551 réponses à ce sujet

[alex90c]

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Eamon: Alistair should be King.
Warden: NO. *Cites reasons*
Eamon: BUT THE PLOT DICTATES TROLOLOLOLO
Warden: Ok

You don't have to make Alistair king. In my first playthrough I made Anora the ruler of Ferelden.

What you do with that forced coup is up to you, same with Ketojan.

...no.

I HATE HAWKE SO MUCH HE JUST SITS THERE KILLING STUFF AND I HATE HIM WHAT A LOSER

*filter*

Hawke just sits there killing stuff.

Which he does.

Yes.

And no, mine sure doesn't.

Perse, you're talking out of your arse.

If you think Hawke doesn't do a whole load of killing, it's not even worth arguing with you.

Because in case you hadn't noticed, you're getting jumped by paratroopers every five seconds.

[Mr.House]

alex90c wrote...

Eamon: Alistair should be King.
Warden: NO. *Cites reasons*
Eamon: BUT THE PLOT DICTATES TROLOLOLOLO
Warden: Ok

You don't have to make Alistair king. In my first playthrough I made Anora the ruler of Ferelden.

What you do with that forced coup is up to you, same with Ketojan.

...no.

As for the part I put in italics....yeah, sadly that's anything but productive.

Actually, if you scrape away the thick layer of vitriol, the things I say about the game aren't actually incorrect.

For example:

I HATE HAWKE SO MUCH HE JUST SITS THERE KILLING STUFF AND I HATE HIM WHAT A LOSER

*filter*

Hawke just sits there killing stuff.

Which he does.

My Hawke has sex with Izzy, that's diffrent then yours. Your Hawke is just boring.

[IanPolaris]

Realmzmaster wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Everyone is looking at Hawke being powerless or not from his/her POV. Everyone has his/her opinion. I think Hawke is not powerless. His power lies in changing the individual and not the world. Others state that Hawke could have done more with his fame and money using them to gain city changing power.

Act 3 in DA2 was a weak point. The templar siding story was better written than the mage siding story. If Hawke sided with the templars he was Viscount and had most if not all the power in the city. If he sided with the mages he had to leave. The Divine was going to send more templars to re-take control of Kirkwall. Not a great ending , but I have played games with much worst endings.

I liked DA2. Some here did not like DA2. I respect your opinion and I hope you respect my opinion. You will give your opinion and I will tell you why I agree or disagree with it. One some points we will have to agree to disagree.

I have my POV and other forum mates have their POV. Neither is wrong or right. It is simply how we see it. But I will state my case if I do not or do agree with you. My opinion has as much right to shape future DA products as anyone else's.
I do not IMHO think that Hawke is powerless.

His only power in "changing the individual" is wadng in and killing goddamn individuals. You know ... groups of around 50 of them. Every two minutes. Non-stop.

I heard the HQ of the Kirkwall Parachute Division has been trying to retrieve the massive amount of dogtags off the bodies of all their dead men.

Much like the warden.

Actually no.  The warden has both heavy world and individual impacts where your choices really do matter and you can call in favors.  Admittedly the end result (killing the AD) is the same, but the illusion of choice is far superior in DAO.

-Polaris

[Mr.House]

alex90c wrote...


Perse, you're talking out of your arse.

If you think Hawke doesn't do a whole load of killing, it's not even worth arguing with you.

Because in case you hadn't noticed, you're getting jumped by paratroopers every five seconds.

Now this is nice, solid hyperbole.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Do nothing? What about finding Gascard and trying to track Leandra via blood magic?

I was not talking about Leandra. In general.

If you want to talk about Leandra, Hawke not investigating the death of his mother after findign evidence impicating one from the Circle, just makes it a lazy moron.

The examples you provided are on such a small scale (some not even what I would consider intelligence), and they do not compensate for the rest, that they do not prevent me from looking at Hawke as a lazy imbecile.

*Sigh*

O. = Definite proof implicating Orsino? Not really.

Fine. Look at him that way. I get it. Same as I get people calling The Witcher series misogynistic and sexist even though I disagree with that one dimensional assesment.

