke hadn't been there, it seems as though absolutely nothing would have changed.  I agree, there should have been a matter of choice in the situation hawke was in, but gameplay and poor characterization of everyone but hawke and his companions made it seem like the only choice hawke had was in how he delivered his lines, which all amounted to the same thing: your wrong, and now lets fight.

Perhaps what I meant is that most of the bugs you squash in DA2 are characterized ONLY by extremes, and are uninteresting.  Again, Irenicus from BG2 is a great example of an engaging villain.  He wasn't going to end the world, he wasn't an unrelenting ancient evil like the Archdemon, his goals weren't even really known until 3/4 of the game was over even though you had been interacting with him throughout the entire game and he had somehwat hinted about them. 

Same with Loghain from DAO.  He was a complex individual; even at the very end it is arguable that he was a villain or simply misled.  There is contention about whether he should be killed or not.  There is no contention in DA2 about whether anyone should be killed.  There is no choice.  Meredith obviously needs to be killed when she goes bat crazy.  Orsino too.  There is no reason or desire to get to know these people before you kill them because there is nothing to know.  Meredith is bat crazy.  That is her entire story.  Hawke has no power to choose- he must kill these lunatics like he killed the 1000s of other lunatics earlier when he was mowing the lawn.

Modifié par Ramza_1, 16 août 2011 - 01:26 .


#6
Prince_12

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Ramza_1 wrote...
Well done.  A brick is a brick.  A frog is a frog.  A phone is a phone.  Your contribution is appreciated, but why don't you sit quietly and let the adults with the slightly more developed reasoning ability have their turn?


I wish adults would stop making old threads and bringing old topics up again and again...

#7
Fenris_13

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Prince_12 wrote...

Ramza_1 wrote...
Well done.  A brick is a brick.  A frog is a frog.  A phone is a phone.  Your contribution is appreciated, but why don't you sit quietly and let the adults with the slightly more developed reasoning ability have their turn?


I wish adults would stop making old threads and bringing old topics up again and again...


:D

#8
TheAwesomologist

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Ramza_1 wrote...

I think one of the reasons DA2 is less enjoyable is that Hawke is powerless.  Many people have made the point already that nothing he does matters.  In act 3, for example, you can choose to side with the mages or the templars, but it makes zero difference in terms of gameplay or results to the world.  You still fight bajillions of blood mages demons, Orsino still somehow becomes the Harvester from the DAO golems dlc, and you still fight meredith.  

Act 3 felt empty and hollow. Choices barely mattered and we come to find out that the most important character in the game is one of your companions not the PC. Just bad story setup and design. Everything around it wasn't so bad. But yes the ending made little sense.

Also, I noticed that in DAO all the human enemies used the same ruleset as you.  Enemy mages used the same spells, had reasonable hp for a pc mage, and the challenge was in their AI.  Emissaries, for example, were really scary when they would use fireball on your clumped up group.  The enemies felt like a threat, but also could be delt with because the rules they functioned by were the same as yours. 

I noticed that too. I don't think I ever saw an enemy toss a fireball my way. They used some similar Force Mage like spells but yeah, no hexes, no mark of death. That made combat more tactical and tactics is not the name of DA2.

In DA2 it feels more gamey, less like your beating a foe and more like overcoming a silly mechanic of the game because the enemies play by different rules than you; the bosses are ridiculous hp sponges that sit there and wave their swords around generating some weird aura while you stab them in the face for 30 minutes.  The mages sit there with their hp sponges and cast ineffective charging spells rather than just using fireball like you do.  Also everyone is a paratrooper.

As I said above there's little to no need for tactics. Maybe at nightmare but avoiding your allies attacks shouldn't be a replacement for actual tactical combat. What little tactics were involved were basically in making the scripts for your companions to follow so that you could take advantage of CCC's. Thats what happens when you push a button and something awesome happens. Tactics tend to involve more than one button.
The problem here is that DA2 was moved from an RPG to an "Adventure Game with RPG Elements". Now thats fine for the most part. Some people don't like traditional RPG's that move slow because it feels like your computer is handling a bunch of character sheets instead of a core set of numbers. There's a balance that needs to be struck that allows new players to ease their way into the genre and allow RPG traditionalist the challenge they want, all while still telling a compelling story. DA2 fell short on both a compelling story and compelling game play. Don't get me wrong, it's not the worst game ever, but for long time Bioware fans, we expected better.