[Realmzmaster]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Everyone is looking at Hawke being powerless or not from his/her POV. Everyone has his/her opinion. I think Hawke is not powerless. His power lies in changing the individual and not the world. Others state that Hawke could have done more with his fame and money using them to gain city changing power.

The Warden and Shepard also change individuals. Quite frankly, side quests in these games dealing with individuals were much more memorable to me. Other than Feynriel, I really more or less forgot all of those personal choices in DA2.

What I am trying to say is that "individual-centric" and "world-centric" choices are not a mutually exclusive dichotomy. one could have both. Especially when the DA team said that the franchise is about Thedas.

I agree, but you can also have a game that focuses on one more than the other. DAO was more world changing. DA2 to me focuses on more individual changing. They are not mutually exclusive, but one can have more emphasis than the other.

[Xilizhra]

I think the major reason why people are upset about this is that the plot of DA2 is failry political, whereas DAO was a straightforward adventure that would naturally have plenty of killing involved. I think the biggest problem is that the gameplay clashes with the plot, since not enough of what the plot would logically have can be implemented well into the gameplay.

[IanPolaris]

Mr.House wrote...

alex90c wrote...


Perse, you're talking out of your arse.

If you think Hawke doesn't do a whole load of killing, it's not even worth arguing with you.

Because in case you hadn't noticed, you're getting jumped by paratroopers every five seconds.

Now this is nice, solid hyperbole.

Actually that's a pretty good description of a stroll through Lowtown after dark.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

Realmzmaster wrote...
The warden gets a treaty and blunders his way to gather an army. Without said treaty the warden would be unable to get help from elves or dwavres.

Except no one cared about the treaty (2 armies don't even have a treaty) and it's not enforceable by anyone, and the Warden had to help them before. Yes, he acted like an errand boy. But it also provided opportunity to be pro-active. To do something from your own volition.

For instance, playing both Bhelen and Harrowmont. No one tells you to do that. Recruiting the Werewolves. An entirely pro-active choice. Seeking to save the mages when you are told they are all dead, is a choice out of your own volition. Backstabbing Kolgrim...etc

These are things the warden can do from his own volition amnd it involves more than just killing. I do nto recal a single instance of that in DA2, except siding with Petrice, which has a stupid logic to it.

Yes, all Bioware PCs are killing machines. Some however have more choice / options / opportunity to show skills...etc than others.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

I think the major reason why people are upset about this is that the plot of DA2 is failry political, whereas DAO was a straightforward adventure that would naturally have plenty of killing involved. I think the biggest problem is that the gameplay clashes with the plot, since not enough of what the plot would logically have can be implemented well into the gameplay.

DA2's "political" story was also done horrible after act 2. People don't enjoy stuff when it becomes a headache. which act 3 is.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...


*Sigh*

O. = Definite proof implicating Orsino? Not really.

Implicating the Circle, as the letter is clearly from there.

But no, Hawke decides that investigating is too much work.

[Mr.House]

IanPolaris wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

alex90c wrote...


Perse, you're talking out of your arse.

If you think Hawke doesn't do a whole load of killing, it's not even worth arguing with you.

Because in case you hadn't noticed, you're getting jumped by paratroopers every five seconds.

Now this is nice, solid hyperbole.

Actually that's a pretty good description of a stroll through Lowtown after dark.

-Polaris

The whole game does not take place at Lowtown after dark, nor are oyu there all the time, nor does it happen once you kill the gang leader. :innocent:

[Persephone]

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Eamon: Alistair should be King.
Warden: NO. *Cites reasons*
Eamon: BUT THE PLOT DICTATES TROLOLOLOLO
Warden: Ok

You don't have to make Alistair king. In my first playthrough I made Anora the ruler of Ferelden.

What you do with that forced coup is up to you, same with Ketojan.

...no.

I HATE HAWKE SO MUCH HE JUST SITS THERE KILLING STUFF AND I HATE HIM WHAT A LOSER

*filter*

Hawke just sits there killing stuff.

Which he does.

Yes.

And no, mine sure doesn't.

Perse, you're talking out of your arse.

If you think Hawke doesn't do a whole load of killing, it's not even worth arguing with you.

Because in case you hadn't noticed, you're getting jumped by paratroopers every five seconds.

Kindly leave my body out of this. Hawke does no more killing than the Warden who fulfills every singly "treaty" by killing, who wins the Landsmeet in a brawl/duel, who follows a bloody stupid strategy at the end of the game and by not objecting to the idea of Archie attacking Redcliffe, he is responsible for the death of thousands upon thousands. Hawke cannot compare in the killer department.

[Aradace]

IanPolaris wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

alex90c wrote...


Perse, you're talking out of your arse.

If you think Hawke doesn't do a whole load of killing, it's not even worth arguing with you.

Because in case you hadn't noticed, you're getting jumped by paratroopers every five seconds.

Now this is nice, solid hyperbole.

Actually that's a pretty good description of a stroll through Lowtown after dark.

-Polaris

Still hyperbole none the less. 

[Thor Rand Al]

Mr.House wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
The problem is you aren't RPing.  You are watching a dimwitted fool blunder his way into power because he's good at killing.

Sorry to break it to you but there it is.

-Polaris

How did the Warden become the Warden? Because they where good at killing and impressed Duncan

Ha good one lol

Duncan even says he's heard of the Wardens prowess in fighting, he's impressed with what he's heard.  The Warden was always the one he was interested in instead of Glimore, if you did noble origins.  Hawke has no one that praises his fightin abilities at the beginning.  Hawke litereally has to prove himself from the ground up to where the Wardens basically been handed their role because of Duncan.  Duncan's already given the Warden their quest/calling. 
Hawke has to find his and even at the end he really hasn't found it.  He's cleaning up everyone else's mess and by doin that he's gained some power.  Unfortunately his power doesn't really amount to much except in a few convo's but then Meredith stomps all over that.  Any power that Hawke wants he's denied because of Meredith.  The Templers rule Kirkwall, no Mereith rules.  You have to have her approval to amount to really anything in the game.  She's the one that name's Hawke Champion only because he's just saved the city from a Qunari invasion n tech it's his right.  But you know dang well that Hawke saving the city sits wrong with Meredith.  Her expression says it all when she comes into the throne room after Hawke defeats the Arishok.  She's definitely not happy about it.

Basically it boils down to the Warden being a Warden was given to them, they didn't have to work for it, Duncan handed them that from the beginning.  Hawke has to work for his role, has to start from the bottom, the title Champion was not given to him, his estate was not given to him even if it was his family home.  He had to work n earn those.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

I think the major reason why people are upset about this is that the plot of DA2 is failry political.

It was *supposed* to be political, but the execution was laughable. At best, it was a humorous political parody.
Origins, while not great by any means, had better political situations.

[Mr.House]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
The warden gets a treaty and blunders his way to gather an army. Without said treaty the warden would be unable to get help from elves or dwavres.

Except no one cared about the treaty (2 armies don't even have a treaty) and it's not enforceable by anyone, and the Warden had to help them before. Yes, he acted like an errand boy. But it also provided opportunity to be pro-active. To do something from your own volition.

Uh no KoP. Mages, dwavres and elves all bring up the treaty when you see them, they can not help you becauset hey are not fit to fight thus the Warden has to oslvet here problem so they have an army. After you solvet here problem, they go to war with you because of the treaty, this is made clear in the dialog.

[Prince_12]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
It was *supposed* to be political, but the execution was laughable. At best, it was a humorous political parody.
Origins, while not great by any means, had better political situations.

BW isn't good when it comes to politics.

[IanPolaris]

Mr.House wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

alex90c wrote...


Perse, you're talking out of your arse.

If you think Hawke doesn't do a whole load of killing, it's not even worth arguing with you.

Because in case you hadn't noticed, you're getting jumped by paratroopers every five seconds.

Now this is nice, solid hyperbole.

Actually that's a pretty good description of a stroll through Lowtown after dark.

-Polaris

The whole game does not take place at Lowtown after dark, nor are oyu there all the time, nor does it happen once you kill the gang leader. :innocent:

Actually it's a pretty good description of almost all of Kirkwall after Dark, and it does happen after you kill the Gang leader.....at least in the next Act.  It also occures frequently even in the same act becuase not all of the "gang" encounters have to show for you to get the "boss" and they aren't cancelled after you do.  (I find that's esp true in Hightown...I often get ambushed by gangs after killing the gang leader there).