Furthermore, almost every foe you kill in DA2 is characterized by some kind of extreme.  They are all completely fascist templars, insane blood mages, greed-possessed thugs, and all are one-dimensional and unmemorable.  There are no truly great adversaries with complex motivations.  I swear every mage is whiny or insane, and all sound victimized.  If you play through with a sarcastic Hawke overtone, you will notice that there are MANY lines where all hawke does is say "your insane" or "great, another crazy" or "why is everyone I meet crazy".  The reason this is so is because there is basically nothing else appropriate for hawke to say.  

You know whats even better? Sebastian pointing out in the end that none of this needs to go further, they have the terrorist right there in front of them yet no one does a thing. It's not even as if Hawke threatened to protect Anders, Orsino, Meredith, Fenris, Aveline, all of them just turn away. Thats just bad writing/storytelling. SyFy has better scripted plots for their basic cable shows.

You don't feel powerful unless you use skill and wit to overcome worthy foes.  There ARE NO worthy villains in DA2.  Mages act like wimps or are insane.  Even end game bosses, like Orsino and Meredith, are just one dimensional crazies.  Orsino would have been a much more interesting boss fight if he had just behaved how an archmage should- by using every spell in the damned game intelligently.  Please see the end fight against Irenicus in BG2 for an example.  I felt badass after beating irenicus. 

I will say this, I thought the Qunari story line built up to a worthy foe. The Arishok duel and getting to that point was the peak of the game. Corypheus in Legacy was a good hard fight, but it wasn't hard because of tactics it was hard because your companions have ****** poor pathing AI. Still more fun than most fights in DA2.

#9
whykikyouwhy

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@Ramza_1 - I felt like Hawke had influence and made some changes. I think though that they were on a smaller scale - directly affecting individual lives (whichmay or may not be brought up again in future games). The grand scale? The big battle and ultimate schism? Not so much a direct influence, no, but Hawke played a role, was a present member for the unfolding of events.

But that's just my take. I enjoyed the game, have played it a couple of times now, and I still find things to love. It's not perfect, no, but it kept me entertained and I felt that it had a good story and solid characters. All my opinion though.

#10
Ramza_1

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Prince_12 wrote...

Ramza_1 wrote...
Well done.  A brick is a brick.  A frog is a frog.  A phone is a phone.  Your contribution is appreciated, but why don't you sit quietly and let the adults with the slightly more developed reasoning ability have their turn?


I wish adults would stop making old threads and bringing old topics up again and again...


1) It is a new thread.  I clicked "new post" and I posted some of my observations which I have never before posted on these boards.  Therefore, it is either a new take on an old topic, and therefore new.  Or it is one more opinion on top of many and shifts the consensus on the topic, which by itself is valuable.

2)  Problems should be brought up as long as they remain problems or are viewed as such by some.  If you disagree with this, thats fine, but try explaining why rather than making pointless assertions such as x is x, or y is y, because most people, I think you'll agree, can intuitively grasp that this is true without your brilliant tutoring.

#11
Ramza_1

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TheAwesomologist wrote...

Ramza_1 wrote...

I think one of the reasons DA2 is less enjoyable is that Hawke is powerless.  Many people have made the point already that nothing he does matters.  In act 3, for example, you can choose to side with the mages or the templars, but it makes zero difference in terms of gameplay or results to the world.  You still fight bajillions of blood mages demons, Orsino still somehow becomes the Harvester from the DAO golems dlc, and you still fight meredith.  

Act 3 felt empty and hollow. Choices barely mattered and we come to find out that the most important character in the game is one of your companions not the PC. Just bad story setup and design. Everything around it wasn't so bad. But yes the ending made little sense.

Also, I noticed that in DAO all the human enemies used the same ruleset as you.  Enemy mages used the same spells, had reasonable hp for a pc mage, and the challenge was in their AI.  Emissaries, for example, were really scary when they would use fireball on your clumped up group.  The enemies felt like a threat, but also could be delt with because the rules they functioned by were the same as yours. 

I noticed that too. I don't think I ever saw an enemy toss a fireball my way. They used some similar Force Mage like spells but yeah, no hexes, no mark of death. That made combat more tactical and tactics is not the name of DA2.

In DA2 it feels more gamey, less like your beating a foe and more like overcoming a silly mechanic of the game because the enemies play by different rules than you; the bosses are ridiculous hp sponges that sit there and wave their swords around generating some weird aura while you stab them in the face for 30 minutes.  The mages sit there with their hp sponges and cast ineffective charging spells rather than just using fireball like you do.  Also everyone is a paratrooper.

As I said above there's little to no need for tactics. Maybe at nightmare but avoiding your allies attacks shouldn't be a replacement for actual tactical combat. What little tactics were involved were basically in making the scripts for your companions to follow so that you could take advantage of CCC's. Thats what happens when you push a button and something awesome happens. Tactics tend to involve more than one button.
The problem here is that DA2 was moved from an RPG to an "Adventure Game with RPG Elements". Now thats fine for the most part. Some people don't like traditional RPG's that move slow because it feels like your computer is handling a bunch of character sheets instead of a core set of numbers. There's a balance that needs to be struck that allows new players to ease their way into the genre and allow RPG traditionalist the challenge they want, all while still telling a compelling story. DA2 fell short on both a compelling story and compelling game play. Don't get me wrong, it's not the worst game ever, but for long time Bioware fans, we expected better.

Furthermore, almost every foe you kill in DA2 is characterized by some kind of extreme.  They are all completely fascist templars, insane blood mages, greed-possessed thugs, and all are one-dimensional and unmemorable.  There are no truly great adversaries with complex motivations.  I swear every mage is whiny or insane, and all sound victimized.  If you play through with a sarcastic Hawke overtone, you will notice that there are MANY lines where all hawke does is say "your insane" or "great, another crazy" or "why is everyone I meet crazy".  The reason this is so is because there is basically nothing else appropriate for hawke to say.  

You know whats even better? Sebastian pointing out in the end that none of this needs to go further, they have the terrorist right there in front of them yet no one does a thing. It's not even as if Hawke threatened to protect Anders, Orsino, Meredith, Fenris, Aveline, all of them just turn away. Thats just bad writing/storytelling. SyFy has better scripted plots for their basic cable shows.

You don't feel powerful unless you use skill and wit to overcome worthy foes.  There ARE NO worthy villains in DA2.  Mages act like wimps or are insane.  Even end game bosses, like Orsino and Meredith, are just one dimensional crazies.  Orsino would have been a much more interesting boss fight if he had just behaved how an archmage should- by using every spell in the damned game intelligently.  Please see the end fight against Irenicus in BG2 for an example.  I felt badass after beating irenicus. 

I will say this, I thought the Qunari story line built up to a worthy foe. The Arishok duel and getting to that point was the peak of the game. Corypheus in Legacy was a good hard fight, but it wasn't hard because of tactics it was hard because your companions have ****** poor pathing AI. Still more fun than most fights in DA2.



I agree, the Qunari storyline was very interesting.  I enjoyed learning about their society, and your right, I did think the Arishok was a worthy foe.  I felt the confrontation was a *little* contrived, but still pretty good.  Still a lot of unncessary bloat on the way to those moments with the Arishok though.  

I also thought Corypheus was pretty interesting, though I wish there had been more interactivity with him and I could have learned more about him before removing him.  And the pathing thing really did stink.

#12
Elhanan

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Hawke did have power: over choice.

Without Hawke, Kirkwall might still be under the tyranical rule of Meredith, the fraudulent influence of Orsino, or the heavily demonic corruption caused by other powerful beings in the region.

Hawke could choose to allow freedom for the innocent, or those more aligned with murder.

Hawke could help influence his comapanions, and their POV of life.

Hawke could have romance, or wait.

Hawke could allow street crime to flourish, or deal with it.

Hawke could even return the smallest articles of treasured mementoes to their owners, or not.

Small or large, choices are still choices; Hawke simply could not master the destiny of war.

#13
King Cousland

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It's not so much that Hawke is powerless that bothers me, it's that they're a boring character in general, a bystander, who frankly, just doesn't matter. They marketed Hawke as the most important person Thedas has ever seen. Instead they were a refugee who stumbled into being Champion and weren't really that integral to the story at all. The expedition might have never happened, but that would've made things better. Meredith wouldn't have gone insane. The templars and city guard would have defeated the Qunari without Hawke. Anders would still have done what he did, except Meredith would have annulled the Circle. So, the small amount of accomplishments that Hawke actually achieved were for nothing, and on the greater scheme of things, it was Hawke's companions that really mattered, while they were just the bystander of Kirkwall.