-Polaris

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...


*Sigh*

O. = Definite proof implicating Orsino? Not really.

Implicating the Circle, as the letter is clearly from there.

But no, Hawke decides that investigating is too much work.

That's the motive YOU came up with. And we are talking in circles here, no pun intended.

[Mr.House]

IanPolaris wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

alex90c wrote...


Perse, you're talking out of your arse.

If you think Hawke doesn't do a whole load of killing, it's not even worth arguing with you.

Because in case you hadn't noticed, you're getting jumped by paratroopers every five seconds.

Now this is nice, solid hyperbole.

Actually that's a pretty good description of a stroll through Lowtown after dark.

-Polaris

The whole game does not take place at Lowtown after dark, nor are oyu there all the time, nor does it happen once you kill the gang leader. :innocent:

Actually it's a pretty good description of almost all of Kirkwall after Dark, and it does happen after you kill the Gang leader.....at least in the next Act.  It also occures frequently even in the same act becuase not all of the "gang" encounters have to show for you to get the "boss" and they aren't cancelled after you do.  (I find that's esp true in Hightown...I often get ambushed by gangs after killing the gang leader there).

-Polaris

Then I must be lucky, I get rid of the gangs boss right away and don't have to worry about para bandits for the rest of that act.

Modifié par Mr.House, 17 août 2011 - 06:02 .

[IanPolaris]

Mr.House wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
The warden gets a treaty and blunders his way to gather an army. Without said treaty the warden would be unable to get help from elves or dwavres.

Except no one cared about the treaty (2 armies don't even have a treaty) and it's not enforceable by anyone, and the Warden had to help them before. Yes, he acted like an errand boy. But it also provided opportunity to be pro-active. To do something from your own volition.

Uh no KoP. Mages, dwavres and elves all bring up the treaty when you see them, they can not help you becauset hey are not fit to fight thus the Warden has to oslvet here problem so they have an army. After you solvet here problem, they go to war with you because of the treaty, this is made clear in the dialog.

Not always.  What you say is true of the Dwarves always (either Harrowmount or Bhelen).  That's not true of the Templars, Werewolves, or for that matter Arl Eamon's forces.  They are all recuitable but your treaty doesn't cover them.

-Polaris

[Xilizhra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I think the major reason why people are upset about this is that the plot of DA2 is failry political.

It was *supposed* to be political, but the execution was laughable. At best, it was a humorous political parody.
Origins, while not great by any means, had better political situations.

Possibly because you only need to deal with one political thing per town, whereas in DA2 you're stuck in one city.

I think the reason I prefer 2 in the end is that, while O has some better plot points, I preferred 2's companions. They were better integrated into the plot, they had lives of their own, and they interacted with each other more interestingly. Additionally, I got a vastly better sense of Hawke as a person than the Warden, who's basically a blank slate who says whatever happens to be convenient.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Realmzmaster wrote...

His only power in "changing the individual" is wadng in and killing goddamn individuals. You know ... groups of around 50 of them. Every two minutes. Non-stop.

Much like the warden.

Actually no. Dealing with the mother with the casteless child had no violence. Helping Bella had no violence. Kaytlin. Cammen and Ghena (brrr)...etc etc.

Small quests of little consequence that are about helping individuals. Without a drop of blood.

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
The warden gets a treaty and blunders his way to gather an army. Without said treaty the warden would be unable to get help from elves or dwavres.

Except no one cared about the treaty (2 armies don't even have a treaty) and it's not enforceable by anyone, and the Warden had to help them before. Yes, he acted like an errand boy. But it also provided opportunity to be pro-active. To do something from your own volition.

Uh no KoP. Mages, dwavres and elves all bring up the treaty when you see them, they can not help you becauset hey are not fit to fight thus the Warden has to oslvet here problem so they have an army. After you solvet here problem, they go to war with you because of the treaty, this is made clear in the dialog.

Not always.  What you say is true of the Dwarves always (either Harrowmount or Bhelen).  That's not true of the Templars, Werewolves, or for that matter Arl Eamon's forces.  They are all recuitable but your treaty doesn't cover them.

-Polaris

Except that without the treaties, the Knight Commander would toss you out and you'd never even get the opportunity to meet the werewolves.