#14
Ramza_1

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Elhanan wrote...

Hawke did have power: over choice.

Without Hawke, Kirkwall might still be under the tyranical rule of Meredith, the fraudulent influence of Orsino, or the heavily demonic corruption caused by other powerful beings in the region.

Hawke could choose to allow freedom for the innocent, or those more aligned with murder.

Hawke could help influence his comapanions, and their POV of life.

Hawke could have romance, or wait.

Hawke could allow street crime to flourish, or deal with it.

Hawke could even return the smallest articles of treasured mementoes to their owners, or not.

Small or large, choices are still choices; Hawke simply could not master the destiny of war.


The choices were meaningless.

Example: one playthrough I chose to let feynreal turn into an abomination.  I was so looking forward to meeting this hellishly powerful abomination later because of the opportunity presented by the framed narrative.  Nothing happened. 

#15
Fiery Knight

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Ramza_1 wrote...
Example: one playthrough I chose to let feynreal turn into an abomination.  I was so looking forward to meeting this hellishly powerful abomination later because of the opportunity presented by the framed narrative.  Nothing happened. 


Must everything happen in the same game? I rather fight him with another guy. If every guy showed up like that in DA2, that would suck.

Modifié par Hawke_12, 16 août 2011 - 01:54 .


#16
TheAwesomologist

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Elhanan wrote...

Hawke did have power: over choice.

Without Hawke, Kirkwall might still be under the tyranical rule of Meredith, the fraudulent influence of Orsino, or the heavily demonic corruption caused by other powerful beings in the region.

Hawke could choose to allow freedom for the innocent, or those more aligned with murder.

Hawke could help influence his comapanions, and their POV of life.

Hawke could have romance, or wait.

Hawke could allow street crime to flourish, or deal with it.

Hawke could even return the smallest articles of treasured mementoes to their owners, or not.

Small or large, choices are still choices; Hawke simply could not master the destiny of war.

Most of that's just standard game play. It's like saying Mario has a choice on which block to break or which koopa to stomp on.
Yes there were some decent storytelling moments with companions and so on. In fact any choices that Hawke had any real effect over were limited almost entirely to companion quests and side quests (Fenryiel's fate for instance). The main quest and story line had little to no input from the player and Hawke.

#17
whykikyouwhy

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Maybe I'm being optimistic, or making an unfair parallel to PnP gaming that I've done, but it seems that the most insignificant choices wind up becoming matters of great importance down the road. I think we are seeing a fragment of the whole - one small section of the larger story arc of the DA universe. I think Hawke will turn out to be a greater figure, but we're not at the position where we can see that yet.

#18
LobselVith8

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Ramza_1 wrote...

I think one of the reasons DA2 is less enjoyable is that Hawke is powerless.  Many people have made the point already that nothing he does matters.  In act 3, for example, you can choose to side with the mages or the templars, but it makes zero difference in terms of gameplay or results to the world.  You still fight bajillions of blood mages demons, Orsino still somehow becomes the Harvester from the DAO golems dlc, and you still fight meredith. 


It's not merely Hawke doing nothing for three years between Acts II and III despite becoming Champion, but how he simply stands there doing nothing while something gets killed ("Best Served Cold") or allows a villain to walk away with no rational explanation provided ("Sheparding Wolves," "Legacy"). Hawke was railroaded by the plot in a very obvious way, which is sad in a story that's supposed to be about his "rise to power."

#19
Sir Edric

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Choices idn't carry much wait in DA2, but I highly think those small choices will have a great importance in DA3. But that's just me hoping...

#20
TheAwesomologist

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whykikyouwhy wrote...

Maybe I'm being optimistic, or making an unfair parallel to PnP gaming that I've done, but it seems that the most insignificant choices wind up becoming matters of great importance down the road. I think we are seeing a fragment of the whole - one small section of the larger story arc of the DA universe. I think Hawke will turn out to be a greater figure, but we're not at the position where we can see that yet.

We'll only find out in further DLC or expansion then since DA3 is supposed to move on from Hawke. Just seems like a lot of wasted time if Hawke won't become important until AFTER we spent money on a game that told us he would be important. I mean does it feel wrong to anyone else that you have to pay for more content just to get to the part were the hero actually matters?

#21
Ramza_1

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whykikyouwhy wrote...

Maybe I'm being optimistic, or making an unfair parallel to PnP gaming that I've done, but it seems that the most insignificant choices wind up becoming matters of great importance down the road. I think we are seeing a fragment of the whole - one small section of the larger story arc of the DA universe. I think Hawke will turn out to be a greater figure, but we're not at the position where we can see that yet.


Maybe, but one of the points I'm trying to make is that because of how the game plays- bloated combat, railroaded storyboarding, less environmental interaction and influence, etc (not to mention the fact that Mages CANNOT SET GREASE ON FIRE ANYMORE? WTF?!)  Hawke *feels* less powerful than the warden did in DAO.

Indeed, in BG2 you felt very powerful because you had complete freedom of in-game choice.  You could attack anyone you wanted to at any time, go almost anywhere; so much freedom and *power*.  If you cast spells in the city, cowled wizards would pursue you.  That makes you so much more powerful than not being able to cast magic in the city because of game-world rules.  If you attacked some random person in BG2, guards would pursue you.  You are so much more powerful than someone who cannot attack a random person because of "game-world rules".  You have influence, even if it isn't in your best interest to exercise it. 

I'm not saying that DA2 needs to allow you to attack everyone, I'm just saying the DA games need to be set up so you have more pathing-gameplay choice rather than railroading and artificial rules, so you "feel" more powerful.

Same thing in the Witcher 2: you could threaten citizens and attack city guards if you wished, but their were consequences.  Still, that the option was their granted the illusion of choice.  You could even get yourself killed by choosing the wrong dialogue options; that was AWESOME.  They did the same thing in BG2.  If you tried to confront Irenicus without backup in Spellhold, he would just laugh at you and kill you.  So awesome haha.  You were allowed to make bad roleplaying choices that resulted in death, but you had the choice.

Modifié par Ramza_1, 16 août 2011 - 02:00 .


#22
Sir Edric

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Ramza_1 wrote...

didn't feel powerful (...)


Didn't feel powerfull? You're talking about being powerful by taking down tough opponets, like in DA:O right? While in DA2 opponets where easy to kill? Isn't that what powerful trully means? Taking on enemies with ease?

Modifié par Vrex_12, 16 août 2011 - 02:02 .


#23
Fiery Knight

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Vrex_12 wrote...
Didn't feel powerfull? You're talking about being powerful by taking down tough opponets, like in DA:O right? While in DA2 opponets where easy to kill? Isn't that what powerful trully means? Taking on enemies with ease?


This man speaks the truth

#24
Ramza_1

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Vrex_12 wrote...

Ramza_1 wrote...

didn't feel powerful (...)


Didn't feel powerfull? You're talking about being powerful by taking down tough opponets, like in DA:O right? While in DA2 opponets where easy to kill? Isn't that what powerful trully means? Taking on enemies with ease?

So two powerful people can't collide or a paradox ensues and neither of them are powerful?  Besides, what enemies? I was mowing the metaphorical lawn of AI automations. 

#25
Elhanan

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harkness72 wrote...

It's not so much that Hawke is powerless that bothers me, it's that they're a boring character in general, a bystander, who frankly, just doesn't matter. They marketed Hawke as the most important person Thedas has ever seen. Instead they were a refugee who stumbled into being Champion and weren't really that integral to the story at all. The expedition might have never happened, but that would've made things better. Meredith wouldn't have gone insane. The templars and city guard would have defeated the Qunari without Hawke. Anders would still have done what he did, except Meredith would have annulled the Circle. So, the small amount of accomplishments that Hawke actually achieved were for nothing, and on the greater scheme of things, it was Hawke's companions that really mattered, while they were just the bystander of Kirkwall.


If Hawke is boring, that is your subjective view, others may differ, and mine certainly does.

Rags to riches is a fairly common theme among great men. While some may not like to hear or play it, does not mean that others may be intrigued by the experience.

Might is a strong word. The expedition may not have happened, or it did. And I do not claim to be precognative, so I have no real knowledge over what might have happened, or not. And as a guess, neither do most of us outside the writers.

But when Hawke is placed into this history, events unfold as they were told. Now some may feel like bystanders; witnesses of history only. But others may feel empowered that they helped, or at least attempted to influence the sculpting of the historical events.

What I continue to fail to understand is the salmon-esque desire to return to these Forums to complain about it.